is every Osu player different?

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Topic Starter
vantheman
"duh"
is the short answer

This post is a ramble about play styles which involves a bit of talk about mapping and scoring too, I put it here since it's mostly about playing

I'm two months in, can do a [hard], could get probably get an SS HRHD on a [hard] if I put enough plays into one, but haven't yet(you're not impressed but the point is I'm beyond the easy ones).
And I don't quite get why a person would want to damage their joints and their tablet/keyboard learning to play on insane, those maps don't even look like fun. DDR had the benefit of becoming fit when I was struggling to full combo the 9 feet songs on double, but this just seems goofy.
"difficulty" of a map in this game seems to be measured by hit density and how confusing the patterns are,
as if the only skills we value in ourselves are sight reading, memorization of things that are too tough to read(just an investment of time for any normal functioning brain, but it does have value), and pounding the tablet/mashing the button. (I'm tapping with the stylus pointer, not hovering and slapping the key with my left, maybe that's my problem)

HUMOR ME for a moment if you can be bothered to do so before I proceed and look at these two pieces of abstract art.
Number 25: http://imgur.com/fN1BRYZ and Number101: http://imgur.com/JFNsvm8
And notice the difference in the line quality and the rhythmic quality(spacing) in the pictures. I made a series over a few months, they're 76 drawings apart from each other, I felt motivated to train my motor skills back then.
What if "Hard" just meant long sliders and tiny circle size? It's still Osu! Standard mode but the parameters are so far from what any of the maps use - they all seem to stay inside the "big circles, very short sliders" general area, and when they get harder, it just becomes the same thing only faster/more dense. Why aren't there multiple "styles" or "categories" of maps within a mode? There's hardly anything unique to be found in Osu maps(I've only played about 300-400 of them at this point though). Another style I could think of would be, a long approach, but very difficult overall timing(why is the timing parameter linked to the spinner speed? they're unrelated traits). I found a lot of difficulty in DDR in having the patience to get marvelous ratings on a very slow song with scarce steps. Patience is a totally challenging thing - but patience is destroyed but rewarded with more points by playing a map on double time.
Which, on that subject, what's with these mods? "Destroy the music" playing it on double time for more points, and "juggle rabbits in the off hand" dealing with unrelated distractions like flash light for more points.

Trigger warning for this paragraph. I saw over in the "why we hate PP farmers" thread people throwing around wordage the likes of "real pros" and "hard working player". The way people take the game so seriously puts me in shock. In my mind, a "hard working" person is someone who works "12-14 hours a day" and a "real pro" is someone who makes $300 an hour. Now, I'm 28, and when I was 14 I may have said the same things in a conversation about whatever my past time was - the original Starcraft it might've been (and yes there are hard working real pros at that, even by my definition) - but isn't the scope of the game a little narrow for that? Yo-Yo Ma's cello playing is beautiful but we don't say "dude, you should totally play the crouching tiger theme on double time, we'd respect you so much more". He'd probably hate us if we said that. Creative passions over here, competitive gaming over there, no mixing the two, is it?
Edit: Responders have changed my mind about what I said here. I'm sorry for offending. (Happy I spoke my mind and was corrected, though)

I'm lead to think, I must be a very unusual person if the skills I enjoy building are so different. I'm told small circles are hated - I dread to think of how my maps will be received by the modding community once I put my hands to work on maps. At this point I'm not condemning Osu players or mappers and I'm not chiseling my opinions in stone or even writing them in ink, because my skill at the game - homogenous as the game may seem to me - has a long way to go, and since I stopped playing DDR years ago I've felt a significant void in my existence having no rhythm game to practice. So I'll be around, and I may or may not change my opinions as I play more, which means no one has to take this as a flame or a put down. I've brought it up because I want the help of others to better understand the "Whys" and "Why nots" involved.
Yuu-Chii
tl;dr
Knarf

Yuu-Chii wrote:

tl;dr
Edit: Actually did read all but had no comment at all.
Topic Starter
vantheman

kookookook wrote:

Yuu-Chii wrote:

tl;dr
Love you too.
Wishy
Not worth reading.

Of course, I didn't even attempt to read it. You are probably just bad at mad because of it.
XGeneral2000
This game is not art. It is also not real life or a career. It is a game. Comparing it to anything else is meaningless.

Speed and accuracy are part of this game, so it is only natural that people see a faster player as a better player. That's not to say that people think playing with small circles, low approach rate, or strange rhythm isn't hard. If you want maps like this, look at old maps from before 2010 (when the "unoriginal fast maps" started to become more popular).
enik
Not sure what you're talking about here, but you have to understand one thing: people play fast stuff (notice: it could seem fast just for you, but not for them) for the only reason - they find it fun. Also you're talking about things you don't understand because you're still bad at this game.
Keep in mind it's just a game, take it easy and have fun.
Zare

XGeneral2000 wrote:

This game is not art. It is also not real life or a career. It is a game. Comparing it to anything else is meaningless.
Oh I love you for this.
jesse1412
I shall skim op as it is indeed tl;dr and I feel bad because no one else is skimming.

People play insane maps because they ARE more fun, they don't just look it. You don't damage your joints if you play correctly.

You seem to think that difficulty is just reading but it's not. Difficulty is your physical ability to move the cursor and click fast enough all while keeping in time and making sure you read the map correctly.

Insane maps are pretty much all the same but actual insane maps (the ones that are actually crazy hard) are all very different and creative. Stop playing shitty anime ops and you will see.

DT is harder so gives more points, not much to say here? Patience is not a skill, it's a measure of how little else you have to do in your life at that point in time.

People don't like people with incorrect ranks because they don't deserve them. I'm sure you would be mad if someone came first in the Olympic 100 meters and they ran far slower than the other contestants (not possible but you get the point).

You seem to have gotten the wrong image. People don't take this game that seriously compared to other games as it's not competitive (no direct interaction between players), talking about an arguably broken ranking system doesn't make everyone super serious no lifers.

Just because your friend doesn't like certain maps doesn't mean everyone hates them. Lots of people love small notes and other rarely used little map features.
-KevinChan-
im a bit confused, or my english just sucks... but the overall question is "is every Osu player different?"
sure you explained yourself, every player has a different opionion about "skill" as also "a real pro"

vantheman wrote:

In my mind, a "hard working" person is someone who works "12-14 hours a day" and a "real pro" is someone who makes $300 an hour.
i don't like your second defination "a real pro" is admired for his dedication and his achievements

vantheman wrote:

I'm lead me to think, I must be a very unusual person if the skills I enjoy building are so different.
you're not that unusual, I'm for the most part CTB'ler and i appreciate "Spin Skill" more then "Difficulty Skill"
TouchFluffyTail
Person who plays stupid graveyarded ar9/10 jump filled death maps here. Challenging yourself to be accurate at speed is difficult and really fun. Also if you're physically damaging anything while playing then you're seriously doing something wrong, I play in absurdly long stretches and the only thing I've damaged is the lifespan of my keyboard switches.

If you don't like "insane" maps then I seriously just think you aren't experienced enough to break out of hards, or just have only tried boring/bad maps.

Also I'd love to see some new small circle maps, they can be pretty difficult to acc on at speed, but the last example of a small circle map I can think of was painfully slow and basically defeated the challenge of smaller circles.
uzzi

vantheman wrote:

I don't quite get why a person would want to damage their joints and their tablet/keyboard learning to play on insane, those maps don't even look like fun.
Considering your playcount, you clearly aren't ready for insanes if you think you'll damage your joints. To me, insanes are fun, because they are challenging, and usually follow the rhythm in a really good way compared to lower difficulties.
Also, like jesus1412 said, no one takes this game seriously (I think so too), the only time I would think anyone would take it seriously would be during a tournament of some kind.
Oh, and you mentioned mods, and why they even exist. In my opinion, mods make the map even more fun. Sure, the maps gets a lot harder, but whats the point of a challenge if its easy.

One last note, the 'O' in osu! is lower case.
CXu
Small circles are cool.

But well, to answer your question: yes, every osu! player is different. It's just that the majority seems to like fast-paced maps, which is why there are generally more fast-paced maps and/or DTable maps.

If you don't enjoy them, search for some other map to play, as this game has like, idk a ton of ranked maps.
Topic Starter
vantheman

CXu wrote:

Small circles are cool.

But well, to answer your question: yes, every osu! player is different. It's just that the majority seems to like fast-paced maps, which is why there are generally more fast-paced maps and/or DTable maps.

If you don't enjoy them, search for some other map to play, as this game has like, idk a ton of ranked maps.
I have that map. And I like it too. Thanks for being cool CXu, you inspire me.
Aqo

jesus1412 wrote:

I shall skim op as it is indeed tl;dr and I feel bad because no one else is skimming.

People play insane maps because they ARE more fun, they don't just look it. You don't damage your joints if you play correctly.

You seem to think that difficulty is just reading but it's not. Difficulty is your physical ability to move the cursor and click fast enough all while keeping in time and making sure you read the map correctly.

Insane maps are pretty much all the same but actual insane maps (the ones that are actually crazy hard) are all very different and creative. Stop playing shitty anime ops and you will see.

DT is harder so gives more points, not much to say here? Patience is not a skill, it's a measure of how little else you have to do in your life at that point in time.

People don't like people with incorrect ranks because they don't deserve them. I'm sure you would be mad if someone came first in the Olympic 100 meters and they ran far slower than the other contestants (not possible but you get the point).

You seem to have gotten the wrong image. People don't take this game that seriously compared to other games as it's not competitive (no direct interaction between players), talking about an arguably broken ranking system doesn't make everyone super serious no lifers.

Just because your friend doesn't like certain maps doesn't mean everyone hates them. Lots of people love small notes and other rarely used little map features.
10/10 post qft
Topic Starter
vantheman

XGeneral2000 wrote:

This game is not art.
Yeah, I thought so.
Okay! Confirmation. Thanks.

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Comparing it to anything else is meaningless.
I think there's value in comparing. Guitar players hate Guitar Hero players, but some Guitar Hero players do use the game as a starting point to learning to play guitar, since there's similar skills involved. Rhythm games aren't musical instruments but you need rhythm to play a musical instrument, square and rhombuses, etc. While osu! standard isn't meant to mimic drawing or calligraphy(the typical map is closer to kanji writing if either of them), skills are pleasure, and the game could be working on different skillsets in addition to the ones it works on.
It does, there's more kinds of maps, people have said so far.
I don't have anything against the typical map. And the typical ones aren't all maps. But nobody's tagging the beatmaps with things related to the map itself like "small circles" or "long sliders". So do you think I should go make a feature request for mapping styles to be identified, named, and then a way of searching for them, for the sake of promoting variety?

Wishy wrote:

Not worth reading.

Of course, I didn't even attempt to read it. You are probably just bad at mad because of it.
Yeah, that'd be the most likely scenario, wouldn't it? I can't blame anyone for thinking that.
I'm bad at it yes, but I'm only confused/curious, not angry about it. Forgive me for writing a first impression.

jesus1412 wrote:

You seem to have gotten the wrong image. People don't take this game that seriously compared to other games as it's not competitive (no direct interaction between players), talking about an arguably broken ranking system doesn't make everyone super serious no lifers.
I did get the wrong image. That's a relief. I'm truly sorry that I wrote something insulting.

jesus1412 wrote:

Patience is not a skill, it's a measure of how little else you have to do in your life at that point in time.
What? It'd be a change of subject but do you care to debate that? I don't agree.
Wishy
I was just agroing for the sake of it no offense intended.

This game is a joke (from a competitive pov, it's completely broken), it's not serious, few people really care a lot about it, it's just extremely fun to play for some of us and that's why we keep playing even after lots of years.

It's not that super insanes are fun for everyone. Some players have fun while SS'ing random maps that they find easy to do so, some other players have fun trying to clear very hard maps. Thing is there are players who actually have fun by challenging themselves, the only possible outcome from that is that they will be the best players, because you only really improve when you try to break your limits. Obviously, when you get good easy maps are not fun anymore because you might aswell play them w/o audio, every mod available while having a serious discussion on some voice chat and still get a full combo.

What jesus means is that patience on this game is pretty much "I have nothing else to do so I might aswell retry this map for 2 hours until I FC". You will notice how the most " patient" players are actually young/late teens with a lot of free time (for any reason you can think of) who have nothing better to do than "be patient". Not saying it's bad or anything, they have fun by doing so, but truth is when you have things to do (either that or you prefer to invest your time on something else) your time starts having a different value, which in the end means you won't spend hours retrying a few maps because you might aswell be doing something else.
Yuu-Chii

Wishy wrote:

when you have things to do (either that or you prefer to invest your time on something else) your time starts having a different value, which in the end means you won't spend hours retrying a few maps because you might aswell be doing something else.
Like when you are working....
And have no freaking time to farm pp which is not fun at all by any means for me
winber1
about maps in general on osu!, there is more diversity than you think, and mainly this only becomes noticeable at the insane level difficulties. I mean, most people say that anime OP maps are all generally the same, and most of them do play the same way, but they are all quite different and certain mappers will emphasize certain notes rather than other ones. And mapping insanes (and playing them for that matter) is not being able to read and memorize hard to read patterns. There are rules and guidelines to mapping that must be met. Having a good understanding of how to read notes will be better understood as you play more, and despite the outright random spacing insane maps often use, they are very easily and clearly readable to anyone with a decent amount of skill. Completely unreadable patterns are not even rank able these days, even though they might seem unreadable to you now.

I'm probably re-iterating what people are saying in this thread. But either way, point is that you probably haven't been in the community enough or played the game enough to definitively say something about the game yet.

also i'm not really understanding what you hate about the mods. You seem to hate the mods because they are just bad, but would you care to come up with some other type of mod that doesn't mess up osu! gameplay?

You have boost mods and that twister mod in DDR, and some reverse mods and such, but is that even possible to implement into osu!? Honestly, there could be a few other possible mods, but these few mods that are in the game work very well within the game mechanics although some people don't like them.

If you have problems with the game, or you see no future in you playing this game, then just quit. As many people said, you play games for fun. What you value in the game is up to you to decide, as there are many things which you can actually do here (mapping, modding, playing (4 different modes), or just chilling with the community).
Topic Starter
vantheman
Edited the OP with an apology for the misjudgement that people take the game seriously.

Wishy wrote:

I was just agroing for the sake of it no offense intended.

This game is a joke (from a competitive pov, it's completely broken), it's not serious, few people really care a lot about it, it's just extremely fun to play for some of us and that's why we keep playing even after lots of years.

It's not that super insanes are fun for everyone. Some players have fun while SS'ing random maps that they find easy to do so, some other players have fun trying to clear very hard maps. Thing is there are players who actually have fun by challenging themselves, the only possible outcome from that is that they will be the best players, because you only really improve when you try to break your limits. Obviously, when you get good easy maps are not fun anymore because you might aswell play them w/o audio, every mod available while having a serious discussion on some voice chat and still get a full combo.
Well thanks for that, it's a good explanation.

The way I like to play right now would probably lump me in with any pp farmer(play the most challenging map I can get an S on until I do so and then move on), and I'm happy to have read that PP are soon to be changed(to something much better it looks like), so that I won't feel so stigmatized. Even though people shouldn't care what other people think, my profile makes me really self conscious since everyone can see how I play and I do want to be part of the mapping community.

winber1 wrote:

Having a good understanding of how to read notes will be better understood as you play more, and despite the outright random spacing insane maps often use, they are very easily and clearly readable to anyone with a decent amount of skill. Completely unreadable patterns are not even rank able these days, even though they might seem unreadable to you now.
Okay, I'll look forward to that.

winber1 wrote:

also i'm not really understanding what you hate about the mods. You seem to hate the mods because they are just bad, but would you care to come up with some other type of mod that doesn't mess up osu! gameplay?
I could brainstorm some out. "Really hard rock", there's one. Or how about one that reduces score of a hit by the percentage of distance from the center of the target/slider tick? Or more like the game, it could work in levels just giving you 100/50 when you're beyond treshholds, like an archery target. Placement accuracy is a measurable dimension that's there, but only measured in binary.

What do I hate about FL and DT? Flashlight I hate because it has pretty much nothing to do with anything, just strobes in your face while playing, it's like playing while juggling rabbits in the offhand, but it gets people to a place of recognition on the scoreboard/ranking. Though as other people have said, the competitive aspect of the game is a joke, **** the scoreboard
What I have against double time is a little more complicated - see, I only want to play on songs that I like - but they're no longer the song I like if they're sped up. So the scoreboard is only accessible to people who are willing to ruin the music. You have to practice it over and over with ruined music to get the DT SS - when instead of giving points for that mod and making it so people who like the music to much to ruin it will never get to the top of it even with 1000 plays on it, people could just be playing the harder maps for more challenge/pp. The scoreboard doesn't matter, the mods are just options for fun. Oh. Let's redirect my insulting paragraph from the OP at me then, since I'm caring about it(sorry again for that), I guess I'm the one that's too serious. I don't hate the mods themselves or people that play with them, just the way it works out in the end with them.
At first I was afraid to play hard maps even on no fail and was taking maps to the editor to do unranked test plays to learn them, because "I don't want the accuracy on my profile to drop".

I mean, yeah, I was reading that "why we hate pp thread" in depth because, a crap ranking system is a pretty important flaw, imo. For the record I also think "50/100/300" is a little weak. There should be more shades of gray, such that nobody would have "100%" but plenty would have several significant digits beyond 99%. That'd be ideal but it becomes a PC issue if it's too fine tuned right? 0/50/100/300 is only two binary digits so...ah I don't know jack about coding, let's not discuss this.

winber1 wrote:

What you value in the game is up to you to decide, as there are many things which you can actually do here (mapping, modding, playing (4 different modes), or just chilling with the community).
That answers the topic question then, yes we are all different. I'm glad to hear it - I was suspecting thick elitism rather than acceptance in the culture here. Or, rather, there probably are elitists, but we don't all have to care.
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