rust, if I wanted to dispose of you, I'd be voting for you...
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Big Mafia 1! (Ended and Old)
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Topic Starter
I've made a minor change to a few people's roles. I sent PMs to those who have been affected.
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Mafia are not allowed to discuss until nightime.
*was busy moving furniture and shit even though it's a holiday*
Aaaaand anything I was going to say has already been said. WIFOM, Jester, cherry cheesecake, etc.
I'll check back later~
Aaaaand anything I was going to say has already been said. WIFOM, Jester, cherry cheesecake, etc.
I'll check back later~
Roles aren't specified anywhere...Nice try though.adam2046 wrote:
Mafia are not allowed to discuss until nightime.
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Wojjan seems to be reffering to the town as "we"
"I think the town won't buy your show and if the Mafia doesn't get you, we WILL."
he's talking in the future tense and predicting what will happen: The town wont believe you so if the mafia don't kill you "we" (being the town) will.
It's really quite clear.
He didn't say the town wouldn't lynch.
I'm not going to talk about your accusation because we all know where that'll lead us (Mafia 2 "but you said it" "k I'm it then" "k you're mafia" "alright then I'm not" "but you said-" "ALRIGHT I AM" "no you're not, yes you are" "SHUT THE FUCK UP!")
Hint: I'm not
I really don't think IMO that anyone would claim to be mafia like that even as a joke unless they're an idiot ^_^
So for me those are the only 2 immediate (find me some others k?) possibilities.
I do find Wojjan quite suspicious (reasons listed by absolutely everyone too boring to make people read them again)
Unvote
Back to voting Rust
"I think the town won't buy your show and if the Mafia doesn't get you, we WILL."
he's talking in the future tense and predicting what will happen: The town wont believe you so if the mafia don't kill you "we" (being the town) will.
It's really quite clear.
He didn't say the town wouldn't lynch.
I'm not going to talk about your accusation because we all know where that'll lead us (Mafia 2 "but you said it" "k I'm it then" "k you're mafia" "alright then I'm not" "but you said-" "ALRIGHT I AM" "no you're not, yes you are" "SHUT THE FUCK UP!")
Hint: I'm not
I really don't think IMO that anyone would claim to be mafia like that even as a joke unless they're an idiot ^_^
So for me those are the only 2 immediate (find me some others k?) possibilities.
I do find Wojjan quite suspicious (reasons listed by absolutely everyone too boring to make people read them again)
Unvote
Back to voting Rust
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The first quote is WIFOM, while the second is condemning WIFOM.Lucidity wrote:
Where ? :<Echo wrote:
Lucidity wrote:
Have you considered that if I actually were the Jester that I wouldn't make it that obvious? Roleclaim mafia to get voted and then vote for myself?I sense inconsistency.Lucidity wrote:
Using WIFOM as a basis for voting is silly. There's absolutely no justification for using that, except paranoia. Or maybe trying to mislead others.
"Have you considered that if I actually were the Jester that I wouldn't make it that obvious?"
Yes. But then you'd have know that, so that's why you did it. But you counted on us thinking that which means you know we won't think you're the Jester. But you would have counter-countered us so you *are* the Jester etc. etc.
WIFOM is bad for townies because all it does is lead you to an endless loop of thoughts which ultimately gets resolved by a *guess* at what you think the other person is more likely to do. That undermines the point of the game. It derails the thoughts of people and makes them focus on useless guesswork. WIFOM distracts people, and therefore scum can use it to misdirect townies. Townies should avoid WIFOM. There is no point in using it.
I completely agree with that. And yet all the votes against me are based on WIFOM?
At times like these Ockham's razor jumps to mind.
I guess you could call the first quote WIFOM. It is also condemning WIFOM though. I'm saying that I would not use such an obvious WIFOM strategy, since WIFOM isn't any basis to vote on. I wouldn't expect anyone in the game to vote based on WIFOM. There's also the rather large inconsistency of voting for myself before I got close to being lynched. A Jester would not do that.
Simplicity. "Joking around" is the simplest explanation for my actions, and from a neutral perspective has to be the most likely reason for them.
At times like these Ockham's razor jumps to mind.
I guess you could call the first quote WIFOM. It is also condemning WIFOM though. I'm saying that I would not use such an obvious WIFOM strategy, since WIFOM isn't any basis to vote on. I wouldn't expect anyone in the game to vote based on WIFOM. There's also the rather large inconsistency of voting for myself before I got close to being lynched. A Jester would not do that.
Simplicity. "Joking around" is the simplest explanation for my actions, and from a neutral perspective has to be the most likely reason for them.
My initial vote remains, after all these discussion.
I see no reason to change my vote.
I see no reason to change my vote.
I have no idea what just happened but I will keep my vote for lucidity. Who the heck cares if we let the jester win? Personally, I see no problem.
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Would you please stop saying WIFOM, I think the entire point of this post was to see how many times you could say WIFOM in one post.Lucidity wrote:
I completely agree with that. And yet all the votes against me are based on WIFOM?
At times like these Ockham's razor jumps to mind.
I guess you could call the first quote WIFOM. It is also condemning WIFOM though. I'm saying that I would not use such an obvious WIFOM strategy, since WIFOM isn't any basis to vote on. I wouldn't expect anyone in the game to vote based on WIFOM. There's also the rather large inconsistency of voting for myself before I got close to being lynched. A Jester would not do that.
Simplicity. "Joking around" is the simplest explanation for my actions, and from a neutral perspective has to be the most likely reason for them.
So anyway if you had read my posts in the other thread I told everyone that I found anyone who voted themselves suspicious on the grounds that humans should not vote themselves even as a joke.
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Why should townies not vote for themselves even as a joke? Other than getting the WIFOM fanatics all fired up, there's no logical "sinister plan" that accompanies such a vote, is there?adam2046 wrote:
So anyway if you had read my posts in the other thread I told everyone that I found anyone who voted themselves suspicious on the grounds that humans should not vote themselves even as a joke.
Also, WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM.
PS WIFOM.
PPS Role Claim: Cop. I investigated myself and found me not guilty. Joy ^_^
If you were a townie and voted for yourself, that would not be a pro-town action. You would be creating confusion, which hinders the mafia-finding process. As a pro-town member, you should be ultimately trying to secure a victory for the town, and voting for yourself does not help that in anyway.
While joke voting of course doesn't generally lead to assured things, voting for yourself assuredly leads to a situation undesirable for the town, assuming you are a townie. And why would you do that?!
*drinks the beer in front of him*
While joke voting of course doesn't generally lead to assured things, voting for yourself assuredly leads to a situation undesirable for the town, assuming you are a townie. And why would you do that?!
*drinks the beer in front of him*
That makes sense at any stage of the game except (the initial stages of) Day 1. There is effectively no way to make an informed decision so all the votes are either joke votes or random votes. My vote was cast before any real discussion had begun. It wasn't its intended effect, but it got discussion going and even (In my mind) provided some valuable information to the game. Possible collusion between adam and Wojjan and definite suspicious activity by Wojjan. This is surely a positive thing for the townies, showing that "Don't vote for yourself" isn't a rule cast in stone never to be challenged. It shouldn't always lead to confusion, unless some players insist that it does.
Another thing to consider is that voting for yourself doesn't change anything in the game. Unless you're close to the deadline and stand a real chance of being lynched because of majority vote, your self-vote should have no impact at all. No character other than the Jester benefits from being lynched. The Jester wouldn't vote for himself at any other stage than L-1 though. In the end voting for yourself is an odd thing to do, but ultimately has no effect on the game. Of course there are various scenarios later on in the game which might invalidate that statement, but certainly on Day 1 it is true. Or is my logic completely wrong?
Is it really so hard to believe that my role claim was a joke? :p Yeah, I won't be doing it in any future games and I'm learning as I go, but I still can't see why it's such a scummy action. Even after all these pages.
Mod: Could we have a vote count please?
Another thing to consider is that voting for yourself doesn't change anything in the game. Unless you're close to the deadline and stand a real chance of being lynched because of majority vote, your self-vote should have no impact at all. No character other than the Jester benefits from being lynched. The Jester wouldn't vote for himself at any other stage than L-1 though. In the end voting for yourself is an odd thing to do, but ultimately has no effect on the game. Of course there are various scenarios later on in the game which might invalidate that statement, but certainly on Day 1 it is true. Or is my logic completely wrong?
Is it really so hard to believe that my role claim was a joke? :p Yeah, I won't be doing it in any future games and I'm learning as I go, but I still can't see why it's such a scummy action. Even after all these pages.
Mod: Could we have a vote count please?
Wojjan: Mafia wouldn't be stupid enough to roleclaim themselves. I believe that you're just trying to push as much suspicion onto Lucidity as you can to remove people's suspicion of you.
Unvote.
Vote: Wojjan
Unvote.
Vote: Wojjan
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Tbh WIFOM only exists in the remote regions of a paranoid mind. 
>_> Regardless, there's no point at all to claim mafia other than to joke around or be stupid. Or unless one really is mafia and just doesn't want to play but then fuck them for signing up in the first place XPEcho wrote:
Lucidity wrote:
The Jester wouldn't vote for himself at any other stage than L-1 though.What are these quotes called again? Starts with W, ends with M, etc., etc.Derekku Chan wrote:
Mafia wouldn't be stupid enough to roleclaim themselves.
Wait, are you guys still thinking there's a jester this game? With LS's clarified rules I seriously doubt it..'
also still voting Wojjan
also still voting Wojjan
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Topic Starter
Votecount:
Wojjan - 4 (strager, 0_o, Echo, Derekku)
Lucidity - 3 (JInxyjem, DxS, Ivalset)
rust45 - 3 (thepianist, Wojjan, adam2046)
adam2046 - 2 (Lucidity, rust45)
Echo - 1 (Metruzero)
strager - 1 (Bagelbob)
thepianist - 1 (Pasonia)
Edit: I think some of my votecount vanished... I'm rechecking it now.
Edit2: Yeah, somehow adam dissapeared off the face of the earth. Fix'd.
Edit3: Corrected order.
Wojjan - 4 (strager, 0_o, Echo, Derekku)
Lucidity - 3 (JInxyjem, DxS, Ivalset)
rust45 - 3 (thepianist, Wojjan, adam2046)
adam2046 - 2 (Lucidity, rust45)
Echo - 1 (Metruzero)
strager - 1 (Bagelbob)
thepianist - 1 (Pasonia)
Edit: I think some of my votecount vanished... I'm rechecking it now.
Edit2: Yeah, somehow adam dissapeared off the face of the earth. Fix'd.
Edit3: Corrected order.
Wojjan - 4 (strager, 0_o, Echo, Derekku)
Lucidity - 3 (JInxyjem, DxS, Ivalset)
rust45 - 3 (thepianist, Wojjan, adam2046)
adam2046 - 2 (Lucidity, rust45)
Echo - 1 (Metruzero)
strager - 1 (Bagelbob)
thepianist - 1 (Pasonia)
I'm pretty sure this is right.
Remember it's 9 to lynch
EDIT: GAH NINJA'D
EDIT2: wait, did you forget about this LS?
adam2046 - 2 (Lucidity, rust45)
Lucidity - 3 (JInxyjem, DxS, Ivalset)
rust45 - 3 (thepianist, Wojjan, adam2046)
adam2046 - 2 (Lucidity, rust45)
Echo - 1 (Metruzero)
strager - 1 (Bagelbob)
thepianist - 1 (Pasonia)
I'm pretty sure this is right.
Remember it's 9 to lynch
EDIT: GAH NINJA'D
EDIT2: wait, did you forget about this LS?
adam2046 - 2 (Lucidity, rust45)
Subi just doesn't want me to die ^_^
OK, today I've made it as far as Pasonia's post on Page 9 and now you're making my head hurt. There's a few things I want to say now, before I attempt to go on.
@Lucidity
Your posts are full of WIFOM, thus making things more confusing and wasting valuable time.
You claim that WIFOM is not a good reason to vote for someone.
Mafia commonly use WIFOM as a delaying tactic in order to stifle discussion.
You accuse without evidence. Quote, or at least link to the posts where you accuse people of committing <Action>.
@Wojjan
Can you explain why you thought you were at L-1?
I've got my eye on you.
@Echo
I know you're a smart person. However, in this post you don't show signs of thinking clearly.
"I think the town won't buy your show" (Wojjan thinks that the town won't believe that Lucidity is town-aligned)
and
"if the Mafia doesn't get you, we WILL." (we, in this clause, is everyone who is not part of Mafia)
In addition, I feel that
@Everyone
Claiming Mafia is WIFOM.
Claiming Mafia draws attention to yourself.
Townies should not lie, lying is something that only Mafia need to do, Pasonia.
FOS Wojjan
FOS Echo
FOS strager
Unvote: Strager
Vote: Lucidity
@Lucidity
Your posts are full of WIFOM, thus making things more confusing and wasting valuable time.
You claim that WIFOM is not a good reason to vote for someone.
Mafia commonly use WIFOM as a delaying tactic in order to stifle discussion.
You accuse without evidence. Quote, or at least link to the posts where you accuse people of committing <Action>.
@Wojjan
Can you explain why you thought you were at L-1?
I've got my eye on you.
@Echo
I know you're a smart person. However, in this post you don't show signs of thinking clearly.
This compound sentence can easily be broken down into two partsWojjan wrote:
I think the town won't buy your show and if the Mafia doesn't get you, we WILL.
"I think the town won't buy your show" (Wojjan thinks that the town won't believe that Lucidity is town-aligned)
and
"if the Mafia doesn't get you, we WILL." (we, in this clause, is everyone who is not part of Mafia)
In addition, I feel that
does more to spur on discussion than suppress it. Wojjan here is putting the pressure on Lucidity. This vote makes end-of-day-lynching Lucidity possible, forcing Lucidity to post more.Wojjan wrote:
Let's score a majority then, if he'll get lynched anyway. No point in waiting for 2 more days for the deadline to kick in. Vote Lucidity to move things along
@Everyone
Claiming Mafia is WIFOM.
Claiming Mafia draws attention to yourself.
Townies should not lie, lying is something that only Mafia need to do, Pasonia.
FOS Wojjan
FOS Echo
FOS strager
Unvote: Strager
Vote: Lucidity
I've quoted every post I've referenced...BagelBob wrote:
@Lucidity:
You accuse without evidence. Quote, or at least link to the posts where you accuse people of committing <Action>.
You seem to have a very formulaic approach to the game. Are there really absolute "laws" in this game?
Unvote
Vote: Wojjan.
Still got mah eye on you adam ;p
I think he was confused because he's used to the smaller mafia games, where it's 5 to lynch on day 1. I guess he had 4 votes on him when he said that.BagelBob wrote:
@Wojjan
Can you explain why you thought you were at L-1?
Well you should try to understand the human mind when playing these.
People who are town are fighting to kill the mafia and will do everyting in their power to weed them out and kill them.
People who are mafia work to confuse the town in order to shroud their own actions to kill the town.
So when operating as either side they should follow general guidelines, such as, being clear in what you say if you are human, if a person is being confusing all game you should suspect them, as they are not helping the human cause that way.
aaaaand I don't feel like writing anymore so whatever.
People who are town are fighting to kill the mafia and will do everyting in their power to weed them out and kill them.
People who are mafia work to confuse the town in order to shroud their own actions to kill the town.
So when operating as either side they should follow general guidelines, such as, being clear in what you say if you are human, if a person is being confusing all game you should suspect them, as they are not helping the human cause that way.
aaaaand I don't feel like writing anymore so whatever.
I missed like six pages and had to read them all in one go. Yikes.
Some key things I wish to add:
adam's decision to vote for Lucidity D2 if he isn't NK'd N1 is this:
Mafia want to be the only ones who win. They don't want a Jester to win. Also, if Lucidity turns up a Townie, that's still good news for them.
If Lucidity is a Mafia, he wouldn't be NK'd except in some strange universe. Thus, he would be alive for D2, thus resulting in a lynch by this reasoning.
Of course, there's some WIFOM involved (sorry). Mafia could NOT NK Lucidity N1 even if he wasn't a Mafia, and kill someone else. In that case by adam's reasoning Lucidity would be lynched D2. It's a win-win for the Mafia there.
So, I've got my eye on you, adam, though I do see the initial innocence in this logic.
To clarify what LS meant, if a Jester wins, that doesn't mean everyone else loses. The only win which causes a loss is a Townie or Mafia win, in which case the other side loses.
You got seriously troll'd.
Kinda.
Whatever.
By convincing arguments of others I hold my vote against Wojjan.
Some key things I wish to add:
adam's decision to vote for Lucidity D2 if he isn't NK'd N1 is this:
Mafia want to be the only ones who win. They don't want a Jester to win. Also, if Lucidity turns up a Townie, that's still good news for them.
If Lucidity is a Mafia, he wouldn't be NK'd except in some strange universe. Thus, he would be alive for D2, thus resulting in a lynch by this reasoning.
Of course, there's some WIFOM involved (sorry). Mafia could NOT NK Lucidity N1 even if he wasn't a Mafia, and kill someone else. In that case by adam's reasoning Lucidity would be lynched D2. It's a win-win for the Mafia there.
So, I've got my eye on you, adam, though I do see the initial innocence in this logic.
To clarify what LS meant, if a Jester wins, that doesn't mean everyone else loses. The only win which causes a loss is a Townie or Mafia win, in which case the other side loses.
For you, Echo...Echo wrote:
strager please explain your "serious vote" for those less gifted among us
You got seriously troll'd.
Kinda.
Whatever.
By convincing arguments of others I hold my vote against Wojjan.
I consider a shared win a loss no matter what.
Cause I'm a dick, ya' know?
Cause I'm a dick, ya' know?
Why can't we all just get along~
in b4 someone suggest a mafia/town win
in b4 someone suggest a mafia/town win
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And Farewell Wojjan.
What?DeathxShinigami wrote:
And Farewell Wojjan.
I lol'd.Lucidity wrote:
I've quoted every post I've referenced...BagelBob wrote:
@Lucidity:
You accuse without evidence. Quote, or at least link to the posts where you accuse people of committing <Action>.
You seem to have a very formulaic approach to the game. Are there really absolute "laws" in this game?
Unvote
Vote: Wojjan.
Still got mah eye on you adam ;p
You knew wojjan was 1 vote higher than you so when Bagel evened out the votes, you decided to up wojjan a notch by voting for him. Mafia, no?