Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Mapping Discussion
  4. Ranking Criteria
  5. Finalized/Denied Amendments

[Guideline] Mapset accountability

posted
Total Posts
122
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
Shiro
Alright, so current GUIDELINES say:
  1. The number of maps by any mapper should not exceed the number of maps by the uploader: this means that if you have 2 diffs, no guest mapper can have more than 2 diffs; collaboration maps are exempt from this. Ask a BAT if you're unsure of who should upload the mapset.
  2. You should fully map at least one difficulty of a mapset if you are the person who is uploading it. For collaborated beatmap sets, the uploader must be a part of every difficulty. Also, no guest mapper should have more content in the mapset than the creator. It makes no sense to upload a map if you barely contributed to it.
Which doesn't make sense. What this says is that someone can upload a map for which they mapped nothing or close to nothing, and it has never been the intention of anyone. Also, current wording is ambiguous, which is why it was moved to guidelines when it should never have left rules. I would like to reword this into a simple rule:

No guest mapper is allowed to have more difficulties in the mapset than the creator, all modes together. For collaboration mapsets, the uploader must take part in all collab difficulties. The person who should upload the map is the one who contributed most to it.
This still allows guest diff bundles (where each difficulty is mapped by a single mapper), and it allows collaborations with the second part, but it does not allow mapsets such as http://osu.ppy.sh/s/87630 where qoot has two difficulties and the uploader only one.

Things like video, mp3, storyboard, hitsounds and whatnot wouldn't count towards this rule.

Also, do you think we should force mappers to map the hardest difficulty in case of guest diff bundles ?

If there is any situation you people want to see allowed that isn't covered by my wording, please point it out, I'll do my best to fix the wording.
RLC
Elite Mapper
1,006 posts
Joined August 2011
RLC
This seems really logical. I agree (to be honest, I actually thought it had been this way all along, lol; it does make much more sense for something like this to be a Rule).
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
How do you measure "content"?
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin
So that wasn't already a rule?
Anyway - I fully agree with this rule, I hate seeing maps with more content from guests than creator itself, it's not that hard IMO to make Normal, and Insane.
Also - what about Hard / Normal GD's, and Easy from uploader? I think mapper who maps Insane contributes more (even in object placement - there is more objects in Insane, than in Easy) to the mapset, than the one who maps Easy only, and uploads mapset?
Mirage
627 posts
Joined May 2011
Mirage
Support
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
Shiro

Marcin wrote:

Also - what about Hard / Normal GD's, and Easy from uploader? I think mapper who maps Insane contributes more (even in object placement - there is more objects in Insane, than in Easy) to the mapset, than the one who maps Easy only, and uploads mapset?
As much as I hate to see that, I don't think this is something we can force as a rule. People map what they are confident with mapping; I don't think we can or should force them to do things they're not confident with.
I understand where you come form though. Let's see what other people think of that. I'll add that to the first post.
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

Shiro wrote:

Marcin wrote:

Also - what about Hard / Normal GD's, and Easy from uploader? I think mapper who maps Insane contributes more (even in object placement - there is more objects in Insane, than in Easy) to the mapset, than the one who maps Easy only, and uploads mapset?
As much as I hate to see that, I don't think this is something we can force as a rule. People map what they are confident with mapping; I don't think we can or should force them to do things they're not confident with.
I understand where you come form though. Let's see what other people think of that. I'll add that to the first post.
If it's not going anyhow explained, then the rule should be reworded, because currently the rule (as Full Tablet said) says: "No guest mapper is allowed to have more content" which following the logic - that the content is how many object has mapper placed, then the one who mapped Insane should be uploader.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
Shiro
Content currently refers to the number of difficulties. I'll reword.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Shiro wrote:

Also, do you think we should force mappers to map the hardest difficulty in case of guest diff bundles ?
Ehm, I don't really like this idea because there are several People who map insane diffs pretty well, and if you want a GD from them and they say yes, you have to do something even harder, and.. I don't like that. Maybe it's better if you say something like they have to map at least 1 insane diff, in case there is one - if there is a easy / normal / hard mapset, at least ONE hard diff has to be made of the mapsetowner
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

Irreversible wrote:

Shiro wrote:

Also, do you think we should force mappers to map the hardest difficulty in case of guest diff bundles ?
Ehm, I don't really like this idea because there are several People who map insane diffs pretty well, and if you want a GD from them and they say yes, you have to do something even harder, and.. I don't like that. Maybe it's better if you say something like they have to map at least 1 insane diff, in case there is one - if there is a easy / normal / hard mapset, at least ONE hard diff has to be made of the mapsetowner
But you know, mapper doesn't need to be so lazy, he can map for example Hard and Normal, and then having Insane from Guest would be in my opinion fine (because having Hard and Normal is rankable, so having Insane guest would just be a nice addition, rather than laziness of mapper).

If mapper uploading mapset, contributes to the mapset with only one difficulty mapped on his own, it cannot be any lower than Insane.
What do you think about this?
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg
Why we should limit mappers willing to create content in the way they want. Such rule don't affect playability or quality of map and seems ridiculous for me. :/
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin
It's simple - Mapper doing all diffs on his own is having a better mapset than someone having only Easy mapped by them, and all other diffs being guest. While it doesn't affect Gameplay and quality, it rather discourages mappers, where their full spread mapset is being on the same level as the mapset explained above.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
Shiro

Sieg wrote:

Why we should limit mappers willing to create content in the way they want. Such rule don't affect playability or quality of map and seems ridiculous for me. :/
It does reduce quality - a whole lot. People are just going to map one diff of their own mapsets and have other people do the rest, which makes the entire mapset horribly inconsistent.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Marcin wrote:

It's simple - Mapper doing all diffs on his own is having a better mapset than someone having only Easy mapped by them, and all other diffs being guest.
Can you give me some examples for this or this just your general thoughts?

Marcin wrote:

While it doesn't affect Gameplay and quality, it rather discourages mappers, where their full spread mapset is being on the same level as the mapset explained above.
Also you shouldn't be discouraged on others mapsets. This is not an contest. Only quality and playability matters and we have BAT filter for this.

Shiro wrote:

It does reduce quality - a whole lot. People are just going to map one diff of their own mapsets and have other people do the rest, which makes the entire mapset horribly inconsistent.
So this why we have a guideline for this. Not a rule. Because you know if host and guest mappers can team well why you limit this.
As for bad ones I wrote already, we have BAT and even now unranking rule.
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

Sieg wrote:

Marcin wrote:

It's simple - Mapper doing all diffs on his own is having a better mapset than someone having only Easy mapped by them, and all other diffs being guest.
Can you give me some examples for this or this just your general thoughts?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/79794 Here you are.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Marcin wrote:

Sieg wrote:

Can you give me some examples for this or this just your general thoughts?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/79794 Here you are.
Great hard, fine normal, suitable for beginners easy, 9.16 UR, 65 favs ~130k plays
What's wrong with this mapset?
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

Sieg wrote:

Marcin wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/79794 Here you are.
Great hard, fine normal, suitable for beginners easy, 9.16 UR, 65 favs ~130k plays
What's wrong with this mapset?
Wrong is who puts more effort - guy placing 60 objects, or guy placing 114 objects? That's the point I'm coming to - the one doing most effort in the mapset where one diff is only done on own by mapset owner, should be uploading mapset. I'm not talking about quality, but the effort put into creating this quality.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Marcin wrote:

Irreversible wrote:

Ehm, I don't really like this idea because there are several People who map insane diffs pretty well, and if you want a GD from them and they say yes, you have to do something even harder, and.. I don't like that. Maybe it's better if you say something like they have to map at least 1 insane diff, in case there is one - if there is a easy / normal / hard mapset, at least ONE hard diff has to be made of the mapsetowner
But you know, mapper doesn't need to be so lazy, he can map for example Hard and Normal, and then having Insane from Guest would be in my opinion fine (because having Hard and Normal is rankable, so having Insane guest would just be a nice addition, rather than laziness of mapper).
he could also map insane instead of hard, and the guest differ mapps a hard. where's the Problem? :s
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

Irreversible wrote:

he could also map insane instead of hard, and the guest differ mapps a hard. where's the Problem? :s
There is no problem, but that was just my opinion on this.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
I'm pretty sure the uploader has to contribute a lot to the mapset by looking for modders and the likes to get the map ranked, while the guest mappers essentially can sit and wait for mods on their maps. Some mappers even let the uploader change stuff in their GD's. Mapping the least in a mapset doesn't necessarily mean they contributed the least to that mapset.

Tbh, I don't see any real problem with how much the uploader contributes to the mapset. Sure, the individual difficulties might have various mapping styles, but that can both be good; variety, or bad; inconsistency, depending on how you want to look at it. And it's nost like 1 mapper can't hve inconsistency between their own difficulties as well, so in that case, properly labeling guest mappers does help any player to expect different mapping styles.

The main problem I have with a limit like this, is basically that you're probably not going to "cure" laziness anyway, so potentially great maps might never get ranked, because they don't have a proper spread.

Oh well.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Topic Starter
Shiro
If you have nothing other than "whats wrong bro" to add, please refrain from posting. This is not going anywhere.

What Marcin is saying is that someone who mapped an Insane put more effort into the map that someone who mapped lower difficulties, and therefore should be the one uploading the mapset.

The goal of this isn't to prevent laziness, but to give the right people credit for their work.
Marcin
osu! Alumni
4,944 posts
Joined March 2011
Marcin

CXu wrote:

I'm pretty sure the uploader has to contribute a lot to the mapset by looking for modders and the likes to get the map ranked, while the guest mappers essentially can sit and wait for mods on their maps. Some mappers even let the uploader change stuff in their GD's. Mapping the least in a mapset doesn't necessarily mean they contributed the least to that mapset.
So I can as well map 0 diffs, and upload mapset with only guest diffs, and just lurk for some mods, while they do nothing but just apply suggestions?
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Shiro wrote:

The goal of this isn't to prevent laziness, but to give the right people credit for their work.
the most People call their diffs like idk [username]'s Insane, or even just [username] so I think it's enough for that, what about that:



if there was another Topic called 'Ranked Guest diffs' ? I mean like this they would get credited more, if I understood the Problem right o.o
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu

Shiro wrote:

The goal of this isn't to prevent laziness, but to give the right people credit for their work.
Any guest mapper is aware that their difficulty is, yes, a guest difficulty. If they don't want other people to get that credit, they can upload their own mapset.

Well, if anything, I think being able to change the "mapper" field for guest difficulties would solve that, but then again this isn't a feature request so hurr.

Marcin wrote:

CXu wrote:

I'm pretty sure the uploader has to contribute a lot to the mapset by looking for modders and the likes to get the map ranked, while the guest mappers essentially can sit and wait for mods on their maps. Some mappers even let the uploader change stuff in their GD's. Mapping the least in a mapset doesn't necessarily mean they contributed the least to that mapset.
So I can as well map 0 diffs, and upload mapset with only guest diffs, and just lurk for some mods, while they do nothing but just apply suggestions?
Ehh not really. Actually, I think my problem is how much emphasis is put into having more notes mapped/more maps mapped etc. If contribution here includes storyboard, hitsounds, mods and whatnot, and just that the overall work put into it by the uploader is more than the Guest mappers, I'm fine.

Then again, I wouldn't really complain if that scenario happened either; most likely the person uploading has consent from the diff creator t upload it, and thus there is no reason to shoot it down. If the creator can't be asked to get mods and get it ranked, but his/her friend wants to do it, then I seriously don't see why not.
Last edited by CXu , edited 1 time in total.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 122