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[GUIDE] How to improve in osu!mania

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Bobbias

Drace wrote:

I like to refer to such situations to a "click". It's more common in the early stages since you haven't yet explored many patterns. Although it may not seem like it, you are sometimes closer than you think to be able to read a certain pattern. It just takes that missing something, then "click" the pattern makes sense. It's not at all uncommon, I can think of a couple patterns in which I myself learned this way.
Yeah, I usually call those moments "clicking" as well, actually. Haven't been able to think of a better word lol. And yeah they tend to happen more often earlier on, but they can still happen at any time.

Agka wrote:

All there is to this game is attitude: if you want to be good at the game, play to get good at it. That means getting out of your comfort zone and trying new things. If you are a bad player and will just spend the whole day complaining about how everything is out of your reach, find a new hobby- even more so when there's people actually improving. If you're not, you're the only one to blame.
I wouldn't quite say that's summing up what Drace posted, but it's still true. It's entirely possible to only ever play music games on a casual level, but you cant expect to get good without legitimate effort.

Personally, my mindset is that I want to improve, not to be highly ranked, not to get top 50 scores so people can be amazed by my "l33t skillz", but because I find that I have more fun playing harder things. The more challenging a map is, the better I feel when I finally pass it. Ranks are nice in that they make you feel like you're competing with other people, but as far as I'm concerned the only person I'm truly competing with is myself.
Jin Xero
Where was this guide when i first started >.<! Solid tips mate, really enjoyed it and very thoughtful to read. It's been only a month only a month since i started mania, but i can say start getting a feel to the harder songs, try em(especially un-ranked ones!)
Taadashi
Thank you Drace for the information written here, it was indeed a good read.

Also, thanks to Bobbias for the o2jam converts. :)
Topic Starter
Drace
First off; thanks for the great feedback! It's really great :D

Now I got the general tips on progression pretty much done. But if anyone thinks anything should be added, corrected or clarified; please tell me. I want this guide to be as complete and as helpful as it can possibly be. And it's not really something one can expect to accomplish on his own :p

I also got some noteworthy advances in the new pattern repository, tips directed to specific patterns classified by skill level. The beginner patterns shows what I'm aiming for in this section; a name, an example, a brief explanation, and a couple tips for players currently trying to get comfortable with that specific pattern.

But I gotta admit, finding specific tips for every pattern out there on my own has proven to be quite difficult. But I think it'd be great to have such a thing completed properly. Players having trouble with something in particular will hopefully be able to find a wide range of tips from players all over! Hopefully providing a positive result. If only I had such a thing in the past xD So I'll gladly take tips or personal experiences from anyone into consideration, so don't be shy to help out ^^

Also a big thanks to the ones who've helped so far, I decided to keep track of em all so I added a little 'special thanks' box at the bottom of the first post.
xxbidiao
Great guide!

I would like to also point something interesting on advanced / expert level:

Practice deep into one ability when necessary.
While there are a lot of patterns existing in osu!mania with many things to be learned, it's really hard to be a god who is good at everything. Many "ET" (Super expert players) can just play a few styles like god; when they meet styles they are not good at they would just perform like advanced players. I would list a few abilities "ET" hold to perform unbelievable scores. To be honest, each of them needs years of practicing before you get great improvement.
These ability includes:
(1) Single-key rushing

Jackhammers are hard for both beginners and experts. When jackhammers become quick enough to an insane level, it would transform into "one-second killing" period. A typical example is Identity II in O2Jam, where in a special period of song (~3 seconds) you would have to press like 20 times per second on each key to FC it. Since no one can really have such high hand speed, to miss little in order not to let the HP gauge empty becomes the playing target for these songs. If you practice a lot on this ability, you would finally get used to slow (~5 hits per second) jackhammers and are able to pass a few songs with long period of 20 key per second (KPS).

(2) Sightreading
SV changes are hard, extremely when they come in long period. When you face a 20~30 second of x0.3 SV, it's really hard to catch up the note because of too high density on the board. Try to play a random song with mania speed 1, and you would face the challenge.
If you practice a lot on the ability, finally you would find it easy to read any map, especially on these parts that are full of notes. As a side effect, you would have slightly better judgment. (Some O2Jam ET told me to practice super low speed; They told be you would raise your judgment level quickly but I finally give up on that crazy practice :o)

(3) Multi-key rushing

Unlike single key burst, double or triple streams may last for minutes or just the whole song (mostly in BMS songs where they don't use LNs). To have a stable output when smashing your keyboard for minutes, having each note accurately hit and no note wrongly pressed is a really tough task; This need high level of endurance. If you practice a lot on the ability, you would be able to play, you would not only pass these maps which is full of heavily placed notes, finally you would be able to FC them. (It is really hard for players not having a mistake each 100~200 notes)

(4) Accuracy
Since MAX need really strict timing, getting a song perfect is really hard. when you see your SS score only 990k and are overtaken by 991k S score, won't you be sad? It's a good target to get 999k on each song despite of its difficulty, but is it possible...? (999k is nearly 98% EX Score comparing to LR2, where a lot of ETs have proved difficulties on this task and some of them finally made it on nearly every song.) If you practice a lot on the ability, finally you would found your S overtaken others' SS :)

(5) Long notes (LN)

Many people love immerse LNs; many people hate it, but the fact is many ET are able to play immerse maps that is already insane difficulty on their un-immerse version. To practice in this style means you would enter a fresh new world, when you find nearly every experience on former play unusable. For many players the typical scene is after years of practice, when they meet the easiest immerse LN maps which un-immerse version is just beginner level they would easily fail. If you can struggle on this and practice a lot on this ability, you would find anything LN easy. Not only on immerse maps, you would found you having no difficulties playing maps with LNs combining with other hard patterns. (Actually immerse LNs are initially designed as a finger practice to normal "hard LN maps".)

As seen in my experience, any one of above abilites needs years of practice to conquer, which make it really hard to get everything good. It's wise to mainly practice one or two abilities when not giving up other abilities, but keep in mind that you would struggle to make progress on this level. Don't worry, any one of these abilities would grant you an honor place on the ranking :D
Topic Starter
Drace
Wow that's some great stuff! Exactly what I was looking for, a big thanks! I added stuff in the guide right away xD
Tear
As a complete beginner, there's one thing this guide didn't explain to me - what key bindings to use, what styles are there (symmetrical/ltr) and what's their advantages. I picked sdf space jkl because that's what most people seem to be using. Also, the link to Entozer's map list should be a little bigger, I didn't notice that when reading the first time x_x
Besides that it's nice :D Great job, thank you
Agka

Tear wrote:

As a complete beginner, there's one thing this guide didn't explain to me - what key bindings to use, what styles are there (symmetrical/ltr) and what's their advantages. I picked sdf space jkl because that's what most people seem to be using. Also, the link to Entozer's map list should be a little bigger, I didn't notice that when reading the first time x_x
Besides that it's nice :D Great job, thank you
Can I humbly ask why people keep asking what key bindings to use?
PyaKura

Tear wrote:

As a complete beginner, there's one thing this guide didn't explain to me - what key bindings to use, what styles are there (symmetrical/ltr) and what's their advantages. I picked sdf space jkl because that's what most people seem to be using. Also, the link to Entozer's map list should be a little bigger, I didn't notice that when reading the first time x_x
Besides that it's nice :D Great job, thank you
SDF[Space]JKL is the default keybindings. I personally use WER[Space]IOP because I have rather big hands SDF[Space]JKL feels too "clustered" for me. As for the keybinding style, just use the symmetrical one if you're a total beginner in the mania mode. What I can say about keybindings is it all depends on your preference, how you feel, etc... You have to make sure you play with the most comfortable settings when playing, and not using other people's settings just because you think they are better than you so their settings are better. Some people even play with some super weird keybindings like ZSXDCF and it - somehow - works for them.

Try to find your own settings. It's also the same with skins : make your own choice.
Bobbias
Beware, when switching key setups, it will take time to get used to a new one. You can't spend an hour (or 4) one day and expect to know whether or not it works for you. You need to play until you feel like you've fully adjusted to the new key setting, and see if it seems to be helping you improve, or not.

Generally though, in 7k there are a few standard settings people use. "SDF JKL", "ASD KL:", "WER UIO", "QWE IOP". I have seen some people use setups like "SEF JIL" an such as well, but they are less common.

There really isn't an inherent "advantage" to any sort of key binding. It really depends on whether or not that binding works for you.

And yes, the link to Entozer's list could be bigger.
[- 6D -]
Great guide! Really interesting stuff.
For me I train with HardRock, Hidden and Random Mods :D
HardRock - Trains your accuracy like crazy!!
Hidden - This estimation somehow allows you to feel the music more than from sightreading normally
Random - Prevents memorization of patterns! With this, you can play your favourite beatmaps over and over again! (The Notes randomize each time you restart)
After training with these 3 mods and going back to playing with no mods, everything will become way easier :D
Do experiment with new key configs if you are still new, I once tried (Lshift Z X 0 4 5 6 (numbers on numpad)), feels like playing a guitar lol
Gravey-
That was helpful to me and to others who are need help.
Ceph23
Woah. These things look impossible at first glance, but the fact that you guys are giving tips like these means that you pros are doing this.
Great read. Thanks bro. I should get back to practice then.
Topic Starter
Drace
Thanks again on the positive feedback! I finally added the reading section I've been working on for a while, feel free to comment~
PyaKura

Drace wrote:

Thanks again on the positive feedback! I finally added the reading section I've been working on for a while, feel free to comment~
Truly interesting, and there I was wondering how could people read those BMS maps not too long ago...

Being an advanced-beginner, (only clearing up to level 30 o2jam songs) I don't know how I should proceed to train myself on one reading technique or the other. I feel like I just play the patterns coming at me without giving a real sense to them (well, the only maps I could somehow feel and make sense out of the patterns are GravitoN HD and Freedom Dive 7K MX, but there aren't really enough hard patterns to make use of these techniques).

Good job !
Xcrypt


I'm sorry, but this is what I think of when you say ET! What does it actually stand for!?

Also, I'm not so sure it takes years of practice to play long note maps. I played o2mania intensely for 4 months and I was able to clear the lvl40 song [SHD] Out of control, which is pure inverse LN. It's probably one of the easiest LN maps though. I did practice on it a lot as well, and this was one of the only songs above level 30 that I was able to clear. But I've seen youtube videos of players clearing lv80 long note maps who 'claim' to have less than one year of experience.

And oh my, I don't even understand how this is possible. I can't even remotely read it.
Topic Starter
Drace
ET stands for the exact same thing it stood for in that movie; Extraterrestrial, so so damn good they aren't human anymore. It's actually a very common term thrown around daily in all similar games ;o

The times are guidelines based on casual play, an hour or two a day and not really every day. It's how most players play and in turn would be true for most players. I thought about changing them to gameplay time instead but I just haven't gotten to doing so yet. Also keep in mind that "clearing" isn't a basis to say you can "do them". If it took an intense 4 months to clear 1 map with repeated practice; it will take that much if not longer to S any similar patterns on the first try. Which is what I personally consider being able to do a pattern.
Xcrypt
True that. I couldn't even 'do' level 15 patterns. I can't even do level 5 patterns yet. My accuracy is just terrible! Whether I play easy maps or insane maps I just always end up with B or A xD But working on it!
Xcrypt
Can anyone give me some advice in working on accuracy?

I have now reached the point where I can get a high A or low S on a map that I feel 100% comfortable playing.
With that I mean: not a single hesitation in the patterns to execute, 0 misses, etc. Basically where the only mistakes I make are little timing mistakes (200 and very rarely 100's).
Say, if I wanted to get 99%+ accuracy on these maps, would I have to practice slow boring maps all the time?
Would accuracy also automatically come if I play maps that are a little more challenging (where I get low-high A's), so I can also add some pattern and chord practice in my plays?

Basically, I want to get good accuracy but I don't want to play boring maps all the time, is that possible?
PyaKura
Play what you usually play with HR on. If you end up failing, don't hesitate to add NF into the mix, score doesn't matter when you train your acc.
Xcrypt
Why would I play what I usually play (which is stuff I get highB-lowA on) with HR if I can't even get 95%+ WITHOUT HR...
I mean I can play the hardest standard maps (that I own -> freedom dive) or o2jam level songs up to lvl 20-25 with highB-lowA.
But the maps I can S are < insane standard maps or < lvl10 o2jam level songs that are terribly boring to play...
Jin Xero

Xcrypt wrote:

Why would I play what I usually play (which is stuff I get highB-lowA on) with HR if I can't even get 95%+ WITHOUT HR...
I mean I can play the hardest standard maps (that I own -> freedom dive) or o2jam level songs up to lvl 20-25 with highB-lowA.
But the maps I can S are < insane standard maps or < lvl10 o2jam level songs that are terribly boring to play...
You just got to feel the beat, and the accuracy will come naturally.
Bobbias
Xcrypt, practising on harder stuff helps you improve faster. Don't feel like you need to be able to S/A/B everything. Everyone needs to top thinking in terms of the rank you got, or the score. The important things are: If you want to improve, play stuff that is "too hard" for you; and focus on personal improvement, not trying to read some arbitrary rank/score. I don't care how well I've done on something, I always want to get a better score. There's no "I gotta keep trying till I get XYZ" so I play maps I find fun without stressing myself over my scores.
Xcrypt
Problem is, when I get < 85% accuracy, which would be true for level 25+ songs, I feel like I can't handle the patterns properly. My wrists/fingers start hurting a lot (especially because I play 4hours a day on avg, in periods). Also, those songs feel more like a typing exercise than a rhythm experience. I don't want to get back into my old habits and mess up my wrists again. I like to play in the sweet spot of 85-95%, which feels like the patterns are challenging enough to keep me entertained. I just hope I won't mess up my accuracy like that, because I suppose most of you guys play around 92-99%
Topic Starter
Drace
To be honest full combo'ing a song with such a low accuracy is pretty unheard of. I find getting 98%+ is much easier than getting full combo. I would first make sure your setup is working optimally. Try different frame limiters (I play on unlimited always) and try adjusting your global offset. Try reloading the skin, there's this bug that messes everything up relating to spectating.

But if everything IS working fine, you just need to adjust to this game's timing. And playing with HR does help with accuracy since most of those 200s and 100s will be registered as misses, and most those 300s will become 200s. More penalty on bad timings will improve your accuracy faster than with minimal penalty.
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
Nice :D
Bobbias

Drace wrote:

To be honest full combo'ing a song with such a low accuracy is pretty unheard of. I find getting 98%+ is much easier than getting full combo. I would first make sure your setup is working optimally. Try different frame limiters (I play on unlimited always) and try adjusting your global offset. Try reloading the skin, there's this bug that messes everything up relating to spectating.

But if everything IS working fine, you just need to adjust to this game's timing. And playing with HR does help with accuracy since most of those 200s and 100s will be registered as misses, and most those 300s will become 200s. More penalty on bad timings will improve your accuracy faster than with minimal penalty.
Actually, it seems like there are mainly 2 'groups' of people when it comes to accuracy vs combo length. Some people seem to be naturally able to get long combos, while others seem to be better at getting high accuracy.

Personally I consider myself in the accuracy group, but only because I'm quite awful at keeping a combo going (since I'm not particularly good with accuracy either).

Xcrypt wrote:

Problem is, when I get < 85% accuracy, which would be true for level 25+ songs, I feel like I can't handle the patterns properly. My wrists/fingers start hurting a lot (especially because I play 4hours a day on avg, in periods). Also, those songs feel more like a typing exercise than a rhythm experience. I don't want to get back into my old habits and mess up my wrists again. I like to play in the sweet spot of 85-95%, which feels like the patterns are challenging enough to keep me entertained. I just hope I won't mess up my accuracy like that, because I suppose most of you guys play around 92-99%
I don't "play around" any particular accuracy percentage. The harder a song is, predictably, the lower my score. I personally find that the difference between a score in the 85-93% (roughly) range and something that would be in the 95%+ range for me is actually pretty large. In terms of what I play, I have scores ranging from 98% to 60% depending on how hard something is. I found that ignoring the "comfort zone" has been one of the biggest factors in improving.

Here's my motto: If a song feels "too hard", it's just hard enough. If a song feels "just right" it's too easy.

If you spend time practising on stuff out of your comfort zone, it will "push" your comfort zone higher. Once you get to say around level 25+ songs, you've encountered and learned to play basically every 'building block' pattern there is. Most of the harder patterns are made up of combining these 'building blocks' together in different ways. Even shield streams can be seen as combining certain basic patterns (since shield streams are usually stairs you could consider them a set of simple stairs layered with an LN stair immediately after).

I found I used to have a lot of trouble reading and playing 3+ note chords when they came in groups. My fingers just didn't seem to be able to move the right way. Then I started playing doorknob and davteezy's BMS conversions, and because BMSs have far more complex chords than o2jam charts, the practice soon (a month or 2) led to an improvement in overall finger independence, so not only did I improve at reading and playing complex chords, but I also improved at playing LNs and patterns with 1 or 2 LNs and note streams.

Keep in mind, it takes time to see the effects of practice. You can't just spend play something a few times and say "there I went and practised what I'm bad at". The more time you spend practising on stuff you have difficulty on, the less time it will take to see effects. I honestly feel that most stuff in your "comfort zone" have minimal practice effects beyond keeping you from starting to lose your skill from lack of practice.

Find out WHY your accuracy is low, and then you can figure out how to improve it best. Turn on the Hit Error timing thing and check what your timing looks like. If you always seem to be early/late, change the global offset and find out what the best global offset should be.
Entozer

Xcrypt wrote:

My wrists/fingers start hurting a lot (especially because I play 4hours a day on avg, in periods).
What is your hand position when playing?
Xcrypt
@Bobbias.
I agree playing stuff out of your comfort zone makes you better faster. I never said I played inside comfort zone though. I called it the sweet spot, but it IS out of my comort zone. I get a decent amount of misses going and a good amount of bad/good.
But when you're talking about going so far out of your comfort zone (60-75% acc), then you are also training. You might just improve faster too!
The problem is: your body and brain adapts to what you train them to do. So if you train at 60-75%, even though you might improve faster, you will also have gotten better at making mistakes, since those will also be in muscle memory. But the worst thing for me personally is that playing songs that are THAT far out of your comfort zone will put a lot of stress on your hands.
(Btw, I think it's okay to play 60-75% sometimes, I just don't think its fine to play them all day as training, which is what my old training looked like)
Oh and yeah BMS conversions are awesome, but I can only play lv00-01 yet =(

@Entozer
I play with floating wrists (like piano players) mostly. There are some times I will rest my wrist on my desk, but I try to play floating mostly. You could read my other thread on RSI I made some days ago if you want to know more.
The Muffin Man
What's this 'floating wrists' thing? I always play pretty lazily, with my wrists on the desk. Good/bad, common/strange? For reference, I am competent at neither piano nor mania. Key layout SDF JKL for the moment, though up 'til now I was using SDF L;' (UK keyboard) for a wider position.
PyaKura
It all comes down to user's preference. I know I feel better when resting my wrists on my desk and play decently this way, but I can tell that having your wrists in the air gives better "freedom" - I don't know how to describe this - and allow your fingers to move somewhat faster. That's how I feel it. But many people still play with their wrists resting on a support and pull off some crazy plays.
The Muffin Man
I think it might be to do with hand straining. As in, when your fingers freeze up going too fast. Playing osu! standard, I move from tapping with my wrist acting as a pivot to hammering at the keyboard with my wrist in the air when I'm streaming like mad. In any case, thanks for the info.
Xcrypt
It's mainly because floating wrists is the proper position to do typing (ergonomics), will put much less punishment on your wrists. For some people it also gives a slight increase in speed, and I find it easier to switch between finger/wrist/arm tapping modes when playing with floating wrists.
Resting wrist on your desk on the other hand, might give you more stability. But I think stability can be trained in floating position too, and resting your hand on desk is really bad for hand health. But I guess some people can get away with it.
Isopach
i play with left hand rested and right hand hovering
Entozer

Xcrypt wrote:

@Entozer
I play with floating wrists (like piano players) mostly. There are some times I will rest my wrist on my desk, but I try to play floating mostly. You could read my other thread on RSI I made some days ago if you want to know more.
Sorry for the very late reply. I don't check the forums daily.

Hmm, I've seen a lot of players who also plays with their wrists floating but they never experienced their hand hurting a lot after some hours. As for me, I play with my hand resting on the table (but for typing, I don't rest my hands on the table. I just feels weird to type that way). The only time I experienced my hand hurting a lot (and I mean a lot) would be when I'm hitting the keys too hard and moving my hands too fast.

Maybe you are hitting the keys too hard? The only thing you should be feeling after a long hour of mania-ing should be tiredness. If your hands are hurting, you're probably playing songs that are a bit too hard for you (not that it's bad, but too much is never good). Try to play songs that you are comfortable with. For new patterns, I know that sometimes you unconsciously hit the keys hard to get a feel on it but too much is not good.

Anyway, disregard everything I've said if my assumptions are wrong.
Xcrypt
You are right, I think. In the past I didn't play with floating hands though, so combine that with me playing hard maps all day and me being senstive to this stuff and you can imagine a pretty bad RSI. I'm trying to adjust my playstyle atm.
The Muffin Man
Now that I'm playing a bit more frequently, my hands just stay in whatever position is comfortable. For >200 BPM songs on standard, I sometimes push my thumb on the desk to sort of stay closer to the keyboard while streaming. Mania I often pull the keyboard closer to the edge of the desk and rest my forearms on the edge (with floating wrists). But, I don't have a proper technique for either.

I've never had any pain issues, save for my fingers aching after I've played with them freezing up (which only happens very occasionally).
Xcrypt
Hey that's actually a great method to stream in standard! solves my balance issues AND ergonomic issues ^^
Can't believe I didn't think of that :)
scottyyy
I'm like next level terrible at mania. It's so hard, I'm struggling to pass half star easy maps. I'll keep playing though (7k atm) and see what happens.
Xcrypt
Don't worry about it scotty, eventually you'll be clearing maps that you previously thought were literally impossible for you. But just focus on having fun it's not good to worry about performance always :)
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