adam2046 wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

You misinterpret what I mean, what I was saying was that we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game.
You seem to misinterpret on purpose too.

I'm sorry if I misinterpret what you MEAN, but I can only go off of what you SAY. Next time, if you MEAN "we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game" then maybe you should SAY "we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game" instead of saying "anyone wanna point real fingers now?".

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.

Wojjan wrote:

As predicted, I was away for a while, due to massive amounts of visiting town halls.

BageBob claimed doctor. Yay, now we know. Thanks for making this harder for all of us, we're bound to lose you on N2. Unless of course you're a scum. I do think your theory is credible, but if I were scum, I would have seen this happen too, and theree's no solid proof yet you're the doctor, since you can freely say who you protected as long as that person is still alive.

• BagelBob: +0.5

at least you explained...

You're right in a sense. However, you admit that this would be something you could see both sides doing. Why does that make it scummy?

Wojjan wrote:

't seems I missed that post on adam, and I checked it again. There's no possible way you can see this how Bagel did without looking for reasons to suspect him.

• Bagelbob: +1

I can't talk about this, since I have no idea what you're saying. Could you clarify, please?

Wojjan wrote:

Bagel, there is nothing wrong with self-preservation, especially in the RVS. Or what for most seemed as the RVS. You're, again, looking for ways to get suspicion on others. Scummy in my yes

• BagelBob: +0.5

I'm sorry, looking for scummy things that people do is scummy? Sorry, but looking for scummy things is called scum-hunting. Try it some time?

Wojjan wrote:

SFG: 4, 4, 3
rust45: 4, 3, 3, 3
strager: 3, 3, 3
0_o: 3, 3
LS: 3
Wojjan: 3
adam: -
Pasonia: -

Could this list be updated anytime soon, maybe at the end of D2? I would like to deduct some more theories from bandwagoning and votes, but I'm not really in place to make a list, since I tend to disappear some times in this period. Sorry for that too.

Pasonia, why are you even in? You're rarely here at all, and vote without reason. Maybe he sees no interesting things in the day phase since his time to shine is at night? Or is he just trying to lay low? I wou:ldn't have any clue.

• Pasonia: +0.5

I'd like to point out that both Scum and Town lurk. That being said, I still don't like it. More on this later.


Also, I'm noting that Wojjan said he'll be gone for 48 hours and will not attempt to prod him until Saturday July 11 4PM CDT, regardless of whether Echo notes it or not.

Quint-Post! Turns out I forgot; I wanted to say that that second post was not where I wanted the discussion. It's a good thing to discuss, but I'd really like to hear what you all think about this:

BagelBob wrote:

And when I said re-read 3, I meant examine SFG's posts. Since she was the NK, it's important to figure out WHY she was NKed. Thus, her posts from the previous day need to be examined.

While reading, keep in mind 2 things
1. SFG was not voting to lynch strager
2. SFG was probably the 2nd most suspicious person after strager

I can come up with 3 reasons that SFG would be NKed.
1. SFG was right on the money. Pasonia or rust (her two main suspicions) are scum. Also including the possibility of adam, but early game and not so much later
2. The Scum wanted to find out who each other are. One posted to Kill: SFG to test if the other was SFG or Suburu (WIFOM argument as pointed out by adam prior)
3. Strager was a scum. Echo didn't tell the other that he was alone and he posted Kill: SFG expecting his "buddy" to either disagree or agree, but being surprised by the day.

All 3 of these are made because there was a short night.

Anyone, Questions, Comments, Alternatives?

BagelBob wrote:

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.

At the end of your post you said

BagelBob wrote:

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?

You wanted thoughts and comments, and I gave them to you. I'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, I was just stating my opinions on the validity of your attacks. Yes we want to find the mafia, but if someone argues someone is mafia because of ____, and I don't agree with the reasoning, I'll point it out. Unless you feel everyone should be out for themselves and only defend accusations against themselves?

0_o wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.

At the end of your post you said

BagelBob wrote:

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?

You wanted thoughts and comments, and I gave them to you. I'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, I was just stating my opinions on the validity of your attacks. Yes we want to find the mafia, but if someone argues someone is mafia because of ____, and I don't agree with the reasoning, I'll point it out. Unless you feel everyone should be out for themselves and only defend accusations against themselves?

You're right, posting that is ambiguous. Again, I think you should only defend someone if you KNOW they are on your team. Any other defenses should come from the person who is being attacked. The thing is, you can't specifically know if what you think they were doing is right. You can give it your best guess, but that's all it is.

Now then, does anyone have any thoughts on someone who they think is scum? Or am I the only one who is going to be scum-hunting?

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

That seemed like a completely random vote. You didn't even explain yourself.

mod: update the first post please. Also, is Pasonia gonna be replaced or no?

Pasonia hasn't replied to my prod yet. Which part of the first post? I updated it last time already.

I have already explained that Iwould be voting Pasonia today.
Please pay more attention Rusty.

Edit: Echo you still haven't changed the list put Bobby on and I would like a list of the dead.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

lol, I suck at being a mod >> (first post updated)

Pasonia will not be replaced or prodded any further. 好きにしなさい

well ok then

vote Pasonia

for reasons stated yesterday
Also, I don't think any townie would vote for BagelBob given the logic of his claim...

Pasonia wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

[quote="Pasonia":44520]EDIT @ adam: I'm sorry I haven't voted in weeks. >.>

Sorry for inactivity? Then later he says that he had planned to lurk this game. Those two don't seem to go together.

Sorry, I was wrong. I didn't know that you had forgotten to bold you vote because of the edit. However, you still said that you planned to lurk this game.

Pasonia wrote:

Your logic is broken the moment you quote THIS post, and now I regard you as scum because you're able to go into so much detail on the mafia thing, while saying little about the person you protected or about yourself.

Could you quote "the mafia thing" so I know exactly what you're talking about?
And if you have any questions or require further explanations, feel free to ask.

viewtopic.php?p=157493#p157493

I am one who goes with my first instinct after swiftly running through posts, so unless you can produce an ultra-convincing case to me why you're not scum, consider this a LOCKED vote BagelBob.

That means, all I will do is restate that my vote is on you until the end of the day cycle, if required to.

Also, for you guys out there; voting for me is bad. You will regret it if you do. You will regret not hitting a scum by hitting someone who's merely inactive.

Posting a bit more because I now have some time to do so.

hmm
unvote, future vote pending Pas/BagelBob discussion. Nice to see you posting now ^_^

EDIT: ok, I'm going to a cottage with some friends for the weekend, so I probably won't be back here for another 36 hours or so. I'll read everything once I get back. Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone ^_^

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Here, Bagel. Watching the discussion and deciding what I think about it.

On SFG: Any of those is possible, and other things could have happened as well. Personally, I don't think we'll get much out of looking too deep into that. *shrug*

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

There are many possible reasons SFG could have been killed, but it's all WIFOM.

As for the current situation, I think Pasonia looks a bit scummy.

As for the approach I reccomend, I think we examine what happened D1, and analyze it.

*goes back to WoW*

LadySuburu wrote:

There are many possible reasons SFG could have been killed, but it's all WIFOM.

As for the current situation, I think Pasonia looks a bit scummy.

As for the approach I reccomend, I think we examine what happened D1, and analyze it.

*goes back to WoW*

It doesn't matter to me if it's WIFOM, I'd still be pleased if you could say one, because

When it comes down to it, Everything is WIFOM.

Again, we need REASONS for people looking scummy, not gut end-stinks.

And I will await your re-examination of D1 and analysis anxiously.

I clearly remember the last time BagelBob was "analytical" it ended in his ignoble death at the hands of the WW2 townies.

Therefore, risking a WIFOM I am pretty sure BB is also a scum this game, and is in fact trying very hard to look like a townie while discrediting the rest as scum.

I hope you guys do remember that while it's good to prove a point, trying too hard (hint: trying like BagelBob is doing) can be detrimental especially if you'd been lying (i.e. you are scum). Just because I'm inactive don't mean shit.

Hey everyone, back after the roughest period up to now.
I see Bagel has replied to my suspicion, and what I said about your adam thing apparently needed clarification. Took long enough, but I'm here.

What I meant to say was that you can't possibly think that is what adam meant, so you were looking for reasons to get him lynched off. This is the same thing you did with 0_o for calling trying to get the stupid voters of the RVS to, you know, see that he's gonna get lynched on no fact at all. I personally would have foound it more weird (not scummy, but weird) if he DIDN'T protect himself.

Trying to find scum, not really.
Trying to grasp on a very tiny straw, yes.

LadySuburu wrote:

*goes back to WoW*

it's Kuu, I know it.

Well, I just did a reread and got absolutely nothing out of it.

Pasonia wrote:

I clearly remember the last time BagelBob was "analytical" it ended in his ignoble death at the hands of the WW2 townies.

It seems you missed the last two games where I was "analytical" and got killed night 1.
On a side note, HOLY CRAP I'M ALIVE DAY 2!

Furthermore, WW2 is an ONGOING game, and while it is acceptable THERE to talk about it out of thread, I'd appreciate if you didn't bring it into other games. There is NO PROOF that I was ever a wolf in that game. The only thing I was lynched by was Suburu claiming that I was a wolf. There was absolutely nothing raised against my argument, and I'm reasonably pissed off that no one even tried to look at my argument, they just assumed Suburu was telling the truth. There was no scum-hunting involved and, because of that, you lynched the Guardian Angel. Good job.

Pasonia wrote:

Therefore, risking a WIFOM I am pretty sure BB is also a scum this game, and is in fact trying very hard to look like a townie while discrediting the rest as scum.

You think I'm scum because I'm trying to look like a townie? It appears that you've missed this post. Also, I haven't been "trying to look like a townie", I've been "trying to look for scum".

Pasonia wrote:

I hope you guys do remember that while it's good to prove a point, trying too hard (hint: trying like BagelBob is doing) can be detrimental especially if you'd been lying (i.e. you are scum). Just because I'm inactive don't mean shit.

What point is it that you think I'm trying too hard to prove? I don't recall having made any assertions other than what I think is scummy. If you want to say that my reasons aren't scummy, go ahead, but unless you provide proof to the contrary, I won't change my opinions. As for "just" being inactive, I believe I've stated that before. However, you haven't been "just" inactive. It's obvious that you've been reading the thread, but up until now, you haven't posted unless prodded. You're avoiding posting on purpose, not due to circumstances beyond your control.

Wojjan wrote:

What I meant to say was that you can't possibly think that is what adam meant, so you were looking for reasons to get him lynched off.

Ah, I see, you were referring to

BagelBob wrote:

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

I may have phrased that the wrong way.
I think this is scummy because adam is asking other people to scum-hunt, without he himself doing anything.

Wojjan wrote:

This is the same thing you did with 0_o for calling trying to get the stupid voters of the RVS to, you know, see that he's gonna get lynched on no fact at all. I personally would have foound it more weird (not scummy, but weird) if he DIDN'T protect himself.

If you're saying I did something in the RVS that was suspicious, then you might want to read through the game again, or say it was Kuu.
There's two separate things I said about 0_o.
The first is that he was defending himself in the RVS. This is scummy, because no one should get lynched in the RVS. If someone DOES get lynched in the RVS, the person who hammered is like 99.5% scum and should be lynched. A 1 for 1 trade in Mafia is a very good thing. But even for that to happen, 3 townies have to be voting the same person in RVS, and no townie should be foolish enough to keep their vote on someone like that. I feel it was scummy because he reacted strongly when I felt there was no danger.
The second thing is that he specifically stated that putting someone at L-2 in RVS was scummy, while he did such himself twice.
Feel free to disagree, you're entitled to your opinions, but saying I'm scummy for thinking someone else did something scummy just doesn't make any sense.

LadySuburu wrote:

Well, I just did a reread and got absolutely nothing out of it.

Well, bummer, but lets look at what you think could be the reasons for SFG's night kill now.

Oh, and

Prod for Rust and adam plox

BagelBob wrote:

Well, bummer, but lets look at what you think could be the reasons for SFG's night kill now.

No one's saying anything because we know that whatever anyone says, you're just going use whatever it is to attack them.

Sheesh, no matter how many times I reread I just can't decide on someone that looks the most like scum.

OK I'm back.
It sounds to me like Pasonia seems to be sure of the fact the BagelBob is lying, and to me the only way of knowing that for sure is if Pas was the doctor himself. Thing is I don't know how BagelBob would be able to get away with a doctor claim if he was mafia. BB is pretty smart though, so idk..
I'm inclined to think BagelBob is the doctor, but given Pasonia's behavior I'm not sure enough to rule out the fact that Pasonia might be the doctor instead. So I'm gonna wait to see who the NK is tonight before placing votes on one of them.
I'll be back and post more later probably.

I don't think we should lynch BagelBob today (although I feel suspicious of him since he doesn't want the cop scanning him at all) and I feel suspicious of Pasonia's rather weird behaviour (threatening that we "will regret it"?)

I'm going to have to vote for Pasonia for now.

adam2046 wrote:

No one's saying anything because we know that whatever anyone says, you're just going use whatever it is to attack them.

Well put. Bagel is obviously attacking everyone to get suspicion on anyone but him. I'd give him another boost on the suspicion list, but I think I've seen enough.

At this point, I've tried so many times to get the discussion going and it hasn't worked.

So I'm just going to

Vote Pasonia

For that Ad Hominem
and for being the highest on SFG's suspicion list since she was the NK


Also, I'm sick and I probably won't be able to post again soon, but I'll try to get one tomorrow

Vote Count
Pasonia (2) - adam2046, BagelBob - L2
BagelBob (1) - Pasonia

Not Voting: 0_o, Wojjan, rust45, LadySuburu

Vote: Pasonia (L-1 now.)

Looking at the BB vs Pasonia, There are things Pasonia said (IE: "Voting for me is bad"), and his actions this game, versus how Bagel's been acting this game, leads me to believe BB is likely town and Pasonia is scum.

I'm resisting the urge to hammer Pas, but I'm REALLY suspicious of his blunt approach and shady behaviour.
But Bagel, if we aren't discussing, we don't have things to say. Don't push it or you may as well indeed end up looking like scum trying to get us all to attack people. I guess this is how you usually roll, but have you ever considered why you always die at the hands of the villagers in Mafia and Werewolf?

Vote Count

Pasonia (3) - adam, BagelBob, Suburu
BagelBob (1) - Pasonia

Not Voting: 0_o, Wojjan, rust45

-- Pasonia is at L-1!

Here's your long awaited (official) vote count.

Well, you can put me at L-1 now and I won't resist. But if you guys lose coz you lose that chance of hitting me today, you know your scum isn't me. And if I die, you know who to aim.

Mark my words - Bagel doesn't even TRY to play analytical UNLESS he is scum (whatever happened to WW2, you guys?!). That's not even WIFOM anymore.

Take it this way - why would I specifically aim BagelBob if I had nothing to gain from it? If I am scum, of course putting him on the line is a good way out, but I am a vanilla and there is no fucking way I'd not try to "blend in". I'm just terribly disappointed that you guys want to lynch me because you believe BagelBob that much more, whilst not trusting that my vote will hit the right people.

You will REALLY regret it if you hit me. I can't reiterate this often enough. I will repeat - you would rather hit an inactive vanilla than smack a BagelBob possible-scum? Would you?

Please don't make blase choices based on my activity level, thanks.