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Mafia 4 [Game over!]

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Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Echo
Vote Count

strager (3) - LadySuburu, adam, rust45
rust45 (2) - Pasonia, Wojjan
Pasonia(2) - SFG, 0_o
SFG (1) - kuwarudo
0_o (1) - strager

-- strager is on L-2!
BagelBob replaces kuwarudo, effective immediately.

Deadline is in 5 hours

Forget all the pretty colours, I can't be bothered >.>
kuwarudo
287 posts
Joined February 2009
kuwarudo
So did I just get replaced already??
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Echo
Yes. By majority :3
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
Ok, Bagelbob is replacing kuwarudo (and I can't imagine him being too quiet :P) so since Pas is the only inactive player right now, so I'll stick to my word and give him a day to join in the conversation (though he sticks around and keeps up the 10 word posts, he's facing my wrath tomorrow)

unvote
revote strager
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
I'll go ahead and confirm that I'm replacing Kuu here in the thread.

I've read through the game once and to be Frank, you all look guilty.
It's a good thing I'm not Frank.

My Initial suspicions are against SFG and strager, but if I bring in past games, I'd expect Suburu to be way more suspicious of SFG.

So, Lurking is bad
This post has good reasons for voting almost anyone and
asking other people to name people as scum is a scum-tactic since it causes distrust and it's very unlikely at this stage that anyone gets it right.

Also

LadySuburu wrote:

There are rare cases that a townie hammers without waiting for some discussion, but those are rare.
Hehe... that explains why you're reluctant to vote SFG

So, in conclusion, you've all done things that make you look like scum, so I don't know what to do.
I'm going to re-read the game and see if I catch anything this time.

@strager
You seem to be almost lynched. You were breadcrumbing cop earlier, if you want to claim, I'd suggest doing it now.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o

BagelBob wrote:

I've read through the game once and to be Frank, you all look guilty.
I lol'd :P
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
Alright, I re-read through and I didn't see much else, except something about 0_o rubbed me the wrong way. It's probably just my gut and my tiredness, and I don't have anything to back it up. It's too late to make a difference anyway.

deadline wrote:

vote: strager
strager, you're going to get lynched, even claiming vanilla would help since roles aren't revealed upon death
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Echo
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
*sob*
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Echo
Next morning, the group awoke to find SFG missing. They all seem to remember a huge thunderstorm last night, complete with lightning flashes and thunderous booms... or was it a thunderstorm? The ground was dry as dust...

---

SFG has been killed and is now eliminated from this game.
Day 2 begins immediately, and ends Thursday 16th June, 5pm GMT+8

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
woah, that was quick =/

EDIT: also BagelBob if you still find me suspicious I'll respond to any comments you have against me
EDIT2: mod: remember to update days/nights in the topic title? :3
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Mod: Due to numerous complaints I have edited the title of this thread. Please update the log on the first page, too!
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046
I feel less suspicious of LS now as I would think he would keep her around as an easily manipulated pawn if he were mafia (commence WIFOM here)
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
rust45
1,088 posts
Joined May 2009
rust45
BagelBob, if you're the doctor, who did you protect?
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
hmm interesting idea

I'm not the cop though :?
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
Echo: can I get prods for LadySuburu, Pasonia, and Wojjan
24h has not yet passed ~Echo

rust, I protected LadySuburu
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
LadySuburu
I'm here.

Bagel: Any particular reason you chose me to protect?

Rereading a bit.
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
Yeah, you're my buddy. And everyone looks like Scum.

Starting re-read 3 now.
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
LadySuburu
Mmk, did a quick check on something I was thinking about.

I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like adam's been a lot less active this game. Looking through his posts, I see some seriousness, but little content overall. His posts are also not that frequent.

I'm not one who has played with him before, does anyone else feel like this is the case?

adam: Do you have a particular reason that you're not really posting as much? Lack of interest?

I'll do a full reread soon.
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
And when I said re-read 3, I meant examine SFG's posts. Since she was the NK, it's important to figure out WHY she was NKed. Thus, her posts from the previous day need to be examined.

While reading, keep in mind 2 things
1. SFG was not voting to lynch strager
2. SFG was probably the 2nd most suspicious person after strager

I can come up with 3 reasons that SFG would be NKed.
1. SFG was right on the money. Pasonia or rust (her two main suspicions) are scum. Also including the possibility of adam, but early game and not so much later
2. The Scum wanted to find out who each other are. One posted to Kill: SFG to test if the other was SFG or Suburu (WIFOM argument as pointed out by adam prior)
3. Strager was a scum. Echo didn't tell the other that he was alone and he posted Kill: SFG expecting his "buddy" to either disagree or agree, but being surprised by the day.

All 3 of these are made because there was a short night.

Anyone, Questions, Comments, Alternatives?
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046
I told you that I take a different approach to each game Subi.
This game is quite different to a normal mafia game so I decided to play it quite differently, I will probably make more posts per day as the game goes on.
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
OK, re-read 3 has produced some things I want to look at.

This post bothers me. 0_o is speculating on the game set-up instead of scum-hunting, a supposed scum-tell, but it's really too early for that to mean much. However, he's making a case that Mafia are going to look like Townies. This is scummy because it gets people thinking that townies are really scum.

[quote="Pasonia":702ff]EDIT @ adam: I'm sorry I haven't voted in weeks. >.>Sorry for inactivity? Then later he says that he had planned to lurk this game. Those two don't seem to go together.

[quote="0_o":702ff]woah im on L-2 guys... watch where you're voting..

hey strager I haven't heard any claims against being mafia from you either.. :O

I'm not mafia

EDIT: also seems kinda fishy to me to put a "random" vote against someone who already has 2...

vote WojjanSelf-preservation is Scummy. Also, here 0_o says that putting someone at L-2 is "kinda fishy"
Which he himself did twice.

Pictures serve to distract people and generally hurt scum-hunting.

rust seems to have no problems putting someone at L-1.

[quote="Wojjan":702ff]I lost count, am I on L-1 yet?
I take it this game won't last long for me this way :(Again, self-preservation is scummy.

More self-preservation

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

Again, self-preservation

This post is very interesting. At the time, stragers vote was the one he received when he switched with SFG. I.E. he was NOT voting who he thought was scum. I think this gives credit to the "strager was a goon" theory.

LS wrote:

SFG: 4, 4, 3
rust45: 4, 3, 3, 3
strager: 3, 3, 3
0_o: 3, 3
LS: 3
Wojjan: 3
adam: -
Pasonia: -
adam has not done ANY scum-hunting and none of his posts has any quality.

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
OK I'll start with the response to the attacks on me, then look at everyone else in the next post (because I don't like giant posts :P)

BagelBob wrote:

This post bothers me. 0_o is speculating on the game set-up instead of scum-hunting, a supposed scum-tell, but it's really too early for that to mean much. However, he's making a case that Mafia are going to look like Townies. This is scummy because it gets people thinking that townies are really scum.
I don't see what's wrong with that post really. Truth is, we are going to have to dig deeper to find mafia this game, so we are gonna have to look a little harder than previous games if we want to win.

Self-preservation is Scummy. Also, here 0_o says that putting someone at L-2 is "kinda fishy"
Which he himself did twice.
I didn't say putting someone on L-2 is scummy, I said putting someone on L-2 by a supposed "random vote" is a little suspicious.

Pictures serve to distract people and generally hurt scum-hunting.
Oh come on :P I doubt posting a picture is going to hinder anyone's scum-finding process.

more stuff about self-preservation
Of course I was gonna try to keep myself from getting lynched, I am the only one who I am sure isn't mafia, and personally I think I can be useful for the town. I don't really see how not wanting to get lynched at RVS is scum tell :|
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046

BagelBob wrote:

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.
You misinterpret what I mean, what I was saying was that we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game.
You seem to misinterpret on purpose too.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o

BagelBob wrote:

[quote="Pasonia":c0cb3]EDIT @ adam: I'm sorry I haven't voted in weeks. >.>
Sorry for inactivity? Then later he says that he had planned to lurk this game. Those two don't seem to go together.I think by not voting in weeks means that he hasn't placed a vote in a WW/mafia game for weeks (hence why he forgot to bold his vote)

rust seems to have no problems putting someone at L-1.
Well he did already explain that his behavior in the first half of that day was to "make things more interesting", and he is a newbie, but I'm not sure what to think myself.

[quote="Wojjan":c0cb3]I lost count, am I on L-1 yet?
I take it this game won't last long for me this way :(
Again, self-preservation is scummy.Again, at RVS I don't see anything wrong with wanting to stick around. Though I don't really see this as self-preservation, but what do I know

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.
I see this as an attempt to get people voting for who they actually think is mafia, as opposed to all the joke votes, tying votes, etc. that we've been doing up till then. I was actually gonna post that myself, before I saw that adam already did.

This post is very interesting. At the time, stragers vote was the one he received when he switched with SFG. I.E. he was NOT voting who he thought was scum. I think this gives credit to the "strager was a goon" theory.
Possibly, but keep in mind that strager was the one who requested to switch votes, and that was still around the time where most of the votes were jokes. I'm still suspecting strager being mafia, I just don't know if this is good evidence for it or not.

adam has not done ANY scum-hunting and none of his posts has any quality.
I'll let adam speak for himself on this one
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
As predicted, I was away for a while, due to massive amounts of visiting town halls.

BageBob claimed doctor. Yay, now we know. Thanks for making this harder for all of us, we're bound to lose you on N2. Unless of course you're a scum. I do think your theory is credible, but if I were scum, I would have seen this happen too, and theree's no solid proof yet you're the doctor, since you can freely say who you protected as long as that person is still alive.
  • BagelBob: +0.5
at least you explained...

't seems I missed that post on adam, and I checked it again. There's no possible way you can see this how Bagel did without looking for reasons to suspect him.
  • Bagelbob: +1
Bagel, there is nothing wrong with self-preservation, especially in the RVS. Or what for most seemed as the RVS. You're, again, looking for ways to get suspicion on others. Scummy in my yes
  • BagelBob: +0.5
SFG: 4, 4, 3
rust45: 4, 3, 3, 3
strager: 3, 3, 3
0_o: 3, 3
LS: 3
Wojjan: 3
adam: -
Pasonia: -
Could this list be updated anytime soon, maybe at the end of D2? I would like to deduct some more theories from bandwagoning and votes, but I'm not really in place to make a list, since I tend to disappear some times in this period. Sorry for that too.

Pasonia, why are you even in? You're rarely here at all, and vote without reason. Maybe he sees no interesting things in the day phase since his time to shine is at night? Or is he just trying to lay low? I wou:ldn't have any clue.
  • Pasonia: +0.5
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
Whoops, one more foot note

mod:I might be on the road for a time tomorrow. Could you maybe consider only prodding me in 48 hours when asked? thanks in advance.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
As Pasonia likes to put it, dead people don't talk. Read rules 5 and 6. You are not allowed to talk to anyone regarding the game in any way.
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
Ok, since you don't like long posts, I'll break it up and do a quad-post, just for you.

First thing first:
Can I please get a prod for Pasonia?



0_o wrote:

OK I'll start with the response to the attacks on me, then look at everyone else in the next post (because I don't like giant posts :P)

BagelBob wrote:

This post bothers me. 0_o is speculating on the game set-up instead of scum-hunting, a supposed scum-tell, but it's really too early for that to mean much. However, he's making a case that Mafia are going to look like Townies. This is scummy because it gets people thinking that townies are really scum.
I don't see what's wrong with that post really. Truth is, we are going to have to dig deeper to find mafia this game, so we are gonna have to look a little harder than previous games if we want to win.
I believe it's unintentional, but this is a straw-man. The truth of the argument is not in question. The fact is that the argument is in support of the scum, rather than the town.

0.o wrote:

Self-preservation is Scummy. Also, here 0_o says that putting someone at L-2 is "kinda fishy"
Which he himself did twice.
I didn't say putting someone on L-2 is scummy, I said putting someone on L-2 by a supposed "random vote" is a little suspicious.
I did indeed leave those words out, but again, two of your three times putting someone at L-2 were in the random vote stage.

O.o wrote:

Pictures serve to distract people and generally hurt scum-hunting.
Oh come on :P I doubt posting a picture is going to hinder anyone's scum-finding process.
In general. In this case the picture was quickly forgotten. Also, there wasn't any scum-hunting going on at the time.This was supposed to be a general warning that it is a bad idea.

O.o wrote:

more stuff about self-preservation
Of course I was gonna try to keep myself from getting lynched, I am the only one who I am sure isn't mafia, and personally I think I can be useful for the town. I don't really see how not wanting to get lynched at RVS is scum tell :|
That's exactly the point. In RVS you shouldn't HAVE to be concerned about not getting lynched since all the votes are random. If a lynch happens in the RVS, then multiple people are doing something wrong. It is not necessary to try and live through the RVS. RVS should be a time when you look for initial reasons to start pushing someone.
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old

adam2046 wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.
You misinterpret what I mean, what I was saying was that we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game.
You seem to misinterpret on purpose too.
I'm sorry if I misinterpret what you MEAN, but I can only go off of what you SAY. Next time, if you MEAN "we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game" then maybe you should SAY "we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game" instead of saying "anyone wanna point real fingers now?".
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old

Wojjan wrote:

As predicted, I was away for a while, due to massive amounts of visiting town halls.

BageBob claimed doctor. Yay, now we know. Thanks for making this harder for all of us, we're bound to lose you on N2. Unless of course you're a scum. I do think your theory is credible, but if I were scum, I would have seen this happen too, and theree's no solid proof yet you're the doctor, since you can freely say who you protected as long as that person is still alive.
  • BagelBob: +0.5
at least you explained...
You're right in a sense. However, you admit that this would be something you could see both sides doing. Why does that make it scummy?

Wojjan wrote:

't seems I missed that post on adam, and I checked it again. There's no possible way you can see this how Bagel did without looking for reasons to suspect him.
  • Bagelbob: +1
I can't talk about this, since I have no idea what you're saying. Could you clarify, please?


Wojjan wrote:

Bagel, there is nothing wrong with self-preservation, especially in the RVS. Or what for most seemed as the RVS. You're, again, looking for ways to get suspicion on others. Scummy in my yes
  • BagelBob: +0.5
I'm sorry, looking for scummy things that people do is scummy? Sorry, but looking for scummy things is called scum-hunting. Try it some time?


Wojjan wrote:

SFG: 4, 4, 3
rust45: 4, 3, 3, 3
strager: 3, 3, 3
0_o: 3, 3
LS: 3
Wojjan: 3
adam: -
Pasonia: -
Could this list be updated anytime soon, maybe at the end of D2? I would like to deduct some more theories from bandwagoning and votes, but I'm not really in place to make a list, since I tend to disappear some times in this period. Sorry for that too.

Pasonia, why are you even in? You're rarely here at all, and vote without reason. Maybe he sees no interesting things in the day phase since his time to shine is at night? Or is he just trying to lay low? I wou:ldn't have any clue.
  • Pasonia: +0.5
I'd like to point out that both Scum and Town lurk. That being said, I still don't like it. More on this later.


Also, I'm noting that Wojjan said he'll be gone for 48 hours and will not attempt to prod him until Saturday July 11 4PM CDT, regardless of whether Echo notes it or not.
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old
Quint-Post! Turns out I forgot; I wanted to say that that second post was not where I wanted the discussion. It's a good thing to discuss, but I'd really like to hear what you all think about this:


BagelBob wrote:

And when I said re-read 3, I meant examine SFG's posts. Since she was the NK, it's important to figure out WHY she was NKed. Thus, her posts from the previous day need to be examined.

While reading, keep in mind 2 things
1. SFG was not voting to lynch strager
2. SFG was probably the 2nd most suspicious person after strager

I can come up with 3 reasons that SFG would be NKed.
1. SFG was right on the money. Pasonia or rust (her two main suspicions) are scum. Also including the possibility of adam, but early game and not so much later
2. The Scum wanted to find out who each other are. One posted to Kill: SFG to test if the other was SFG or Suburu (WIFOM argument as pointed out by adam prior)
3. Strager was a scum. Echo didn't tell the other that he was alone and he posted Kill: SFG expecting his "buddy" to either disagree or agree, but being surprised by the day.

All 3 of these are made because there was a short night.

Anyone, Questions, Comments, Alternatives?
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o

BagelBob wrote:

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.
At the end of your post you said

BagelBob wrote:

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?
You wanted thoughts and comments, and I gave them to you. I'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, I was just stating my opinions on the validity of your attacks. Yes we want to find the mafia, but if someone argues someone is mafia because of ____, and I don't agree with the reasoning, I'll point it out. Unless you feel everyone should be out for themselves and only defend accusations against themselves?
BagelBob_old
0 posts
Joined December 2008
BagelBob_old

0_o wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.
At the end of your post you said

BagelBob wrote:

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?
You wanted thoughts and comments, and I gave them to you. I'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, I was just stating my opinions on the validity of your attacks. Yes we want to find the mafia, but if someone argues someone is mafia because of ____, and I don't agree with the reasoning, I'll point it out. Unless you feel everyone should be out for themselves and only defend accusations against themselves?
You're right, posting that is ambiguous. Again, I think you should only defend someone if you KNOW they are on your team. Any other defenses should come from the person who is being attacked. The thing is, you can't specifically know if what you think they were doing is right. You can give it your best guess, but that's all it is.

Now then, does anyone have any thoughts on someone who they think is scum? Or am I the only one who is going to be scum-hunting?
adam2046
1,653 posts
Joined April 2008
adam2046
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
rust45
1,088 posts
Joined May 2009
rust45
That seemed like a completely random vote. You didn't even explain yourself.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o
mod: update the first post please. Also, is Pasonia gonna be replaced or no?
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
Echo
Pasonia hasn't replied to my prod yet. Which part of the first post? I updated it last time already.
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