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ITT 2: We post shit that is neither funny nor interesting

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Aurani
Listen Bird, mate, I'm your biggest supporter and even I believe you did step over the line and from there on started victimising yourself. Just please don't go into the uncanny valley and merge your politics with the whole tuuba deal. That's why people are being like this towards you.

Yes, deleting your posts might've been an exaggeration, but that does not mean you bear no guilt, either. The only thing that happened here is a lack of communication and too much hubris.
Be a man and show some humility. Trust me, it doesn't mean you're wrong, it means you're above the pettiness and whatever display this is.
Cynplytholowazy
ITT 2: We post shit that is neither funny nor interesting
Milkshake
Green Platinum
I'm surprised that Tuuba board is still around
Tupsu

Green Platinum wrote:

I'm surprised that Tuuba board is still around
why wouldn't it be? #tuuba has been around for years and has a group of devotees around it, hence it would only make sense that a forum stemmed from that group is also fairly resilient (though I'll admit before anyone else that it's quiet in there at the moment)
I'm personally waiting for the new forum design to come out and the obvious peak in activity that will come with it - tbf that was why that forum was made in the first place, so I'm not sure why anyone'd be surprised about it being quiet in there with this place still being useable
B1rd
I wonder if it's quiet because you alienated half the userbase

hmm...
Railey2

B1rd wrote:

Free speech works fine in forums, you're exercising de facto free-speech right now by virtue of the fact that no one is repressing it.
Getting banned from a forum for voicing unpopular opinions/being annoying is not a violation of free speech, and neither is getting your posts removed. Getting arrested by the state for voicing an unpopular opinion is a violation of free speech. Forums got nothing to do with it.


B1rd wrote:

The "rules" are tantamount to "do what I say, don't say anything I don't want you to say or say anything that my arbitrarily decided in-group doesn't want you to say".
Yes, that's kind of how it works when you have a small circle of people that just want to be among themselves and aren't looking for annoying, drawn-out fights. Tuuba is a forum for said in-group. If you don't fit and constantly clash with other users, you are no longer wanted. This is no different to how it works irl, by the way. You consistently provocate people and generally act in annoying ways? Eventually you're gonna get kicked out. Would you then complain about "missing impartiality" the same way you're complaining here? Have some common sense, man.


Here you even admit to being an annoying prick:

B1rd wrote:

And it wasn't even about "me being an ass" (which is completely subjective, btw). The reason was literally because I was posting Trump memes, not directed at anyone, and a vocal minority were complaining about their safe space was being invaded and that certain forms of politics be banned from Tuuba's ITT. That is why I mocked those two and they definitely deserved it.
Yeah, you being an ass is subjectiv, that's the whole point! It's subjective to THEM, so THEY removed your stuff because THEY don't want to deal with annoying shit.

But to sum this up: You broke the rules by posting politics in a place where it wasn't wanted. In other words: You were being annoying, even more so after mocking them afterwards. Now you double down on it by basically calling them all pussies who need "safe spaces" (very patronizing). Charming as always.

Are you really surprised that they wanted to get rid of you?

But this is the kicker:

B1rd wrote:

I only provoked other people because I needed to verify the "rules".
who on earth does something like that? Being annoying on purpose to verify the rules, excuse me what? No wonder they deleted your shit, lol.

Do you not have any experience with RL social interaction? Are you a sociopath? What's going on here?




I really don't dislike you that much, in my book you're just one hell of a weird guy. But damn this looks like you really need to get out of your cave.
B1rd

Railey2 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Free speech works fine in forums, you're exercising de facto free-speech right now by virtue of the fact that no one is repressing it.
Getting banned from a forum for voicing unpopular opinions/being annoying is not a violation of free speech. Getting arrested by the state for voicing an unpopular opinion is a violation of free speech. Forums got nothing to do with it.


B1rd wrote:

The "rules" are tantamount to "do what I say, don't say anything I don't want you to say or say anything that my arbitrarily decided in-group doesn't want you to say".
Yes, that's kind of how it works when you have a small circle of people that just want to be among themselves and aren't looking for annoying, drawn-out fights. Tuuba is a forum for said in-group. If you don't fit and constantly clash with other users, you are no longer wanted. This is no different to how it works irl, by the way. You consistently provocate people and generally act in annoying ways? Eventually you're gonna get kicked out. Would you then complain about "missing impartiality" the same way you're complaining here? Have some common sense, man.


Here you even admit to being an annoying prick:

B1rd wrote:

And it wasn't even about "me being an ass" (which is completely subjective, btw). The reason was literally because I was posting Trump memes, not directed at anyone, and a vocal minority were complaining about their safe space was being invaded and that certain forms of politics be banned from Tuuba's ITT. That is why I mocked those two and they definitely deserved it.
Yeah, you being an ass is subjectiv, that's the whole point! It's subjective to THEM, so THEY banned YOU because THEY don't want to deal with ASSES.

But to sum this up: You broke the rules by posting politics in a place where it wasn't wanted. In other words: You were being annoying, even more so after mocking them afterwards. Now you double down on it by basically calling them all pussies who need "safe spaces" (very patronizing). Charming as always.

Are you really surprised that they wanted to get rid of you?

But this is the kicker:

B1rd wrote:

I only provoked other people because I needed to verify the "rules".
who on earth does something like that? Being annoying on purpose to verify the rules, excuse me what? No wonder they banned you, lol.

Do you not have any experience with RL social interaction? Are you a sociopath? What's going on here?




I really don't dislike you that much, in my book you're just one hell of a weird guy. But damn this looks like you really need to get out of your cave. You got banned on fucking tuuba my man. If that's not a sign that you need to reconsider your life choices, then I don't know what is.

Your post is wrong in many areas. Read all sides, not just one PM from a biased individual.

You are wrong because

-I didn't get banned, I left
-free speech is an ideal that has more implications than only being about state protection for individuals
-there was no collective "them", my posts were deleted by one person, and there were only three people who that were being vocal against my posts. There were people that support/supported me. I was always arguing for a democratic system to decide matters instead of an autocratic system. A majority ruling on conduct I could have accepted
-there were no formal "rules" put in place. Only the server administrator saying I should do this as the drama came up but there was no mention of formal ruleset which I must obey. The suggestions of one individual, whether he owns the server or not, isn't rule of law


The argument was over a specific set of political content, Trump memes, because that very specific content offended a minority of left-wingers who said they were feeling emotionally fragile because of the election, while I was feeling jubilant. I wasn't seeking to cause controversy, only share my feelings on a momentous event such as is the purpose of such forums. If Hillary had won, no doubt they would be ecstatic and be posting about it in ITT, and no doubt I would be feeling depressed, yet I wouldn't ever think to try and ban them from posting because it hurt my feelings. Just because a minority is offended by something, doesn't give said minority the right to enforce their special interests upon the majority. It's the same as you hear with the feminists constantly escalating standards of behaviour on the majority ad nauseum: trigger warnings, how men sit in trains, what people are allowed to joke about, what haircuts and Halloween costumes people are allowed to wear, et cetera. This behaviour is the very definition of a space space and I refuse to take part in a forum which institutes a safe space. The people were free to go to any other part of the forum besides a general thread specifically for general and all-purpose discussion, and I wouldn't have posted anything that offended them there. As I've pointed out many times, having a small minority of people be able to ban content they don't like is a completely illogical and dysfunctional system to put in place. If they were able to ban things that offended them, why weren't I allowed to call for bans on content they posted that offended me and other people? It's a completely logically inconsistent way to run a forum, but I have received no rebuttal to this point. It's a shining example of having a general rule (no political content) that is inconsistently applied and thus a mark of corruption in which one special interest group is allowed to oppress another group they don't like. IppE himself stated that he never was against all political content, only a certain type of political content, and the criteria that defined which political content wasn't allowed seemed to be determined solely on whether it offended a certain minority group.
To have well-functioning system of governance of any kind, it is essential to have impartiality as a corner stone, and this was not present in Tuuba.


The reason I put a provocative post - which was not just edgy and offensive, but which some Tuuba members said was funny, it was satirical and relevant - was because I don't operate in environments with threats looming above my head. I had to see whether the statements were actual threats or just suggestions, the latter of which I can respect.

I get sick of your bias against me in all matters. It is tedious. In this instance I'm right, it was nothing short of a betrayal; I helped found the forum, I donated money to help with the server costs, I was an active member who tried to contribute in the ways that I can, and I helped draft the rules and I worked in my position as a moderator as much as I could to advocate for and to maintain an environment that featured a diverse range of high-quality discussion, in which everyone's right to post was respected and which was mutually beneficial for everyone. I noted all my experiences of how forums work, how good discussions in a forum spring up and are maintained, and tried to implement that in a practical way. But it was trying to achieve that end - trying to inject some integrity into a forum rather than have it devolve in to a petty autocracy as is so common with forums and people with power in forums - that I was ousted. Indeed, maybe I can be overly-provocative at times and need to keep that in mind so I don't needlessly create an unpleasant environment for other people, but I don't take back anything I said (that I can remember), because there were indeed some whiny people who wanted a safe space and deserved to be the target of satire and banter, such as is common in any social environment. No matter which way you cut it, I'm the one who was treated unfairly here.


I implore you to read what I wrote carefully, because in this instance I'd rather not provoke antagonism but rather want to make people aware of what really happened.
DaddyCoolVipper
I feel like if you and a few other people really couldn't stand seeing certain types of posts, and conplined to the admin about it, then that admin quarantining those posts types to a particular thread is a fairly reasonable thing to do. That's all this situation was, really.


I also think you should take a step back and stop with the constant "safe space" mockery- let's not communicate in 4chan memes here, these are real people who just didn't want to see a type of content in ITT since it would often derail discussion.

Remember that "they deserved it" is entirely subjective on your end, too.
B1rd
Safe spaces are real concepts, unironically pursued by some people. Not just a 4chan meme. I've never been a poster on 4chan by the way.

I know what your position on free speech is. But I think most people would agree that generally that it's better if everyone can post something even if offends a minority group, than for every minority to be able to stifle the speech of the majority for arbitrary reasons until pretty much no one can posts about anything. How do we determine if someone is genuinely offended or not? It's arbitrary and ambiguous and not a good rule. And I'm not sure you'd be consistent about your approach on that since what the "other" group was talking about was transexual stuff, which wasn't pleasant for me and other people to listen to. If you just say that the opinion of the LGBT group has by default more importance than the conservative Christian values group, (which let's be honest, you probably would), then you're just arbitrarily favouring one group over another. And I think most people would agree that codes of conduct on speech shouldn't be based on identity politics, but rather should be universal for everyone.

Also, it's impossible to derail ITT. It's a general topic for everything. People will not post in this ITT thread for a week and then complain because a couple people talked about politics in it. It's silly, really.
Tupsu

B1rd wrote:

Also, it's impossible to derail ITT. It's a general topic for everything. People will not post in this ITT thread for a week and then complain because a couple people talked about politics in it. It's silly, really.

B1rd wrote:

I wonder if it's quiet because you alienated half the userbase

hmm...
:)
B1rd

Tupsu wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Also, it's impossible to derail ITT. It's a general topic for everything. People will not post in this ITT thread for a week and then complain because a couple people talked about politics in it. It's silly, really.

B1rd wrote:

I wonder if it's quiet because you alienated half the userbase

hmm...
:)
Yes, by the mere act of posting something we're oppressing other people and stopping them posting about what they want to post about, exactly the same as banning people and deleting posts. Right. Impeccable logic.
abraker

B1rd wrote:

Also, it's impossible to derail ITT. It's a general topic for everything.
Feels like a challange.

Let's to turn this thread in a counting thread.
Alexkuzi
abraker is a furry lover! :oops:
DaddyCoolVipper

abraker wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Also, it's impossible to derail ITT. It's a general topic for everything.
Feels like a challange.

Let's to turn this thread in a counting thread.

Why would you pick the most boring possible subject for a derail? Kys
Alexkuzi
[lucky:1337]Nintendo Switch!!![/lucky:1337] HEY ABRAKER! You're A Furry lover!
abraker

DaddyCoolVipper wrote:

Why would you pick the most boring possible subject for a derail? Kys
death to ITT2

1
Alexkuzi

abraker wrote:

DaddyCoolVipper wrote:

Why would you pick the most boring possible subject for a derail? Kys
death to ITT2

1
O~O~O~O~O~O~O~O~O~O~O
Railey2

B1rd wrote:

Yes, by the mere act of posting something we're oppressing other people and stopping them posting about what they want to post about, exactly the same as banning people and deleting posts. Right. Impeccable logic.
Yeah, if you open a thread and see two pages of politics in a clearly heated discussion, the probability of you dropping a lighthearted comment inbetween is exactly the same as if you open a thread where everyone is just chatting away, light-heartedly. I don't think so.

Don't pretend like politics doesn't alienate a good part of the userbase, and I'm not arguing that we should stop going on about politics, but at least be honest here.


ANYWAY

I get it, you feel like you got treated unfairly, and maybe that is true or maybe it is not. I can't really tell, as I'm not willing to go on tuuba to check, but I can tell you one thing: Your attitude is off the fucking rails. That's what my post was mainly about, whether or not you were treated unfairly on tuuba, you CLEARLY have a lot to sort out regardless. If you ask me, you need to spend some more time with people and learn how to get along instead of reading questionable articles about macroeconomics and systems of governance.

I am sure that this issue was something that could have been figured out with some PMs (the right PMs), but instead you do this:

B1rd wrote:

I realise that IppE never cared about being consistent with his rules, all he wanted to do was white knight and "protect" the precious snowflakes you and Granger from the danger of memes and mockery because obviously you can't handle it. Although, obviously when you attack and insult Trash Boat, that's a different story because people don't like Trash Boat? You fucking hypocrite. Go back to your hole. IppE has degree of logical retardation on the level of feminists, and that's apparent from having discussions with him. He doesn't have the mental faculties needed to be in charge of anything.
Do you listen to yourself sometimes? Jesus Christ man.

Tuuba is just a small forum with people that try to get along, yeah? Meanwhile, this is what you have to say about it:

B1rd wrote:

To have well-functioning system of governance of any kind, it is essential to have impartiality as a corner stone, and this was not present in Tuuba.
I've said it before and I'm going to say it again: You're living in your own crazy world. Step out of it sometime, see that whoever you're talking to is a person as well. Sometimes they get annoyed, sometimes they lash out, and if you treat them well they will probably get along with you.

Not everything has to be seen through the lense of theoretical, detached and convoluted sociological theory. Just try to be a bit more normal, yeah?
abraker
b1rd should make his own forum
FuZ
2
Alexkuzi

abraker wrote:

b1rd should make his own forum
Abraker Is A Furry Lover confirmed!!! 8-)
B1rd

Railey2 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Yes, by the mere act of posting something we're oppressing other people and stopping them posting about what they want to post about, exactly the same as banning people and deleting posts. Right. Impeccable logic.
Yeah, if you open a thread and see two pages of politics in a clearly heated discussion, the probability of you dropping a lighthearted comment inbetween is exactly the same as if you open a thread where everyone is just chatting away, light-heartedly. I don't think so.

Don't pretend like politics doesn't alienate a good part of the userbase, and I'm not arguing that we should stop going on about politics, but at least be honest here.


ANYWAY

I get it, you feel like you got treated unfairly, and maybe that is true or maybe it is not. I can't really tell, as I'm not willing to go on tuuba to check, but I can tell you one thing: Your attitude is off the fucking rails. That's what my post was mainly about, whether or not you were treated unfairly on tuuba, you CLEARLY have a lot to sort out regardless. If you ask me, you need to spend some more time with people and learn how to get along instead of reading questionable articles about macroeconomics and systems of governance.

I am sure that this issue was something that could have been figured out with some PMs (the right PMs), but instead you do this:

B1rd wrote:

I realise that IppE never cared about being consistent with his rules, all he wanted to do was white knight and "protect" the precious snowflakes you and Granger from the danger of memes and mockery because obviously you can't handle it. Although, obviously when you attack and insult Trash Boat, that's a different story because people don't like Trash Boat? You fucking hypocrite. Go back to your hole. IppE has degree of logical retardation on the level of feminists, and that's apparent from having discussions with him. He doesn't have the mental faculties needed to be in charge of anything.
Do you listen to yourself sometimes? Jesus Christ man.

Tuuba is just a small forum with people that try to get along, yeah? Meanwhile, this is what you have to say about it:

B1rd wrote:

To have well-functioning system of governance of any kind, it is essential to have impartiality as a corner stone, and this was not present in Tuuba.
I've said it before and I'm going to say it again: You're living in your own crazy world. Step out of it sometime, see that whoever you're talking to is a person as well. Sometimes they get annoyed, sometimes they lash out, and if you treat them well they will probably get along with you.

Not everything has to be seen through the lense of theoretical, detached and convoluted sociological theory. Just try to be a bit more normal, yeah?
Well people are certainly capable of ignoring certain posts and in Tuuba there was definitely occasions with two or more separate discussions going on in one thread. To be honest, I'm not sure if people unable to master this skill are people I care about preventing being alienated. But regardless, political discussions are few and far between and they're not stopping people from shitposting for 90% of the time. And the thing with the Tuuba community is you didn't have such a big dichotomy between shitposters/social posters and abstract economic theory posters (and that's really giving credit to the discussions we have here). We could actually have conversations about relevant and meaningful facets of daily life and the discussion was more often on a midpoint of intellectual stimulation rather than being on one of the two extremes we have here.

I'm not crazy just because I'm slightly more preoccupied with abstract ideals than normal and actually use them to influence my day-to-day behaviour rather than keeping it at the ballot box. If anything, my experiences on Tuuba just show the necessity of a solid set of ideals. Take free speech: whenever there is talk about any complicated or controversial issues, a degree of conflict is unavoidable. Thus there must be a system in place that protects the speech of the minority from the majority, i.e. free speech, so that it doesn't quickly devolve into a tyranny of the majority where dissent is not tolerated. That is true for both society and a forum where you want to have a high standard of discussion. So I think abstract ideals have a very prominent role to play in making society, internet communities or whatever a better place. Of course you can argue specifics but that's a simplified overview. And really, for tyranny to flourish it's necessary for morality, ideals and philosophy to be corrupted or for there to be a lack of those things in the first place. And you may think I'm being melodramatic by constantly bringing up tyranny, but I'm not. What I said about the necessity of ideals to ward off tyranny is true and factual, and it was less than a century ago where tens of millions of people died because of tyranny. So no, I don't think it's wrong to be concerned about abstract things, or make a big deal over seemingly small things for the sake if ideals. Just read the Gulag Archipelago.

I also don't know how you can say it's normal for people to lash out and then demonise me for getting angry. Getting angry a year after the fact isn't the reason for the problem, and regardless if I ability to post constantly relies on my ability to butter other people up, then that's a place that I don't want to be in in the first place. And maybe I'm not human enough to be able to tell, but is basically getting ejected from a community you've been part of for a number of years not a cause for someone to be angry? Just think of it as me injecting some humanity in what would otherwise no doubt be a robotic and monotonous tone. No I'm not particularly extraverted or agreeable towards other people, but not everyone needs to be. Different personalities have different pros/cons. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. (and trust me I have plenty of things wrong with me, but it's not in regard to what we've been talking about.)

As a last note, I've been up for a while so my posting may be somewhat more incoherent than normal.
DaddyCoolVipper
go to sleep, it's 3AM!
Milkshake
listen birdie, I guess some people here already told you that but I think you're taking this incident far too personally. I can get why you were pissed your post was deleted, but you're blowing it out of proportions. you need to choose what to spend your energy on wisely. I know many people here have bad blood with you, but I'm saying this as I feel completely neutral- this could've ended in a happier, faster and easier way. apologizing and compromising over these kind of things doesn't mean you're going back on your word, it just means you're mature enough to understand that this is petty stuff to get so, so serious about. Tuuba in the end was founded to have a chill, small community of the "oldfags" (and some newer people as well of course) and of course that this kind of drama is bound to happen because everyone knows everyone, but mate, it's been a goddamn year- that's dragging it far too much.
Alexkuzi
OOH NO!
Tupsu

Milkshake wrote:

listen birdie, I guess some people here already told you that but I think you're taking this incident far too personally. I can get why you were pissed your post was deleted, but you're blowing it out of proportions. you need to choose what to spend your energy on wisely. I know many people here have bad blood with you, but I'm saying this as I feel completely neutral- this could've ended in a happier, faster and easier way. apologizing and compromising over these kind of things doesn't mean you're going back on your word, it just means you're mature enough to understand that this is petty stuff to get so, so serious about. Tuuba in the end was founded to have a chill, small community of the "oldfags" (and some newer people as well of course) and of course that this kind of drama is bound to happen because everyone knows everyone, but mate, it's been a goddamn year- that's dragging it far too much.
the funniest thing is all this was triggered by me just posting a link to the forums
I (and everyone else off tuuba as far as I can tell) really don't care about him to the degree he seems to think

anyway
3 :)
Cynplytholowazy
B1rd

Milkshake wrote:

listen birdie, I guess some people here already told you that but I think you're taking this incident far too personally. I can get why you were pissed your post was deleted, but you're blowing it out of proportions. you need to choose what to spend your energy on wisely. I know many people here have bad blood with you, but I'm saying this as I feel completely neutral- this could've ended in a happier, faster and easier way. apologizing and compromising over these kind of things doesn't mean you're going back on your word, it just means you're mature enough to understand that this is petty stuff to get so, so serious about. Tuuba in the end was founded to have a chill, small community of the "oldfags" (and some newer people as well of course) and of course that this kind of drama is bound to happen because everyone knows everyone, but mate, it's been a goddamn year- that's dragging it far too much.
Drama I can handle, but not being in a toxic environment where I have to self censor or get my posts deleted. You think going back on my word and me apologising for something I'm not sorry about would change anything? I doubt it. There is no reason why I'd want to go back, I have more freedom to post over here, no reason for me to go and suck up to people I don't like.

Basically, there are two things that need to happen before I'd post at Tuuba again:

-ITT would have to be for all content, and no content, such as political stuff, should be banned from there
-forum policy should be decided by votes, not by one guy (IppE) deciding whatever he wants himself
Aurani
Found Birb
Vuelo Eluko
didja miss me aurani
Aurani

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

didja miss me aurani
Milkshake

B1rd wrote:

Milkshake wrote:

listen birdie, I guess some people here already told you that but I think you're taking this incident far too personally. I can get why you were pissed your post was deleted, but you're blowing it out of proportions. you need to choose what to spend your energy on wisely. I know many people here have bad blood with you, but I'm saying this as I feel completely neutral- this could've ended in a happier, faster and easier way. apologizing and compromising over these kind of things doesn't mean you're going back on your word, it just means you're mature enough to understand that this is petty stuff to get so, so serious about. Tuuba in the end was founded to have a chill, small community of the "oldfags" (and some newer people as well of course) and of course that this kind of drama is bound to happen because everyone knows everyone, but mate, it's been a goddamn year- that's dragging it far too much.
Drama I can handle, but not being in a toxic environment where I have to self censor or get my posts deleted. You think going back on my word and me apologising for something I'm not sorry about would change anything? I doubt it. There is no reason why I'd want to go back, I have more freedom to post over here, no reason for me to go and suck up to people I don't like.

Basically, there are two things that need to happen before I'd post at Tuuba again:

-ITT would have to be for all content, and no content, such as political stuff, should be banned from there
-forum policy should be decided by votes, not by one guy (IppE) deciding whatever he wants himself
well, enjoy your time here then. I get your idea, but it's literally his forums, he's free to do whatever he wishes to do. whether people stay or not is up to them
abraker
clissic b1irb

4
B1rd

Milkshake wrote:

well, enjoy your time here then. I get your idea, but it's literally his forums, he's free to do whatever he wishes to do. whether people stay or not is up to them
If you actually wanted the forum to be run democratically then you could probably do it. Draw some analogies from unions. If you don't want to, then we have nothing to talk about.
Green Platinum
Are there any forums that are run democratically? Where they literally elect mods or admins.
B1rd
All I'm really talking about it have the users have a vote on forum rule and policy changes. It makes more sense on a forum with like less than 20 active users.
Milkshake

B1rd wrote:

Milkshake wrote:

well, enjoy your time here then. I get your idea, but it's literally his forums, he's free to do whatever he wishes to do. whether people stay or not is up to them
If you actually wanted the forum to be run democratically then you could probably do it. Draw some analogies from unions. If you don't want to, then we have nothing to talk about.
excuse me sir but literally what does your response have to do with what I wrote you


B1rd wrote:

All I'm really talking about it have the users have a vote on forum rule and policy changes. It makes more sense on a forum with like less than 20 active users.
okay yes, I agree on that idea as well but it throws me back to my initial point - his forums, his rules (and that means he can decide in what way they're agreed upon as well- all by himself or the whole userbase). if people disagree with the rules that were set or the way there were set, well, they are free to leave.
B1rd
Just because he can do whatever he wants, doesn't mean that's the best way to run a forum. With a small community and a small group of friends, you don't want one guy to strut around as overlord because he was the first one to get the server up and running. If a majority of the userbase wanted to decide things democratically, then do you think IppE would object to that? Maybe, I don't have a high opinion of him, but maybe not. That's why I brought up unions, because union members don't own the property of the businesses they lobby, yet they can get their way through negotiation and boycott.
DaddyCoolVipper

B1rd wrote:

All I'm really talking about it have the users have a vote on forum rule and policy changes. It makes more sense on a forum with like less than 20 active users.
cliques form even in smaller social groups tho, which would become voting blocs
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