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ITT 2: We post shit that is neither funny nor interesting

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Aurani
I still stand by my point that instead of life in prison and the death penalty, they should introduce torture - not because of the physical aspect of it, but the psychological. I'm quite positive the number of crimes would be significantly reduced were such a thing to be passed in law.

I know, I know, if mere death sentences pose such a problem in legality, this thing would be even more nightmarish, but as a concept it works just fine... it's just sad that general corruption and the very core of capitalism we practice in this day make it an impracticality and thus improbability, if not an impossibility.
DaddyCoolVipper

B1rd wrote:

The real question is, are there any crimes heinous enough to warrant the death penalty? The answer is yes. Leftists are too naive to realise that there are people who are evil and those sort of people deserve to die for their crimes. It's silly how you have mass murders in Scandinavian jails who can complain because they have a PS2 instead of a PS3 and only kids' games to play. That's not what justice is.

And yet they have the best prison system in the world, when talking about rates of re-offence for example.


Sometimes, solutions are counter-intuitive to your feelings.


Also, re: your video. Ok, Panzram was well and truly evil by the time he went on his crime spree. Execution still wouldn't be necessary, since as a prisoner, he'd therefore been removed from society. Just remember that when the death penalty is an option, many families of victims will seek it, for example, because they want retribution- which can be both very costly and dangerous.

Bonus: Panzram's backstory.


Born in East Grand Forks, Minnesota, the son of East Prussian immigrants Johann "John" and Matilda Panzram, Carl was raised on his family's farm with five siblings. In 1903, at the age of 12, he stole some cake, apples, and a revolver from a neighbor's home. Soon after, his parents sent him to the Minnesota State Training School. While there, he was repeatedly beaten, tortured, and raped by staff members in what attendees dubbed "The Painting House", because children would leave "painted" with bruises and blood. Panzram hated this place of torture so much that he decided to burn it down, and did so without detection.

In late 1905, Panzram was released from the school. By his teens, he was an alcoholic and was repeatedly in trouble with the authorities, often for burglary and theft. He ran away from home at the age of 14. He often traveled via train cars; he later claimed that on one train he was gang raped by a group of hobos.

In 1907, at the age of 15, after getting drunk in a saloon in Montana, Panzram enlisted in the U.S. Army. Shortly thereafter he was convicted of larceny and served a prison sentence from 1908 to 1910 at Fort Leavenworth's United States Disciplinary Barracks. Then-Secretary of War William Howard Taft approved the sentence. Panzram later claimed that any goodness left in him was smashed out during his Leavenworth imprisonment.


...So he had an abusive, awful childhood, exacerbated by the school and prison systems that he'd been to in his youth. A bit hard to see him as just some evil guy that deserves to be judged the same way as anyone else, considering how fucked up his entire life had been up to that point. This is the case for most people who do terrible things.
DaddyCoolVipper

Aurani wrote:

I still stand by my point that instead of life in prison and the death penalty, they should introduce torture - not because of the physical aspect of it, but the psychological. I'm quite positive the number of crimes would be significantly reduced were such a thing to be passed in law.

I know, I know, if mere death sentences pose such a problem in legality, this thing would be even more nightmarish, but as a concept it works just fine... it's just sad that general corruption and the very core of capitalism we practice in this day make it an impracticality and thus improbability, if not an impossibility.


I'm pretty sure that harsher punishments don't actually correlate with less crime, but that's for either of us to be bothered to research lol.


What does corruption and capitalism have to do with that though? I don't think most people would want torture to be integrated into the justice system, regardless of profit or corruption-driven motives. People have learned as a society that it's quite frankly unnecessary. See the backlash to the Guantanimo Bay torture for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanam ... mp#Torture
Railey2
I don't like the idea of criminals having it easy in prison either, but if that is what it takes to create the lowest rate of re-offenders and a healthy society, then maybe i should reconsider if my "sense of justice" is worth being pursued. In other words: If your sense of justice doesn't create any utilitarian value, it belongs on the historical garbage-dump, right next to witch-hunts, laws regarding bastards, the opression of women and everything else we got rid of to create a better life for everyone.
Aurani
That's rich coming from you, Mr. Hitler. =D
B1rd

DaddyCoolVipper wrote:

And yet they have the best prison system in the world, when talking about rates of re-offence for example.


Sometimes, solutions are counter-intuitive to your feelings.
So what. Correlation doesn't equal causation. Just because they do some things right, doesn't mean they do everything right. Whether it is good at reforming petty criminals it a moot point,what is cleat is that it is absolutely lacking in being able to deal justice when people have committed atrocities. How many people does someone have to kill, torture, rape and brutalise before 21 years of playing video games and relaxing in a holiday resort then release for good behaviour becomes insufficient?



..So he had an abusive, awful childhood, exacerbated by the school and prison systems that he'd been to in his youth. A bit hard to see him as just some evil guy that deserves to be judged the same way as anyone else, considering how fucked up his entire life had been up to that point. This is the case for most people who do terrible things.
No. Just because one guy has a sob story doesn't mean you can generalise it to mean that everyone who ever did something bad had a proportionately bad earlier life. You have people like him, then you have people like Elliot Rodger who had a perfectly good childhood but just brooded on some minor hardship and then did what they did. People have free will and it's not just all environmental determinism, I'd be willing to bet that serial killers have lives no harder than 1000 other people who managed to lead normal lives.


Railey2 wrote:

I don't like the idea of criminals having it easy in prison either, but if that is what it takes to create the lowest rate of re-offenders and a healthy society, then maybe i should reconsider if my "sense of justice" is worth being pursued. In other words: If your sense of justice doesn't create any utilitarian value, it belongs on the historical garbage-dump, right next to witch-hunts, laws regarding bastards, the opression of women and everything else we got rid of to create a better life for everyone.
In other words the "right side of history" fallacy.

By no means it it obvious that lack of capital punishment is what's best for society. Japan's prison has capital punishment and a harsh and punitive prison system. It also has some of the lowest crime rates in the world, even compared to Scandinavian countries. But would there be more utilitarian value in letting the convicted of the Nuremburg trials off on good behaviour?
DaddyCoolVipper
Does determinism scare you, B1rd?
B1rd
Does free will scare you?
Aurani

B1rd wrote:

Does a free willmarket scare you?
B1rd
Rurree
How is everyone's Halloween?
Railey2
@b1rd: Note that I didn't directly say what judicial system would be most beneficial for society (It's probably highly dependent on what sort of society you work with, although I do suspect that something close to the scandinavian system will work best for a society that is already very healthy).

The main point i was trying to make was that anything pertaining to a "sense of justice" is a non-argument and should be ignored. I don't give a crap about what people think is "fair", as that in itself can never be a valid line of reasoning. People thought it fair to burn people to death based on allegations of witchcraft, so there you go.

A more productive discussion can be achieved if justice as a concept is ignored, and everything is only talked about in terms of policy-dependent consequences.
DaddyCoolVipper

B1rd wrote:

Does free will scare you?
Not at all, it'd be quite nice to live in a world like that. Unfortunately, I'm not religious, so the concept of "libertarian free will" doesn't exactly match the objective reality that I live in.
B1rd
Nice strawman - my arguments are founded on "religion", whilst you conveniently forget to respond to all the arguments I put forth.

Your cultural marxism is showing through. Oh I'm sorry, "objective left-wing determinism". But no, humans are not putty that is infinitely malleable with social engineering. You may create a system which might influence people in a certain direction, but it's impossible to eliminate free will by changing environmental factors.
DaddyCoolVipper
What? You didn't put forward any arguments, lol.

B1rd wrote:

[
So what. Correlation doesn't equal causation. Just because they do some things right, doesn't mean they do everything right.

Elliot Rodger is an example of someone who reacted disproportionately to their life situation, which means that he chose to do so of his own will. People have free will and it's not just all environmental determinism

Would there be more utilitarian value in letting the convicted of the Nuremburg trials off on good behaviour?

Your post might as well have just said this^, which I'm happy to respond to.



I'm not saying Scandinavian prisons do "everything right", but they're objectively better at reforming criminals than a more punishment-oriented justice system, proven by statistics.

Elliot Rodger may have been mentally ill, he might've been raised badly, or gotten unlucky enough for his mental state to make sense (to him).

Explain how free will is even possible without the assistance of something non-physical? I'm pretty sure you could predict someone's future choices with 100% accuracy if you knew everything that had led up to that point in their life down to the atom, which means that they wouldn't be able to exercise free will without something non-physical like a soul.


I feel like people executed at the Nuremberg trials might've been disproportionately punished, actually. Plenty of psychological experiments since then have suggested that normal people will commit atrocities as long as an authority tells them to, it's human nature.


B1rd wrote:

Your cultural marxism is showing through. Oh I'm sorry, "objective left-wing determinism".

You spend too much time reading alt-right content, lol.
Green Platinum
This discussion has gone off the fucking rails lol
Meah
yes it has gone off but..

strawberry > pineapple they say
DaddyCoolVipper
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 4705545216

Nvm I think I found why B1rd is so pro-death penalty, LUL
Railey2

Green Platinum wrote:

This discussion has gone off the fucking rails lol
it always does when B1rd is involved, I wonder why
FuZ
every ot politics posters should get death penalty tbh
Tanzklaue
my best bud is gifting me her old mechanical keyboard she no longer needs.

i will become a god in this game when it arrives!
Milkshake
@Tanzklaue I don't know why but your remark reminds me of people who get really expensive tablets to "improve their art" lol
lol
did anyone else get fucked in the ass by hextracoin or bitpetite
Railey2

lol wrote:

did anyone else get fucked in the ass by hextracoin or bitpetite
bitpetite advertised themselves with the promise of a daily 4,5% return on your capital. If thats not the most obvious ponzi-scheme out there, then I don't know what is. All it takes is one look at their claims, and you know to stay away from it.

I don't know how you could be so stupid. Ponzi pulled that shit in the 1920s, and people today are still falling for the same trick, I don't know how anybody in their right mind could go for this.

YOU of all people with all your criminal energy, I'd expect you to be one of the guys behind bitpetite if anything. How did this even happen? Did you gamble that you could make your money back before they take it all and run?
Razzy

FuZ wrote:

every ot politics posters should get death penalty tbh
_handholding

Railey2 wrote:

Did you gamble that you could make your money back before they take it all and run?
A safer bet than investing in health insurance
Railey2
Oh god

Health insurance isn't about getting your money back. It's a deal you make, hoping that you WONT get more than your moneys worth back... because if you do, that will most likely mean that you got hit by a truck. You don't "invest" in health insurance hoping that it will "pay off", lmao.
_handholding
I can't tell if you knew I was joking or not
Endaris
Railey is ready for everything.
Or maybe he was hallucinating and thought you were Jordan or whoever would actually support that standpoint.
Green Platinum
I appreciate Railey taking offhand remarks seriously like that. Several times I have made serious enquires that were taken to be a joke only to be dismissed offhand.
abraker
invest in life insurance?

brb gonna buy some rope
lol

Railey2 wrote:

lol wrote:

did anyone else get fucked in the ass by hextracoin or bitpetite
bitpetite advertised themselves with the promise of a daily 4,5% return on your capital. If thats not the most obvious ponzi-scheme out there, then I don't know what is. All it takes is one look at their claims, and you know to stay away from it.

I don't know how you could be so stupid. Ponzi pulled that shit in the 1920s, and people today are still falling for the same trick, I don't know how anybody in their right mind could go for this.
i didnt lend to bitpetite but some of my group were 20k deep
CHILL ur shit pikey

Railey2 wrote:

YOU of all people with all your criminal energy, I'd expect you to be one of the guys behind bitpetite if anything. How did this even happen? Did you gamble that you could make your money back before they take it all and run?
This is basically what im doing with regalcoin and bcc, i am 35k deep in this bitch but bcc seems to be in for the long run so not worried

I have no doubt all my regalcoin money is gone its the dodgiest shit ive ever seen but i fucking love it
Tanzklaue

Milkshake wrote:

@Tanzklaue I don't know why but your remark reminds me of people who get really expensive tablets to "improve their art" lol
that would still be a better investment than a tablet for just osu.
Milkshake
I can't really disagree with that
Green Platinum
I upgraded to a tablet to improve my penis drawing during song breaks.
N0thingSpecial
I invest in potatos
silmarilen
I bought 250 mini green raptors when they were still available because i knew they would be removed from the loottable as soon as the halloween update was released. They increased from about 1.2g each to over 3g each. I wish i bought like 2k of them, but oh well.
DaddyCoolVipper
B1rd
Do you have something against Jordan Peterson?

https://youtu.be/GJJClhqGq_M?t=54m35s
abraker

N0thingSpecial wrote:

I invest in potatos
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