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ITT 2: We post shit that is neither funny nor interesting

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B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
How am I derailing? I was making the point that even if someone's methodology is incorrect, it may lead to a better outcome than someone who is technically correct, because often it takes into account a lot of other variables that are hard to cognize. Thus even if you refute someone's methodology it doesn't necessarily refute their claims. That is highly relevant to what you were saying, and considering you won't link to the source argument and instead give instructions that I have already said don't work, all I can do it argue in the abstract.

Calling someone a misogynists is just like calling someone a racist, a Nazi, a homophobe, a fascist, or any other buzzword pejoratives. It is not an argument, it is a conclusion. It does not adequately define what those words are in the context, it does not make a case for why a person is such a thing, and does not explain why that is a bad thing. It implies that a whole load of assumptions about the previously mentioned variables are true and self-evident, without actually presenting any argument why. Thus it's absolutely meaningless for debating with someone outside your ideological bubble. And rarely are those pejoratives even accurate in the first place.

And if you want to know why no argument ever reaches a conclusion, it's because you always derail the topic with a tirade of off-topic ad hominems.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
well, if you want the context of me and silmarilen calling Jordan a misogynist (and trust me, I really don't like using the word because it's been tainted so badly over the last years, but it really does fit to describe him), feel free to read up to Jordans history and the argument that happened about 7 months ago in ITT. For that, start on this page: t/145250/start=42225 The whole thing goes on for about 6 pages maybe? It's pretty long.


"Thus even if you refute someone's methodology it doesn't necessarily refute their claims."

This is just my initial statement (the example with A and B), taken in the opposite direction. All I've been saying this time is that the methodologies validity isn't necessarily tied to the validity of the conclusion. If you went through all of this trouble just to rephrase a facet of my initial statement, feel free to stop now.

I mostly agree with Jordan's conclusion as it is now. But he still doesn't have the right to be like "aha I told you so", because his methodology is garbage and the only reason why he got it right this time was pure chance. Just how A happened to be right when something bad happened to B.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
You're still not understanding my argument. Even if you understand the face logic behind how someone arrives at their conclusion, it doesn't mean that their method isn't a good tool for arriving at correct conclusions. When you talk about rain gods you have to realise that it's just a blatant strawman of people that you disagree with without giving their point of view a fair go, which is nothing but the hubris of a pseudo-intellectual. That's why I countered with the example of ancient Israel, if you were in that time, you might say "hah your God doesn't exist" so I will eat all the pork I want. And then die of a parasitical infection. Because like then, there is phenomena outside of our perception that influences behind how the world works, and if you want any real insight, it requires detailed analysis of the world. Not painting with a broad ideological brush and marking anyone you disagree with as a problematic and irrational group. So when you have a situation like this, where you side with the women, and Jordan sides with the man, and he turns out to be right, you can at least have the humility of admitting that his point of view might have some validity instead of dismissing him being right as just "blind luck".

Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
He turned out to be right based on evidence that didn't appear until up to 6 months later, it totally could have gone both ways before that.

Look, I get your point I really do. There might be something I'm missing, neither of us is omniscient, maybe Jordan just happens to have intuitively grasped some minor detail and then subconsciously processed it to come to a conclusion that just looks like he's a blatant misogynist, but in the end he did have a crushingly greater chance of guessing the correct outcome. Maybe there was a metaphorical parasite in the meat that none of us could have spotted, but years and years of Jordan dealing with "crazy bitches" just made him amazing at spotting them without really knowing how he does it.


Sounds far-fetched? Because it is. And I'm not buying it for one second. Go ahead and call it arrogance, call it hubris, but I don't really care. If you think that there's some phenomenon outside of my perception that I could have missed, bring it up. Otherwise, I don't have much reason to listen to your objection. The tricky thing about your objection is, that you could apply it to any argument really. If your point is that I should be more humble... then that's fair enough. I could use some humility, sometimes. But trust me, in some cases it really isn't warranted. Certainly not in this case.

We all know that Jordan is a bit of an idiot, and it's no coincidence that he met so many "crazy bitches" before. It's been him along. Cue the argument 7 months ago.


Oh, and I'm aware that the rain gods are a "straw man". I used such a strong example to get the point about the relatedness of conclusion and methodology across as clearly as possible. Jordans case isn't nearly as extreme as the case of the rain gods, and I would never claim that it is. Think of it as an illustrative explanation, not a straw man - it certainly wasn't intended to be one (and it isn't, if you only read it as an example that's trying to clear up a point).
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Let's be clear here, my example wasn't about tiny details that one might miss, but complete blindness of self-evident realities due to ideology and our inherently limited perspective of the world. It's the same reason why Russian prisoners in the Gulag can get arrested on a pretense and still go on praising the Stalin and the revolution. In the same way, you can't seem to accept any alternative outside of a one-in-a-million event other than that Jordan was an irrational misogynist, and it was only luck that he was right. Jordan was totally right from the get go, obviously WWW's girlfriend had mental issues and wasn't a suitable girlfriend. You go full numale and try to defend her but obviously Jordan had more insight into women with personalities like her than you. That is my conclusion.

Your problem is that you think you're a genius who can determine everything someone believes and how they arrived at their beliefs from a few forum posts. If anyone disagrees with you you will quickly create a contrived explanation of why they believe what they do, e.g. "he's a misogynist because he felt threatened by women growing up" or something, and then use that as a reason why you don't have to take any of their arguments seriously.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

B1rd wrote:

If anyone disagrees with you you will quickly create a contrived explanation of why they believe what they do, e.g. "he's a misogynist because he felt threatened by women growing up" or something, and then use that as a reason why you don't have to take any of their arguments seriously.
What? You just pulled that out of your ass, I never wrote anything about why became the way it is, that would be presumptuous and there are way too many possible reasons anyway. You just made that up. Don't talk about me making ad hominems and then hit me with this crap one post later.

B1rd wrote:

Your problem is that you think you're a genius who can determine everything someone believes and how they arrived at their beliefs from a few forum posts.
And you don't even see the irony of that statement. Thanks for this concise assessment, Dr. Freud.

Fuck me, this is a waste of time.
Now excuse me please, I'll have to go back to my gulag. Stalin wills it.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
also can we maybe stop this? i know the thread is about things neither funny nor interesting, but we don't have to take it to ridiculous extremes.
Aurani
762 posts
Joined January 2013
Aurani

Tanzklaue wrote:

also can we maybe stop this? i know the thread is about things neither funny nor interesting, but we don't have to take it to ridiculous extremes.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Railey2 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

If anyone disagrees with you you will quickly create a contrived explanation of why they believe what they do, e.g. "he's a misogynist because he felt threatened by women growing up" or something, and then use that as a reason why you don't have to take any of their arguments seriously.
What? You just pulled that out of your ass, I never wrote anything about why became the way it is, that would be presumptuous and there are way too many possible reasons anyway. You just made that up. Don't talk about me making ad hominems and then hit me with this crap one post later.

B1rd wrote:

Your problem is that you think you're a genius who can determine everything someone believes and how they arrived at their beliefs from a few forum posts.
And you don't even see the irony of that statement. Thanks for this concise assessment, Dr. Freud.

Fuck me, this is a waste of time.
Now excuse me please, I'll have to go back to my gulag. Stalin wills it.
And as always, you get all huffy and tap out.
Milkshake
532 posts
Joined August 2011
Milkshake
Jordan what the hell did you do
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2

B1rd wrote:

And as always, you get all huffy and tap out.
You can't seem to accept any alternative outside of a one-in-a-million event other than that I am just huffy, and its only because I can't stand up to your supreme arguments that I'm tapping out. It's the same reason why Russian prisoners in the Gulag can get arrested on a pretense and still go on praising the Stalin and the revolution.

Your problem is that you think you're a genius who can determine the exact reason why someone would rather shoot themselves than continue talking to you, and how they arrived at this shocking conclusion from a few forum posts.


Does it please you to be a contrarian against self-evident logic? Do you fancy yourself a defender of Jordan against evil elitists with their intellectual arguments and reasoning?
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
or like continue arguing and feeding into each others pointless rage, i'm jsut gonna ask milkshake how her bambus is doing.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
I'm not raging, I'm just taking the piss at this point
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Tanzklaue wrote:

or like continue arguing and feeding into each others pointless rage, i'm jsut gonna ask milkshake how her bambus is doing.
Railey is the only one raging. I was just engaging in dialogue. Some people obviously can't stand the heat so they need to get out of the kitchen.
Aurani
762 posts
Joined January 2013
Aurani
You do realise you two have been doing nothing but hurling ad hominems at each other for the past 3 or 4 discussions? :V
At this point it doesn't matter who was right or wrong - you're just two bickering lovers. Kiss already.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
as a certified internet priest i hereby declare you husband and wife.

railey, you may kiss your sworn partner for life now.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
What will Maho say about this when he comes back, I wonder...
Jordan
1,037 posts
Joined December 2010
Jordan
LMAOOOOOO i just read the last 3-4 pages of this thread

ColdTooth
1,100 posts
Joined June 2012
ColdTooth

Endaris wrote:

What will Maho say about this when he comes back, I wonder...

tbh i miss him on here, he was generally cool
bojii
Former osu!mania 7K Champion: 2023
122 posts
Joined April 2017
bojii
when u wanna read all but yu dont give a flying **** to go to the latest ones
Softwarm
53 posts
Joined April 2014
Softwarm

B1rd wrote:

Railey2 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

If anyone disagrees with you you will quickly create a contrived explanation of why they believe what they do, e.g. "he's a misogynist because he felt threatened by women growing up" or something, and then use that as a reason why you don't have to take any of their arguments seriously.
What? You just pulled that out of your ass, I never wrote anything about why became the way it is, that would be presumptuous and there are way too many possible reasons anyway. You just made that up. Don't talk about me making ad hominems and then hit me with this crap one post later.

B1rd wrote:

Your problem is that you think you're a genius who can determine everything someone believes and how they arrived at their beliefs from a few forum posts.
And you don't even see the irony of that statement. Thanks for this concise assessment, Dr. Freud.

Fuck me, this is a waste of time.
Now excuse me please, I'll have to go back to my gulag. Stalin wills it.


And as always, you get all huffy and tap out.



Is that really a bad thing though?
DeletedUser_6709840
DeletedUser_6709840
Holy shit i missed a lot
Razzy
256 posts
Joined January 2016
Razzy
don't worry, things haven't changed here one single bit

it's still as terrible as ever
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Raspberriel wrote:

don't worry, things haven't changed here one single bit

it's still as terrible as ever
3 months ago was different
Razzy
256 posts
Joined January 2016
Razzy

abraker wrote:

Raspberriel wrote:

don't worry, things haven't changed here one single bit

it's still as terrible as ever
3 months ago was different
this thread, I mean
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Brisk Clarity wrote:

Is that really a bad thing though?
It is when you have what amounts to a tantrum.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
Ok mr. "you not agreeing with me means that you are blind to reality in the same way a russian patriot in a gulag is blind to reality."
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
"I'm going to compare Jordan to rain-god worshipers"
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
So what? I explicitly said that I used that example to illustrate a point (separation of methodology and outcome), while also explicitly staring that Jordans case is much less severe. Fuck off with your strawmans, you're probably even doing this on purpose at this point.
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
holy shit
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
I guess you can't comprehend that someone might use an extreme example to illustrate a point, even when you used the same technique yourself.
Railey2
512 posts
Joined February 2015
Railey2
Clearly that was what you did, as evident by the moderate paragrahps you followed that "illustration" up with. How about you stop flinging shit b1rd, i really didnt want to revisit this discussion, especially not with the likes of you.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
You're the one who's been flinging shit, as you always do because you don't have the emotional maturity to engage with an opposing viewpoint without degrading into petty insults. If you want to stop talking about something, you can just stop posting like everyone else does.
Aurani
762 posts
Joined January 2013
Aurani

Railey2 wrote:

B1rd wrote:

If anyone disagrees with you you will quicKly create a contrived explanation of why they believe what they do, e.g. "he's a misogynist because he felt threatened by women growing up" or somethIng, and then use that as a reason why you don't have to take any of their arguments seriously.
What? You just pulled that out of your aSS, I never wrote anything about why becaMe the way it is, that would be presumptuous and there are way too many possible reasons anyway. You just made that up. Don't talk about me making ad hominEms and then hit me with this crap one post later.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
lol
145 posts
Joined November 2014
lol
i check this thread every few days and every few days its a little bit more cancer
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

Tanzklaue wrote:


Meah
733 posts
Joined November 2014
Meah
and they don't stop cumming
UnderminE
osu! Alumni
4,011 posts
Joined August 2010
UnderminE
It's 3 am and I remembered that Aeidxst was once a part of this forum, feeling nostalgic enough

So hey
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