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posted
Can someone sum up what we agreed so far? Did SG update the OP or something? Please, anyone? :D
posted

Flower wrote:

Megurine Luka wrote:

No please ;w; I can't read Gwoyeu Romatzyh

And I'm sure most Chinese don't use them and more than half of Chinese people don't know this stuff ;w;
--Just confirming this, that Pinyin is the most widely used Romanisation system. Wade-Giles is a bit less popular, however hardly anyone uses Gwoyeu Romatzyh among the mainstream.
Fact: it's also used by teachers who teach Chinese, so...

--Another question is: What if there is transliterated words in the Chinese song name? For example:
有钱的狗 - 沙发

Is it "You Qian De Gou - Sha Fa", or "You Qian De Gou - Sofa"?

In that case, if the person who maps the song knows that it's a transliterated word, it should be the original word. In that case, sofa.

--Also. If there is expletive, should it be in lower case? Example:
郭采洁 - 我的未来式

Should it be "Guo Caijie - Wo De Wei Lai Shi" or "Guo Cai Jie - Wo de Wei Lai Shi"?

I don't get it in its fullest so I will skip that one for now

--Last question. When several characters form a word, should them be written together? Example:
林依晨 - 孤单北半球

Should it be "Lin Yichen - Gu Dan Bei Ban Qiu" or "Lin Yichen - Gudan Beibanqiu"? Or maybe "Lin Yichen - GuDan BeiBanQiu"?

If they form a word, the best way would be to make a differentiation. I had no trouble at all attributing a syllable to a character. The third option looks weird honestly (although used in some places - I think Chinese cubing manufactures use that for their cube names)

Details see https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/145553
errrr... Not everybody knows how to Chinese, lol.
posted
See the discussion here: t/145553
The most preferred use is pinyin, but there is no official system for pinyin. "character-based conversion" and "word-based conversion" are mostly used.
My suggestion: If there can be 3 or more words after word-based conversion, then use word-based conversion, else use character-based conversion. This is to make the conversion clear to understand.
Example:
一一二: Yi Yi Er
一一二二: Yi Yi Er Er
一一二二三三: Yiyi Erer Sansan
Zui Xuan Min Zu Feng O
Zuixuan Minzufeng X
Zhe Yang De Bai Fu Mei Zen Me Ke Yi Na Lai Gui Chu X
Zheyang De Baifumei Zenme Keyi Nalai Guichu O
posted
Put something i have written in p/2506832
@Popner, I think your choice seems fine generally, but there is still something could be discussed
For example, 我们的爱, "我们" is a word, "的" is a structural auxiliary word, "爱" is a word, too
So it should be spelled as "Women De Ai" in your way
But "Women"("我们") has different meaning between english and chinese ("women" means ladies, while "我们" means we)
Also it can't be easier to understand then "Wo Men De Ai"
So here is my suggestion:
If there is more than 5 characters, then use word-based conversion, else use character-based conversion.
Example:
一一一二二二: Yiyiyi Ererer
Feifange Zhi Ye X
Fei Fan Ge Zhi Ye O
Zhuanjiao Yudao Ai X
Zhuan Jiao Yu Dao Ai O
Ruguo Zhishi Ruguo O
Ru Guo Zhi Shi Ru Guo X
posted

SapphireGhost wrote:

Chinese, Japanese and Korean titles must be romanised and not translated unless a translated title is officially provided. Foreign words in titles should be romanised to the original language instead.
Chinese Example: GhostFinal - 感谢
O Gan Xie
Well I don't think this is thr right spelling.
China government has issued relevant standard about Chinese spelling, 《汉语拼音正词法基本规则》(国家标准) GB/T 16159-2012 (Chinese Pinyin Spelling Fundamental Rules )(Rules for short in the following) It could be checked here http://baike.baidu.com/view/2292589.htm (Chinese version only)
In general, the spelling is divided by word, not a single character. (Just as Japanese, I think it could be easyly understood.)
The following is the right spelling according to Rules
感谢
Ganxie
Note: This is a word, so it cannot be divided into 2 parts.

I confirmly believe this plan is correct. But I don't know how to let more people know it... :(
posted

OniJAM wrote:

Feifange Zhi Ye X
Fei Fan Ge Zhi Ye O
I believe a cantonese based song would be romanized in cantonese, unless the translation is officially done.

Cantonese has a widely accepted standard to be romanized.

The correct one should be:

非(Fei) 凡(Fan) 哥(Go) 之(Tsz) 夜(Ye)

(Note that for Cantonese we don't stick the characters as well)

And also note that Cantonese romanization is not even unique officially. There are a few widely used system for it. For instance, the character 之 has 2 versions of romanizations officially: chi, tze are both used.

Meanwhile, these official romanization is basically for academic use because romanization of cantonese is not popular in daily use (we use English instead, if necessary). The common way of romanizating characters is also different from that of the official way:

非(Fei) 凡(Fan) 哥(Gor) 之(Ji) 夜(Ye)

Is a romanization that can be realized by non-Cantonese speaking ppl, and even for Cantonese-speaking ppl. (If we use "Fei Fan Go Tsz Ye" I bet they need a few seconds to understand what is that, but the second romanization is much straightforward).
posted
提几个问题。
"这样秀恩爱是不对滴"当中
"恩爱"应写作"Enai"还是"En'ai"?
"不对滴"应写作"Buduidi"还是"Budui Di"
"滴"可以考虑做"的"的变音,但是"不对滴"应该被看做一个词还是两个词?

Some questions.
In the title of "这样秀恩爱是不对滴"
Should "恩爱" be spelt as "Enai" or "En'ai" ?
Should "不对滴" be spelt as "Buduidi" or "Budui Di" ?
As we know "滴" is considered as another form of "的" , but should "不对滴" considered as ONE word or TWO ?


(这货英语痴,错误什么的请原谅w)
posted

Loctav wrote:

Can someone sum up what we agreed so far? Did SG update the OP or something? Please, anyone? :D
posted
What system have all the previous Chinese maps used thus far? We may as well just use that, since it seems to work.
posted

Mintong wrote:

you can't write ü at romanisation title right?
Maybe we can use 'v' to romanise it. Like “绿" :' Lv ' As a matter of fact we have ranked map use it. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/16029 'Nv' but not 'Nü'

wmfchris wrote:

I believe a cantonese based song would be romanized in cantonese, unless the translation is officially done.
I agree that.

wmfchris wrote:

The correct one should be:
非(Fei) 凡(Fan) 哥(Go) 之(Tsz) 夜(Ye)

(Note that for Cantonese we don't stick the characters as well)

And also note that Cantonese romanization is not even unique officially. There are a few widely used system for it. For instance, the character 之 has 2 versions of romanizations officially: chi, tze are both used.

Meanwhile, these official romanization is basically for academic use because romanization of cantonese is not popular in daily use (we use English instead, if necessary). The common way of romanizating characters is also different from that of the official way:

非(Fei) 凡(Fan) 哥(Gor) 之(Ji) 夜(Ye)

Is a romanization that can be realized by non-Cantonese speaking ppl, and even for Cantonese-speaking ppl. (If we use "Fei Fan Go Tsz Ye" I bet they need a few seconds to understand what is that, but the second romanization is much straightforward).
For this one because I know little about Cantonese so I am on the fence. Still most of ppl around us know the song as" Fei Fan Ge Zhi Ye". After all we can find no official things in the song. Just mixed by someone.

linka_Happy wrote:

提几个问题。
"这样秀恩爱是不对滴"当中
"恩爱"应写作"Enai"还是"En'ai"?
"不对滴"应写作"Buduidi"还是"Budui Di"
"滴"可以考虑做"的"的变音,但是"不对滴"应该被看做一个词还是两个词?

Some questions.
In the title of "这样秀恩爱是不对滴"
Should "恩爱" be spelt as "Enai" or "En'ai" ?
Should "不对滴" be spelt as "Buduidi" or "Budui Di" ?
As we know "滴" is considered as another form of "的" , but should "不对滴" considered as ONE word or TWO ?
'Zhe Yang Xiu En Ai Shi Bu Dui Di' should be fine.

And~~~~ (A sum up?)
Pinyin has been accepted and welcomed in ranked maps. We can just continue it.
Example:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/89673

Cantonese can be used if the song is obviously based on Cantonese, or officially the song is regarded as Cantonese. In fact in this point I don't want to differ Cantonese from Chinese too much. All Chinese.

But if the Artist or the music is named in other languages, we need to use the official name. Especially here we need to share more with non-Chinese speakers and using the artist's English name would be a easier access to the singer or artist. But if the title is not officially translated I'd prefer use Pinyin because we cannot make sure the translation can be accepted by ppl or even whether it is accurate.
Example:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39801

Hmm.. That's maybe all the cases I think. If you can't find the solution in a situation we can continue the discussion. Also feel free to pm me for this.
posted
And.. I think differing a word in Chinese is not so easy. Some words are still under discussion. For a safer usage I'd prefer not use words like
我们的爱 ' Women de Ai', but ' Wo Men De Ai'. That will make less error usage. Just personally speaking.
posted
Let's sum up for this:

For Chinese song titles, every character should be romanised into a single, capitalised, separated word.
凤凰传奇 - 最炫民族风
Zui Xuan Min Zu Feng O
ZuiXuanMinZuFeng X
ZuiXuan MinZuFeng X
zui xuan min zu feng X
Zuixuanminzufeng X
Zuixuan Minzu Feng X
If there are transliterated words in the title, the romanised title should use original word.
有钱的狗 - 沙发
Sofa O
Sha Fa X

The second one is still not well discussed... So it needs to be discussed

About another question:

Touhou songs. Their name always switch from romaji to direct translation, e.g.

Demetori - 感情の魔天楼 ~ World's End
Which one is correct?
Kanjou no Matenrou ~ World's End
Emotional Skyscraper ~ World's End

Or:
ZUN - 黒い海に紅く ~ Legendary Fish
Which one is correct?
Kuroi Umi ni Akaku ~ Legendary Fish
Crimson in the Black Sea ~ Legendary Fish

The first one is confusing because the original song's name is bit different, as "感情の天楼 ~ Cosmic Mind"
About the second one, the former translation is ok so far to me, but there seems to be no official translation on the Internet, so it needs to be negotiated.
posted
Here's a question.

Romanising abbreviated words.

First an example:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/53857

Title:リモコン
Romanised Title:Remote Control

According to the rule on the first post. All foreign words are to be written in their original language. So something like アイスクリーム is to be written as Ice Cream.

So what do we do with abbreviations? Obviously looking at a dictionary, Rimokon means Remote Control, but what do we use as the title? The literal romanisation or the source language word it is abbreviated from?

ロープレ = Ropure or Roleplay
トイレ = Toire or Toilet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_a ... cted_words
More examples on this wiki page.

Some more examples. I'd just like some clarification on this. thanks :)
posted
By the way, トイレ is not an abbreviation!
posted

KSHR wrote:

By the way, トイレ is not an abbreviation!
I think I'm getting contractions and abbreviations messed up, and what shortened words for Japanese are actually them. I was going by my dictionary when I was looking up all this stuff X_x




So to rewrite this. What do we do about Contractions/Abbreviations. Use the Contracted/Abbreviated shortened form or use the original word it was made from?
posted
Just adding a reference for Japanese Romanisation: Romanization of Japanese

And what we've discussed and summarized in Chinese Romanisation:

Flower wrote:

For Chinese song titles, every character should be romanised into a single, capitalised, separated word.
If there are transliterated words in the title, the romanised title should use original word.
posted
Discussion seems to have stopped here, yet strides were being made. Giving this one more week of discussion. Depending on the outcome, I'll either bubble or flame.
posted
As a Korean I think Korean titles must be translated. Romanization has a lot of difficulty, EVEN FOR KOREANS, to search the certain song.
And also it looks much better and clearer... Look at this

SapphireGhost wrote:

Korean Example: 싸이 - 젠틀맨
O GENTLEMAN
X jenteulmaen
Who would search gentleman as 'jenteulmaen'? This is pretty much messed up, and actually has pronunciation difference with real Korean.

so in conclusion; Using translated titles for Korean titles has much more accuracy and convenience than using romanized ones. If there isn't official English title, I think it must be translated.
posted
For Korean titles, "minimizing romanization and using translated version when possible" is what I think.

There are two big reasons

1. Acquiring official translated titles is difficult.
There are several genres of Korean titled musics but even kpop, the highest proportion, has difficulty in earning an officially translated version of the title. Most can be earned via the official Youtube channel, but rarely in their official websites or albums. However even when it's unable to get an information of any source, cases exist when searching wikipedia or other sites come out with a translated title(not official, but "consistently" used).

For example a song titled "바람에 날리는 편지" officially only has a Korean title, but has a commonly used certain translated title.

Some may think if earning an official translated title is that hard, then why not just romanizing. However then another problem exists,

2. The pronounciation of romanized Korean slightly differs with the actual Korean.
As long as I know, Chinese and Japanese have a strong relationship with its romanized form when pronouncing, but Korean does not. As a result, even Koreans have trouble in understanding the romanized Korean, also in searching maps. Therefore, the better if we can avoid cases when we have to use romanized Korean.

Regarding Korean titles, I think the ranking criteria that is needed should be "Korean titles should follow the official romanization method of Korea ('국어의 로마자 표기법' 문화관광부 고시 제2000-8 호) when getting romanized" which has been violated at https://osu.ppy.sh/s/315307 only to get ranked because there were no correlated ranking criteria. Other than that would rather suit as a guideline imo such as the folowing.

Translated titles that are commonly used are recommended for Korean titles. Romanization for Korean titles are done only when there are no reputable source of any translated version.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

So up to here was my opinion, and I guess two agreements can be made along my post and the original thread.
  1. Using the translated title when it is officially provided.
  2. Forbidding arbitrary translation when there is totally no source.


Hope an agreement can be made about 'inofficially translated but commonly used titles'.
posted
With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.
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