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clayton wrote:<\/h4>to me the problem of \"tacked on\", \"abysmal\" lower diffs is mostly a direct result of requiring lower diffs via RC. low quality work is completely unsurprising coming from mappers who are simply not interested in creating those diffs, but must put in a minimum effort to rank the rest of their set. setting a higher bar for low diff mapping may help in that respect but would also further defeat how Ranked is intended to be used, with (presumably) even more charters abandoning Ranked.<\/blockquote>That is fair and I think that's more or less the same perspective that I have minus what we think the solution is. In hindsight, I do think that it's probably just better to remove a spread requirement completely than to force a stricter RC requirement for lower difficulties in particular. It makes even more sense given that ranking criteria for all levels have been at best, minimum quality standards<\/em>, and optimistically, just arbitrary rules to conform to that don't correspond to what makes for an acceptable map. I certainly wouldn't stop making lower difficulties if I were to get something ranked because I think it's important to ensure a large degree of accessibility for others, but it probably shouldn't be a requirement. Either way, my opinion on this is more or less neutral because I understand the need for catering towards mapper's intentions and how people would just half-ass something if they don't like the requirement, while also ensuring some level of accessibility to newer players. What you've said about lower-level difficulties being atrocious and them being unacceptable resonates with me, and I alluded to it in my post as well. Players who are new can still distinguish between accurate rhythm and non-accurate rhythm. They can still develop favourites for which patterns fit a song more through appropriate breaks between rhythms and proper attention given to the main rhythms of the song even if the rhythms are quite simple. Song choice is a large contributor to what makes maps appealing to people (especially newer players), but it's patronising to say that they don't care about anything but song choice.That said, and this is more targeted towards abraker, but I'm generally a bit worried that the maps that are targeted towards lower-level players would be homogeneous (80% of the maps you've linked have a rice to LN ratio of about 2:1 or 3:1, and the song choices aren't really the biggest variety either), but this is more of a community issue more than anything. It's something that I would like to see tested over a month or two to see what the lower-level content that's pushed for rank would be like under non-mandatory spread rules.I'll make one section specifically to Icy's post because there is a lot to dissect and there are a lot of things that I want to break down as someone else who has contributed a lot to the osu!mania mapping scene and someone who has been in various VSRG communities with different judging systems (and as a former FFR judge). I'm also spoilering this because I don't think it's really necessary to the topic:<\/span>icy<\/a>One of my biggest concerns when it comes to the Ranked section, like you said, is its general lack of definition of what it's supposed to be. If the ranked section is basically a section for mapsets that are \"solid and enjoyable\" as peppy said, then I believe that the spread criteria should go. You yourself have mentioned how much you would refuse to get something ranked if you personally \"didn't put your soul into the map\", and I think the spread criteria absolutely force you to put in effort into something that you don't want to invest your time into and you would not feel satisfied with it.That said, I also agree with you in that ranking criteria is also strictly unnecessary for things like this and it would be up to the discretion of the BNs themselves to judge whether the map would be appealing to players and potentially other mappers. In that sense, I think ranking criteria does what it does fine, because it is codified in a way that only enforces minimal standards of quality. There might be a few small rules that are arbitrary, but it's something that we, as a community, would have to look at in the future if spread criteria were removed. Most of the nitpicky rules are currently in spread guidelines if anything. I really do believe that nothing can ever be codified about charting because it's so intersubjective and abstract to begin with, and any attempt at it without a million disclaimers that it is merely one perspective of how charting should be is overreaching its boundaries and fails as an all-encompassing mapping codex.My only concern is that I feel that it is never good practice to tell people to get easy content from packs or mapsets that are extremely old or are meant for a different rhythm game. Charting styles greatly evolve over time, and even in a rhythm game with 4 columns, there are many different approaches to creating lower-level content. Charts made in 2007 will be very different from ones that are made in 2021, even if they are the same difficulty: charts like Reach's Blade or Cynic will be a rarity from a modern charter today. I feel that it is necessary to give newer players proper exposure to up-and-coming charting styles rather than have them get good enough to play newer content. I have a very slight concern about how most lower-level content would be made in a certain style if no spread requirement is necessary, but again this is something that I would like to see with my eyes if the spread criteria are lifted. And I'll obviously be participating in creating lower-level content myself.Regarding your suggestions about the ranked section though:- I generally disagree with having specific individuals being the sole arbiter of the entire process from beginning to end. This is also why I disagree with a batch system. I don't think that there should be a system with singular judges or even a small set of judges because I think the nomination\/judging process will always possess some sort of luck or bias when it comes to a mapset going in or not. On FFR at least, there have been many occasions where files have to be resubmitted because one judge thought that a chart was unacceptable (because of personal charting convictions) but the other judges think that it is completely acceptable as is. You can argue that this is due to a judge being incompetent, or that this would be avoided through a multi-judge system, but I think that judge assessment is never impartial and that a multiple-judge system is avoiding the root of the problem. This is also coming from someone who would fall under this role, and I am more than willing to say that I have specific biases against certain mapping styles to the point where I don't think I can judge them in good conscience.- I do believe that the BN system is probably the best way of curating maps to the ranked section at the moment, and I think your first suggestion is basically this but cutting out the middleperson of just asking a few people to nominate maps. My main concerns with the first suggestion being that it is much harder to verify mappers that could opt content into the ranked section than BNs and that I do think that some quality threshold still has to be met and there should be some third party verifier that the threshold has been met. The latter, of course, you can say that you can just strip a mapper's ability to opt ranked maps in if they no longer put in maps into the ranked section, but it's difficult to track that from an administrative standpoint.The BN system currently allows you to send your maps to specific BNs, who themselves will have certain preferences and in turn represent a specific mapping circle in the community. The BNs will then nominate maps if they like them, but their preferences are molded by the communities that they are in. The main thing that contrasts this system from FFR's judging system is that, instead of avoiding bias, the current BN ecosystem embraces<\/em> bias. This is also how pack organisers organise packs; even down to the action of modding\/going through a chart if the chart has potential to be accepted into a pack\/be put into the ranked section and rejecting it outright with no further comments if they don't believe that the set\/chart is satisfactory.There is, of course, an issue with allowing BNs to embrace that much bias in the ranked section, which is that it leads to a higher representation of maps from circles in which BNs are abundant. BNs can, of course, be asked to be less biased, but this would have to be codified in ranking criteria (which is very difficult, FFR doesn't have acceptability criteria for this reason) and that I don't think that it's ever a good idea to reduce bias in an uncontrolled environment. I do think that the better solution to this would be to have a more pluralistic idea of who can be a BN for the community by understanding what makes maps valuable to various communities and seeing if certain people can meet those criteria to nominate maps in the interests of those circles, but that's a different thread for a different time and is much easier said than done. Despite all of this, I prefer osu!'s system of nomination compared to any other rhythm game with an assessment system.<\/div><\/div><\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Last edited by Shoegazer<\/a> 2021-09-19T14:53:34+00:00<\/time>, edited 3 times in total.\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n DeletedUser_10235296\n <\/span>\n \n \n \n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n DeletedUser_10235296<\/span>\n\n \n 2021-09-24T04:51:36+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I don't believe there's anything to be lost in giving a change in spread rules a go. My opinion is that the these current timing parameters in place should be permanently loosened. However the main thing I would like to pull back to is a potential \"trial period\".Let's come to a consensus on whether this trial period would be either:1. The spread guideline times will be loosened for a period of time2. The spread guidelines are removed for a period of timeAgain, I think the former should be permanent, and what we really should be testing<\/em> is a complete removal but I digress. We can spin in circles on this for a while, but I think enough people have given their two cents that a decision can be made. Also, I should reiterate that I am personally suggesting these changes only to Mania<\/strong>. Considering Mania players are what make up the majority of this thread, I think if changes are to be made for other modes then discussions need to be had for those respective communities.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-24T05:26:55+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I'm all for removing spreads for a period of time as an experiment. I have no reason to believe the concerns people raised against spread removal are valid.Biggest concern is that people think mappers won't rank lower diffs. We see full spreads consisting of purely lower diffs being ranked with the spread requirement, so there should be no reason to believe lower difficulty diffs won't be ranked without spreads.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n UberFazz<\/a>\n\n \n Medal Hunter\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 162 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2016<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n UberFazz<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-24T17:04:09+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I agree with removing spread rules for a \"trial period\" as well for reasons already mentioned, but I disagree that it should happen only to mania. The rules are for all gamemodes and the mindset\/reasoning for everything applies to all gamemodes, even if to a lesser extent. We don't need discussions for each specific mode but instead need people from different gamemodes participating in this thread.I see no reason to only apply it to one gamemode when every gamemode can benefit from this (especially if it's only as a trial).<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n clayton<\/a>\n\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 1,828 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined November 2013<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n clayton<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T03:31:44+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n I also want all modes but seeing as this was made in context of mania-specific situation (mappers avoiding ranked & lots of influences from other vsrg) and shared\/discussed mostly among mania players , i think it should be forked to another all-modes thread first and decided separately<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n DeletedUser_10235296\n <\/span>\n \n \n \n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n DeletedUser_10235296<\/span>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T16:42:40+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n clayton wrote:<\/h4>I also want all modes but seeing as this was made in context of mania-specific situation (mappers avoiding ranked & lots of influences from other vsrg) and shared\/discussed mostly among mania players , i think it should be forked to another all-modes thread first and decided separately<\/blockquote>Clayton shares my sentiment on it too. I without a doubt believe it's beneficial for all modes to let go of the restraints, but given a lot of the discussion here stems from Mania I think it's really only comfortable for changes to be made there. UberFazz wrote:<\/h4>We don't need discussions for each specific mode but instead need people from different gamemodes participating in this thread<\/blockquote>I do kinda agree there, though that's up to preference. Abraker can change the topic name if that's possible to remove the mania subtag, but I think it makes more sense to just mirror the topic for respective modes. peppy mentioned<\/a> in discussions regarding these recent RC change proposals that he wants things to be generalized among all gamemodes which I would agree, but I think more needs to be said from all sides before we can do that. I also don't want to postpone changes happening for Mania until we can possibly do it for all modes so, I dunno just my two cents. If this all makes sense though then two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established, and two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T18:42:44+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>I do kinda agree there, though that's up to preference. Abraker can change the topic name if that's possible to remove the mania subtag, but I think it makes more sense to just mirror the topic for respective modes. peppy mentioned<\/a> in discussions regarding these recent RC change proposals that he wants things to be generalized among all gamemodes which I would agree, but I think more needs to be said from all sides before we can do that. I also don't want to postpone changes happening for Mania until we can possibly do it for all modes so, I dunno just my two cents.<\/blockquote>Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/blockquote>It's easier to make arguments why spreads do more harm than good in mania than in standard. Absolutely no idea how this applies to catch and taiko. As much as desire for homogeneity across gamemodes is, the communities surrounding different gamemodes have different takes on this situation.Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established<\/blockquote>Trial duration is what we want to figure out. Start time is as soon as the RC change is merged.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T20:31:11+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n All, I made a complementary thread to discuss how to go forward with this in other gamemodes community\/forums\/topics\/1427768<\/a>Whatever consensus is for other gamemodes, I'd preferably still want to see a trial period for mania.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n
clayton wrote:<\/h4>I also want all modes but seeing as this was made in context of mania-specific situation (mappers avoiding ranked & lots of influences from other vsrg) and shared\/discussed mostly among mania players , i think it should be forked to another all-modes thread first and decided separately<\/blockquote>Clayton shares my sentiment on it too. I without a doubt believe it's beneficial for all modes to let go of the restraints, but given a lot of the discussion here stems from Mania I think it's really only comfortable for changes to be made there. UberFazz wrote:<\/h4>We don't need discussions for each specific mode but instead need people from different gamemodes participating in this thread<\/blockquote>I do kinda agree there, though that's up to preference. Abraker can change the topic name if that's possible to remove the mania subtag, but I think it makes more sense to just mirror the topic for respective modes. peppy mentioned<\/a> in discussions regarding these recent RC change proposals that he wants things to be generalized among all gamemodes which I would agree, but I think more needs to be said from all sides before we can do that. I also don't want to postpone changes happening for Mania until we can possibly do it for all modes so, I dunno just my two cents. If this all makes sense though then two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established, and two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T18:42:44+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>I do kinda agree there, though that's up to preference. Abraker can change the topic name if that's possible to remove the mania subtag, but I think it makes more sense to just mirror the topic for respective modes. peppy mentioned<\/a> in discussions regarding these recent RC change proposals that he wants things to be generalized among all gamemodes which I would agree, but I think more needs to be said from all sides before we can do that. I also don't want to postpone changes happening for Mania until we can possibly do it for all modes so, I dunno just my two cents.<\/blockquote>Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/blockquote>It's easier to make arguments why spreads do more harm than good in mania than in standard. Absolutely no idea how this applies to catch and taiko. As much as desire for homogeneity across gamemodes is, the communities surrounding different gamemodes have different takes on this situation.Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established<\/blockquote>Trial duration is what we want to figure out. Start time is as soon as the RC change is merged.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T20:31:11+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n All, I made a complementary thread to discuss how to go forward with this in other gamemodes community\/forums\/topics\/1427768<\/a>Whatever consensus is for other gamemodes, I'd preferably still want to see a trial period for mania.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n
UberFazz wrote:<\/h4>We don't need discussions for each specific mode but instead need people from different gamemodes participating in this thread<\/blockquote>I do kinda agree there, though that's up to preference. Abraker can change the topic name if that's possible to remove the mania subtag, but I think it makes more sense to just mirror the topic for respective modes. peppy mentioned<\/a> in discussions regarding these recent RC change proposals that he wants things to be generalized among all gamemodes which I would agree, but I think more needs to be said from all sides before we can do that. I also don't want to postpone changes happening for Mania until we can possibly do it for all modes so, I dunno just my two cents. If this all makes sense though then two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established, and two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T18:42:44+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>I do kinda agree there, though that's up to preference. Abraker can change the topic name if that's possible to remove the mania subtag, but I think it makes more sense to just mirror the topic for respective modes. peppy mentioned<\/a> in discussions regarding these recent RC change proposals that he wants things to be generalized among all gamemodes which I would agree, but I think more needs to be said from all sides before we can do that. I also don't want to postpone changes happening for Mania until we can possibly do it for all modes so, I dunno just my two cents.<\/blockquote>Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/blockquote>It's easier to make arguments why spreads do more harm than good in mania than in standard. Absolutely no idea how this applies to catch and taiko. As much as desire for homogeneity across gamemodes is, the communities surrounding different gamemodes have different takes on this situation.Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established<\/blockquote>Trial duration is what we want to figure out. Start time is as soon as the RC change is merged.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T20:31:11+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n All, I made a complementary thread to discuss how to go forward with this in other gamemodes community\/forums\/topics\/1427768<\/a>Whatever consensus is for other gamemodes, I'd preferably still want to see a trial period for mania.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n
Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>I do kinda agree there, though that's up to preference. Abraker can change the topic name if that's possible to remove the mania subtag, but I think it makes more sense to just mirror the topic for respective modes. peppy mentioned<\/a> in discussions regarding these recent RC change proposals that he wants things to be generalized among all gamemodes which I would agree, but I think more needs to be said from all sides before we can do that. I also don't want to postpone changes happening for Mania until we can possibly do it for all modes so, I dunno just my two cents.<\/blockquote>Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/blockquote>It's easier to make arguments why spreads do more harm than good in mania than in standard. Absolutely no idea how this applies to catch and taiko. As much as desire for homogeneity across gamemodes is, the communities surrounding different gamemodes have different takes on this situation.Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established<\/blockquote>Trial duration is what we want to figure out. Start time is as soon as the RC change is merged.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T20:31:11+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n All, I made a complementary thread to discuss how to go forward with this in other gamemodes community\/forums\/topics\/1427768<\/a>Whatever consensus is for other gamemodes, I'd preferably still want to see a trial period for mania.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n
Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two new threads need to either be created for this topic for the respective modes or this one needs to be generalized and shared amongst the communities.<\/blockquote>It's easier to make arguments why spreads do more harm than good in mania than in standard. Absolutely no idea how this applies to catch and taiko. As much as desire for homogeneity across gamemodes is, the communities surrounding different gamemodes have different takes on this situation.Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established<\/blockquote>Trial duration is what we want to figure out. Start time is as soon as the RC change is merged.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T20:31:11+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n All, I made a complementary thread to discuss how to go forward with this in other gamemodes community\/forums\/topics\/1427768<\/a>Whatever consensus is for other gamemodes, I'd preferably still want to see a trial period for mania.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n
Penguinosity wrote:<\/h4>two things need to happen, for one this start and end time frame for this trial period needs to be established<\/blockquote>Trial duration is what we want to figure out. Start time is as soon as the RC change is merged.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n Global Moderator\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/a>\n\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n <\/span>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n \n \n \n 8,293 posts\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n\n \n Joined July 2014<\/strong>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n \n \n \n Topic Starter\n <\/span>\n <\/div>\n \n \n abraker<\/a>\n\n \n 2021-09-25T20:31:11+00:00<\/time>\n <\/a>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n All, I made a complementary thread to discuss how to go forward with this in other gamemodes community\/forums\/topics\/1427768<\/a>Whatever consensus is for other gamemodes, I'd preferably still want to see a trial period for mania.<\/div>\n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n\n \n \n std skin 2021<\/a>: link<\/a>\u2002\u2002|\u2002\u2002mania skin 2021<\/a>: (vanilla ver<\/a> ~ hidden ver<\/a>)<\/span>osu!Skills<\/u><\/strong><\/a> - Compare your skills in a slightly<\/em> different way<\/strong><\/span>OT!neus<\/span><\/strong><\/a> - osu off-topic subforum's very own discord server<\/strong><\/span><\/div>\n <\/div>\n \n <\/div>\n <\/div>\n