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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +3,784
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posted

Mayu Watanabe wrote:

baraatje123 wrote:

Oh, to those people saying it'll be UNranked, why can't you just use editor?
Why can't they just make a mod ?


Using the editor for each maps is pretty annoying
It's just boring. :roll:
posted
Well, this would certainly revive lot of the old ranked maps that just have the wrong AR (like ar7 4.5star 200bpm maps etc)
Generally allowing AR change in smaller numbers than what HR does would be good, I'd love to be able to bump all 140+bpm maps to ar9 and all 180+bpm maps to 9.5 instead of only having the option of either low AR or AR10(hr).
But I think it shouldn't give any score multiplier for increasing AR nor reduce for for lowering it.

For HP, while I would appreciate lowering HP on some of the maps I can't pass, there already is NF for that and that one is pretty well balanced (0.5 score and -10%pp). While often even 0.5HP can be the difference between passing and failing a map, it would essential do the same thing as NF - a binary pass or die scenario. So I'd say there is no need for that.

CS - allowing increase of CS would be good and it could even give a bit of extra score multiplier, lowering CS should be penalized a lot though, there are map that are mainly hard thanks to their CS so allowing getting top ranks on those by lowering CS would be bad.

OD - increase of OD has no point and should not award anything extra, it doesn't make anything more "comfortable" to play like the other stats. Lowering OD could be a thing but just like CS heavily penalized (or even unranked to avoid the free SS's)
posted

SteveRowland wrote:

But I think it shouldn't give any score multiplier for increasing AR nor reduce for for lowering it.
"I want a difficulty-reducing mod that doesn't lower my score." AR greatly affects how a map plays. If a map was made to be played on AR8 and you can't read it well enough to play it, you shouldn't be given the option to just change it. I've argued it at length in this thread. AR plays a huge factor in the aim component of the game.

Anyway, unranked would be great for that. Eliminates the need to have AR-changed versions of maps sitting around and makes spectating/multiplayer easier when trying to play them.

p.s. AR9 on 140bpm? What the heck is the current generation of players being raised on that AR9 is needed for something that slow?

For HP, while I would appreciate lowering HP on some of the maps I can't pass, there already is NF for that and that one is pretty well balanced (0.5 score and -10%pp). While often even 0.5HP can be the difference between passing and failing a map, it would essential do the same thing as NF - a binary pass or die scenario. So I'd say there is no need for that.
Agreed. Might be fun to play around with as an unranked thing (people could change Airman's drain to a reasonable number and see how hard it "should" be to pass!), but as a ranked mod, it should probably be equivalent to nofail and therefore pointless outside of extremely silly bragging purposes ("I didn't need nofail! I could pass the map just fine on hp0~~~").

CS - allowing increase of CS would be good and it could even give a bit of extra score multiplier, lowering CS should be penalized a lot though, there are map that are mainly hard thanks to their CS so allowing getting top ranks on those by lowering CS would be bad.
You kind of hit on the difficult thing about changing cs here - cs often determines how a map or how its hard parts play out. Some patterns that are difficult at the cs chosen for a map may become absolutely trivial if you lower the cs juuuuuust enough and penalizing properly is basically impossible with the way multipliers work now without intentionally overtuning. This brings back something I've said repeatedly in this thread - hard rock is a TERRIBLE mess of a mod, but it's okayish (and the game is probably better for its existence) because it's standardized. Either you play the map or you play a version of the map with a specific different circle size (and AR, OD, HP) for 1.06x the points. Take it or leave it. Implementing user-chosen CS opens up weird edge cases of trying to change CS to exactly the right value to just barely not ruin the map and I don't think that's a good thing for the game. A fun thing to play around with on an unranked mod (which is exactly what this should be), but a really silly thing imo to have as part of the competitive aspect of the game.

OD - increase of OD has no point and should not award anything extra, it doesn't make anything more "comfortable" to play like the other stats. Lowering OD could be a thing but just like CS heavily penalized (or even unranked to avoid the free SS's)
OD is the one that would probably make the most sense as a ranked mod since OD doesn't change how the map plays outside of notelock scenarios (or if your timing is so early or late that it causes you to miss notes), but it would be another balancing nightmare. If you increase the OD on an all-slider map, you've increased the difficulty by a trivial amount, for example. If you increase the OD on a really fast map, you might suddenly find it possible to pass due to decreased notelock. Overall, would, like the others, be best as an unranked mod.



In asking for this (or components of it) as a ranked mod, you're asking for a more messed-up version of hard rock, which is already a really messy mod that changes map settings in a way that's arbitrary relative to the map (not arbitrary relative to the map settings but you're playing the map, not its settings) in such a way that its difficulty boost is inconsistent enough to sometimes cause a map to be easier for players. I hope you understand just how crazy that is. A mod that would let you tune map settings to exact values you want would be so much worse. HR is only really palatable because either it's on or it isn't. Having a mod that would allow you to turn HR halfway on or to turn it on twice over or to have certain components of it on or anything in-between would be terrible. Needs to be unranked for sure.
posted
Why are you all struggling about those mods being ranked ? Man, who cares if it's not ?

Personnaly, I just believe that such an option should have been available in the game from the beginning. I don't want it to be ranked, there's just no need to it. I think that I, as well as all the other people who upvoted this request, just want an option to play custom difficulties without the need to create it by using the editor.

It's so annoying that we're not able to do it without having to go through all the editor process. Of course it's easy to do, still, it's only viable as a solo player. But then, what about multiplayer ? Parameters doesn't always fit what everyone's able to do... It always leads to a forced switch, which could have been avoided if the players were able to change parameters in mods. Making multiplayer enjoyable for everyone, not only for those who are experienced enough to play X beatmap. Of course we could practice, but sometimes you just want to have fun, here, now.

It wouldn't even bother beatmappers, neither break the rankings, it would just be pleasurable for everyone. :)

Once again, who cares if it's ranked or not ? Don't you all just want to have FUN ? You don't need PP when you have FUN. :D
posted

GhostFrog wrote:

p.s. AR9 on 140bpm? What the heck is the current generation of players being raised on that AR9 is needed for something that slow?
Quick reminder that AR9 is already considered unreadable by most players because of being too slow, at least 9.5 is required to be 'playable' now.
posted
Just want to add some reasons why such an option would be awesome.

1. Practice

You know, sometimes you just want to practice.

Though you may be able to do so by using mods such as HardRock or Easy, what would happen if you just want to practice a single parameter ? You only have two options : 1. Create custom difficulties; 2. Looking for maps with original settings that fits what you're searching for. Well, doesn't it sound very boring and/or limited ?

Wouldn't it be easier if you could just set it ON when you start practicing, then OFF when you're done ? Not only would it give you many more possibilities, but it would also grant you an amazing amount of time, that you wouldn't have to waste creating/deleting custom difficulties.

I think we can all agree that the editor doesn't stand to be used as a cheap practice mode. Making CS/HP/AR/OD toggle-able in mods would be a way better way to allow player to practice.


2. The option already exists but is way too much time-consuming

- Changing parameters can be done by using the editor
- Custom difficulties in multiplayer is done by sending a custom file to the whole room (though it doesn't allow players to chose what settings they want to play with)

As I said, everything is already merely available in-game. Still, it's time-consuming as hell, not very handy, and lacks possibilities.



^Dumb design, but that's what I have in mind. Would be toggle-able in the menu by clicking a gearwheel icon or whatever. :D
posted
Well I would be fine with it being unranked if it wasn't like the currently unranked mods - those (auto and relax) don't even show you your acc and stuff during the play, you can't see misses etc. And also I would like to have local leaderboards at least with this, just like unranked maps (edited to comfortable AR etc) do.
It really helps practice when you can see how much you are improving over your older results. So if you can make these things work with an unranked mode, I'd be fine with it since it would save me time going to editor to change these things and help with spectating etc.


OT:

GhostFrog wrote:

p.s. AR9 on 140bpm? What the heck is the current generation of players being raised on that AR9 is needed for something that slow?
I blame mappers :P When i started playing earlier this year, easy and normal difficulties were too easy while hard were too hard so I went with normal+HR and then soon switched to normal+HRDT which is for most normals ar9 (as their base is 5) xD And then I just kinda transitioned into insanes at ar9.
Only once you increase your collection of songs you start finding the old songs that have lower AR and are still good maps, but its already too late as if 99% of stuff you play is ar9, its just a mess and unfun to read anything lower, you are just not used to it. And yes practicing lower ARs might be good for you in the long run but when its just not fun, is it really worth it? So yeah, just have mappers put some difficulty between normal and hard so new people don't have to play HRDT and learn the bad habit of fast AR :P

And second reason... it's like really exciting playing higher ARs (explains the HR popularity.. that or people want free PP xD), maybe I like it higher as I come from long history of twitch shooters (which btw don't help you at all to become good at osu :() so I like putting my reflexes into the front lines. Unlike lower AR which tests your ability to read like when you read note sheets for playing instruments. Its like a completely different game for me playing low or high AR and I just really enjoy the high ones, that's all there is to it.

Blue Dragon wrote:

Quick reminder that AR9 is already considered unreadable by most players because of being too slow, at least 9.5 is required to be 'playable' now.
this guy gets it! Now I just hope mappers start putting 9.5 even for 4.5star insanes xD
posted

SteveRowland wrote:

Well I would be fine with it being unranked if it wasn't like the currently unranked mods - those (auto and relax) don't even show you your acc and stuff during the play, you can't see misses etc. And also I would like to have local leaderboards at least with this, just like unranked maps (edited to comfortable AR etc) do.
It really helps practice when you can see how much you are improving over your older results. So if you can make these things work with an unranked mode, I'd be fine with it since it would save me time going to editor to change these things and help with spectating etc.
Would make sense, indeed (even though imo Relax & Auto-pilot are no good practice mods, or at least Relax is but the second isn't...).
That topic's already being discussed here : Autopilot/Relax saved in local scores

Blue Dragon wrote:

Quick reminder that AR9 is already considered unreadable by most players because of being too slow, at least 9.5 is required to be 'playable' now.
Depends on the person, I guess. Some people like lower ARs, gameplay isn't even the same depending on what AR's used. I find myself being well better at playing some beatmaps with AR9.3/9.5 than with AR9, but I'm only satisfied when I hit a good score on the lower one. Harder to read but better to practice with, since it helps being able to see multiple hit-objects.
posted
Peppy pls !
posted

Kynan wrote:

Peppy pls !
same tbh
posted
How this can have 1400 points?! This is bad idea... First, the score multiplier for each combination... There are a lot if you can change it. Second, you are changing a map that someone maked so for anything, i think that changing the sr, cs of the map is like not caring and discarded the work of other. Third, this isn't too important but make a good rank in the map will be too hard a cause of bigger scored of top players.
Ps: sort if im bad expressed or wrong sentences, my English bad
posted

Fredyx2000 wrote:

How this can have 1400 points?! This is bad idea... First, the score multiplier for each combination... There are a lot if you can change it. Second, you are changing a map that someone maked so for anything, i think that changing the sr, cs of the map is like not caring and discarded the work of other. Third, this isn't too important but make a good rank in the map will be too hard a cause of bigger scored of top players.
Ps: sort if im bad expressed or wrong sentences, my English bad
How does changing the AR/OD affect the mapper's work at all ? Even today some mappers make maps that are over 5 stars and put OD7 on it. I find that really fuckin' stupid and a map that is that hard should AT LEAST be OD8. So allowing players to change that and get the deserved points out of it should be a thing.

As for the AR I'm part of the "it's preference so should be adjustable by the player" team but salty people are just gonna at me with the "haha you can't read noob" since they got no argument. Any argument could be countered by asking them why mania allows people to choose their scrolling speed but they would just say "meh different game so not comparable" but that's, again, not an argument since you could force them to use a fixed scrollspeed chosen by the mapper as well, but that would make what is already a flowed game mode even less enjoyable.

So IMHO, CS/AR/OD should be adjustable, and that wouldn't affect any mapper whatsoever and it would just make EVERYONE happy. Except maybe the salty people playing EZNF all day and braging about how "good" they are at "reading"...
posted
w00t Kynan, did you ever actually make a map yourself?
The chosen AR does affect the mapping process. Patterns and arrangements are mapped with a certain AR in mind and a different AR might lead to a pattern playing differently.
If you want to ignore the mapper's creative work you can still go into the editor and do your stuff.

If you're playing the game for pp you should just skip on maps that don't give you the "deserved points". None forces you to play these and they didn't get mapped with the sole purpose to be farmable for pp by some overly competitive players that can only be satisfied if their big number grows even bigger.
It is widely known that pp is only a mediocre reflection of skill. It can NOT be the solution to touch ranked/approved works to fix a problem of the pp-system.
posted
Oh hey, this thread again.

Still great as unranked mod. Still awful as ranked mod.
posted

Endaris wrote:

The chosen AR does affect the mapping process. Patterns and arrangements are mapped with a certain AR in mind and a different AR might lead to a pattern playing differently.
If you want to ignore the mapper's creative work you can still go into the editor and do your stuff.
This is what mods do, yet people don't argue about " ignoring mapper's creative work ".

  1. Mods actually ignore the mapper's creative work and we care about it, they should be unranked with the adjustable settings.
  2. Mods acutally ignore the mapper's creative work but we don't give a f*ck so we should have adjustable settings.
  3. Mods do not ignore the mapper's creative work and we should have adjustable settings.

  4. Adjustable settings would cause balancing issues with the ranking, we should keep it as an unranked mods at first.
  5. Adjustable settings would not cause balancing issues with the ranking, we should make it rankable.

  6. This feature is useless and people don't need it.
  7. F*ck these people.
posted
I love it when people quote only a part of your post and ignore the overall message just to nitpick at a few certain sentences.
Overall I agree with GhostFrog here...
posted
It's basically what every people that lack of argument say.
I was pointing what was worth pointing in your post, don't try to act like you did not write it.

You should write a personal diary if you don't want people to respond at what your writing.

The rest of your post is meaningless.

You're telling people should go for the PP maps if they want PP, I can't agree with that.
PP mapping is killing the creativity.

Instead, we could make every maps playable for everyone.
posted
I was talking about the PP as a relation to the difficulty of the map and the OD the mapper chose to put.
I'm just saying that it's really stupid, to not say retarded (oops), to use OD7 or OD7.5 or whatever, anything under OD8 for EXTRA DIFFS. If you guys can't understand this and just go on about "OH HE SAID PP PP PP AH FARMER DOESN'T KNOW MAPPING AH PP PP" instead of trying to understand what I mean, then you're missing the point here.

And about the "ignoring the mapper's creative work", please, the mods are here for a reason. Why would allowing people to adjust settings like mods already do change anything ? The mapper's creative work is the way he places the circles, not the OD he chooses to put on the map, what the hell ?! And especially in the case of hard maps where you HAVE to use high OD to avoid note-lock and stuff, it has nothing to do with where the mapper puts his circles.
And that applies to AR as well, if a mapper decides to go full retard and map 200+BPM jumps for 5 mins and puts it AR8 what would you say ? "Oh damn nice creative job!" fuck no, it will just make it really stupid and annoying to play.
posted
OD is a different thing and it might occur that OD is set too low and provokes a lot of notelock which should ideally be adressed during modding.
That has nothing to do with the fact that the problem is the design of the pp-system. It just doesn't make any sense to do a workaround that affects how a map plays.
OD/HP are really the stats where I wouldn't care much if they could be altered well we got NF for HP-issues but I would really dislike a possible toggle for AR and CS.

My reply was also more about that the arguments in that specific post of yours were plain stupid :P
Same with your example:
"if a mapper decides to go full retard"
yeah, then his map hopefully won't get ranked anyway
posted
i agree
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