Tanzklaue wrote:
ITT: why do people play mode x if mode y is much better in my opinion
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do most people play osu! standard?
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I'm learning on playing osu! standard, but I would play osu!mania as well.
I think it's because for playing osu mania, you need to have a good sense of rythm. Sadly, that sense can't be taught. With standard osu, looking at the hitcircles will be okay, but trying to "read" mania is just too difficult without that sense(because of the fact that you don't just have to hit it on time, but also release at the right time). I usually trust my sense while playing mania.
Though I do hope that more people will start to appreciate mania.
Though I do hope that more people will start to appreciate mania.
Both game modes require similar levels of rhythmic understanding. The difference is that standard mode has more separate visual cues to help you.nariette wrote:
I think it's because for playing osu mania, you need to have a good sense of rythm. Sadly, that sense can't be taught. With standard osu, looking at the hitcircles will be okay, but trying to "read" mania is just too difficult without that sense(because of the fact that you don't just have to hit it on time, but also release at the right time). I usually trust my sense while playing mania.
Though I do hope that more people will start to appreciate mania.
For example, in standard you can use the following separate things to help you figure out the timing:
When the hitcircle appeared
The approach circle
Sometimes, the distance between the current hitcircle and the next
In standard, to determine the timing difference between the current note and the next, you either have to calculate the timing of each note individually and compare (using the appearance timing or the approach circle of each hitcircle individually) or you can use the distance between hitcircles... When the next hitcircle is using the proper snap distance, meaning jumps are useless for calculating the relative timing between individual notes.
In Osu!Mania, the timing indication is contained in two complimentary things:
The distance between the current note and the next note in the pattern.
The distance between the current note and the bottom.
These two things work together to convey the information about the timing of the note, and the relationship of the timing between individual notes.
This actually makes it harder to determine timing information in standard, because it takes your brain more work to identify which information sources to use, and then use them. However, this process can be made automatic as a player progresses in skill, so it becomes less of an issue for players who have gotten decent at the game mode.
The big difference between standard and Osu!Mania is that in standard, you only have 1 rhythmic pattern to follow, because you only ever have 1 note at a time, whereas in Osu!Mania you can have multiple overlapping rhythmic patterns to follow, which makes that part of Osu!Mania harder.
Another consideration is that in standard, you only have 1 key you need to press at a time, ever. You could conceivably play freedom dive in standard single tapping, if you were fast enough. In mania, you are required to press multiple keys. This makes coordination much more important in Osu!Mania. This coordination requirement is the biggest barrier to people learning mania, because it takes a considerable amount of time to actually internalize the relationship between the onscreen note columns and the keys/fingers used to hit notes on each column.
Effectively, Osu! standard has a much lower entry barrier, whereas Osu!Mania has an overall higher requirement for beginner players.
I would predict that this low barrier to entry in Osu! is what is responsible for it's popularity.
well, maybe because they like it?
besides, osu!standard is sooooooo hard compared to other mode... i think.
besides, osu!standard is sooooooo hard compared to other mode... i think.
This^remiyuki wrote:
well, maybe because they like it?
besides, osu!standard is sooooooo hard compared to other mode... i think.
It's really hard to play. Should be easier with a tablet or so I've heard at least.
I got to the point of paying the harder Insanes in standard (probably around the low end of Advanced, if you applied the same skill levels from Drace's thread to standard), using mouse+keyboard. Tablets definitely make charts with lots of jumps easier, but it's entirely possible to get to the elite skill level using a mouse.
I'm surprised people think standard is hard. You only have 1 rhythm to follow and only 1 or 2 buttons to press so in some ways standard is easier.
I'm surprised people think standard is hard. You only have 1 rhythm to follow and only 1 or 2 buttons to press so in some ways standard is easier.
lol what? i guess movement doesn't matter huh... funny because i thought getting good at movement was the main reason why osu! is hard in the first place.Bobbias wrote:
I'm surprised people think standard is hard. You only have 1 rhythm to follow and only 1 or 2 buttons to press so in some ways standard is easier.
If you're gonna argue over which one's harder, it's not possible to compare em by trying to figure out which skill is harder to master. The right way to go about it is looking at how hard the content can get. Currently, osu is only like 4 years old, so the realistically, the best players has only been playing for like 4 years. Since the difficulty a community-based game is dependent on the community skills; it's reasonable to say it's possible to be able to pass some of the hardest content available within 2-3 years. Plus, standard is already close the limit of how hard a map can get, any more and things get too cluttered and impossible to play without memorization.
osu!mania on the other hand shares the same community as similar rhythm games, which has been going for over a decade. Meaning the best players has been playing for well over a decade. Someone who has been playing for 2-3 years isn't even close to be able to play what the best players plays. As the community grows, maps will get even harder than they already are. The also has more potential to clutter more things without making it unreadable. In that regard, osu!mania is currently much harder to "master".
Also, I think bobbias was just trying to point out that there's much more going on at once in mania, you can't really play 4 instrument tracks layered on top of each other in standard.
osu!mania on the other hand shares the same community as similar rhythm games, which has been going for over a decade. Meaning the best players has been playing for well over a decade. Someone who has been playing for 2-3 years isn't even close to be able to play what the best players plays. As the community grows, maps will get even harder than they already are. The also has more potential to clutter more things without making it unreadable. In that regard, osu!mania is currently much harder to "master".
Also, I think bobbias was just trying to point out that there's much more going on at once in mania, you can't really play 4 instrument tracks layered on top of each other in standard.
These are radically different games, and have entirely different skillset requirements and mechanics. Any comparison cannot objectively judge the games directly. The only REAL comparison I make here is in the skillcap.
My comment was based on my personal experience that I find that it has been harder to improve my coordination compared to my aiming skill.
Honestly, making a comparison between the gametypes was a bad idea in the first place. Both games have considerably different skill requirements, and are therefore impossible to really make a true comparison in terms of absolute difficulty. Hell, I almost said this thread should be closed because I didn't want to see it turn into a giant argument in the first place.Drace wrote:
If you're gonna argue over which one's harder, it's not possible to compare em by trying to figure out which skill is harder to master. The right way to go about it is looking at how hard the content can get. Currently, osu is only like 4 years old, so the realistically, the best players has only been playing for like 4 years. Since the difficulty a community-based game is dependent on the community skills; it's reasonable to say it's possible to be able to pass some of the hardest content available within 2-3 years. Plus, standard is already close the limit of how hard a map can get, any more and things get too cluttered and impossible to play without memorization.
osu!mania on the other hand shares the same community as similar rhythm games, which has been going for over a decade. Meaning the best players has been playing for well over a decade. Someone who has been playing for 2-3 years isn't even close to be able to play what the best players plays. As the community grows, maps will get even harder than they already are. The also has more potential to clutter more things without making it unreadable. In that regard, osu!mania is currently much harder to "master".
Also, I think bobbias was just trying to point out that there's much more going on at once in mania, you can't really play 4 instrument tracks layered on top of each other in standard.
My comment was based on my personal experience that I find that it has been harder to improve my coordination compared to my aiming skill.
Honestly i think both are equal hard to an extend. In osu standard the entry is alot more friendly and you dont get 7kys to press and ridiculous note placement thrown in your face. On the other side in mania it is similar easy but less "easier" to get into, the fact that you have to press multiple keys alone is the most reason to it (allthough other not name factors here come in to play aswell). But this does not make it any more different from the other game since in osu you need to controll the cursor and i think the learning curve for both games is about "equal" allthough osu is easier because the main difficulty seems, at least in the lower stages to put your cursor in the position and just press. Timing does not seem the biggest challenge as a noob and you are never thinking about it anyways when playing, you only try to hit the circles and not miss at first. After than everything evens out in both modes pretty much... and i dont think if any would be able to stand above the other because i seen both really hard stuff. The only think i want to mention is that in mania you really need to learn "some" specific things, if it is even just for this one map, and it can be really difficult to do that. While on the other hand if you care in osu!standard the difficulty itself seems just to progress normally up to a point where you are so good you get thrown stuff at you and you still play it either not at all or fine, in mania its different, where you get ridiculous patterns thrown at you and you need to totally adjust to it. I never felt that way in standard mode but i often hit a "wall" in mania mode..
TBH I think this thread should be locked. There's no point in this discussion, and since nobody here is capable of running any sort of experiment to determine the exact difficulty and differences between these game modes, everything in this thread is going to be opinions. When a thread is ONLY people stating their opinions on a polarizing subject, it quickly degrades from anything that might be called a proper discussion into people mindlessly espousing their belief without reading what anyone else says.
Hell, this should have been locked before I made my dumb comment.
Hell, this should have been locked before I made my dumb comment.
Well, I'm not going to post anything about one being better than the other or this is harder than that. But I'll express why I rather play osu!mania than osu!standard and it's pretty simple. I don't like the fact that mods gives extra points in the standard mode and that's why I rather play osu!mania, because I generally suck with them mods. 
To add to it I guess it's because osu!mania is more similar to games I've played before such as Stepmania as well, for example.
To add to it I guess it's because osu!mania is more similar to games I've played before such as Stepmania as well, for example.
I think osu!mania is the hardest mode to get into because of initial difficulty. The learning curve when you start playing 7k is ridiculous compared to the one you get on standard, meaning you have trouble playing even easy difficulties while on standard even hards are not that challenging, since the game is in a way "simpler".
On standard the basic are aim (which many players have already trained because of other games/regular PC use) and well... coordinating the key stroke with your cursor, on mania you need to get used to a LOT of things even when you just start, you don't just play, you need to train a lot to get to a level where you can at least play a variety of maps.
On standard the basic are aim (which many players have already trained because of other games/regular PC use) and well... coordinating the key stroke with your cursor, on mania you need to get used to a LOT of things even when you just start, you don't just play, you need to train a lot to get to a level where you can at least play a variety of maps.
I have no idea what the main appeal is for standard. I never really started playing it because there are too many different control variations and I couldn't work out which one I was best at but I already felt like I was pretty good on mania (I wasn't, but it felt like it.)
Standard is the most appealing because it's more friendly, more accessible, difficulties are properly tagged at low levels (here some maps tagged as normal require you to play for quite some time before you are able to clear them), lots of ranked maps (against just a few here), etc.
This game will probably end up having the same problem as Taiko.
This game will probably end up having the same problem as Taiko.
Welll it was allready mentioned that easy levels are needed for beginners and i think future maps will have them.
But its quite difficult to divert easy from plain and boring while the game does only require you to press 1 button. While in standard mode it can be fun to reach that button on easy levels. So its kind of tough
But its quite difficult to divert easy from plain and boring while the game does only require you to press 1 button. While in standard mode it can be fun to reach that button on easy levels. So its kind of tough
There are easy difficulties, I just started playing and I have many maps I can play. It's not that much a matter of maps but a matter of how the game's learning curve is. Now when I want to play harder stuff I can't because there is a lot of coordination and muscle memory involved (having to press several keys at the same time). That's the first barrier, on standard you don't really hit any barrier on the early game, maybe a small one when switching to hard and another one when switching to insane, and I think you really hit the hardest wall when you want to start playing super insanes. So yeah this game is less newbie friendly, that's just fine if you ask me. :p
Ah lol i thought you meant there arent enough easy songs to get you into mania, well i think there are just few. Anyways if thats your concern, you are on the right route. Once you got into it you will get better quite rapidly up to some point that you described and then you just gotta keep trying, dont fall into bad habbits, analyze your play, learn more about the song itself anything that can bring your skill further. 
I prefer to play standard maps on manía instead of manía specific because of the k-mods, and there are plenty of easy maps to begin with. I like both modes
Man, that's like slapping all the hard-working mappers on the face and then telling them a machine makes better maps then them :/skiter43 wrote:
I prefer to play standard maps on manía instead of manía specific because of the k-mods, and there are plenty of easy maps to begin with. I like both modes
Many reasons why mania-specifics are better, but I guess this only becomes apparent on harder difficulties.
I would say it's actually less about the difficulty, and more about what number of keys people are playing. Autoconverted 4k maps aren't nearly as godawful to play as autoconverted 7k stuff.Drace wrote:
Man, that's like slapping all the hard-working mappers on the face and then telling them a machine makes better maps then them :/skiter43 wrote:
I prefer to play standard maps on manía instead of manía specific because of the k-mods, and there are plenty of easy maps to begin with. I like both modes
Many reasons why mania-specifics are better, but I guess this only becomes apparent on harder difficulties.