...
really guys...

0_o wrote:

And I'm voting for nardi because as I've already said

0_o wrote:

EDIT: and if you think about it, his theory on strager's bandwagon (Echo, SFG, adam, nardi) does make some sense. Wouldn't you think a mafia member would jump at the chance to lynch the potential doctor? I think it's very likely that both of the mafia members are in that group.

I'm not confident enough to vote Echo and I believe SFG is a townie. So I'm fine with either nardi or adam, and since nardi is already on L-2, then well, there you go. I'm not going to split the vote between 2 people who I think should be lynched.

and now nardi's gone. who does that leave?

and again, I have my reasons for not voting Echo yet.

0_o wrote:

and now nardi's gone. who does that leave?

0_o, adam, Derekku, Echo, Olinad, SFG, strager. BagelBob's gone too.

</troll>

I totally forgot about my whole bandwagon idea. I'm just really relieved I didn't get killed, and at the same time am very pressured by others because I'm a hugeass target.

Unvote
Vote: 0_o

strager wrote:

Unvote
Vote: 0_o

woah, what? where did that come from?

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

Unvote
Vote: 0_o

woah, what? where did that come from?

he's um. trying to lynch you instead of himself, apparently. maybe he thinks that turning on his mafia buddy will clear him.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Oh come on, if I were mafia with him I wouldn't have made my defence of him so obvious. Although again, I've already gone through this here.

I would really like to hear from strager right now, cause I'm really starting to have doubts about my entire thought process about him... if he really was the doctor then why would he target the person who believes (or believed) him the most?

0_o wrote:

Oh come on, if I were mafia with him I wouldn't have made my defence of him so obvious. Although again, I've already gone through this here.

I would really like to hear from strager right now, cause I'm really starting to have doubts about my entire thought process about him... if he really was the doctor then why would he target the person who believes (or believed) him the most?

easy. you two are in the mafia together. he realized hes about to die so hes trying to free you cus if you win its still a mafia win. youre acting clueless to throw us off.

Votecount 1:

strager - 2 (adam2046, SFG)
adam2046 - 1 (0_o)
0_o - 1 (strager)

Not Voting - 3 (Olinad, Echo, Derekku)

THIS IS NOT A VOTE

I'd like to know what derekku and sfg think about voting for adam and 0_o. Please say which of the two you would vote for (ie. who do you think is more likely to be mafia) and some sort of reason as to why, preferably backed up with evidence (but not necessary). If you can, present some sort of argument for who you would vote for and why.

I'd also like adam to reiterate or point out the post(s) that explain why you're still voting for strager.

I would advise that no one else vote strager as he is on L-1 L-2 right now. If you do vote him, you better make sure you have a nice argument.

THIS IS NOT A VOTE

Echo wrote:

I'd like to know what derekku and sfg think about voting for adam and 0_o. If you can, present some sort of argument for who you would vote for and why.

I believe i made my position on strager crystal clear - i am completely convinced that he is mafia and im wondering a bit why you're defending him now. I mentally cleared adam when nardi was cleared (by lynch, sadly...i should have stuck with my original vote for strager), although he still falls under the "i dont know what to make of you" kind of suspicion.

I am fairly sure 0_o is strager's partner in crime, however i still believe there is a possibility that hes just a highly misled citizen. stragers recent attack on him is a bit confusing and i believe i stated my thoughts on it in an earlier post.


for that matter, its 4 to lynch and strager has 2 votes - doesnt that put him on L-2?

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

I'm voting for strager purely based on how he has acted the entire game, I haven't seen many posts by him that actually make me less suspicious of him.
I've also had a feeling since I first seriously voted strager that Derek was his buddy, but that might be paranoia.

...Why are people suspicious of me anyway? I don't think anyone has actually brought any valid points up against me(at least not that I remember...)

adam: would you vote derekku or 0_o if you had to pick one of the two, and why?

Yep I guess today I'll do something new and try to show a bit of thinking from my side.
The names arein random order as I'm writing from the Wii and have no time nor will to write an alphabetical list :E

*) strager looks suspicious, but I think he only made a mistake at the beginning and then thought that not claiming as the doctor would be even worse than doing it. So I gues that even if the chances he's Mafia are high, the chances of him being the doctor are quite as high so I wont' vote for him right now.

*) Derekku isn't posting much, but well, even I am not posting much but that doesn't mean I'm part of the mafia... And even not helping the train of thought can lead to mafia, as he could simply be hiding as he has an aux role or not knowing what to say as he's confused (as I am actually! XD). So I guess I have no motivation to vote for him.

*) Echo is always a big question mark in my head. I have no idea of what his role could be, as he's always attacking and really rarely defending. So... I dunno, really

*) SFG seems too resolutive. Simplyfing things is good but could lead to mistakes... and jumping to conclusions about strager and 0_o being Mafia is too much I guess.

*) dunno what to say about adam ATM, I'll read the topic more carefully and point smth out but I don't see him as really suspicious

*) No idea about 0_o either - I won't hide I think he may be Mafia, but I'm not really sure as others are.

So I guess I'll vote SFG

If I had to, I would probably vote Derekku since he seems to subtley be all buddy budddy with strager in this game...hmm actually
Then again 0_o has been acting rather weird...I haven't really seen him play much so I don't really know.
Also I don't like his "gut feeling" excuse for voting, it makes him sound like a weirdo.

Oh and this is one of the things that made me suspicious of Derek:

Derekku Chan wrote:

I'm really sick of all this shit flying back and forth. To sum up how I feel without having to type a 20-page essay, Echo needs to stop being so fucking aggresive. strager has never even played before, and you're throwing every fucking thing in the book at him. We're human. We make mistakes. We slip up. It doesn't mean that strager is the bad guy, and the way that you keep pushing shit at him is really making you look the most suspicious in my book.

I'm finally throwing my vote down.

Vote. Echo.

*goes to lay down because his back is killing him*

I saw this as pretty much trying to derail discussion on strager.

If strager is mafia I would probably vote Derek over 0_o (unless something else comes up) if strager is human I would most likely vote for Echo (but I would probably be lynched that next day though)

Too bored...

...I should be worse at being mafia so it's easier to tell when I'm a human.

Thanks adam, I'm waiting for derekku's and sfg's responses now, feel free to continue with whatever other discussion that may cross your mind.

Echo wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

for that matter, its 4 to lynch and strager has 2 votes - doesnt that put him on L-2?

My mistake, fixed. So you would pick 0_o over adam? Can you show me what makes you think that adam must be paired with nardi?

the reason adam and nardi were under heightened suspicion in the first place was because of strager's bandwagon theory - a point which is entirely moot now that i know that strager is mafia and nardi is not. i also, i must confess, have not gone back to do a post study of adam to try and move him back off of the default suspicion again. perhaps i should do that after church.


0_o on the other hand has made like 90% of his posts in defense of strager. Furthermore unlike most other people who defended strager with logic and basic mafia concepts (me, BagelBob, etc.) he generally either restated points or went with sort of emotional arguments? at least thats the feel i got from them. It looks to me like hes trying to defend strager but doesnt know how, and i personally say that a VILLAGER should always know why theyre defending someone before they actually start defending them. Since 0_o apparently didnt, i strongly suspect that he more than any other player is likely to be strager's accomplace.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Furthermore unlike most other people who defended strager with logic and basic mafia concepts (me, BagelBob, etc.) he generally either restated points or went with sort of emotional arguments?

Mind posting some quotes? I may have restated a few points, but I don't recall making any "emotional arguments"?

As SFG said, I was not the only one to defend strager, so don't try using that as an argument that I'm scum. Also, I've said at least once that I don't like strager's suspicious behavior and that I'm suspicious of him. If I was in cahoots with strager, I wouldn't be pushing suspicion on him (or obviously myself).

I haven't been posting a lot because 1) I've been busy IRL 2) I haven't really had much to say.

What I think about the other players in no particular order

Echo - I don't think he's mafia. But he's really good at this game so maybe he is and he's just covering it up good. I'm not sure what to think atm~

0_o - Keeps pointing fingers at adam for no reason; Defends strager; I don't understand this.

Olinad - Hasn't posted a whole lot, so I really don't what to make of him. One reason I thought nardi was scum was because he didn't post much, but we know how far that went... I won't use the same thing on olinad. Unless that's what he wants me to think... brb WIFOM (PS Oli, post moar plz)

adam - I really see nothing suspicious about adam, but he hasn't said a whole lot either. Please post more =) inb4youtwoaremafiatogetherandyou'redefendinghimyouscum

SFG - Has also been pointing towards adam for no reason. I must be missing something here. -_-

strager - I'm very suspicious of him. On one hand he could truthfully be the doctor and we should keep him safe, but on the other hand he could easily be mafia. I'm still trying to analyze information in my head about what I think about strager. :/

0_o wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Furthermore unlike most other people who defended strager with logic and basic mafia concepts (me, BagelBob, etc.) he generally either restated points or went with sort of emotional arguments?

Mind posting some quotes? I may have restated a few points, but I don't recall making any "emotional arguments"?

lol the reason the "?" was there is cus i dont remember specifics, lemme go back and look


"We'll see. I don't really find nardi particularly suspicious, it's just that everyone else just seems innocent " <--- lol i found an emotional argument but it wasnt talking about strager really lemme keep looking


"So yes, I have a different opinion than Echo, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna vote for him. Personally I'd rather wait a day and see what happens; some of your posts have been a little strange (hereby suspicious) but the fact that you might be (and probably are) the doctor is keeping me from voting for you."


"ok, as of now the only 2 people i haven't "diagnosed" in my mind as pro-town is adam2046 and nardi."


"Well I said before that I was thinking either you or nardi, and from the general feel of your posts I just started to lean towards you. It's the first day and there isn't a lot of evidence from anyone to go on, so for today I'm just playing by my gut"

thats prolly enough

Derekku wrote:

SFG - Has also been pointing towards adam for no reason. I must be missing something here. -_-

Echo asked me what i thought about adam. what ive said is basically that i dont particularly suspect him but i also havent done my research on him yet

Since everyone else seems to be doing this I'll do it myself, in the order I want to say something.

Echo
Today Echo doesn't seem to have been suspicious of me at all, whereas yesterday he was crazy about me. I can only think of two reasons:

He is a Mafia and will kill me later. This doesn't seem to convincing for me.
He is a Cop and looked at my role last Night, and realizes I am not a Mafia.

Echo, can you please explain yourself as to why you haven't mentioned me today?

adam
He seems to be random voting today, and generally playing with everyone because of that. I doubt that means he's a Mafia but of course that can't be ruled out.

0_o
Until you explain why you're not considering Echo as a Mafia I'm keeping my vote on you as some pressure. I know why you are defending me, and I am grateful, but as I said before sometimes you defend me when I don't need to be defended (TODO: find references; I may be wrong).

Olinad
Of course Olinad's latest post is only to make sure another nardi incident doesn't happen again, so it's impossible to determine if he's a Mafia or a Townie just by him posting.

But let's look inside his post.

Olinad wrote:

*) strager looks suspicious, but I think he only made a mistake at the beginning and then thought that not claiming as the doctor would be even worse than doing it.

I didn't cover myself up because that'd be a Mafia tell I think.

Olinad wrote:

*) Derekku isn't posting much, but well, even I am not posting much but that doesn't mean I'm part of the mafia... And even not helping the train of thought can lead to mafia, as he could simply be hiding as he has an aux role or not knowing what to say as he's confused (as I am actually! XD). So I guess I have no motivation to vote for him.

Confusion is encouraged by the Mafia I believe. I know I've been confusing but that's by my nature I guess. (If you've spoke to me IRL...) Staying away from the confusion ... I don't know how to take that myself. Whatever; this part doesn't lead me anywhere.

Olinad wrote:

*) Echo is always a big question mark in my head. I have no idea of what his role could be, as he's always attacking and really rarely defending. So... I dunno, really

In his defense he really hasn't been attacked with a convincing argument.

Olinad wrote:

*) SFG seems too resolutive. Simplyfing things is good but could lead to mistakes... and jumping to conclusions about strager and 0_o being Mafia is too much I guess.

Indeed; see below.

adam wrote:

*) dunno what to say about adam ATM, I'll read the topic more carefully and point smth out but I don't see him as really suspicious

Neither I but he seems to be arousing confusion a bit, though I just think he's being playful.

0_o wrote:

*) No idea about 0_o either - I won't hide I think he may be Mafia, but I'm not really sure as others are.

Nothing else to say for him?

SFG
viewtopic.php?p=145925#p145925
Genius! But why aren't you voting for 0_o with me, if you think we are both Mafia?

Derekku
I'll just go through his latest post.

Derekku Chan wrote:

I haven't been posting a lot because 1) I've been busy IRL 2) I haven't really had much to say.

lol at point 1.

Derekku Chan wrote:

0_o - Keeps pointing fingers at adam for no reason; Defends strager; I don't understand this.

He defends me because he believes me. He also believes in my bandwagon theory, as he has stated, and is most of the reason he's voting for adam.

Derekku Chan wrote:

Olinad - Hasn't posted a whole lot, so I really don't what to make of him. One reason I thought nardi was scum was because he didn't post much, but we know how far that went...

Hmm, I wonder who pushed the vote on nardi for that.

Derekku Chan wrote:

adam - I really see nothing suspicious about adam, but he hasn't said a whole lot either. Please post more =) inb4youtwoaremafiatogetherandyou'redefendinghimyouscum

What hasn't been suspicious about adam, really? He's said a whole lot of nothing lately, IMO.

Ohh ok, I thought by emotional arguments you meant like playing heartstrings Anyway:

"So yes, I have a different opinion than Echo, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna vote for him. Personally I'd rather wait a day and see what happens; some of your posts have been a little strange (hereby suspicious) but the fact that you might be (and probably are) the doctor is keeping me from voting for you."

iirc this was in response to strager wondering why I wasn't voting Echo when I was defending him. And it's true, I thought Echo was wrong about strager, but just because I don't agree with someone's reasoning doesn't necessarily mean I think they are mafia.

"ok, as of now the only 2 people i haven't "diagnosed" in my mind as pro-town is adam2046 and nardi."

I'll admit, there wasn't a lot (or any) of hard evidence here. It was the first day, and we didn't have a lot to go on (and I already said I wasn't voting strager). So yes, this was mainly random/instincts.

"Well I said before that I was thinking either you or nardi, and from the general feel of your posts I just started to lean towards you. It's the first day and there isn't a lot of evidence from anyone to go on, so for today I'm just playing by my gut"

Pretty much this The only people who really got any attention conversation-wise was strager and Echo. There was little to no evidence against anyone else, so I didn't want to vote for either of them, then all I really had to go on was intuition.

And to strager: I already said before that I haven't counted him out as mafia. It's just right now the only thing I had going against him is his strong conviction that you were mafia (and now I'm starting to wonder myself). I'm waiting for more information, particularly who the next night kills are, and what he has to say about other people besides you.

0_o wrote:

It's just right now the only thing I had going against him is his strong conviction that you were mafia (and now I'm starting to wonder myself). I'm waiting for more information, particularly who the next night kills are, and what he has to say about other people besides you.

Can you respond to what I said elsewhere in that post you responded to?

strager wrote:

Today Echo doesn't seem to have been suspicious of me at all, whereas yesterday he was crazy about me.

strager wrote:

Today Echo doesn't seem to have been suspicious of me at all, whereas yesterday he was crazy about me.

Just because he hasn't mentioned you yet doesn't mean he isn't suspicious of you anymore. I think right now he's just trying to get information from everyone else, since we've been so focused on you so far.

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

Today Echo doesn't seem to have been suspicious of me at all, whereas yesterday he was crazy about me.

Just because he hasn't mentioned you yet doesn't mean he isn't suspicious of you anymore. I think right now he's just trying to get information from everyone else, since we've been so focused on you so far.

Well this was the tip-off:

Echo wrote:

I would advise that no one else vote strager as he is on L-1 L-2 right now. If you do vote him, you better make sure you have a nice argument.

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Vote log

Day 1
Continued from viewtopic.php?p=142472#p142472
SFG: adam
viewtopic.php?p=142965#p142965
BagelBob: -
BagelBob: nardi
SFG: -
SFG: nardi
0_o: -
0_o: nardi
BagelBob: -
strager: Echo
viewtopic.php?p=143889#p143889
Lynch: nardi (Vanilla Townie)
Kill: BagelBob (Vanilla Townie)

Day 2
strager: SFG
adam: strager
SFG: strager
strager: -
0_o: adam
strager: -
strager: 0_o
viewtopic.php?p=145936#p145936
Olinad: SFG

Derekku, you missed this post. Please answer this question:

Out of adam and 0_o, who would you vote and why?

adam2046 wrote:

If I had to, I would probably vote Derekku since he seems to subtly be all buddy buddy with strager in this game...hmm actually
Then again 0_o has been acting rather weird...I haven't really seen him play much so I don't really know.
Also I don't like his "gut feeling" excuse for voting, it makes him sound like a weirdo.

Oh and this is one of the things that made me suspicious of Derek:

Derekku Chan wrote:

I'm really sick of all this shit flying back and forth. To sum up how I feel without having to type a 20-page essay, Echo needs to stop being so fucking aggresive. strager has never even played before, and you're throwing every fucking thing in the book at him. We're human. We make mistakes. We slip up. It doesn't mean that strager is the bad guy, and the way that you keep pushing shit at him is really making you look the most suspicious in my book.

I'm finally throwing my vote down.

Vote. Echo.

*goes to lay down because his back is killing him*

I saw this as pretty much trying to derail discussion on strager.

If strager is mafia I would probably vote Derek over 0_o (unless something else comes up) if strager is human I would most likely vote for Echo (but I would probably be lynched that next day though)

Too bored...

...I should be worse at being mafia so it's easier to tell when I'm a human.

I said that because I was sick of the arguing back and forth. Now I see that I shouldn't have posted that and I was just raging that night because I wasn't feeling good. Like I said earlier, I'm not "buddy buddy" with strager. I'm very suspicious of him just like most of us are.

Echo wrote:

Derekku, you missed this post. Please answer this question:

Out of adam and 0_o, who would you vote and why?

After rereading, I'm going with adam.

In this post, I said that I wasn't suspicious of adam. I said that because he hasn't said a whole lot, but now that I think about it, that only makes him MORE suspicious. He has hardly backed up any of his claims at all. What started off as a random vote against strager quickly turned into some sort of plan. Every time he has voted for strager, he's acted like strager is just another person instead of scum. If adam is mafia, then this fits. His goal is to eliminate all townies, which makes strager one too (save his possible aux role). I've hardly seen anything useful from adam's posts. 0_o, Echo, SFG, strager, and myself all defend our accusations on others and accusations against ourselves.

So: Vote adam

Derekku Chan wrote:

I'm not "buddy buddy" with strager.

D=

</wrists>

Derekku Chan wrote:

In this post, I said that I wasn't suspicious of adam. I said that because he hasn't said a whole lot, but now that I think about it, that only makes him MORE suspicious.

I see how far that reasoning went with nardi.

Derekku Chan wrote:

He has hardly backed up any of his claims at all. What started off as a random vote against strager quickly turned into some sort of plan. Every time he has voted for strager, he's acted like strager is just another person instead of scum.

I guess that is true. If I recall his reasoning for voting for me yesterday was because I was suspicious and Echo had a convincing argument.

Derekku Chan wrote:

If adam is mafia, then this fits. His goal is to eliminate all townies, which makes strager one too (save his possible aux role). I've hardly seen anything useful from adam's posts. 0_o, Echo, SFG, strager, and myself all defend our accusations on others and accusations against ourselves.

I still don't see how this makes adam a Mafia. Can you try explaining in a different way?

strager wrote:

I see how far that reasoning went with nardi.

nardi barely posted at all. But I meant: Whenever adam posts, it's nothing useful.

strager wrote:

I guess that is true. If I recall his reasoning for voting for me yesterday was because I was suspicious and Echo had a convincing argument.

Exactly. adam keeps saying over and over that you're "suspicious", but hasn't backed it up with anything of his own. At least Echo had arguments.

strager wrote:

I still don't see how this makes adam a Mafia. Can you try explaining in a different way?

What I said above in this post =)

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strager wrote:

Echo, can you please explain yourself as to why you haven't mentioned me today?

I realise I don't know enough about anyone other than you, since I spent too much of yesterday focussing on only one person. I'm just trying to salvage as much information as I can.

olinad: can you please rate, in order, who you would vote for out of adam, derekku and 0_o and why?

mod: vote count, and please prod olinad to answer the question above (pm with a link or something)

edit: strager, why are you suddenly so defensive of adam?

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo, can you please explain yourself as to why you haven't mentioned me today?

I realise I don't know enough about anyone other than you, since I spent too much of yesterday focussing on only one person. I'm just trying to salvage as much information as I can.

Eh, so you're claiming Cop? Because you say you know something about me.

Echo wrote:

edit: strager, why are you suddenly so defensive of adam?

I'm not. I'm trying to find out why Derekku says he is a Mafia. Maybe I'm just missing something in his logic, but it seems as if he's giving bogus reasoning.

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Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

I realise I don't know enough about anyone other than you, since I spent too much of yesterday focussing on only one person. I'm just trying to salvage as much information as I can.

Eh, so you're claiming Cop? Because you say you know something about me.

I never claimed anything of that sort. I know more about you than anyone else because I focussed only on you yesterday?

That doesn't mean you know unless you trust.

Anyway, apparently you understand Derekku's reason, so can you try explaning why adam is a Mafia?

I don't think Echo is cop; if he was he probably would have investigated you before accusing you all day

"I don't know enough about anyone other you" == "I know more about you than anyone else"

It doesn't indicate anything.

I think I see what derekku is getting at but I'll prefer to wait until Olinad answers my question.