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posted

Aqo wrote:

osu isn't math. it doesn't take any progression of prior knowledge. you just stare at the screen, see circles show up, and click on them.
But you need basics, such as your reaction stimuli, hand coordination, music sense , stamina , concentration. It's not as simple as 'clicking circles'

Let's take an another example : RPG Games didn't gave you much exp if you beat a monster that it's level are waaayyy higher than yours. It's implying that by rushing you get nothing.
posted

Otonashi Yuzuru wrote:

Aqo wrote:

osu isn't math. it doesn't take any progression of prior knowledge. you just stare at the screen, see circles show up, and click on them.
But you need basics, such as your reaction stimuli, hand coordination, music sense , stamina , concentration. It's not as simple as 'clicking circles'

Let's take an another example : RPG Games didn't gave you much exp if you beat a monster that it's level are waaayyy higher than yours. It's implying that by rushing you get nothing.
Hm you all make valid points. I guess I should do normals until I can perfect them, I have indeed issues at hard difficulty with several jumps cause I'm not 100% confident about my accuracy

If anyone is interested in checking my skill level (I know I'm bad, just not sure how bad) I can play tracks like http://osu.ppy.sh/s/40216 (Chris Da House & DJ Sledge Hammer - Believe (Nightcore Mix) at hard around 90%
posted
Another good way to practice is by playing maps of songs that you've listened to before, because it makes it easier for you to anticipate how the notes are going to sound like when you play the map.

I jumped straight into hards the moment I started playing this game and although I've made some pretty good progress (in my opinion), I tend to have some trouble with the fundamentals of the game, especially with keeping combo due to easily avoidable mistakes.

The best way to get better at this game is by no-lifing it and just play a shitton. Unless you have some sort of gene that makes you a genius at clicking circles, just put in the time and effort and you'll see results soon enough.
posted
A little tips for you, old players says that JAMES DIFFICULTY help them to improve (I've never tried it). You lose nothing if you want to check it :p , it's kinda outdated though
posted
One last thing I've been wondering for a while.

I use 1000 dpi with standard windows settings (but acceleration/encanced precision off). I notice I sometimes panic cause I need to move the mouse so fast to the other side of the screen the dragging alone makes me miss a beat (in harder or insane tracks) I just practised with 1800 dpi and while I find it more difficult cause I'm not used to it I did notice my movements are a lot smoother.

Should I try to get used to a higher dpi while playing osu? I absolutely can't play other games with a higher dpi than 1000 but I don't want osu to influence my other gameplay in a negative way, I play osu to get faster reaction times and mouse accuracy in general.

I'm afraid if I use a higher dpi on osu I will have a hard time switching around between high and low dpi all the time
posted

critxjoker wrote:

One last thing I've been wondering for a while.

I use 1000 dpi with standard windows settings (but acceleration/encanced precision off). I notice I sometimes panic cause I need to move the mouse so fast to the other side of the screen the dragging alone makes me miss a beat (in harder or insane tracks) I just practised with 1800 dpi and while I find it more difficult cause I'm not used to it I did notice my movements are a lot smoother.

Should I try to get used to a higher dpi while playing osu? I absolutely can't play other games with a higher dpi than 1000 but I don't want osu to influence my other gameplay in a negative way, I play osu to get faster reaction times and mouse accuracy in general.

I'm afraid if I use a higher dpi on osu I will have a hard time switching around between high and low dpi all the time
I'm currently using 1600 dpi , mouse sensitivity 1.0x . and i feel comfortable with my current dpi and settings :D

Well it depends. But it's not usual if you're keep changing your dpi settings
posted

Otonashi Yuzuru wrote:

Aqo wrote:

Being consistent on normals is a useless skill and a waste of time if you ever intend to play higher difficulties.
Let's say, you're now a 1st grade elementary student. And the teacher told you to solve a math problem that was for 4th grade elementary student. you can either choose only learn that problem , and that only takes 1 week, which your result are B , and you will forget about it in 1 week (stress). And you can choose learn it slowly , all the basics , and it takes you 3 years, which your result are A , but you can solve that problem anytime and anywhere (calm). in the end which 'you' is smarter? It's like you're choosing time over quality

There's no need to rush. If you don't have any talent with rhythm games, playing insanes in your early level just makes you say things like ''fck this game, fcking hard sh*t'' and then stop playing. But IF you take it slowly, and enjoy this game, you will get better, even if it's slowly.
Actually, making a 1st grade student solve 4th grade (or even higher) math problems is actually a good way to teach an intelligent kid math (as long as you don't stress him out. For that you don't even tell him he is doing things that are supposed to be learned at higher levels), this happens since math is not something you "learn" (except for notations and such, that aren't the core of math itself): A 1st grade kid can answer to a question like "if you have 4 cartons of 1 liter of milk, your brother drinks a quarter of a liter everyday, and you drink a third of a liter everyday, how many days the milk will last?" (if you give him enough time).

About osu!, the game requires:
a) Fine Motor Skills (performing the right movements while playing, this is dependent mostly in muscle memory, and muscle strength). This is trained mainly playing fast and complex maps.
b) Sight-Reading Skills (understanding how to play the beatmaps as soon as you see them). This is trained playing hard to read maps (complex patterns, or no patterns at all), playing high AR, playing low AR, and playing hidden.
c) Rhythm Skills (timing the clicks based on the music and hitsounds to get more accuracy). This can be trained with any difficulty, but playing slow maps will make you better at timing slow maps, while playing fast maps will make you better at timing fast maps.
posted

Full Tablet wrote:

Actually, making a 1st grade student solve 4th grade (or even higher) math problems is actually a good way to teach an intelligent kid math (as long as you don't stress him out. For that you don't even tell him he is doing things that are supposed to be learned at higher levels), this happens since math is not something you "learn" (except for notations and such, that aren't the core of math itself).
well what i mean there are their level of stress. Yes, it's actually good because that's the method that Japanese Mathemathican Kumon use. But you still need to learn the basics
posted
playing maps outside your comfort zone helps a lot i think
maps you rank C with are probably worth practicing
posted

critxjoker wrote:

One last thing I've been wondering for a while.

I use 1000 dpi with standard windows settings (but acceleration/encanced precision off). I notice I sometimes panic cause I need to move the mouse so fast to the other side of the screen the dragging alone makes me miss a beat (in harder or insane tracks) I just practised with 1800 dpi and while I find it more difficult cause I'm not used to it I did notice my movements are a lot smoother.

Should I try to get used to a higher dpi while playing osu? I absolutely can't play other games with a higher dpi than 1000 but I don't want osu to influence my other gameplay in a negative way, I play osu to get faster reaction times and mouse accuracy in general.

I'm afraid if I use a higher dpi on osu I will have a hard time switching around between high and low dpi all the time
This game is perfectly playable with 400 dpi provided you have enough desk space to accomodate for the mouse movement. I guess it's all preference, but imo it would be best if you stick to one dpi across all boards (playing other games, surfing the internet, etc.)
posted
eh... don't play" everything". I would recommend playing what is challenging and/or fun to you. Early on you should be struggling to pass. Then when you start sigh treading and passing insanes, then I would recommend branching out into other areas to train depending on what you like/ want to do. For example, I would recommend adding hidden and/or hard rock as that helped me increase reading and accuracy.
I am also of the opinion that the game is completely different at the hard level, and sooooo much more different at the insane + level.

In summary, play what challenging to you and you will see a steady increase in skill. Don't worry about rank, try your best each time, don't spam retry often, and ... have fun!
posted
play at best condition. well-rested. seriously i cant do shit when i'm tired/lacked sleep
posted

Aqo wrote:

osu isn't math. it doesn't take any progression of prior knowledge. you just stare at the screen, see circles show up, and click on them.
Compare it to a musical instrument, then. Do you learn a musical instrument by playing the hardest material you can physically play, or do you play material that's just difficult enough to be challenging? You do the latter because it allows you to recognize and fix mistakes as they happen.

Your method will work eventually, but it isn't the fastest way. Take reading, for example. Many of the patterns used in difficult maps are just faster, jumpier, or slightly embellished patterns from less difficult maps. If you jump straight to the difficult maps you're gonna struggle just to see the patterns, let alone recognize them, but if you start on easier maps you'll see the patterns right away. For streaming, jumping right to really fast maps will certainly build your speed quickly, but because you don't have a muscle memory foundation on which to build that speed your consistency will suffer. The same can be said for jumps: a beginner won't have much, if any, spatial awareness to speak of, so jumping right to really difficult jump maps will encourage jumping without aiming, which is bad.

At the end of the day, there's a reason practice tends to start easy and get progressively more difficult. If you skip the easy things you simply won't have a proper foundation, and bad habits will form. osu! is no exception to this.
posted
Stop comparing osu to things that aren't osu

Osu takes 3 skills

- accuracy/reading
- aim/jump
- stream/speed

You won't improve your stream AT ALL by playing normals
You won't improve your aim AT ALL by playing normals
You will improve your reading VERY SLOWLY by playing normals since they're mapped at half bpm and usually in a vague way that, for a beginner, is unclear how it connects to the music, so he ends up just looking at approach circles instead of following the rhythm

The things that you're going to accomplish in 2 months of playing [Normal]s can be accomplished in one week of playing insanes with nofail.
posted
Nofailing stuff with 50% is not the way to go.

Just challenge yourself, and don't get complacent, unless you're like me and don't actually care because I can do without the extra stress in my life.

But make sure that "IF ANYTHING," your order of fingering and the number of taps you do on your keyboard matches what's on the screen. Tapping even one note extra leads to problems in the long run, which is the start of buttonmashing. If there is a pattern giving you this problem as it used to do to me, practice it slower and get it right first.

"Elementary school kid example" is actually somewhat relevant. You develop a repertoire of experiences, whether it be eye-motions, pen/mouse sequences and keyboard taps, just by playing osu!, an unimaginably large repertoire. If you never practice, for example, doubles, you're always gonna triple-tap them until you do. That's why you need to play INSANES. Hards and under rarely feature difficult patterns that you need to learn.

It's similar to FPS games, where you can have quite a large repertoire of mouse-flick movements to exact distances practiced, and keypress timings which you are familiar with, accurate to within a few milliseconds. You compensate for this movement with your mouse instinctively, yes, it's called "dodging." But even dodging, although simple to execute, is not effective unless you're anticipating your opponent in said game. This is where "basics" come into play, when autonomous motions such as dodging no longer require our attention, and instead we just think about our opponent and we "know what to do."

Although it is not mathematics per se, it's about patterns. Pattern recognition is the unseen fuzzy logic maths of the human mind, the invisible intelligence. A bit like how sometimes maths students can arrive at an answer, and know it's right because of some fuzzy logic pattern, but not know how they got there.
It has no use in society aside from learning other things better, and plays a huge role in everybody. In osu!, all we see is circles, all we have to think about is circles, but our brain is STILL doing everything which we USED TO PRACTICE AT THE BEGINNING. However it no longer requires our attention. This is why you need to learn the basics. Basics become instinctive later.
posted

Aqo wrote:

Stop comparing osu to things that aren't osu

Osu takes 3 skills

- accuracy/reading
- aim/jump
- stream/speed

You won't improve your stream AT ALL by playing normals
You won't improve your aim AT ALL by playing normals
You will improve your reading VERY SLOWLY by playing normals since they're mapped at half bpm and usually in a vague way that, for a beginner, is unclear how it connects to the music, so he ends up just looking at approach circles instead of following the rhythm

The things that you're going to accomplish in 2 months of playing [Normal]s can be accomplished in one week of playing insanes with nofail.
Osu might not be completely analogous to math or musical instruments, but it's similar enough to draw comparisons, and there is a middle ground between normals and no-fail insanes (and a pretty substantial one at that). Stop thinking in binaries.

Obviously playing normals for two months isn't going to get you anywhere, but why on earth would you spend a whole two months playing normals when you could easily start doing hards after a couple of days? You said it yourself, the difference between hards and insanes is often blurred, and the vast majority of patterns in most insanes are just variants of patterns found in most hards. This includes jump patterns and stream patterns, though you've gotta dig a bit to find hards with lengthy stream patterns. I'll agree that there is absolutely no reason to do normals for an extended period of time and retrying to perfect a map is generally worthless unless you have something really specific you want to practice, but telling a beginner to marathon insanes is just silly. It might work eventually but making use of the vast number of maps between normals and insanes to build a foundation will be much, much quicker.

And I have to ask, why the hate for approach circles? Sure, you shouldn't only be watching approach circles for your timing, but on older maps with more offset variance it can help a lot to know whether the hit circles are ahead or behind, and if you have a good eye you can figure this out by watching approach circles.
posted

NarrillNezzurh wrote:

And I have to ask, why the hate for approach circles? Sure, you shouldn't only be watching approach circles for your timing, but on older maps with more offset variance it can help a lot to know whether the hit circles are ahead or behind, and if you have a good eye you can figure this out by watching approach circles.
He's just being obnoxious about it. What he really means is you shouldn't focus explicitly on approach circles, which is true for playing AR9+
But as I've described above, with pattern recognition, whether it is peripheral vision or whatever, your brain still knows what an approach circle is and is certainly aware of them, no matter what speed.
posted
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posted
By playing insane + nofail, you don't have the basics to even grasp what's actually going on, which results into button mashing and moving your cursor just in the general direction, hoping to hit something. This creates a lot of bad habits:
Button Mashing results in uncontrolled streaming. A lot of players get frustrated by a 1/2 note stacked underneath the last note in a longer stream, because they overstream. If you actually have the basics down before practicing streaming, you'll always pay attention to not clicking more than necessary, thus reducing the chance of overstreaming. You also expect to need to just click as fast as possible on any stream, and you'll have problems maintaining slower streams, while this is never a problem if you start from the slower ones and work your way up.
Because faster streams are more lenient to button mashing, even if you can control the speed of your fingers, you still don't have the fundamentals to move your fingers in a consistent alternating motion, resulting in 300-100-300-100-100-300-50-300-x-300-100 on slower streams.
Reading a map is combination of more than just seeing the notes. One of those factors is the approach circle. It's not a useless skill to be able to read approach circles, as they're often used to read anti-jumps.
Playing maps over your skill level will also mean you need higher reaction, which results in you paying attention to when a not appears, and then instantly hitting it. This works for maps with AR10 or hr playing, but you'll struggle A LOT on slower approach rates, because your brain expects to hit the note just as it appears. I know many players who can read AR10 much better than me, but think AR9 is too slow. If you start from the basics, you stimulate your brain to actually know that no, you don't hit a note when it appears, but ACTUALLY when the approach circle hits.
Other bad habits include shaky hands, which, if you start from the bottom, you can always maintain a steady hand, because you're always playing something around your comfort zone.

That's just some points. I'm not saying that playing insane+nofail is very bad or anything, but doing only that wont help.
Also Aqo, yes you get better at everything, even if you play normals.
Oh btw, I have a little under 70k plays now over 4 years, and I can say that I've never once used the method you describe, and have no problems becoming good at the game, while people I know who've done what you say, struggle with atleast one of the problems I describe above.
In almost anything, the basics must be there before you can become good at it.

And I still suck at streams, but that doesn't mean I can't stream, I just don't have the speed to do the faster ones, and that's something you can train AFTER you can stream.

Still, the best advice is probably just not caring about how to improve, and just play whatever you feel like and find fun; that's what I did anyhow, and no matter how fast/slow you improve, you'll get better while having fun, so it's worth it.
posted

CXu wrote:

If you start from the basics, you stimulate your brain to actually know that no, you don't hit a note when it appears, but ACTUALLY when the approach circle hits.
I agree the approach circle will help you, but I wouldn't stop there because I think it helps even more to know when to hit a note by only listening to the music. This is something you can also learn at the beginning by playing Normal or Hard maps with Hidden. Besides good reaction skills, having good musical skills helps too.
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