Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Mapping Discussion

Nazi-modding is not the way to go.

posted
Total Posts
109
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Rolled
mini-rant.

"nazi-modding" has become somewhat of an accepted/expected fad now, consisting of 1-grid note alterations and the likes. Honestly, this is a waste of the mapper's time and a waste of the modder's time to point these out and have them fixed. You shouldn't have to try to find things wrong in a beatmap. If there's something legitimately wrong with a map, it will be very noticeable.

The best way to mod, hands down, is just to play the beatmap. If a part of the map trips you up, make a mental note of it and then post a comment about it in the beatmap's thread, and what you think they should do about it. If notes 1 and 2 are one grid closer than notes 2 and 3, and that trips you up, quit osu.

The only time I find nazi-modding remotely acceptable, is if it's clear that the mapper was going for a symmetrical pattern and it got misaligned slightly. Then and only then is when I am not bothered by "move note x 2 grids to the left"
YellowerYoshi
197 posts
Joined March 2009
YellowerYoshi
I don't have much experience in the modding department, nor would I be able to nazi-mod anything in the first place, so I can't speak on that side of things.

I have, however, been nazi-modded to death on Love-coloured Master Spark. It's really irritating to see a new mod on your beatmap only to see a dozen instances of "move this one pixel left" and the like. It makes the process of perfecting a beatmap a painful one when you're just slightly moving things instead of making legitimate fixes and improvements.
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann

Rolled wrote:

The only time I find nazi-modding remotely acceptable, is if it's clear that the mapper was going for a symmetrical pattern and it got misaligned slightly. Then and only then is when I am not bothered by "move note x 2 grids to the left"
I'd extend that beyond symmetry to any time something looks like it's supposed to be lined up with something else, but is a little off. If I see something and it looks "off" to me, I'll comment on it.* It's about polish.

*Not that I actually mod
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley
If something just looks plain ugly I'll point it out.
And I kinda like Nazi-modding cos I want my maps to look as good as possible.
Ryuukun
476 posts
Joined December 2008
Ryuukun
I did that kind of modding some time but gave it up after a while.
Its tiring and useless.
A map should be good playable and not be the winner of a beauty contest.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
Sticky/announcement in pending?
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Rolled

Echo wrote:

Sticky/announcement in pending?
+1

edit: eh, rather than trying to enforce my opinions on people, I'd rather just leave this up for some discussion first.

Also you guys are getting the wrong idea. I don't personally think most suggestions made by nazi-mods effect the map at all. And I don't think if the user doesn't change the mentioned spots, it makes it less good looking. <-- Butchered english. Hopefully you get the point.

For example (sorry to single you out, the person who pointed this spot out on my map. In his defense, he did say he wasn't sure)



The 8 note is 1 grid too far away from the 7? How do you even notice things like that? How could it confuse the player in the least bit? How does it effect the map cosmetically at all? :/
Cyclone
osu! Hall of Famer
1,975 posts
Joined July 2008
Cyclone
*deletes all text just typed*

As luigi said. (almost word for word >_>)
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
I agree that naziing should be more polishing than nit-picking.

Sadly I have done some bad naziing in the past but have hopefully learned to sock it put in a.

Now a question: would modifying difficult levels be considered naziing?
Sinistro
osu! Alumni
1,412 posts
Joined January 2008
Sinistro
Yes. I'd only accept these minute changes for when it otherwise makes the beatmap obviously ugly and it's easily fixed. Otherwise, seeing fifty lines of "move 2 grids 3 to the left" kind of makes my blood boil.
Jinxy
2,777 posts
Joined February 2009
Jinxy
When I started modding, I went a little nazi over every map but now i rarely do it. I just search stuff that is off. The only time I ask people to move by small grids is when they are trying to make a shape using beats (eg. rhombus) and fail to do so. (The beats look randomly placed instead)
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
The meaning of "intuitive spacing" seems to have gone downhill.

My nazi mods (which I don't do anymore) were always to do with symmetry or pattern, not actual beatspacing.

I've heard stories of people who actually go through and check each note for beatspacing; I had no idea this was actually true. If you have the time to do this sort of thing, you have no life.

I don't think an announcement/sticky in pending is a bad place for a discussion.
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
Quite honestly, I am the professional nazimod, but there is a limit to everything. People who purposely check for beatspacing...no, just no. Not everything is perfect 100% of the time, sometimes people even throw imperfection into their maps on purpose so it's more intuitive and it looks more polished. However, I am going to say that I do nazimod to give peoples' maps a certain level of polish that should be in a ranked beatmap. It's to perfect it as much as it can be on all fronts while still conforming to the mapper's style.

Far too many times have people come after me, saying "WHY DON'T YOU JUST MAP THE SONG YOURSELF INSTEAD OF BEING ALL 'NEW COMBO' 'CHANGE TO WHISTLE' ETC?", and the thing is, if I wanted to map it, and I thought I could have done it better, I would have mapped it. It's so simple to say that, but come on people, it's combo numbers and hitsounds, I'm still conforming to your style while making it make sense and look better.

tl;dr: If you're going "+0.5 gird to the left" and stuff, stop and actually play the map, see if it actually affects you.

tl;dr 2: I nazimod to give a map a certain level of polish that should be in every ranked beatmap (guidelines don't count for style, they count for playability, people).

tl;dr 3: If you ever yell at me, saying "WHY DON'T YOU JUST MAP IT YOURSELF!?", I will punch you in the face multiple times over the internet.
Metroid
834 posts
Joined May 2008
Metroid
Nazi modding is best for when the map has no major errors, when it's bubbled, and when the mapper is a veteran one.


Then again, I'm a big supporter of Nazi modding.

Also, I agree with Mogs.
Nazi modding never messes with someone's style....

But I also believe a Nazi Mod Post can't pop a bubble or keep a map from rankage since there are no unrankable errors or things that can push the map from a bubble.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Rolled

Metroid wrote:

Nazi modding is best for when the map has no major errors, when it's bubbled, and when the mapper is a veteran one.
o_O
Real1
968 posts
Joined September 2008
Real1
I don't mind if people nazi my maps. In fact, I actually like it! The better my maps get, the better. So if you wanna nazi someone's map, do it with mine! I appreciate it!

However, I do understand people who are against it. I mean, let's say a mapper spent 10 hours on a map, and proudly uploads it. 20 minutes later, his creation has a 50 sentence nazi post. It's a bit... Demotivating.
eee
692 posts
Joined January 2008
eee

Rolled wrote:

For example (sorry to single you out, the person who pointed this spot out on my map. In his defense, he did say he wasn't sure)
OH, OH, I pointed that out, me, me. . . . . . what, it's not necessarily a good thing?. . . . . . . oh, hmmm, yeah,
and to even things out, I thought that was on a blue tick on my first try and got a 50, even though my accuracy is no good in the first place. The "wasn't sure" part was saying that it was probably my accuracy and reading the spacing.
I somewhat agree on this thread though. Modders should REALLY try to find the major, or even slight "errors" of a map that make it unrankable. I DID find something in that map though.
. . . and cease
Ryuukun
476 posts
Joined December 2008
Ryuukun

Metroid wrote:

Nazi modding is best for when the map has no major errors, when it's bubbled, and when the mapper is a veteran one.
no.
Ii'm not a veteran but my maps got nazi modded like crazy.
Its like some people are searching for at least 1 little misstake to get a Kudo.
I've done that too but its really not the way to do it.
Thats why i hardly mod any Bubbled maps.
Otium_old
127 posts
Joined February 2009
Otium_old
I have nothing against Nazi-modding. Though, after reciving my first nazi-modding post, I started to make all my maps on Grind level 3 and try to check so that they actually look good before declaring them done.
(Has lots of maps that is waiting to get submitted...)
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

Ryuukun wrote:

Metroid wrote:

Nazi modding is best for when the map has no major errors, when it's bubbled, and when the mapper is a veteran one.
Its like some people are searching for at least 1 little mistake to get a Kudo.
This. You shouldn't have to look for mistakes and imperfections. If there's a problem, you will most likely see and will tell the mapper. This feels like a fight for kudosu, which it shouldn't be. :|
eee
692 posts
Joined January 2008
eee
Also, this doesn't stop me from naz-eeemodding, probably nazi modding, but not naz-eeemodding,
my best advice is JUST DON'T DO IT, I've skipped tons of nazi modz, no need to complain. who wants to listen to a nazi, right?
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

eee wrote:

Also, this doesn't stop me from naz-eeemodding, probably nazi modding, but not naz-eeemodding,
my best advice is JUST DON'T DO IT, I've skipped tons of nazi modz, no need to complain. who wants to listen to a nazi, right?
I enjoy naziing. (EDIT: I mean, I enjoy being nazi'd. I mean ... I enjoy people naziing my maps.) Remember that you don't have to take every suggestion. At least go through and see if each nazi makes sense and could affect gameplay or appearance.
Real1
968 posts
Joined September 2008
Real1

Otium wrote:

after reciving my first nazi-modding post[/size]
Was that the post from me? :?
RemmyX25
osu! Alumni
3,087 posts
Here since the beginning
RemmyX25
Yea, 1 grid spacing on grid lv 3 is just not worth the effort. if there is a jump, it probably was intended. CheeseWarlock can vouch for me when i say this- i looked at his "L's Theme map, i commented on only one jump because it looked bad. It was a minor jump, but fixing it made it look better. The other jumps didnt look bad at all, this was the only badly noticable one.

tl;dr: Does it look BAD? Does it make the map NOT FUN or ANNOYING? (or both?) If you answered no to both of these, then you don't need to comment on a hitcircle one gridspace off.
Gens
osu! Alumni
3,485 posts
Joined August 2008
Gens
I don't nazi-mod anymore because, if I see *small* imperfections on the map, it's the mapper choice to leave it as is or change it. It's the mapper's reputation, not mine. D:

Of course, I'd nazi-mod if someone wants to, but only few people has asked that.
lukewarmholiday
2,148 posts
Joined June 2008
lukewarmholiday
I mod for how it plays, if people care to nazi mod I wont say its wrong but have fun trying to be a BAT. Nothing wrong with pointing out flaws unless BATs are trying to hold ranks for things like one grid off.

Only things I think people should nazi to death are repeating sliders which almost everyone can agree when used improperly can seriously mess up the flow of a map. Of course the irritability of repeating sliders varies immensely on how they are used, how well they fit the rythm, IF THEY END IN THE DIRECTION THAT YOUR MIND THINKS THEY WILL END. Some mappers still try to have a slider repeat 3 times for one section then 4 times out of the blue for another section.



Honestly here's how you should mod.

Open up the map in play(or test if you're a bad player) and play through it, take note of anything that breaks your combo or flow, point it out.

Bam, a modded map.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

lukewarmholiday wrote:

Only things I think people should nazi to death are repeating sliders which almost everyone can agree when used improperly can seriously mess up the flow of a map. Of course the irritability of repeating sliders varies immensely on how they are used, how well they fit the rythm, IF THEY END IN THE DIRECTION THAT YOUR MIND THINKS THEY WILL END. Some mappers still try to have a slider repeat 3 times for one section then 4 times out of the blue for another section.
I agree that many short repeating sliders are horrible. Not many in ranked maps, but they're there. I disagree with all sliders because some longer (two or more beats, sometimes one and a half beats)) repeating sliders are effective. My main issue with repeats, though, is that some are too long and some are too short in total length. This isn't as much of a problem if only a break follows, but it's annoying in faster maps like that Yu-Gi-Oh mix one where you don't know when they end.

</mini-rant>

lukewarmholiday wrote:

Honestly here's how you should mod.

Open up the map in play(or test if you're a bad player) and play through it, take note of anything that breaks your combo or flow, point it out.

Bam, a modded map.
That's what I do mostly. If I notice spacing issues (with patterns, etc.) or timing issues (e.g. with slider starts) in the editor I usually point that out, too. Also, I sometimes save replays so I can go back and see my mistakes and not have to remember everything.

/me just had an idea for a feature request.
/me posts.
/me has posted.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto
I nazi mod a bit sometimes (e.g. 00:01:99 (1) - 1 Level 3 grid to the right), but usually when I do that, I noticed immediately when I saw the note that something is spaced wrongly OR when something isn't perfectly symmetric when the mapper tries to have it symmetric, and I think this is the limit. If you notice while playing that some note is spaced just a tad too far away or too close, or if you intend to have something perfectly symmetric, naziing is totally alright with me.
However, I see this kind of modding as optional.
There's also this bad kind of nazi modding that makes you mod a map for 1 hour just to have everything super perfectly spaced. This kind of modding usually sucks and is very annoying. If someone suggests stuff like that on my map, I proceed to make an annoyed face, however I do most of it, 'cos I'm a perfectionist. I still think that it's stupid.

tldr: Nazi modding is good if:
- You notice the errors immediately when seeing them.
- You try to get perfect symmetry in your map.

Nazi modding is not good if:
- The player wouldn't even notice a difference while playing.

No exceptions.
James
osu! Hall of Famer
4,371 posts
Joined January 2008
James
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

James wrote:

To those who mod with combocolors instead of 1-grid shit:
Please take a look at the pattern of the map first?
They might not follow the vocals...
They might follow the symmetrical patterns of the map layout...
They may intentionally not following the time signature(?) because
...Basically its the same as 1-grid shit.
I'm a combo nazi myself. I may close attention to combos greater than 8 or 12 notes (depending on the song). I also look out for single-note combos and make sure they make sense. (Creativity counts as sense; a mistake doesn't.)

If all your combos are off by one, e.g. vocals are mapped and they start on the fourth beat of a measure (in 4/4), and the combos start on the first beat of a measure, I mention that.

Switching instruments calls for spacing change, slider style change, and a new combo, as another example of what to mod for combos.

I'm guilty of messing up combos on a pattern but luckily it was mentioned and corrected. I'm grateful, EEeee.

Another note: you list a lot of "maybe"'s but no "definitely"'s, James, making it sound as if modding combos is completely wrong because the author intended it to be like that.

TL;DR because we're all doing it:
James is wrong about combo modding. It's okay to combo mod.
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Soaprman
I've tried nazi-modding before. I felt like I was wasting both my time and the mapper's while doing it. The kudosu are attractive and all but nazi-modding is boring as hell. It's not worth it.

So now I just mod by playing the map and noting the spots that either threw me off or looked ugly. Often, I end up saying the map has no errors.

Whenever I map (even though I only have one map and it's in pending, lol) the comments I tend to value the most are the ones that say something like "I had fun playing this". I wish it was appropriate to give kudosu for that...

Thanks for posting this, Rolled.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
Spacing
Don't point them out unless it's painfully obvious when you play through the song. If you need to use the beatspacing lock or need to count the grids to tell it's not spaced right, then you're not modding correctly.

Combo colours
Only point this out when the map gets into double digits too frequently. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

And what's this about nazi modding for kudos? You get kudos only and only if the mapper found your post helpful. Personally, I find nazi posts completely useless and I would never give kudosu to nazi mod posts
vytalibus
osu! Alumni
870 posts
Joined May 2008
vytalibus

Echo wrote:

Combo colours
Only point this out when the map gets into double digits too frequently. Otherwise you're wasting your time.
Actually, I also consider whenever a certain combo drains too much from the life bar, yet the HP drain rate seems to be okay on most parts. If a combo spans for more than five seconds, I might ask for him to change his patterns or just reassemble the combo markings.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Topic Starter
Rolled
I'm going to be blatantly forward and rude in this post.

If you are a nazi mod, or if you are for nazi-modding, you are misinformed and probably haven't been around that long.

As I've said, it's become a fad that has rooted from one or two people (right about the time when community modding ((not BAT modding)) has been admired) and has spread to the majority of the new-modding community, since it's what they see being done in their maps.

If 1-grid alterations were required for a beatmap to be ranked, it'd be in the criteria. And if it was a big deal in the least bit, the editor would be more strict when placing notes. If you use distance/grid snap throughout an entire map, it's not likely you will have many/any spacing errors. Your map be bit a bit boring and straight-forward, but there should be nothing holding your map back from ranking.

There are two-exceptions of nazi-modding to this post. See the screenshots:



^Go ahead and point out the 4. It's clear they were going for a symmetrical, straight stairs-like pattern and a circle got misaligned.



^Point out the 4 as well. This one is a square-pattern, and a circle got misaligned. (apply this to larger square-jumps as well. If you plan to make a square, best way to do it is with horizontal/vertical flips. If they don't line up it may be okay to point out a few-grid alterations that can be done.

Any nazi-mod alterations that do not involve symmetry is wrong.

James
osu! Hall of Famer
4,371 posts
Joined January 2008
James
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Echo
osu! Alumni
3,008 posts
Here since the beginning
Echo
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

James wrote:

strager wrote:

blablabla
yes, its OK to combo mod. i didnt say its wrong, but try to look at the pattern/symmetry of the map first.
they might be following the bgm and you keep on enforcing to use a new combo because you thought they are following the vocals...

... which is completely wrong.

and some people might add more combocolors because the map's drain rate is too high and they DONT want to change it.

some people also wants to KEEP their combos less than 10/12... forcing them to add combos > than 12 is a no no. especially for bats who doesnt want to bubble/star a map because the mapper doesnt want to change such trivial things like this.
K, that's what I meant myself, but it didn't seem you meant that from your post.

James wrote:

you might be a nazi mod but im sure i'm far better than you when it comes to modding.
you nazi and i use my brain. (no offence)
I take this as a personal attack.

@Rolled, Yes, I agree. <3
vytalibus
osu! Alumni
870 posts
Joined May 2008
vytalibus

Echo wrote:

vytalibus wrote:

Actually, I also consider whenever a certain combo drains too much from the life bar,
That's impossible because peppy's hp drain algorithm takes that into account.
Algorithmically the HP drain caters to the whole song and the hitcircle/slider patterns, but I'm talking about extreme cases where the HP goes dangerously low in certain parts. A classic example of this would be the original Airman map where with the new updates, the life bar gets drained out on the part where you'll probably think a break should be in (AKA that instrumental part).

Note that I've used the term "extreme" to describe how rarely this happens. Nowadays, mappers are too scared to put a very high HP drain rate.
Detective Tuesday
233 posts
Here since the beginning
Detective Tuesday
Nazi-modding is DUMB. If I could add anything that Rolled or others haven't said already, I would.

I'll just reiterate the most important point: Don't judge "mis-stacks" by how they look in the editor. If they play normally, they're passable.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 109