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Top 5 hardest maps

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Porsche
30 posts
Joined April 2012
Porsche
I am representing Jesus1412

Excluding low drain:


IOSYS - Utage wa Eien ni ~SHD~ [TAG4] This isn't possible (giant fullscreen 1/4 streams.)
Nico Nico Douga - U.N. Owen wa Kanojo nanoka? (Nico Mega Mix)[TAG4] This isn't possible (giant fullscreen 1/4 square streams.)
beatMARIO - Night of Knights [TAG4] This isn't possible (nonsense ending 1/4 1/2 1/1 streams with crazy spacing and no logical patterns at the end.)
Nico Nico Douga - BARUSA of MIKOSU [TAG4] This isn't possible (nonsense ending 1/4 1/2 1/1 streams with crazy spacing and no logical patterns at the end.)
xi - FREEDOM DiVE [FOUR DIMENSIONS] This is just about possible (spaced fast streams especially the ending streams.)
Last edited by Porsche , edited 2 times in total.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

BRBP wrote:

What silmarilen said, except that I don't think Pluto is in top 5.
try playing it without ht
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
fartownik
2,189 posts
Joined December 2008
fartownik
1. Freedom Dive - if you don't have enough of stamina, you won't even pass. You probably won't pass even if you'd have enough because of the spacing.
2. Atama no Taisou - 240bpm squares, nothing much to comment here.
3. Rainbow Dash - low AR + squares. Low AR makes the map a lot less attractive for the people that could actually FC/play it pretty well.
4. Shotgun Symphony - old map, still unbeaten. Hard because of the very bad quality, small notes and low AR.
5. Airman - jumps all over the screen!

Didn't put TAG maps as they're indeed the hardest ones, but they weren't meant to be played solo and play just stupid while doing so.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

fartownik wrote:

1. Freedom Dive - if you don't have enough of stamina, you won't even pass. You probably won't pass even if you'd have enough because of the spacing.
2. Atama no Taisou - 240bpm squares, nothing much to comment here.
3. Rainbow Dash - low AR + squares. Low AR makes the map a lot less attractive for the people that could actually FC/play it pretty well.
4. Shotgun Symphony - old map, still unbeaten. Hard because of the very bad quality, small notes and low AR.
5. Airman - jumps all over the screen!

Didn't put TAG maps as they're indeed the hardest ones, but they weren't meant to be played solo and play just stupid while doing so.
Shotgun Symphony is hard because of the stream spacing and how the streams overlap themselves. The other reasons you stated aren't actually hard on it.
Airman is hard to FC because of left/right part and long set of 1/2s with no break.
Rainbow dash is hard because it's fast and highly spaced with long 1/2 sets. Same reason as atama. Low AR isn't the hard part on it (altho it contributes to the difficulty, higher AR doesn't make it easy)
boat
2,369 posts
Joined February 2010
boat
Hard by what definition? Hard to me that I would play or maps that I know are too hard for me to even bother playing?
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Aqo wrote:

fartownik wrote:

1. Freedom Dive - if you don't have enough of stamina, you won't even pass. You probably won't pass even if you'd have enough because of the spacing.
2. Atama no Taisou - 240bpm squares, nothing much to comment here.
3. Rainbow Dash - low AR + squares. Low AR makes the map a lot less attractive for the people that could actually FC/play it pretty well.
4. Shotgun Symphony - old map, still unbeaten. Hard because of the very bad quality, small notes and low AR.
5. Airman - jumps all over the screen!

Didn't put TAG maps as they're indeed the hardest ones, but they weren't meant to be played solo and play just stupid while doing so.
Shotgun Symphony is hard because of the stream spacing and how the streams overlap themselves. The other reasons you stated aren't actually hard on it.
Airman is hard to FC because of left/right part and long set of 1/2s with no break.
Rainbow dash is hard because it's fast and highly spaced with long 1/2 sets. Same reason as atama. Low AR isn't the hard part on it (altho it contributes to the difficulty, higher AR doesn't make it easy)
is this an e-peen post?
ar might not be hard for you, but it is harder for others.

With no mod on atama and rainbow dash likes girls i get a C rank while on hr i can get B so it's just preference.

Airman is hard to FC because of the CONSTANT huge spaced jumps that a lot of people would fail if it didn't have -50hpdrain. Same for atama and rainbow dash, you could hit less than half the squares/jumps and still pass the map (i did this when i was less skilled than i am now, i just camped 1/4 notes in constant 1/2s on parts i couldn't do).

shotgun symphony is hard because it's a terrible map
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
Quite a difference between hard to FC and hard to pass/stay alive; though I do hope you're asking for the latter.
Purple
467 posts
Joined May 2011
Purple
I'm ignoring maps beyond my BPM limit in this post.

1. Can't Defeat Airman - Requires lots of concentration, some patterns are hard to read.
2. Shotgun Symphony - Very hard to read, tiny circles, fast sliders
3. Kirby Mix Compilation Deluxe - Long map, spaced 200 BPM streams
4. He Has No Mittens BD's Mittens - Long square jumps
5. The Big Black - Requires very good accuracy (i.e. timing on the slider jumps and the spaced streams)
Loves
446 posts
Joined December 2012
Loves
Ranked:

1. Shotgun Symphony - Horribly mapped, confuses the crap out of 99.9% of players.

2. Freedom Dive - 222bpm streams all day for 5 minutes.

3. Rainbow Dash - Low AR and hard patterns

4. Atama no Taisou - 240bpm and hard patterns

5. Joint Struggle (?) - Hard spacing. Sliders/circles placed awkwardly.

TAG4/2 maps don't count since they're meant for multiple players.
Soarezi
Soarezi
Pluto is not that hard map, the jumps are well placed imo.
#1 Freedom dive: insane stamina & good aiming required, must maintain the good aim even if you get tired.
#2 Rainbow dash: problem with this is the Low AR, across map jumps too.
#3 Atama no taisou: same problem with AR, jumps are manageable though.
#4 Airman : I'm just generally bad at jumps so yeah.
#5 Big black: just because of how horribly the map is made. :-)
Loves
446 posts
Joined December 2012
Loves
I highly doubt Freedom Dive is the hardest out there. Maybe the most infamous for it's demand for extreme stamina and speed but that's it.

The hardest maps lie in the pre 2010 era where maps are so badly made that playing them and getting good accuracy on them is considered an achievement.
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN
As far as passing goes... (and excluding tag4s for obvious purposes)

#1 - FREEDOM DiVE: infinistreams that the fewest of players can pass due to the extreme finger stamina and consistent aim required to not miss. I haven't passed this. D:
#2 - Atama no Taisou: the infamous squares are incredibly hard to pass provided you're not using tag4 map strategies(I did that).
#3 - The Big Black: tough overall difficulty, but has a few spots that puts this on #3; the square slider jump parts around the map, and the fucking end spaced stream that kills 90% of everyone that can do the rest of the map.
#4 - Rainbow Dash Likes Girls: super wide jumps everywhere and difficult patterns. It also has a 220bpm stream in the middle somewhere that is very difficult to hit due to the spacing.
#5 - Kokou no Sousei: terrifying map. It never lets up on the pressure, and will keep you on your toes for five very long and very stressful minutes.

Honorary mention: Shotgun Symphony+, but that's a shitmap so yeah.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

BRBP wrote:

trap Black American - you just activated my trap card
I'd SS it with HR + DT but I find the 600bpm stream a bit too difficult because it starts outside of the screen :(

fripSide - only my railgun (Jubeatsu)
HR without disabling skin/sb 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

Please define "hardest" unless you want everyone to keep posting the same maps.
hardest = the most difficult

no point posting stupid unranked maps that don't even make sense/impossible
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:)
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
Rokusho
76 posts
Joined November 2011
Rokusho
How about the DragonForce maps? Lots of streams with small circle size makes it hard to FC.
Probably because most songs from DragonForce are pretty long it requires more stamina, that could be the reason there are not many FCs on those maps imo.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
i was also thinking about the dragonforce maps, but in the end i chose to not put them in my top5 because there are harder maps
Pizzicato
2,739 posts
Joined February 2011
Pizzicato
#1 freedom dive
#2 Atama no taisou
#3 Black hole - Pluto
#4 Yousei teikoku - the creator (nyaten)
#5 Kokou no sousei (chaos)
Hiryuu_old
439 posts
Joined June 2011
Hiryuu_old
#1: xi - FREEDOM DiVE (Four Dimensions)
#2: Hatsune Miku - Atama no Taisou (Nogard)
#3: The Quick Brown Fox - The Big Black (WHO'S AFRAID OF THE BIG BLACK)
#4: Renard - Rainbow Dash Likes Girls (Stay Gay Pony Girl) [Holy Shit! It's Rainbow Dash!!]
#5: Kitsune^2 - Rainbow Tylenol (Hell)

I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot of mentioning for Rainbow Tylenol, the hardest difficulty there is pretty much what the difficulty has been set for, which is hell in a nutshell.
sorgenehtyals
49 posts
Joined September 2012
sorgenehtyals
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/205143
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/175888
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/190973

say hi to autobot from me
Metro
692 posts
Joined April 2010
Metro
Hatsune Miku - Atama no Taisou [Nogard]
xi - FREEDOM DiVE [FOUR DIMENSIONS]
Team Nekokan - Can't Defeat Airman [Holy Shit! It's Airman!!]
Renard - Rainbow Dash Likes Girls (Stay Gay Pony Girl) [Holy Shit! It's Rainbow Dash!!]
The Quick Brown Fox - The Big Black [WHO'S AFRAID OF THE BIG BLACK]
and Black Hole - Pluto [Challenge]
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Tom94
Not counting Tag4 maps, unranked maps or and mod combinations other than none!

#1 Hatsune Miku - Atama no Taisou [Nogard]
Craziest ranked squares in the game. High BPM screenjumps combines with short streams.

#2 Renard - Rainbow Dash Likes Girls (Stay Gay Pony Girl) [Holy Shit! It's Rainbow Dash!!]
Most likely the hardest map regarding jumps only. Speed-wise it's a bit below Atama no Taisou.

#3 xi - FREEDOM DiVE [FOUR DIMENSIONS]
By far the hardest stream map. Not in terms of peak speed, but in terms of stamina and aim.

#4 Team Nekokan - Can't Defeat Airman [Holy Shit! It's Airman!!]
An extremely hard jump map.

#5 The Quick Brown Fox - The Big Black [WHO'S AFRAID OF THE BIG BLACK]
Another extremely hard jump map with insane stream spacing in the end.


Good luck on making a nice beatmap rating. Would be nice to see a better than the current system go live officially.
ethox
osu! Alumni
357 posts
Joined August 2010
ethox
Here it is gentlemen, Haters gonna hate - the official thread


Inspector K remixed by CanBlaster - Disconnected Hardkore
[tap tap] by sprosive

Small circles 245 BPM with 4x slider velocity. Meant to be an Auto-mod map, but is still passable to a certain degree.

Blind Stare - Shotgun Symphony+
[Impossibly Intense] by awp

Self-explanatory, scores are still up for grabs.

Ryo - Shuffle Heaven
[Frantic] by ignorethis

Streams jumps, triplets that back up, etnasliders, squares, notes in patterns that make no sense; this map has everything.

xi - FREEDOM DiVE
[FOUR DIMENSIONS] by Nakagawa-Kanon

Stamina.

sampling masters MEGA VS Seiryu - VOX UP
[Sp's Darkness] by sprosive

This old classic with crazy jumps and unrecognizable patterns at AR9 has been a cornerstone of hard maps since it's creation. Nostalgia value +10

Suzaku - Vanessa
[Extra] by La Cataline

The only "low BPM" song which I'd list up. Incorporates spaced streams and has funky triplet switch-ups using an etna slider and a note.


They're in no particular somewhat of an order, just 5 maps which are nice and hard. It was really sad for me not to list up any of the KIRBY MIX, but they really are not all that hard.

Got the list down to 5, yay!
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Ephemeral I know why you guys are now working on this (probably want to get some accurate difficulty rating system) but why would you make a public thread asking everyone "what the hardest maps are" when over 99,99% of osu! users have no idea what they are talking about? (Based on the fact they can't play those maps)

___

On-topic: Agreeing with Tom. FREEDOM DiVE's rank could be argued actually. Highly drilled map by many pros and still the only one player who can consistenly play this is Cookiezi. It is hard to decide if it is because the map is actually harder or because top players are actually way worse at hard streaming than jumps.

There are some KIRBY maps which are hard as fuck but guess they won't make it to the top 5 now.

Some touchy subject is how to handle the AR thing. Dragonforce maps are kind of hard mainly because AR 8, same happens with some KIRBY maps which use low ARs, or legendary maps like Chocobo where the only issue is AR -600. And of course this depends on the player, but yet people who are good at very low ARs are usually (afaik) not good at high ARs. Best solution (I wouldn't really like it tho) would be to make it user definable so you can ignore that topic but... idk.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Wishy wrote:

Some touchy subject is how to handle the AR thing. Dragonforce maps are kind of hard mainly because AR 8, same happens with some KIRBY maps which use low ARs, or legendary maps like Chocobo where the only issue is AR -600. And of course this depends on the player, but yet people who are good at very low ARs are usually (afaik) not good at high ARs. Best solution (I wouldn't really like it tho) would be to make it user definable so you can ignore that topic but... idk.
AR should never be a part of difficulty calculation since you can always override it with memorization. Map difficulty boils down to the object placement.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
lets not turn this into a discussion about what makes maps hard and what not.
keep posting the 5 (ranked, otherwise i could just post 5 diffs of LQGR) maps you personally find the hardest
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

silmarilen wrote:

lets not turn this into a discussion about what makes maps hard and what not.
but isn't this the main point here? Eph wants to get a list of maps to know what makes a map hard.

The things that make a map hard are obvious
1. Long spaced 1/2s without a break
2. Long 1/4s without a break

Anything that lasts for at least a 1/1 is a break, be it a slider or a 'nothing'.
The hardest jump map would be the map with the longest set of 1/2s in a row in it that have the largest combined spacing and highest bpm/speed, whereas the hardest stream map would be the map with the longest set of 1/4s in a row with the largest bpm/speed.

It's really not something you need to collect opinions on, it's pretty factual. The only "question" here would be whether jump or stream is harder, and the answer is -neither-. They're both separate skills and should be quantified separately. If two maps are solely jump-difficult and stream-difficult per, a large group of players might find one harder than the other while another group would see it the other way around.

I find it highly amusing that nobody is listening Chipscape in top5.
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

Aqo wrote:

AR should never be a part of difficulty calculation since you can always override it with memorization. Map difficulty boils down to the object placement.
Map difficulty is also based on how hard to comprehend the map is, like it or not if the AR is low and you need to memorize the map that means the map is too hard for you to read/follow/understand and all you can do is memorize it. If a map is easy on AR 9 yet really hard on AR 3 it means AR is a big part of what makes the map difficult.

Saying "memory solves" is dumb, if you need to memorize a map because you can't properly read it then the map is hard to read = the map is hard. Best real solution is to make AR user definable and that's it, but we know big changes never really happen in osu!.

And I agree with Aqo, silmarilen, the whole point of this map is (I guess...) to get feedback about what maps are hard and what maps should come up as the hardest ones, we ALL know what the hardest 5~10 maps are, there is NO POINT having lots of people to post them + some random guys who post maps that are not even hard or are just hard because they make no sense.
Last edited by Wishy , edited 1 time in total.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Wishy wrote:

Map difficulty is also based on how hard to comprehend the map is, like it or not if the AR is low and you need to memorize the map that means the map is too hard for you to read/follow/understand and all you can do is memorize it. If a map is easy on AR 9 yet really hard on AR 3 it means AR is a big part of what makes the map difficult.
The AR doesn't change how you play the map.

This, again, boils down to how poorly the question in the op was defined. If you'd want "hardest to read" maps then AR would matter, but that's different than "hardest to play", and so on. We can only guess which one is it.

User definable AR can be nice as an unranked option for fun but it definied shouldn't be a ranked option since like you said it's a difficulty and making it user defined would be like making OD user defined or bpm user defined. "oh I can't stream 220bpm so I'll just set the bpm to 180" same thing with AR really lol :b
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

Aqo wrote:

Wishy wrote:

Map difficulty is also based on how hard to comprehend the map is, like it or not if the AR is low and you need to memorize the map that means the map is too hard for you to read/follow/understand and all you can do is memorize it. If a map is easy on AR 9 yet really hard on AR 3 it means AR is a big part of what makes the map difficult.
The AR doesn't change how you play the map.

This, again, boils down to how poorly the question in the op was defined. If you'd want "hardest to read" maps then AR would matter, but that's different than "hardest to play", and so on. We can only guess which one is it.
Playing = everything. Playing a map involves reading the map, if the map is hard to read then the map is hard. You can't argue this, really.

Comparing AR to OD/BPM is retarded, as you said AR does not change the map itself but how it looks, and in most (pretty much every actually) rhythm game it is user defined, cause yeah making something hard because "lololol let's stack 5813298935 objects at the same time" sucks.
Last edited by Wishy , edited 1 time in total.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
The thing is, reading is non-comparable, while physical difficulties *are*. You don't get much info out of knowing that some people have trouble reading some pattern style while for others it's easy. It will be completely random.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

Aqo wrote:

The thing is, reading is non-comparable, while physical difficulties *are*. You don't get much info out of knowing that some people have trouble reading some pattern style while for others it's easy. It will be completely random.
Now we're getting somewhere. AR does have something (a lot) to do with difficulty since the most important aspect of the game is, in my opinion, reading the map. Remember how Cookiezi could clear that Shoushitsu (hommarju remix) map ages ago and even now you get players like Niko do it with AR 10.3 instead or 9? That's map reading and even among pros it is probably the most important skill.

Now, talking about how you measure how hard to read a map is, you are right, you can't really do that, ok no probably you can yet it would be ridiculously complex to do and would still be kind of player based to some point (people telling me AR 10.3 is the best yet I can't see shit at that speed so I'd rather play AR 8 DT). That's why I was talking about letting users define the AR, it is something that will probably bug and annoy the whole difficulty rating system forever since it is almost impossible to accurately measure.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Wishy wrote:

That's why I was talking about letting users define the AR, it is something that will probably bug and annoy the whole difficulty rating system forever since it is almost impossible to accurately measure.
It seems like you didn't understand what I said earlier.

Right now you say: AR is a difficulty.
However, BPM and OD are also difficulties. That's what they're similar on.

You agree that having user-definable BPM and OD would be unfair and let users get around difficulty without gaining the skills needed to play it.
So, how is AR different? If it takes skill, then it shouldn't be user definable. Learn to read it, or deal with not being to play it, until you get better.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
I agree with that yet OD and BPM can actually be measured while AR on the other hand can't. I'd prefer the game how it is now YET it is true that the AR issue will always be there, you might aswell ignore it yet you will get maps like Chocobo show up as "not very hard" while actually it is hard as fuck because of low AR.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Had a long and cool discussion with Aqo, our conclusion was you guys developing this system probably won't get it at all so ignore the whole AR issue.
Soarezi
Soarezi

Aqo wrote:

I find it highly amusing that nobody is listening Chipscape in top5.
Chipscape is button spammable, hardest part is the deathstream.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Soarezi wrote:

Chipscape is button spammable, hardest part is the deathstream.
Hardest part is the entire map.
You should measure difficulty by how hard it is to play a map correctly, not by how hard it is to spam buttons and survive a run on it with HP drain 3.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
It's funny how people use the "buttom spammable" excuse and then you go see the map's scoreboard and there are like just a few FCs, some As with 94~95% and then all bad scores.
Mismagius
9,237 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

Wishy wrote:

It's funny how people use the "buttom spammable" excuse and then you go see the map's scoreboard and there are like just a few FCs, some As with 94~95% and then all bad scores.
hey my score isn't bad just because it has low accuracy
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