Why am I still rank 600 in pp2
don't like a thread? discuss ppv2 there. guraranteed lock!winber1 wrote:
and yet another thread will be locked because ppv2
gg
But you also have to remember that most hard farmers aren't pro such as myself. I farm hards a lot, but give me something actually difficult, and I will fail utterly.Kaoru wrote:
If you guys want this thread to live, I suggest scrapping the ppv2 discussion. It will devolve into baseless criticism and get locked.
My personal opinion on pp farmers (as a pp farmer):
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).
So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
That's the thing though. There are only a handful of well-known pp farmers. The ones with high ranks are usually able to pull off skillful plays. Maybe their plays may not be what you should expect from a high ranked player, but that doesn't change the fact that it does indeed require SOME skillAlmost wrote:
But you also have to remember that most hard farmers aren't pro such as myself. I farm hards a lot, but give me something actually difficult, and I will fail utterly.
I'm really not sure how you've come to think that farming [Hard]s makes it more difficult to rank up because 'often' the scoreboard is highly contested. I'm not even sure what led you to think that [Hard]s are highly contested. PP has shown itself to be quite random at times with what maps give it out or not, one time it might be a [Normal] from 2007, or a newly ranked [Insane]. It does however tend to give points from old, popular and [Hard]s more often than not but that's not to say all of those leader-boards are highly contested in the slightest.Kaoru wrote:
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).
So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
I really hate to jump on the 'TP is perfection omg' bandwagon right now but really, what are the flaws that it currently has that are rather large? Patterns and maybe underestimating the difficulty of fast 1/2s with changing directions/spacing. Maybe it's that you agree with ppy when it comes to a ranking system, that it needs some sort of relative comparing going on with map popularity etc, all of which doesn't attribute to the difficulty within the .osu.Kaoru wrote:
Just because I am defending pp farming does not mean I think I am skillful because of it or deserve my rank because of it. I am well aware that there are FAR MORE than 50 players who are better than me, and I will by no means try to claim otherwise. I like to THINK I am a pretty good player (and that's what it comes down to: opinions), but I don't shove it in people's faces or let my arrogance get out of control. Any ranking system that exists is bound to be farmed or exploited in one manner or another. You're free to judge and criticize any of these players as you please. I'd just appreciate it if generalizations about us were avoided.
First off, I am by no means saying that the pp system is accurate. Every ranking system that is released will have some flaws, and someone SOMEWHERE is going to have a qualm with it EVEN IF it's nearing perfection. Now, not ALL hards are highly contested. I've just found that the maps that give good pp tend to have a lot of scores to beat. That seems to be a trend in pp maps. Maybe the maps were riddled with pro highscores BEFORE people found out it gave pp. Maybe they weren't. We'll never know. Some hards I've played have been truly difficult to get a top 6 score on due to the amount of people playing ar10.8+ or HD FL DT on that map. My point is not EVERY hard is easy to get a highscore on. And people seem to be quick to conclude that it's easy to get scores on those maps.
Here is my reasoning behind the legitimacy of everyone farming:
So, a player happens to stumble upon a pp map. Horay, he gets 100 pp and shares the map with all of his friends. His friends proceed to envy the ranks he got and attempt to set scores on the same map. If all of that players' friends were skilled players, there would be a handful of hard-to-beat scores on the leaderboard of that pp song. So now you, in turn, stumble upon the same map. If you're not skilled enough to beat the scores these skilled players set, the song won't yield as much pp. So if all the skilled players were farming, it would be increasingly hard to farm pp. Naturally, there are exceptions. For instance, anything that's easy to SS tends to give unfair amounts of pp. Pro players setting scores on these wouldn't make the system any more/ less difficult to farm.
And lastly, (yet again, in my opinion) you can't just compare every player in the top 100 (or should I even deign to say the top 250) to a pro player like thelewa or happystick. The differences will be astonishing, and a random top 250 player's accomplishments would pale in comparision to something thelewa could do with ease. Pro players like that are known for their consistency. That's what sets them apart from people who get occasional amazing plays. If those people are capable of making those amazing plays their achievements are by no means undermined by the fact that they can't make those amazing plays consitently.
So pretty much my point is that people tend to underestimate the difficulty of hard farming. While it may merely sound like justifications I do I have some very valid reasons why they are difficult. There are always exceptions to the matter and there are still quite a few easy maps that yield incredible amounts of pp. I'm not going to go out of my way to deny that. I just implore you guys to keep in mind that hard farming isn't as easy as people make it out to be.
no.Mithost wrote:
In 1-3 tries, most decent players can score a pp heavy rank on a hard, with a #1 usually within 10 tries.
People who farm their way to top 250 by playing HD HR FL on hards are undeserving I think since getting a HD HR FL score is easier but more time consuming than achieving an SS with HD DT like KaODia. You really don't even need to be able to play AR9.8/10 proficiently to be able to set top scores with it.winber1 wrote:
Those who actually farm their way up to top 250 are also definitely good players. You can't really look down at them for being completely undeserving. Those who actual farm from like top 200 to like top 50 are not able to farm up to there because they are only sub-decent players--they are able to farm up that quickly because they are actually pretty damn good players. Maybe not pro level, but I guarantee you there is no way they are sub-par at this game.
Your logic is correct but in reality it only applies to really high skilled players with relatively low rank like H4ppySt1ck or Elysion or listless or a couple of asians there.There are real talents in the ranks 2000--5000 not to mention the random asians.And I guess it's frustrating for a hard working player to find himself so low on rankings and at the same time a person who only learned HD and ACC doing the same pattern over and over again to be so high in the ranking.I admit I can't, generally suck at acc & hd and I like & play crazy maps, not sped up(DT) patterns for normal/hard diff so I give credit to them guys.skiter43 wrote:
Why do you care so much about pp farmers
I mean, everyone who knows a bit about the game knows who the real pros are, pp is pretty much mocked by everyone
off-topic to the thread:Kaoru wrote:
I'd like more than anything to have a high rank with that one, too, since people tend to look down on the fact that I farmed.
source?[AirCoN] wrote:
Seems like people are now hated for tp farming
silmarilen wrote:
source?[AirCoN] wrote:
Seems like people are now hated for tp farming
I don't like speed/aim-only tp farmers haha: (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
You can easily get accuracy in tp by playing slow songs with DT. All my SS on OD9.8 which I find to be a quite difficult to do have given me less accuracy tp than slow songs with DT that are actually really easy to accuracy. Aim songs generally scale at an appropriate rate with more jumpy songs awarding higher aim tp. Speed songs sometimes award more for faster songs but having more stamina and streaming speed allow you to have higher tp speed. Accuracy is easily the easiest of all of them since you don't need to play difficult songs to get high amounts at low ranks mainly talking about around my tp rank.kriers wrote:
it happens to be the easiest aspect to farm only because so much effort has been put into aim and speed tp. Those scores usually have really low values of accuracy tp, while that heavy tp gain is from much easier beatmaps. The tp system does scale the value by how high the overall tp gain is, but still you can get insane overall tp by having crazy aim, speed or accuracy only scores.
Never actually tested doing this since I don't farm tp.