This thread is about the pp farmers who farm hard difficulties and don't deserve the rank they have (like me).NoJoke wrote:
Agreed. Once again I never said he was a bad player. He's a great player and he deserves his rank, that's what my posts were all about all along. If you deserve such a ranking then I see no problem in farming for the rank. However let's say you're like me that can't pass many hard maps on DT/DS/HD/FL it simply means it's where you should be and you shouldn't farm until you're ready.AdonixSS wrote:
At least I never see Cookiezi farming easy maps
HDDT Remote control against other random easy hards 100% is entirely two different gradations
If you find yourself able to beat a good amount of insane maps I see nothing wrong with farming your PP to become one of the top 1,000 seeing you deserve it. Over time whileast farming you'll be getting better along the way so once you hit that point you'll be right where you should be. At that point, it's a matter of playing with others around your skill level and testing yourself to say "Hey, I don't belong here..." or "Hey, I belong slightly higher!" which if you feel your peers around your PP are significantly lower than you, farm.
This way you'll be with the peers you belong in. However you could be ranked 300k and still be able to do better than a top 10 if you know what you're doing so overall, rank means nothing in the end. It's just a flashy number that gives out fame. I'd prefer to stay where I belong and stay away from the top ranks so I don't draw attention. I can tell it would be quite tedious to play a single map and have hundreds of people watching me when I first get up in the morning to practice!
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What do you have against PP farmers?
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But that means, that you have to have fun and keep the fun on playing the same annoying part, over and over again and when getting further, you will eventually fail again in the first part again..NoJoke wrote:
I do agree, however seeing the only way to play an insane very well is to memorize where the paterns are going to emerge next. That way you'll be telling your brain, "Hey, I'll need to keep my mouse closer to this general location because a line of notes are about to appear." and so forth.Almost wrote:
There are actually some hard farmers who can't play insanes well. Hards don't improve your ability to play insanes either since most of them have simple spacing and patterns. The only thing I find hards useful for is improving single tapping speed.
As long as you can keep up with the notes, all you'd need to do is memorize the majority of the pasterns of the map and you're set.
I'm one of those you might consider a hard farmer. But i get my satisfaction in playing maps, that i find fun to play. Thats often the hard one, as the insane is just so fast / has long streams / patterns i just dislike, i can barely get a B on them. The point in playing the game is for me to have fun. My satisfaction is the greatest, when finally fc a hard in the 5th 10th 20th Try. Maybe even with HD and have a nice Acc. That on the other hand is rewarded by the pp system. So dont blame everybody, who is farming hards.. MAybe they just get more fun from that, than memorizing insanes to know exactly how to play them. I dont care that much about my ranking. I know many with 10k+ Ranking that play waaayy better than me. But i cannot help it..
You might also consider, that some ppl arent 16 anymore and it isnt that easy anymore to get more speed. A younger body is better capeble of adapting to speed.
That's a common misconception.Iluya wrote:
You might also consider, that some ppl arent 16 anymore and it isnt that easy anymore to get more speed. A younger body is better capeble of adapting to speed.
A lot of high level pros in competitive video games today are people in their 20s who often even started playing that late.
Unless you're 30+ and already have a kid who's going to school you have no excuse for saying you can't get good if you wanted to.
It's not a misconception at all, it's just very situational and doesn't apply to everybody. I don't got as much energy as I used to have, and my eyesight is getting worse. I now can't play anything challenging without wearing my glasses and get tired a lot quicker, thus if I had practiced properly back when I was still young and full of life I'd most certainly perform ten times better.
That's the point, the misconception is that there's a rule that says getting older equals getting worse at stuff like dexterity and other video-game related abilities. For many people it's really the opposite.boat wrote:
It's not a misconception at all, it's just very situational and doesn't apply to everybody.
people dont play insanes by memorization, 95% of it is sight read and memorization is only on hidden or when the ar is too high (generally ar10+ altho a lot of people are getting better at sightreading those aswell)NoJoke wrote:
I do agree, however seeing the only way to play an insane very well is to memorize where the paterns are going to emerge next. That way you'll be telling your brain, "Hey, I'll need to keep my mouse closer to this general location because a line of notes are about to appear." and so forth.Almost wrote:
There are actually some hard farmers who can't play insanes well. Hards don't improve your ability to play insanes either since most of them have simple spacing and patterns. The only thing I find hards useful for is improving single tapping speed.
As long as you can keep up with the notes, all you'd need to do is memorize the majority of the pasterns of the map and you're set.
rank 6k and having trouble with insanes can hardly be called a hard farmerIluya wrote:
I'm one of those you might consider a hard farmer. But i get my satisfaction in playing maps, that i find fun to play. Thats often the hard one, as the insane is just so fast / has long streams / patterns i just dislike, i can barely get a B on them.
hard farmers are people who can play insanes perfectly fine but prefer to play hards over them to get more pp. you should generally be thinking of people in the top 1k.
But it's not a misconception if the case is that it applies half of the time.
That is not what i said/meant. I related purely to speed. And especially to the ability to gain it. So all i was pointing out was, that if you are younger it is easier to gain the speed. I havnt said you cannot gain them or you even lose it.Aqo wrote:
That's the point, the misconception is that there's a rule that says getting older equals getting worse at stuff like dexterity and other video-game related abilities. For many people it's really the opposite.boat wrote:
It's not a misconception at all, it's just very situational and doesn't apply to everybody.
Another thing is: Most competitive video games are also depending on skills like strategy, or situational reactions, which are highly experience-based. In Osu that part would be pattern recognition, bpm-pattern relations and common conceptions of maps, which are learned by playing more, thus "older ppl" might have an advantage here.
NoJoke_old_1
What it honestly boils down to is the fact whatever you may find fun should be what matters in the end. Games are created and developed for fun. Of course there will be competitive play; however you have to consider if you're going into competitive play with a certain game you must find it fun to begin with and actually get good at the game. How you get good is your own way of training yourself.Iluya wrote:
That is not what i said/meant. I related purely to speed. And especially to the ability to gain it. So all i was pointing out was, that if you are younger it is easier to gain the speed. I havnt said you cannot gain them or you even lose it.
Another thing is: Most competitive video games are also depending on skills like strategy, or situational reactions, which are highly experience-based. In Osu that part would be pattern recognition, bpm-pattern relations and common conceptions of maps, which are learned by playing more, thus "older ppl" might have an advantage here.
As many have told me, you don't get good overnight so keep practicing. I didn't fully understand what there was to practice until people started giving me a wide variation of things I need to work on. Once I learned that, I have my own method that works for me. Some people find playing the same map over and over again to FC it would be the most viable option seeing they are comfortable with the paterns and get a feeling of enjoyment after FC'ing the map as a personal achievement. Therefore that would move them to a slightly difficult map set for them to work on next. It's a rinse and repeat method.
So all in all, PP farming would only get you better in the end. If you're good enough to efficiently farm high-tier maps that are fast paced then by all means, do it until you FC it. I don't really see the fun it in persay however every human being has their own way of training their brain - whichever they find fun, I guess let them do. There's no reason to stop what somebody finds fun. That's like taking candy from a baby, as I said before games are designed and developed for fun purposes only. If you take their fun away then there's no fun left in the game.
As long as it doesn't effect you personally there should be no reason to hate PP farmers. Yes you may loose a few ranks here and there but that gives you an incentive to go back and play the map just to re-obtain your ranking.
scenekidz
I have been noticing a lot of low level players with real high ranks...must be because they have one or two #1's on hard maps I suppose...
The question I have is this...Why would you hate on the PP farmers if there are actually lots of people out there who hack this game to get 100 percent SS on insane maps with all mods? I find it sad that people must hack a music game.
All jokes aside, the more things getting in your way of being higher rank, the harder you have to play and the better you have to be to rank high.
So, in a way, all who are serious about this game should be thanking the bastards for increasing their skills!
The question I have is this...Why would you hate on the PP farmers if there are actually lots of people out there who hack this game to get 100 percent SS on insane maps with all mods? I find it sad that people must hack a music game.
All jokes aside, the more things getting in your way of being higher rank, the harder you have to play and the better you have to be to rank high.
So, in a way, all who are serious about this game should be thanking the bastards for increasing their skills!
Can you clarify what you mean by "low level player" and "high rank"? I don't think I've seen a single player in top 1k pp that can't FC or at least pass a medium-difficulty insane with decent to high accuracy. Even those top 100 players considered "hard farmers" have some ridiculous records. and FYI not all hard difficulties are faceroll easy with mods. "Hard farmers" like silynn and shadowsoul have some HDDT records on hard diffs that are actually really difficult to pull off.scenekidz wrote:
I have been noticing a lot of low level players with real high ranks
What I find amazing is the amount of players who are just plain bad/terrible and keep commenting on some specific threads.
Meaning players with 1k/2k plays who can't even play Insanes, or those who keep playing Easies. x/
Meaning players with 1k/2k plays who can't even play Insanes, or those who keep playing Easies. x/
These guys tend to get caught and banned so it doesn't really affect anyone in any way.scenekidz wrote:
The question I have is this...Why would you hate on the PP farmers if there are actually lots of people out there who hack this game to get 100 percent SS on insane maps with all mods? I find it sad that people must hack a music game.
OR that they haven't been in the game long enough to even know what is farming.Wishy wrote:
What I find amazing is the amount of players who are just plain bad/terrible and keep commenting on some specific threads.
Meaning players with 1k/2k plays who can't even play Insanes, or those who keep playing Easies. x/
For theirs and our sakes, I'd go through a little bit of ranking history, but I'm not prepared to waste my energy typing something no one is going to read.
I hate when ppl farm top rank on low level song liek easy/normal/hard with triplemod etc. Like when i first start this game , i would be so glad to be in the top rank of a song beetwen those player on my level... They should put a level restriction or smthg like that on that pp system idk.
But I don't care about GOOD player farming pp on insane etc coz they don't really have nothing else to make this game harder.
But I don't care about GOOD player farming pp on insane etc coz they don't really have nothing else to make this game harder.
Most hards with triple mods are not that easy...loukhz wrote:
I hate when ppl farm top rank on low level song liek easy/normal/hard with triplemod etc. Like when i first start this game , i would be so glad to be in the top rank of a song beetwen those player on my level... They should put a level restriction or smthg like that on that pp system idk.
But I don't care about GOOD player farming pp on insane etc coz they don't really have nothing else to make this game harder.
Well it isn't but i feel like it's kinda lame for them to play hard while there are so many map harder with differents levels like another/special/TAG etc i mean...Almost wrote:
Most hards with triple mods are not that easy...loukhz wrote:
I hate when ppl farm top rank on low level song liek easy/normal/hard with triplemod etc. Like when i first start this game , i would be so glad to be in the top rank of a song beetwen those player on my level... They should put a level restriction or smthg like that on that pp system idk.
But I don't care about GOOD player farming pp on insane etc coz they don't really have nothing else to make this game harder.
That's why we have OWCsilmarilen wrote:
because pp is supposed to show skill, and if there are 3 hard farmers in the top10 above people that can 99% od10 high difficulty insanes, then its not very accurate.
its not so much the hard farmers that are hated, its the pp system that favours farming hards thats hated. if hards stopped giving so much pp nobody would complain.
Also, it's not the pp that having a problem, maps difficulty is our problem here. Ex : i can got S nomod with only 1 100 on a map with4.98 star difficulty , but can't even all combo-ing a map that have fvcking jump but they only have 4.20 star difficulty. Some hards have 5.00 star difficulty , and some insanes have lower than 4.90 star difficulty
peppy also said : "If you think you're better than someone, beat some of their best performance!"
higher acc means higher scores. so it's normal to gain pp from getting a SS
I think an easy way to stop farmers a bit would be to change it from being in the top 600 ranks on a song to the top say %10 or something. So that people cant just get the newest songs which nobody has ever played and get a #100 rank on that song and boost their PP way up. Also it is extremely difficult to get in the #600 on the most played songs.
well, pp farming is kinda useless now seeing how peppy created a new system called ppv2.
on that note, i dropped ~8400 ranks in ppv2, and almost(the user) dropped ~9400 ranks. peppy fix pls
on that note, i dropped ~8400 ranks in ppv2, and almost(the user) dropped ~9400 ranks. peppy fix pls
I think 10k rank suits me. :3[AirCoN] wrote:
well, pp farming is kinda useless now seeing how peppy created a new system called ppv2.
on that note, i dropped ~8400 ranks in ppv2, and almost(the user) dropped ~9400 ranks. peppy fix pls
Yeah are we ever gonna get some more details on that ppv2 thing? I can't even find myself on that list if I enter my name and I would really like to see my best performances with that system :/
and yet another thread will be locked because ppv2
gg
gg
Why am I still rank 600 in pp2
don't like a thread? discuss ppv2 there. guraranteed lock!winber1 wrote:
and yet another thread will be locked because ppv2
gg
in all seriousness though, i think this kind of ranking system shouldn't have existed in the first place. i admit i'm one of those hard map farmers you guys hate, if system didn't exist in the first place (or at least it wasn't this flawed), i wouldn't had forced to play in an "unhealthy" way because i obsess over numbers. i could try to "withdraw" and play insanes for fun, but as long as it's still there it would keep slapping my face telling me to go back. i wish one day it was gone...
it's like crack. too hard to resist.
Actually, thread should be locked because topic is obsolete
Shohei Ohtani
(And it's still in development, and it isn't really proven that ppv2 fixed pp farmers)
If you guys want this thread to live, I suggest scrapping the ppv2 discussion. It will devolve into baseless criticism and get locked.
My personal opinion on pp farmers (as a pp farmer):
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).
So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
My personal opinion on pp farmers (as a pp farmer):
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).
So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
But you also have to remember that most hard farmers aren't pro such as myself. I farm hards a lot, but give me something actually difficult, and I will fail utterly.Kaoru wrote:
If you guys want this thread to live, I suggest scrapping the ppv2 discussion. It will devolve into baseless criticism and get locked.
My personal opinion on pp farmers (as a pp farmer):
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).
So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
Shohei Ohtani
That's the thing though. There are only a handful of well-known pp farmers. The ones with high ranks are usually able to pull off skillful plays. Maybe their plays may not be what you should expect from a high ranked player, but that doesn't change the fact that it does indeed require SOME skillAlmost wrote:
But you also have to remember that most hard farmers aren't pro such as myself. I farm hards a lot, but give me something actually difficult, and I will fail utterly.
I'm really not sure how you've come to think that farming [Hard]s makes it more difficult to rank up because 'often' the scoreboard is highly contested. I'm not even sure what led you to think that [Hard]s are highly contested. PP has shown itself to be quite random at times with what maps give it out or not, one time it might be a [Normal] from 2007, or a newly ranked [Insane]. It does however tend to give points from old, popular and [Hard]s more often than not but that's not to say all of those leader-boards are highly contested in the slightest.Kaoru wrote:
While farming hards may not (keywords "may not") take very much skill, that doesn't change the fact that a good score on a hard is oftentimes more highly contested on the leaderboards than an insane. This means it will be more diffiicult to get good ranks, and thus, more difficult to rank up. The more farming and exploiting there is, the harder it is to retain or try for a good rank. If everyone attempted to pp farm, I think the leaderboards would be even more accurate. I think almost all players desire pp anyways (keywords "almost all"). I am by no means trying to say playing hards is super skillful, but I do think it requires a significant amount of skill. People will immediately judge pp farmers for having a lack of skill when I have seen these pp farmers play some crazy stuff. Take for instance ShadowSoul. He was widely known for being a pp farmer, but recently his plays have been REALLY pro. People still call him a pp farmer, but I personally think he deserves a spot in the top 20 (if not higher).
So TL;DR: pp farming requires more skill than people think it does due to a variety of reasons and because of this people will underestimate a pp farmers' ability to play difficult maps.
I'm also unsure as to how PP would be more legitimate with even more farming, let alone everyone doing it. When there are huge flaws in the system like letting one lucky person who happened to spin 100 score more, or who achieved the SS first to get bonus points isn't right when the system is supposed to be in place to accurately rate the skill/performances of a player. I wonder how you differentiate between a super skillful player and one that is just significantly skilled? Because that immediately explains what you've said right after regarding judgement.
People look at you this way because you're setting scores that, in your words, 'require a significant amount of skill' but to a lot of people, the difference between that and the super-skilled player is just too large. People will always rate a random asian or happystick over any hard farmer because they don't have just 'some' crazy stuff, their scores are just completely filled with those types of scores. It only seems like you took SS has an example because he is one of two hard farmers in my opinion who can score consistently well on difficult maps. I guess this is what I have against farming, the attempt to justify doing so.
Just because I am defending pp farming does not mean I think I am skillful because of it or deserve my rank because of it. I am well aware that there are FAR MORE than 50 players who are better than me, and I will by no means try to claim otherwise. I like to THINK I am a pretty good player (and that's what it comes down to: opinions), but I don't shove it in people's faces or let my arrogance get out of control. Any ranking system that exists is bound to be farmed or exploited in one manner or another. You're free to judge and criticize any of these players as you please. I'd just appreciate it if generalizations about us were avoided.
First off, I am by no means saying that the pp system is accurate. Every ranking system that is released will have some flaws, and someone SOMEWHERE is going to have a qualm with it EVEN IF it's nearing perfection. Now, not ALL hards are highly contested. I've just found that the maps that give good pp tend to have a lot of scores to beat. That seems to be a trend in pp maps. Maybe the maps were riddled with pro highscores BEFORE people found out it gave pp. Maybe they weren't. We'll never know. Some hards I've played have been truly difficult to get a top 6 score on due to the amount of people playing ar10.8+ or HD FL DT on that map. My point is not EVERY hard is easy to get a highscore on. And people seem to be quick to conclude that it's easy to get scores on those maps.
Here is my reasoning behind the legitimacy of everyone farming:
So, a player happens to stumble upon a pp map. Horay, he gets 100 pp and shares the map with all of his friends. His friends proceed to envy the ranks he got and attempt to set scores on the same map. If all of that players' friends were skilled players, there would be a handful of hard-to-beat scores on the leaderboard of that pp song. So now you, in turn, stumble upon the same map. If you're not skilled enough to beat the scores these skilled players set, the song won't yield as much pp. So if all the skilled players were farming, it would be increasingly hard to farm pp. Naturally, there are exceptions. For instance, anything that's easy to SS tends to give unfair amounts of pp. Pro players setting scores on these wouldn't make the system any more/ less difficult to farm.
And lastly, (yet again, in my opinion) you can't just compare every player in the top 100 (or should I even deign to say the top 250) to a pro player like thelewa or happystick. The differences will be astonishing, and a random top 250 player's accomplishments would pale in comparision to something thelewa could do with ease. Pro players like that are known for their consistency. That's what sets them apart from people who get occasional amazing plays. If those people are capable of making those amazing plays their achievements are by no means undermined by the fact that they can't make those amazing plays consitently.
So pretty much my point is that people tend to underestimate the difficulty of hard farming. While it may merely sound like justifications I do I have some very valid reasons why they are difficult. There are always exceptions to the matter and there are still quite a few easy maps that yield incredible amounts of pp. I'm not going to go out of my way to deny that. I just implore you guys to keep in mind that hard farming isn't as easy as people make it out to be.
First off, I am by no means saying that the pp system is accurate. Every ranking system that is released will have some flaws, and someone SOMEWHERE is going to have a qualm with it EVEN IF it's nearing perfection. Now, not ALL hards are highly contested. I've just found that the maps that give good pp tend to have a lot of scores to beat. That seems to be a trend in pp maps. Maybe the maps were riddled with pro highscores BEFORE people found out it gave pp. Maybe they weren't. We'll never know. Some hards I've played have been truly difficult to get a top 6 score on due to the amount of people playing ar10.8+ or HD FL DT on that map. My point is not EVERY hard is easy to get a highscore on. And people seem to be quick to conclude that it's easy to get scores on those maps.
Here is my reasoning behind the legitimacy of everyone farming:
So, a player happens to stumble upon a pp map. Horay, he gets 100 pp and shares the map with all of his friends. His friends proceed to envy the ranks he got and attempt to set scores on the same map. If all of that players' friends were skilled players, there would be a handful of hard-to-beat scores on the leaderboard of that pp song. So now you, in turn, stumble upon the same map. If you're not skilled enough to beat the scores these skilled players set, the song won't yield as much pp. So if all the skilled players were farming, it would be increasingly hard to farm pp. Naturally, there are exceptions. For instance, anything that's easy to SS tends to give unfair amounts of pp. Pro players setting scores on these wouldn't make the system any more/ less difficult to farm.
And lastly, (yet again, in my opinion) you can't just compare every player in the top 100 (or should I even deign to say the top 250) to a pro player like thelewa or happystick. The differences will be astonishing, and a random top 250 player's accomplishments would pale in comparision to something thelewa could do with ease. Pro players like that are known for their consistency. That's what sets them apart from people who get occasional amazing plays. If those people are capable of making those amazing plays their achievements are by no means undermined by the fact that they can't make those amazing plays consitently.
So pretty much my point is that people tend to underestimate the difficulty of hard farming. While it may merely sound like justifications I do I have some very valid reasons why they are difficult. There are always exceptions to the matter and there are still quite a few easy maps that yield incredible amounts of pp. I'm not going to go out of my way to deny that. I just implore you guys to keep in mind that hard farming isn't as easy as people make it out to be.
Then you have people who HD HR FL hards which only takes a bit of time but isn't really difficult to do in any way and get easy rank 1s and lots of pp...
Farming hards is easy compared to farming insanes. I always find hard difficulties where I myself could easily set a top 3 (if not 1) by just retrying a little bit, because they are not contested at all and the top score was set by either some pro on a first play or some farmer after many retries, I am not a very good player and my accuracy is terrible, yet I can still get top scores on lots of hard diffs without much effort, if I started actually doing so I would raise through the ranks A LOT, that would not mean I'm good or anything, it would just mean I'm a farmer.
On hards you gotta play against randomhardfarmer123, on hard insanes you usually play against the best player, and even if you beat one of the best players you don't get much more pp (do you even get more) than when you beat randomhardfarmer123.
The solution is simple tho, it should not matter who you beat, but how hard to do your record is, aka osutp.
PD: I still find some random one play DT [Hards] on my best performances lol. This DT (http://osu.ppy.sh/b/106469?m=0) is apparently worth more than this (http://osu.ppy.sh/b/105293?m=0), both being first plays, yet I think it's quite clear that one is way harder than the other one.
On hards you gotta play against randomhardfarmer123, on hard insanes you usually play against the best player, and even if you beat one of the best players you don't get much more pp (do you even get more) than when you beat randomhardfarmer123.
The solution is simple tho, it should not matter who you beat, but how hard to do your record is, aka osutp.
PD: I still find some random one play DT [Hards] on my best performances lol. This DT (http://osu.ppy.sh/b/106469?m=0) is apparently worth more than this (http://osu.ppy.sh/b/105293?m=0), both being first plays, yet I think it's quite clear that one is way harder than the other one.
I really hate to jump on the 'TP is perfection omg' bandwagon right now but really, what are the flaws that it currently has that are rather large? Patterns and maybe underestimating the difficulty of fast 1/2s with changing directions/spacing. Maybe it's that you agree with ppy when it comes to a ranking system, that it needs some sort of relative comparing going on with map popularity etc, all of which doesn't attribute to the difficulty within the .osu.Kaoru wrote:
Just because I am defending pp farming does not mean I think I am skillful because of it or deserve my rank because of it. I am well aware that there are FAR MORE than 50 players who are better than me, and I will by no means try to claim otherwise. I like to THINK I am a pretty good player (and that's what it comes down to: opinions), but I don't shove it in people's faces or let my arrogance get out of control. Any ranking system that exists is bound to be farmed or exploited in one manner or another. You're free to judge and criticize any of these players as you please. I'd just appreciate it if generalizations about us were avoided.
First off, I am by no means saying that the pp system is accurate. Every ranking system that is released will have some flaws, and someone SOMEWHERE is going to have a qualm with it EVEN IF it's nearing perfection. Now, not ALL hards are highly contested. I've just found that the maps that give good pp tend to have a lot of scores to beat. That seems to be a trend in pp maps. Maybe the maps were riddled with pro highscores BEFORE people found out it gave pp. Maybe they weren't. We'll never know. Some hards I've played have been truly difficult to get a top 6 score on due to the amount of people playing ar10.8+ or HD FL DT on that map. My point is not EVERY hard is easy to get a highscore on. And people seem to be quick to conclude that it's easy to get scores on those maps.
Here is my reasoning behind the legitimacy of everyone farming:
So, a player happens to stumble upon a pp map. Horay, he gets 100 pp and shares the map with all of his friends. His friends proceed to envy the ranks he got and attempt to set scores on the same map. If all of that players' friends were skilled players, there would be a handful of hard-to-beat scores on the leaderboard of that pp song. So now you, in turn, stumble upon the same map. If you're not skilled enough to beat the scores these skilled players set, the song won't yield as much pp. So if all the skilled players were farming, it would be increasingly hard to farm pp. Naturally, there are exceptions. For instance, anything that's easy to SS tends to give unfair amounts of pp. Pro players setting scores on these wouldn't make the system any more/ less difficult to farm.
And lastly, (yet again, in my opinion) you can't just compare every player in the top 100 (or should I even deign to say the top 250) to a pro player like thelewa or happystick. The differences will be astonishing, and a random top 250 player's accomplishments would pale in comparision to something thelewa could do with ease. Pro players like that are known for their consistency. That's what sets them apart from people who get occasional amazing plays. If those people are capable of making those amazing plays their achievements are by no means undermined by the fact that they can't make those amazing plays consitently.
So pretty much my point is that people tend to underestimate the difficulty of hard farming. While it may merely sound like justifications I do I have some very valid reasons why they are difficult. There are always exceptions to the matter and there are still quite a few easy maps that yield incredible amounts of pp. I'm not going to go out of my way to deny that. I just implore you guys to keep in mind that hard farming isn't as easy as people make it out to be.
I'm kind of guessing in this part but I assume that because all of these 'skilled' players have set high scores on this hypothetical map, that the popularity of the map would have increased, and also since this new player who wasn't as skilled as the others who recently set new scores, you say he doesn't get any reward, or at least, very much of it anyway. I have a hard time following this as pp does attempt to relatively compare players on a map, in other words, it wouldn't penalize your possible reward if you were lower in rank (which I'm assuming is lower skill in this case too) than if you were near equal to or higher ranked compared to the players who set these new scores.
I guarantee you that I'm not underestimating the difficulty of farming. Early this year I scouted out a few of Team USA's 'Best Performances' and went from #100 to #60 in a few hours. Your reasons for them being difficult don't stem from the maps being difficult themselves, but instead because one player retried it more or got lucky for that one SS run. I would not call those valid reasons. I don't think I'll refrain from generalizing farmers as a bunch of players who compensated for their low ranks by gaming the system, regardless if it was made this way or not. At least, not until they prove that they are able to pull off good scores in a number of different areas as SG and SS both have.