One thing I don't understand is,
why try to fix things that weren't broken?

the old Miss style was GOOD. Why the hell change it?
the old slider tick style was GOOD. Why touch it?
the old scoreboard menu was GOOD. Why change anything? to annoy people?
the old pie was fine. Why put a dot in the middle? you think we're not smart enough to know where the middle is?

The addition of new-style followpoints is good.
Some other changes are good.
The new circle fade upon being-clicked-on is so-so. In some situations it's for the better and in others it's for the worse. Personally, after experimenting with this on different maps all day long, I can't really say I enjoy the new style. I'm indifferent to the playability of this (tried playing a lot with default skin and concluded that it's still sub-par to invisible skins so the moderate improvement is still not enough) and feel-wise the lack of popping of circles when you click on them makes it feel less fun when playing streams.

The problem with this update is that it changed things that did not call for a change. I really don't understand the mentality of not allowing to revert. Every single commercial game that I know has huge option menus that let users heavily customize their play experience with all various features that the game offered across patches, why most osu be different? There is no gain to be had in preventing users from playing with their preferred settings. It's always good to see new additions, but why not let each user pick which additions he is interested in applying and which ones they're not interested in? Why choose the road that pisses off all people to a different extent instead of the road that satisfies everybody?

The best way to please everybody is let users decide what /they/ want. There is a reason that the most popular games these days are sandbox games. It's not any different with UI decisions, and in a game like osu a UI is a big part of gameplay.

What Aqo said +1

This 'may' sound like a toggle-like thing, but why don't apply everything for the new default skin (like just leaving it, as it is right now), so all the new players are seeing that osu! is a fresh and modern game and for the people who don't like all this, adding these new things as options they can choose in the skin.ini for example (or the new skinning menu)...like en/disabling the falling X's (but peppy already declined this before) and every other option that may distract people from playing or even change the feel of playing.

I personally only miss the bumping hitcircles, after hitting them, everything else is fine for me, thought.

RBRat3 wrote:

Considering what I've done with skinning this change is only a drop of water compared to what I've blown out of proportion to what IS worse and still was able to FC a moderately hard song.

Seeing as you have a supporter tag you have the freedom to provide constructive criticism in testing phases which you had every opportunity to take part in. That changelog isn't a transparent sheet of glass it moves everyday which you can readily check and give feedback in test BEFORE it ever makes a step into public and for that I have no sympathy for you or anyone who holds a supporter tag and doesn't use it to their advantage.

If I would log in on osu!test, I'd hardly find anyone around. This is not our problem, it's the game developers, and it is what makes the actual game the real platform for testing out new features. Because of this alone, all new additions that affect gameplay should at least come with a toggle.


Seeing developers who don't even play the game for real, refusing to listen to people who do is extremely frustrating. It makes me lose all faith.

I completely agree with Aqo.

Personally I like all the changes in the skin behaviour ( at first the miss looked weird for me, but as you don't like, it helps you not to fail, because you don't want to see the falling miss) but I think it should be implemented the possibility to change this behaviour in the skin.ini


Something like that:

MissStyle: 1 ( old behaviour)
MissStyle: 2 ( new behaviour)

Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it is something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.

This new miss behaviour is actually making it harder to play after missing with the taiko skin in taiko mode: t/123349/

Lance5 wrote:

at first the miss looked weird for me, but as you don't like, it helps you not to fail, because you don't want to see the falling miss

Motivation won't help me miss less when I'm playing a 275bpm map with HR
Readability will

The hitburst change is the one thing that's really good about this update and has been called for, for a long time. Much of the rest is stuff that's... just... why...

Sakura wrote:

About reading slider speed changes, you shouldn't be required to use visual hints to read them anyways, you should be listening to the song.

Hard to predict SV changes if you are listeing to a song the first time.

To be honest, about the new circle fading, I didn't notice any difference at all there, so I guess it is fine? I also got used to the "falling misses" pretty fast. Even the rather annyoing new result screen (you have to scroll down instead of just clicking >_>) might be something we will eventually get used to. The new slider tick behaviour however is something completely different, it makes sightreading impossible.

Also

Aqo wrote:

why try to fix things that weren't broken?

@ RBRat3: I didn't get a supporter tag to get access to the test build, so you cannot call it my duty to check new features there. I didn't pay to do work.

RBRat3 wrote:

Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it is something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.

The players should not forced to be testers, sorry. That is not their job. This was forced onto us in live unnecessarily, the least you could do is give players a choice.

RBRat3 wrote:

Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it its something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.

I was there for some time to..mostly about 5-7 hours in the last days, also reported some stuff, if there was anything important to mention.

Likely making a new skin or layout perfectly fitting the game without any bugs is hard work, so why do they need to rewind everything? Toggles would be fine, but the title is like "We want back the old one and burry the new one, because it changes our way of playing too much"...sure, not every change is a good one, but osu! needs a new style over the time. Most of the elements that were changed, are from 2007/8, so they were kinda outdated. The only thing (I guess) peppy and RBRat wanted to do, is giving osu! a fresh and modern style and they did it...it really looks neat, especially the new ranking with the map backgrounds is a huge and good change I wanted to see long time before. And with a new style, there coming things that people may dislike, but you'll actually have to be okay with that.

The only thing I have to say about this is: Play a bit around with the skin, or wait until the skin is available as new template and change it then. But respect the hard work behind everything of that, because the graphics and the code behind that weren't made in one sec. It would be nice to see most of these features as toggles for new skins, but completely disabling them would be a shame...

Seriously, with this update many of skins is kind of broken, especially I fell bad for old skins that won't get any updates. Forced Spinner transparency by default is a "great idea"...
Every "old" skin have spinners that NEEDS black background on widescreen and people don't even know they can set this in skin.ini, I'm pretty sure only some people knows about this.

If you wanted to make new osu! default skin, why won't add it as second default skin called "osu! default simplified" or something, AND add additional button to "use" new behaviour...

To be honest I don't really like idea making update to all of my skins... 13 of them. It's not something that you will do in 5 minutes. :/

Silynn wrote:

RBRat3 wrote:

Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it is something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.

The players should not forced to be testers, sorry. That is not their job. This was forced onto us in live unnecessarily, the least you could do is give players a choice.

You aren't forced to be tester, The information of changes is provided to you right here on this site for you to read it's not force of anything but your ability to read. If it is something that may apply to you go try it out, It's really not that hard. You have a choice to give constructive criticism or not.

Why does it matter whether or not criticism is given after the fact? I don't use the test version of osu!, and I think this update sucks. Is there really much difference between that and thinking it sucks before it comes out?

Kyou-kun wrote:

Why does it matter whether or not criticism is given after the fact? I don't use the test version of osu!, and I think this update sucks. Is there really much difference between that and thinking it sucks before it comes out?

Yes it matters because when it was in test you had the power to change or help before the fact.

There's a big difference between complaining and doing something about it.

What's with this attitude of blaming issues on the players? This isn't getting anybody anywhere.

How about discuss the topic at hand?

The main purpose of features in this game is to appeal to its players. If there is a choice between two features and players prefer one over another, why go against this? You're hurting your own game. At the very least give a choice.

RBRat3 wrote:

Yes it matters because when it was in test you had the power to change or help before the fact.

There's a big difference between complaining and doing something about it.

But never too late to change it in a better way, right?

RBRat3 wrote:

Kyou-kun wrote:

Why does it matter whether or not criticism is given after the fact? I don't use the test version of osu!, and I think this update sucks. Is there really much difference between that and thinking it sucks before it comes out?

Yes it matters because when it was in test you had the power to change or help before the fact.

There's a big difference between complaining and doing something about it.

There is no difference between complaining and constructive criticism. Sadly, it is you who decide what you want to call it.

I am really shocked how you blame it on us that we don't help you test out features... it should never end up becoming the users problem and fault.

I didn't place blame, I simply stated that there was an opportunity that could have been taken.

RBRat3 wrote:

I didn't place blame, I simply stated that there was an opportunity that could have been taken.

You talk as if the decision is final. You're even telling us what we should've done when most of us didn't even know such an opportunity even existed, let alone we had to take it. As things stand I just want a toggle. :/

kriers wrote:

RBRat3 wrote:

I didn't place blame, I simply stated that there was an opportunity that could have been taken.

You talk as if the decision is final. You're even telling us what we should've done when most of us didn't even know such an opportunity even existed, let alone we had to take it. As things stand I just want a toggle. :/

It may or may not be final, That's not up to me but when you become a supporter that opportunity was always there to help make osu! better when it comes to changes before it hits public.

I like the changes. The new slider bodies are strange for the default skin, but they are just like the skin I like to use, so it doesn't even bother me. The new hitbursts increase visibility. It's a welcomed change. Perhaps there should be an option to use old defaults elements for pre-existing maps though. The new slider bodies may negatively affect certain maps.

TheVileOne wrote:

The new slider bodies may negatively affect certain maps.

How?

Sliders can be changed back manually using skin.ini

Why not get it over with and implement a toggle for stuff like falling X's and the slider ticks fading in now? Some maps give you a choice between either heavy memorization OR reading SV changes by slider ticks, which gets really hard when the ticks AREN'T THERE. So why force this on us? The falling X's annoy me to no end, and they annoy me even more when trying to play Taiko.

It makes me really lose faith in the dev when a lot of people are complaining about a specific thing and the developer just goes "Nope, not changing it.".

There's definitely good stuff in the new UI, but why swap something great out for something inferior? The new menus are completely fine and such, but at least implement a toggle for stuff some people tend to not like. That way, everybody wins. People who like the new stuff can use it, and the people who would like to play Taiko with any degree of decency can, too.

Silynn wrote:

hitburst changes -- when I hit something (without hidden on), the hit feels "empty"

TechnikaFlash wrote:

I have to say, that the hits really feel like I don't get any "feedback", like this popping up...but I played a lot on the testbuild, like theowest (in the post above this) and I'm getting used to it.

1 page was enough...

I don't know how long it will take to get used to but even before i could barely play freedom dive but now... omg... it feels like you are not hitting streams at all (and to hold that insane flow with completely new feel(or to be precise "nothing")... ok, not not gonna mention how it distracts
Please, just add in skin.ini CircleFade: 1-2 and everyone is happy.

I didn't even notice these changes until I read this thread (then again, I sometimes don't even notice beatmaps overriding my skin). I'm pretty sure you guys will get used to it pretty quickly.

i still don't get the new spinner
the old: there's a little circle moving toward the center which mark the end
the new gets big the use probability?

Silynn wrote:

falling "X's" on miss -- makes me feel like I failed the map (seriously it feels like sudden death is on whenever I miss a note)

hitburst changeshit lighting >< -- when I hit something (without hidden on), the hit feels "empty" < I cannot agree more
new slider ticks - these are not useful for reading before hand, the size increasing is very eyecatching and distracting yes, animation is nice but ticks should appear earlier, or all at the same time on a slider, while still fading in nicely but much earlier, to being able to read speed changes

I hope a toggle will be added, I am happy that osu! is being developed heavily, but transition-wise it would be better this way.

I have noticed that I always press game mode instead of mods now, but F1 is the good alternative and I've adapted to this method of selecting mods.

I've tried to use the template v3 but it only removes the slider ticks, it doesn't bring back the old ones.

The new default skin is very pretty and sharp, but unfortunately I feel it's more of a novelty and doesn't work well when a player is being challenged with a fast paced song. Furthermore, I feel that the style of the skin isn't as universally acceptable being used in maps as the previous default, but rather it's for maps with dark, cool colored backgrounds.
If the default style isn't going to be changed for over a year, I believe people should have the ability to use all the previous skins properly, as they were intended when created. (Or at least make it changeable to previous settings)
I understand that if you give players the optional choice of the previous default that they may never bother to get accustomed to the newer, sharper looking skin, but the skin is creating a problem for readability. The simplicity of the previous skin was very lovable, and probably more beginner friendly as well.
Problems that players face with the new skin include:

The hitbursts: Although they look awesome, the 300s and 100s look similar when being distracted by oncoming notes (This is probably the biggest problem I have with the skin). With the previous skin, the players could easily catch the color of the score while under a heavy barrage of circles, but these hitbursts are mostly colorless. A great improvement, however with these new hitbursts in comparison to the old ones however is how much easier it is to spot a stacked note after it.

The circles no longer enlarge: This was a really cool feature that really gave great feedback when hitting notes. The first thing I noticed when I started playing osu! was that I absolutely loved the feedback while playing this game. It's a great feature that should definitely be at least optional.

The spinner: This spinner looks sweet, but a huge problem is that there's no approach circle telling you when it's going to end (maybe this is a glitch?). There's also no bars on the side telling you when there's going to be a bonus either (not that having bars is necessarily a big deal, but the spinner is giving you no indication of how long it is). The flashing white within the spinners circle can also make it hard to see your mostly white and blue cursor on a blue spinner, but the idea of the spinner actually having a visual feedback like that for spinner bonuses is a really cool concept.

The slider: I believe that this new slider is optional if I recall, but a problem I ran into with these sliders is that they make overlapping sliders really hard. Especially when combined with the fading-in sliderticks.

The miss animation: This doesn't bother me too much, I think it's nice to see how the new skin makes all the elements seem really active, but I can see why it might bother people. Aside from it looking like the same effect as when you fail (people can adapt to that), it might confuse someone on a jumpy pattern, since the position of the X is moving from where it was previously hit. Since it might confuse some people, it is another feature that should be optional.

Hey, popping in to give the reasons why I am looking for the true old skin as a selectable option.

Miss burst has gravity and falls. This is a rather distracting addition that can't be removed with a custom skin.

Hitburst color scheme and design is misleading
I'm going to go in depth on this one.

The color and size scheme of the old hitbursts is phenomenal.
Everything is color and size coded to show how you're doing in a beatmap.
300s are represented as warm, orange. This 'warm' color is pleasant to look at and contrasts with the 'cold' colors of 100s and 50s (green and blue).
50s are different from 100s via its size. This makes distinguishing 100s and 50s easy.

The new skin is all cool colors, the exception being the 50. They are the same size. It is extremely difficult to tell the difference between a 300 and a 100 in the midst of everything. A simple fix would be to color the 300 orange. Seriously.

Hitbursts do not bounce. The old hitbursts had a bounce to them. They got big, small, then big again. It was very satisfying and had a huge impact, allowing the player to easily gauge when they clicked. The new ones aren't terrible, they are just not nearly as bouncy as the previous.

The play button is not aligned with the solo button anymore. A quick double click to get into the action is met with failure.

'
Slider ticks no longer help in determining the speed of a slider. Fast and slow sliders are now indistinguishable because of the fading in ticks. Being able to see ticks before the slider is played is extremely important!

A thick black ring is drawn around the beginning of sliders. It's jarring to see it bolded and it disconnects the slider start from the rest of the slider.

Figured Id mention that if the falling X bothersome to you that you can always make your own animations which aren't prone to in-game motions...

Simple as copying the template hit0 and slapping in a hit0-0 and hit0-1 or you can be more constructive and make a full sequence of your own

RBRat3 wrote:

Figured Id mention that if the falling X bothersome to you that you can always make your own animations which aren't prone to in-game motions...

Simple as copying the template hit0 and slapping in a hit0-0 and hit0-1 or you can be more constructive and make a full sequence of your own

If this is possible to do with skin customization, then that is fine

However, because you haven't released the template for the new default, no one was aware of this. I think the tone you used in this post was a little unnecessary.

Also, the misses are not the only problem and definitely not the biggest problem.

Definitely have to agree with the new hitbursts not being informative enough. The old ones made it very easy to distinguish between 300's, 100's and 50's, and the new ones do not.

The falling miss icons are what bugs me the most

+1 support

Gave it some thought, and it seems osu! is moving away from being an improved Ouendan clone, what with the new spinners and slider ticks. Shame, really.

I want the option function

Go back to the old days

The option to use the 3.19 patch previously Skin

Since the patch I hate

Therefore, the option you want

For I beg earnestly, I hope

ps.

English is wrong

So I used a translator

Am I the only one who really luv the new osu!?

Aqo wrote:

One thing I don't understand is,
why try to fix things that weren't broken?

the old Miss style was GOOD. Why the hell change it?
the old slider tick style was GOOD. Why touch it?
the old scoreboard menu was GOOD. Why change anything? to annoy people?
the old pie was fine. Why put a dot in the middle? you think we're not smart enough to know where the middle is?

...

+100500.

If you are adding unnecessary crap because _you_ think this good idea, this doesnt mean that others think the same about this "features". And this update looks as imposing their tastes to others, because it is not possible to change back.

Silynn wrote:

If this is possible to do with skin customization, then that is fine

However, because you haven't released the template for the new default, no one was aware of this. I think the tone you used in this post was a little unnecessary.

Also, the misses are not the only problem and definitely not the biggest problem.

The ability to do animations on certain emelents has been around for a few months and information about it was in the threads as well as the changelog. Using a template alone wouldn't have made anyone easily aware of that function since single image animations are handled by the game unless there is the presence of an image sequence for elements with that ability.