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Toggles within skin.ini to restore old circle animation [invalid]

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +446
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Love
It is meant to fall, get used to it. I had no problems playing insanes with ar8-9.
Ohrami
The difference is that "playing" to you doesn't mean "doing good", unlike with me
Love

Kyou-kun wrote:

The difference is that "playing" to you doesn't mean "doing good", unlike with me
Sorry, but the ignorance in this post is just overwhelming. Just because you can't get used to change doesn't mean it should go back because a few people don't like it. Peppy has stated that it's not being changed back.
Topic Starter
ryza
Just because peppy says so doesn't mean we can't state our feelings and try to get him to change his mind.
Sakura
About reading slider speed changes, you shouldn't be required to use visual hints to read them anyways, you should be listening to the song.

I dont find much issue with the new skin other than the fact that the repeats' treshold before turning black is way too small atm and the new spinner sometimes makes me miss notes in the middle of it (tho i've always had trouble with notes on the center of spinners rather than to one of the sides)

About falling misses.... are they even that noticeable? i barely see them and i was trying on purpose to miss, yet i didn't see a thing until i focused really hard.
Ohrami

Sakura wrote:

About reading slider speed changes, you shouldn't be required to use visual hints to read them anyways, you should be listening to the song.
"You shouldn't be playing the game the way every good player has done it since forever, just do it the way Sakura does it!" gr8 idea m8!

I see no reason to be forced to read using an imperfect source (music) and then guessing about how the mapper decided to make his sliders based around it.
theowest

Kyou-kun wrote:

especially how the hit circles don't expand when tapped.
I always liked how that gave you a sense of completion. It felt like a hitburst in a way.
Sakura

Kyou-kun wrote:

then guessing about how the mapper decided to make his sliders based around it.
Guess work shouldn't be required at all tho...
Ohrami

Sakura wrote:

Kyou-kun wrote:

then guessing about how the mapper decided to make his sliders based around it.
Guess work shouldn't be required at all tho...
Which is why we should have visual cues on sliders.
Tripl3M
pls give me the old skin back! i cant even play anymore... HOW CAN YOU FORCE BIG CHANGES LIKE THIS!!!
Kite

Sakura wrote:

About reading slider speed changes, you shouldn't be required to use visual hints to read them anyways, you should be listening to the song.
Excuse me, slider speed changes depend on how the creator interprets the song in a map.
We need some sort of "visual hint" to see what the creator of a map made at certain spots.
I don't want to "feel" speed-downs.. it will just end up in hitting a slider and then break on it because you moved the cursor too fast.
Speed-downs or speed-ups work wonders on certain songs if used correctly, but you have to be able to tell when they appear.
lolcubes

RBRat3 wrote:

falling "X's" on miss -- makes me feel like I failed the map (seriously it feels like sudden death is on whenever I miss a note)
-You should feel like you failed.. You missed! This is the equivalent of telling your teach not to write F grades in red pen because the color feels violent and bad. Well the grade was bad...
The thing is, when you have a very fast long stream with big spacing, such falling X can be extremely distracting.
Personally I absolutely love the update, however the X is a bit annoying to me and would love at least a toggle to turn the animation off.

Sakura wrote:

Guess work shouldn't be required at all tho..
Yes, that is why you have ticks. Otherwise any slider speed change would be unrankable.
ztrot

Sakura wrote:

About reading slider speed changes, you shouldn't be required to use visual hints to read them anyways, you should be listening to the song.

I dont find much issue with the new skin other than the fact that the repeats' treshold before turning black is way too small atm and the new spinner sometimes makes me miss notes in the middle of it (tho i've always had trouble with notes on the center of spinners rather than to one of the sides)

About falling misses.... are they even that noticeable? i barely see them and i was trying on purpose to miss, yet i didn't see a thing until i focused really hard.
I have no words for this.
RBRat3

Kyou-kun wrote:

It's not an opinion. It is objectively harder to read sliders or to keep place after missing now.
Considering what I've done with skinning this change is only a drop of water compared to what I've blown out of proportion to what IS worse and still was able to FC a moderately hard song.

Seeing as you have a supporter tag you have the freedom to provide constructive criticism in testing phases which you had every opportunity to take part in. That changelog isn't a transparent sheet of glass it moves everyday which you can readily check and give feedback in test BEFORE it ever makes a step into public and for that I have no sympathy for you or anyone who holds a supporter tag and doesn't use it to their advantage.

At the very least give it the benefit of the doubt by actually playing on it for a week, It's not that much to ask for.
ProTofik
It's like i am on Bioware forum
-this feature is bad and those are my reasons
-stop being so entitled and get used to it

-300, 100, 50 buttons have almost the same colour and I can't tell them apart (I'm a bit colourblind)
-very hard to spot X/fail button
-It's not possible to hit anything after spinner
-Feedback after hitting is gone which makes my life even harder

Menu looks fine but gameplay is terrible.

Anyway, has anyone managed to fix it and restore original skin, even not HD?
I really want to play osu but I find it nearly impossible.
Aqo
One thing I don't understand is,
why try to fix things that weren't broken?

the old Miss style was GOOD. Why the hell change it?
the old slider tick style was GOOD. Why touch it?
the old scoreboard menu was GOOD. Why change anything? to annoy people?
the old pie was fine. Why put a dot in the middle? you think we're not smart enough to know where the middle is?

The addition of new-style followpoints is good.
Some other changes are good.
The new circle fade upon being-clicked-on is so-so. In some situations it's for the better and in others it's for the worse. Personally, after experimenting with this on different maps all day long, I can't really say I enjoy the new style. I'm indifferent to the playability of this (tried playing a lot with default skin and concluded that it's still sub-par to invisible skins so the moderate improvement is still not enough) and feel-wise the lack of popping of circles when you click on them makes it feel less fun when playing streams.

The problem with this update is that it changed things that did not call for a change. I really don't understand the mentality of not allowing to revert. Every single commercial game that I know has huge option menus that let users heavily customize their play experience with all various features that the game offered across patches, why most osu be different? There is no gain to be had in preventing users from playing with their preferred settings. It's always good to see new additions, but why not let each user pick which additions he is interested in applying and which ones they're not interested in? Why choose the road that pisses off all people to a different extent instead of the road that satisfies everybody?

The best way to please everybody is let users decide what /they/ want. There is a reason that the most popular games these days are sandbox games. It's not any different with UI decisions, and in a game like osu a UI is a big part of gameplay.
Kite
What Aqo said +1
pixeldesu
This 'may' sound like a toggle-like thing, but why don't apply everything for the new default skin (like just leaving it, as it is right now), so all the new players are seeing that osu! is a fresh and modern game and for the people who don't like all this, adding these new things as options they can choose in the skin.ini for example (or the new skinning menu)...like en/disabling the falling X's (but peppy already declined this before) and every other option that may distract people from playing or even change the feel of playing.

I personally only miss the bumping hitcircles, after hitting them, everything else is fine for me, thought.
kriers

RBRat3 wrote:

Considering what I've done with skinning this change is only a drop of water compared to what I've blown out of proportion to what IS worse and still was able to FC a moderately hard song.

Seeing as you have a supporter tag you have the freedom to provide constructive criticism in testing phases which you had every opportunity to take part in. That changelog isn't a transparent sheet of glass it moves everyday which you can readily check and give feedback in test BEFORE it ever makes a step into public and for that I have no sympathy for you or anyone who holds a supporter tag and doesn't use it to their advantage.
If I would log in on osu!test, I'd hardly find anyone around. This is not our problem, it's the game developers, and it is what makes the actual game the real platform for testing out new features. Because of this alone, all new additions that affect gameplay should at least come with a toggle.


Seeing developers who don't even play the game for real, refusing to listen to people who do is extremely frustrating. It makes me lose all faith.

I completely agree with Aqo.
DarkLance
Personally I like all the changes in the skin behaviour ( at first the miss looked weird for me, but as you don't like, it helps you not to fail, because you don't want to see the falling miss) but I think it should be implemented the possibility to change this behaviour in the skin.ini


Something like that:

MissStyle: 1 ( old behaviour)
MissStyle: 2 ( new behaviour)
RBRat3
Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it is something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.
theowest
This new miss behaviour is actually making it harder to play after missing with the taiko skin in taiko mode: t/123349/
Aqo

Lance5 wrote:

at first the miss looked weird for me, but as you don't like, it helps you not to fail, because you don't want to see the falling miss
Motivation won't help me miss less when I'm playing a 275bpm map with HR
Readability will

The hitburst change is the one thing that's really good about this update and has been called for, for a long time. Much of the rest is stuff that's... just... why...
Tshemmp

Sakura wrote:

About reading slider speed changes, you shouldn't be required to use visual hints to read them anyways, you should be listening to the song.
Hard to predict SV changes if you are listeing to a song the first time.

To be honest, about the new circle fading, I didn't notice any difference at all there, so I guess it is fine? I also got used to the "falling misses" pretty fast. Even the rather annyoing new result screen (you have to scroll down instead of just clicking >_>) might be something we will eventually get used to. The new slider tick behaviour however is something completely different, it makes sightreading impossible.

Also

Aqo wrote:

why try to fix things that weren't broken?
@ RBRat3: I didn't get a supporter tag to get access to the test build, so you cannot call it my duty to check new features there. I didn't pay to do work.
Topic Starter
ryza

RBRat3 wrote:

Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it is something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.
The players should not forced to be testers, sorry. That is not their job. This was forced onto us in live unnecessarily, the least you could do is give players a choice.
pixeldesu

RBRat3 wrote:

Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it its something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.
I was there for some time to..mostly about 5-7 hours in the last days, also reported some stuff, if there was anything important to mention.

Likely making a new skin or layout perfectly fitting the game without any bugs is hard work, so why do they need to rewind everything? Toggles would be fine, but the title is like "We want back the old one and burry the new one, because it changes our way of playing too much"...sure, not every change is a good one, but osu! needs a new style over the time. Most of the elements that were changed, are from 2007/8, so they were kinda outdated. The only thing (I guess) peppy and RBRat wanted to do, is giving osu! a fresh and modern style and they did it...it really looks neat, especially the new ranking with the map backgrounds is a huge and good change I wanted to see long time before. And with a new style, there coming things that people may dislike, but you'll actually have to be okay with that.

The only thing I have to say about this is: Play a bit around with the skin, or wait until the skin is available as new template and change it then. But respect the hard work behind everything of that, because the graphics and the code behind that weren't made in one sec. It would be nice to see most of these features as toggles for new skins, but completely disabling them would be a shame...
MLGnom
Seriously, with this update many of skins is kind of broken, especially I fell bad for old skins that won't get any updates. Forced Spinner transparency by default is a "great idea"...
Every "old" skin have spinners that NEEDS black background on widescreen and people don't even know they can set this in skin.ini, I'm pretty sure only some people knows about this.

If you wanted to make new osu! default skin, why won't add it as second default skin called "osu! default simplified" or something, AND add additional button to "use" new behaviour...

To be honest I don't really like idea making update to all of my skins... 13 of them. It's not something that you will do in 5 minutes. :/
RBRat3

Silynn wrote:

RBRat3 wrote:

Someone is always in test, Im in 24/7 and milli is when not passed out the same goes for peppy and a few others... We may not be around or awake but your messages are there. If it is something that is important to you there is a forum that exists USE IT.
The players should not forced to be testers, sorry. That is not their job. This was forced onto us in live unnecessarily, the least you could do is give players a choice.
You aren't forced to be tester, The information of changes is provided to you right here on this site for you to read it's not force of anything but your ability to read. If it is something that may apply to you go try it out, It's really not that hard. You have a choice to give constructive criticism or not.
Ohrami
Why does it matter whether or not criticism is given after the fact? I don't use the test version of osu!, and I think this update sucks. Is there really much difference between that and thinking it sucks before it comes out?
RBRat3

Kyou-kun wrote:

Why does it matter whether or not criticism is given after the fact? I don't use the test version of osu!, and I think this update sucks. Is there really much difference between that and thinking it sucks before it comes out?
Yes it matters because when it was in test you had the power to change or help before the fact.

There's a big difference between complaining and doing something about it.
Aqo
What's with this attitude of blaming issues on the players? This isn't getting anybody anywhere.

How about discuss the topic at hand?

The main purpose of features in this game is to appeal to its players. If there is a choice between two features and players prefer one over another, why go against this? You're hurting your own game. At the very least give a choice.
Kodora

RBRat3 wrote:

Yes it matters because when it was in test you had the power to change or help before the fact.

There's a big difference between complaining and doing something about it.
But never too late to change it in a better way, right?
kriers

RBRat3 wrote:

Kyou-kun wrote:

Why does it matter whether or not criticism is given after the fact? I don't use the test version of osu!, and I think this update sucks. Is there really much difference between that and thinking it sucks before it comes out?
Yes it matters because when it was in test you had the power to change or help before the fact.

There's a big difference between complaining and doing something about it.
There is no difference between complaining and constructive criticism. Sadly, it is you who decide what you want to call it.

I am really shocked how you blame it on us that we don't help you test out features... it should never end up becoming the users problem and fault.
RBRat3
I didn't place blame, I simply stated that there was an opportunity that could have been taken.
kriers

RBRat3 wrote:

I didn't place blame, I simply stated that there was an opportunity that could have been taken.
You talk as if the decision is final. You're even telling us what we should've done when most of us didn't even know such an opportunity even existed, let alone we had to take it. As things stand I just want a toggle. :/
RBRat3

kriers wrote:

RBRat3 wrote:

I didn't place blame, I simply stated that there was an opportunity that could have been taken.
You talk as if the decision is final. You're even telling us what we should've done when most of us didn't even know such an opportunity even existed, let alone we had to take it. As things stand I just want a toggle. :/
It may or may not be final, That's not up to me but when you become a supporter that opportunity was always there to help make osu! better when it comes to changes before it hits public.
TheVileOne
I like the changes. The new slider bodies are strange for the default skin, but they are just like the skin I like to use, so it doesn't even bother me. The new hitbursts increase visibility. It's a welcomed change. Perhaps there should be an option to use old defaults elements for pre-existing maps though. The new slider bodies may negatively affect certain maps.
theowest

TheVileOne wrote:

The new slider bodies may negatively affect certain maps.
How?
Kodora
Sliders can be changed back manually using skin.ini
Rokk
Why not get it over with and implement a toggle for stuff like falling X's and the slider ticks fading in now? Some maps give you a choice between either heavy memorization OR reading SV changes by slider ticks, which gets really hard when the ticks AREN'T THERE. So why force this on us? The falling X's annoy me to no end, and they annoy me even more when trying to play Taiko.

It makes me really lose faith in the dev when a lot of people are complaining about a specific thing and the developer just goes "Nope, not changing it.".

There's definitely good stuff in the new UI, but why swap something great out for something inferior? The new menus are completely fine and such, but at least implement a toggle for stuff some people tend to not like. That way, everybody wins. People who like the new stuff can use it, and the people who would like to play Taiko with any degree of decency can, too.
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