What are some of the maps you played that challenged you to your limit in skill? (It has to be something you’ve passed. Any rank you got is fine though)

For me, there are a bunch of maps but I usually don’t submit since the rank is usually 85% or lower.

I don't normally play things i can't hold good MA on these days, but back when i did play mashier stuff i had a few scores on stuff like c18 +DT, t&r +DT, Architecture, etc.

mashing out low acc scores is pretty pointless though, all you'll really improve at is mashing. if you find that to be fun, then by all means go ahead; just be aware of the kind of muscle memory youre building.

Lights wrote:

I don't normally play things i can't hold good MA on these days, but back when i did play mashier stuff i had a few scores on stuff like c18 +DT, t&r +DT, Architecture, etc.

mashing out low acc scores is pretty pointless though, all you'll really improve at is mashing. if you find that to be fun, then by all means go ahead; just be aware of the kind of muscle memory youre building.

Imo mashing is kinda pointless since you’re not really hitting patterns and more just spamming, though tbh sometimes if I can’t read a pattern I mash just for the sake of passing so for me it’s a last resort but I see where you’re coming from.

Definitely Galaxy Collapse. I didn't think I was capable of doing it because it had a lot of jumptrills and mini-vibro-or-idk-what-to-call-it. I had a choke at the end and then I couldn't do it again. I tried to build stamina as much as possible.

I somehow got a 93% it while in class so that was pretty epic lol.

Sebasmint wrote:

Lights wrote:

I don't normally play things i can't hold good MA on these days, but back when i did play mashier stuff i had a few scores on stuff like c18 +DT, t&r +DT, Architecture, etc.

mashing out low acc scores is pretty pointless though, all you'll really improve at is mashing. if you find that to be fun, then by all means go ahead; just be aware of the kind of muscle memory youre building.

Imo mashing is kinda pointless since you’re not really hitting patterns and more just spamming, though tbh sometimes if I can’t read a pattern I mash just for the sake of passing so for me it’s a last resort but I see where you’re coming from.

As someone who has spent a great deal of time playing songs that are too hard, I agree in principle with Lights, but I want to draw a distinction that I never see people talking about. There's a difference between mashing, and attempting but failing to play a pattern.

Mashing (as I define it) is the complete lack of any coordination at all in what you are doing, whereas the other approach I mentioned still at least attempts to hit the correct keys.

I'll be the first one to admit that I do on occasion mash through stuff. However, as you mentioned it's a last resort.

I've encountered many maps where there may be one or two sections that I simply cannot play, while the rest of the map is quite playable (for example, moni's other side map's inverse sections). While I still haven't managed an HP pass on it, those sections are the only 2 parts that give me serious trouble.

When I reach those parts it's not like I turn my brain off and just wildly mash the keyboard. I'm still actively trying to read and respond to the pattern, I'm just making too many mistakes.

I believe that while mashing outright accomplishes nothing, by trying to play through a pattern you can't yet correctly hit, you at the very least get some practice in both reading and playing. I'd say you get far more useful practice reading than playing, but regardless, I feel like there can be value to attempting stuff that is a bit too hard.

I'll qualify this by saying I think it's somewhat similar how practicing the same map over and over will generally lead to map specific improvements that only barely transfer to other maps, practicing maps that are above your skill level primarily improves your ability to play maps that are above your skill, or just slightly too hard. And I will straight up say that it's counterproductive to practice that kind of thing if you want to focus on getting good scores. It's mainly helpful for people who care less about their score than they do about simply passing things.

So if your goal is to simply pass harder and harder maps, I do believe getting some experience playing things that are outside your comfort zone and a bit too hard will help you get used to being in the position where you are faced with a pattern that is too hard, and can help you keep calm, focus, and push through in sections where others may feel overwhelmed.

However, it does not help improve your fundamentals, which is what leads to faster overall improvement. I'd personally say that if you care about passes on hard stuff, it's probably not a bad idea to practice stuff you can't quite pass, or stuff you struggle on a lot, but it's best to balance that with proper practice on easier stuff so you can also keep improving your fundamentals and not end up like me -.-

Bobbias wrote:

a lot of stuff

My statement was in response to scores around ~85% because thats the specific number he stated- i'd be inclined to assert that at accuracies like that, theres a good chance that its more "wild mashing" than "almost but not quite playing a pattern". around say like a 92 or 93, i would definitely agree that could be indicative of a few CB-rushes in an otherwise competent score.

fair point on stuff with difficulty spikes, though anything with that insane of a difficulty spike is probably just a bad chart. (in a case where you can mostly PFC most of the chart but fail half the time on a diff spike)

Fuck dump

Lights wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

a lot of stuff

My statement was in response to scores around ~85% because thats the specific number he stated- i'd be inclined to assert that at accuracies like that, theres a good chance that its more "wild mashing" than "almost but not quite playing a pattern". around say like a 92 or 93, i would definitely agree that could be indicative of a few CB-rushes in an otherwise competent score.

fair point on stuff with difficulty spikes, though anything with that insane of a difficulty spike is probably just a bad chart. (in a case where you can mostly PFC most of the chart but fail half the time on a diff spike)

I get a lot of scores in the 80s, which is what I was referring to as well. if you were to pay attention to my error bar while playing you'd see that a large amount of my lower accuracy comes from a very high unstable rate combined with the spikes.

I should make it clear that 7k mapping approaches difficulty spikes in a pretty different way to 4k. In 4k, most players share your opinion that large difficulty spikes generally indicate that a map is bad, but in 7k, especially coming from people who have experience mapping or playing o2jam or bms, embraces difficulty spikes. bms charts are notorious for having sudden difficulty spikes near the end (because easy clears require your HP to be 80%+ by the end of the song, and hard clears require you to have any health with a difficulty somewhere around HP9-10 range), and o2jam embraced screwing with the player in all sorts of ways.

If you look at the structure of moni's Other Side as an example, the map starts off relatively easy. It builds up until it reaches the chorus, and the chorus jumps into an inverse section which is considerably harder than everything around it. The whole idea is that it builds up towards each chorus, slams you with inverse, then winds down before building up again. There's a clear structure which makes sense. Similarly many 7k maps have a tendency to slowly build up in difficulty towards the end of the map, which sometimes ends with a difficulty spike as well. Those sorts of structures are completely acceptable in 7k, and are not considered hallmarks of bad maps the way most 4k players seem to consider them.

Bobbias wrote:

Lights wrote:

Bobbias wrote:

a lot of stuff

My statement was in response to scores around ~85% because thats the specific number he stated- i'd be inclined to assert that at accuracies like that, theres a good chance that its more "wild mashing" than "almost but not quite playing a pattern". around say like a 92 or 93, i would definitely agree that could be indicative of a few CB-rushes in an otherwise competent score.

fair point on stuff with difficulty spikes, though anything with that insane of a difficulty spike is probably just a bad chart. (in a case where you can mostly PFC most of the chart but fail half the time on a diff spike)

I get a lot of scores in the 80s, which is what I was referring to as well. if you were to pay attention to my error bar while playing you'd see that a large amount of my lower accuracy comes from a very high unstable rate combined with the spikes.

I should make it clear that 7k mapping approaches difficulty spikes in a pretty different way to 4k. In 4k, most players share your opinion that large difficulty spikes generally indicate that a map is bad, but in 7k, especially coming from people who have experience mapping or playing o2jam or bms, embraces difficulty spikes. bms charts are notorious for having sudden difficulty spikes near the end (because easy clears require your HP to be 80%+ by the end of the song, and hard clears require you to have any health with a difficulty somewhere around HP9-10 range), and o2jam embraced screwing with the player in all sorts of ways.

If you look at the structure of moni's Other Side as an example, the map starts off relatively easy. It builds up until it reaches the chorus, and the chorus jumps into an inverse section which is considerably harder than everything around it. The whole idea is that it builds up towards each chorus, slams you with inverse, then winds down before building up again. There's a clear structure which makes sense. Similarly many 7k maps have a tendency to slowly build up in difficulty towards the end of the map, which sometimes ends with a difficulty spike as well. Those sorts of structures are completely acceptable in 7k, and are not considered hallmarks of bad maps the way most 4k players seem to consider them.

In terms of 7key, maybe you're right- I don't really know enough about that game mode to speculate (as I've only ever played 4key). My philosophy comes from a background of 4key, if 7key players enjoy spikier stuff and playing for passes, then by all means play what you enjoy. when I refer to spikey difficulty being indicative of a bad chart, I'm referring to 4key charts like Triumph and Regret. (low bpm jumpstreams, but then doubled BPM on bursts that can only really be hit if you mash them or are insanely fast- and if you're that fast, the rest of the chart is trivial anyway)

Well yes, t&r is dumb because of those bursts. I'd compare it to something like space time's 7k chart. Difficulty spikes in 7k come in a lot of different forms. The good ones make sense structurally, and fit the song well without being dumb. Space time's bursts are basically bracket mashes turned into streams. Bracket mashes can sometimes make sense, but usually only for BMS style charts that have either dense chordstreams or bracket streams to begin with. Space time didn't really have either, which makes the bursts really stick out.

The point I was trying to make is that in 7k, there are other games which have drastically different cultures when it comes to mapping style and community culture. Lr2 does put emphasis on precision, since Poors reduce health, which acts as an anti-mash mechanic. O2jam has fairly strict HP when playing LNs, but overall fairly easy timing, which puts more emphasis on simply being able to get through a map without messing up the LNs much.

O2jam's scoring system is also jank as fuck, so it's useless. Combined with the way LNs are handled and you tend to get a culture that cares more about whether you can pass a map because simply passing an LN based map means you made very few mistakes on the LNs. Plus, since the official maps had a habit of using harsh SVs with a fairly restricted set of scroll speeds, that influenced how mappers mapped as well. Sometimes the main difficulty of a map would come from a bullshit mash pattern, dumb SVs, and other gimmicks, even on official maps.

Similarly, even official beatmania charts had bullshit endings. Which influenced that community to embrace that style.

In the case of BMS, there certainly is an element of the culture based around impressive accuracy (getting a AAA in iidx/lr2 is not easy on harder charts) but hard clears are also impressive purely because you're basically playing on hp10.

I'm not trying to imply that all 7k players focus on clears rather than score, but simply that there are people out there who do focus more on clears, and that there is a history of clears having importance in other 7k games, which isn't really a thing in 4k games, that I'm aware of anyway.

It just bothers me when people make overly general statements under the assumption that everything that applies to 4k culture also applies to every rhythm game.

Well, given we play completely different games, I would hope you don't take anything I say as attempting to be applicable to 7key. I don't want to derail this thread any further though- interesting history lesson on 7key VSRGs I suppose.

sorry to interupt but why can't you take this discussion to dms? xd

i dont know why did i think im capable of playing this

PositoniX wrote:

i dont know why did i think im capable of playing this

I know that skin xd. Nice