Ephemeral wrote:

gunterhaben wrote:

You just proved my point exactly, everyone thinks the "Logical" explanation because it's what they were "told" it takes an average mind to think like that. You can keep arguing all you want it just keeps proving my point. I am saying that people think logically because it is what they are told, and you have proven exactly that with your entire post.

I was enlightening people on the ideal of thinking OUTSIDE the box, and instead of using LOGIC to explain every aspect of our lives, that we should broaden our horizon and think more open mindedly about what things can possibly mean. None of you can even take that little concept and digest it in your insignificant brains due to the fact that you all keep going around in cirlces. "The logical explanation is..." that's all you think because that is what you were taught.

Now before you post something else that has to deal with "LOGIC" read this post and think, posting more about logic and what makes sense, is just proving my point that you are all close minded fools who have no creativity and/or have no will of your own. You are puppets who do what they are told, and think how they are told.

This is just a little something to try and help you open your eyes to this world of ours, but I highly doubt that any one of you will be able to understand the concept, therefore if you do not understand the concept do not be stupid enough to post further comments.

everyone thinks the logical conclusion first because it is the first viable conclusion that can be met with the evidence presented to them. this is not indicative of an "average mind" or whatever horseshit you want to label people with to make yourself feel more intelligent, it is base human behaviour and an intrinsic part of interacting with your environment. what you are doing is basically labeling people negatively because they have the GALL to drink water. what kind of sub human fuck does that? they clearly must be a lesser mind because who in their right mind drinks water, right?

you have some nerve criticizing people for laughing at your idea when all you've done is assign an arbitrary numerical value to the number of divinity present in another arbitrary measure of space. why does it have to be one god per galaxy? why not five hundred? what if every atom in our universe is actually an individual god?

just get out, seriously

I strongly disagree eph.

i sense mad

Just like to mention that I love Eph even though he's from Sydney which, frankly, is a silly place.

Kanye West wrote:

The universe is infinite, it contains an infinite number of galaxies and solar systems. Under your "theory", there is one god for every solar system and every galaxy. Therefore, an infinite number of gods.

saying the universe is infinite is the same as saying there is a god.there is no way to prove it.
in the case of the universe because we can only see 13billion lightyears away.

gunterhaben its great that you have a different view on all this than 99.9999% of the people, but dont go around saying that everybody who disagrees with you is inferior, that is just ignorant.

gunterhaben wrote:

You just proved my point exactly, everyone thinks the "Logical" explanation because it's what they were "told" it takes an average mind to think like that. You can keep arguing all you want it just keeps proving my point. I am saying that people think logically because it is what they are told, and you have proven exactly that with your entire post.

I was enlightening people on the ideal of thinking OUTSIDE the box, and instead of using LOGIC to explain every aspect of our lives, that we should broaden our horizon and think more open mindedly about what things can possibly mean. None of you can even take that little concept and digest it in your insignificant brains due to the fact that you all keep going around in cirlces. "The logical explanation is..." that's all you think because that is what you were taught.

Now before you post something else that has to deal with "LOGIC" read this post and think, posting more about logic and what makes sense, is just proving my point that you are all close minded fools who have no creativity and/or have no will of your own. You are puppets who do what they are told, and think how they are told.

This is just a little something to try and help you open your eyes to this world of ours, but I highly doubt that any one of you will be able to understand the concept, therefore if you do not understand the concept do not be stupid enough to post further comments.

Just a few things:
Logic =/= What you are told
Logic is the use of criteria (both valid and faulty) to prove a point
Creativity is a good thing, I don't deny it. However creativity and logic can go hand and hand together. You're allowed to have both, you know.

I personally am a skeptic athiest and will believe in nothing without definitive, factual proof. While you may think that believing in logic and proof is dumb, I, however, think it is very smart. On the other hand, while faith in a higher being or multiple higher beings may be warranted it is not necessarily the smarter opinion. That's exactly what this arguement boils down to, though, conflicting opinions. You can tell me all you want about multiple gods and your crazy polytheistic theories and I won't believe a single word of it until you can show me those gods exist.

If thinking without logic means I'm going to believe in some wacko polytheistic theory about the universe, I have no desire to think that way.

Congratulations, gunterhaben! You have gone full retard. Unfortunately, you should never go full retard.

Also, I think the pope's hat looks funny and I don't like that he approves his church's anti-gay-marriage propaganda.

The guy's resigning soon, though

Hello I'd like to add good reasoning for being an atheist

There have been thousands of religions over the course of human life, and there will be thousands more. To pick one, be it Christianity, Islam, etc is being almost as atheist as, well, an atheist. You're saying that thousands of gods don't exist either way.

Of all the religions that have ever existed, there has not been a single shred of evidence for any of them. Something so big and influential would surely leave evidence to observe, but the only things we can test (creationism as in the Bible, for example) have been proven completely wrong (fossil record, carbon dating).

Until we're presented with any evidence at all for a God, it's pretty ridiculous to simply say that there is one. A god isn't necessary to explain how we came to being anymore, although it was the best guess years ago.

DaddyCoolVipper wrote:

Hello I'd like to add good reasoning for being an atheist

There have been thousands of religions over the course of human life, and there will be thousands more. To pick one, be it Christianity, Islam, etc is being almost as atheist as, well, an atheist. You're saying that thousands of gods don't exist either way.

Of course, that I choose to believe one thing means that I've chosen to disbelieve any other conceivable idea, if that's what you mean by being atheistic. I can't see how's that relevant though.

Of all the religions that have ever existed, there has not been a single shred of evidence for any of them. Something so big and influential would surely leave evidence to observe, but the only things we can test (creationism as in the Bible, for example) have been proven completely wrong (fossil record, carbon dating).

Young Earth creationism, anyway

Until we're presented with any evidence at all for a God, it's pretty ridiculous to simply say that there is one. A god isn't necessary to explain how we came to being anymore, although it was the best guess years ago.

We've gone through this twice already, wanna go for a third one?

Brian OA wrote:

Until we're presented with any evidence at all for a God, it's pretty ridiculous to simply say that there is one. A god isn't necessary to explain how we came to being anymore, although it was the best guess years ago.

We've gone through this twice already, wanna go for a third one?

Yeah yeah I know, I'm just saying it's another reason to be atheist. Also I think the "box you can't open" reasoning is silly because you could apply it to anything we don't know how to answer anyway.

And nobody's doubting that, so no need to bring it up.

I got a theory about gravity being actually some force generated by chocolate you can't do any kind of experiment or observation to prove me right or wrong so it might be ok? So stars are made of a lot of chocolate, maybe.

It all cames to the point where you believe in God because... yeah God, there is no other argument other than "you can't prove he does not exist", which any science guy would slap you in the face for using it.

Did you guys know that I myself have a pet God? It's inside a box which is impossible to open but trust me there my pet God is there, I created him. We might aswell think it's true (and that I myself am a God since I created one) since you can't prove me wrong.

We all live inside the Matrix and we can't get out, I'm sure of it, you can't prove me wrong so we might aswell think I'm right.

Dark matter is made out of horse shit which for some reason is impossible to see right now, can't prove me wrong so etc.

That logic is fun. Just admit you believe in some God because... yeah God is cool #yolo #swag #religion #god.

Brian OA wrote:

And nobody's doubting that, so no need to bring it up.

My post would look emptier though!

As for you, Wishy, read the thread

Wishy wrote:

Just admit you believe in some God because... yeah God is cool #yolo #swag #religion #god.

A lot of atheists have retarded reasoning for being atheists. That does not only happen to religious people. In fact, I would bet that increasingly the cool thing for teenagers to do is to become atheists (in the west)

most teenagers around where i live get raised in an atheist family, so being atheist is not "the new cool" its just something thats taking over society

Purple wrote:

A lot of atheists have retarded reasoning for being atheists.

why does somebody need a reason to not believe in a fundamentally unprovable claim? moreover, why is it that you label their reasoning for not believing in said claim as retarded when actually it's more logically coherent to call out theists for having retarded reasons for being who they are?

also wow free will autonomy wow
people can choose what to believe wowowowowowo
wOW

silmarilen wrote:

most teenagers around where i live get raised in an atheist family, so being atheist is not "the new cool" its just something thats taking over society

In my generic Midwest suburb, being atheist is less acceptable than being gay

#americans

why does somebody need a reason to not believe in a fundamentally unprovable claim? moreover, why is it that you label their reasoning for not believing in said claim as retarded when actually it's more logically coherent to call out theists for having retarded reasons for being who they are?

Because if you yourself don't know why is it a fundamentally unprovable claim, then you are speaking out of your ass or quoting someone else. At worst, you probably bought into the idea of atheism from stuff like the communist manifesto (the whole opium for the pleaple crap) or you are just an atheist because the cool guy at school is an atheist. Does that sound reasonable to you or just another queer wanting to be seen as more intelligent than the others? I doubt you'd say that such idiot would have the same merits as, say, a quantum scientist. Hence why I call some atheist retarded the same way i call westboro babtist church activists retarded.

As for your second point, I simply have more sympathy for religious people than atheists, at least in general.

also wow free will autonomy wow
people can choose what to believe wowowowowowo
wOW

Care to elaborate before spewing out incoherent crap? If you think that within the realm of science there cannot exist a god, then you become an atheist. If you think that the realm of science does not and cannot answer all questions, leaving up room to
theorize whats beyond, then you can become religious if you so wish. Notice that by religious I don't mean joining a religious organization. You could become become whats called "spiritual but not religious" and still believe in a god-like entity. A lot of scientists don't have problem identifying the perfect and orderly nature of the universe as "God".

A little back story on my beliefs: I used to be a Christian and was raised as such but stopped believing in the Bible because of the absurdities, contradictions, and lack of evidences listed there. Why did bushes burn eternally back then if they don't today? Why did seas split? Why did donkeys talk? This alone encouraged me to think for myself and decide on what to believe in based on what I know. And I quickly became a skeptic, believing only what I know and what has been proven to me.

Something that always bothers me from an atheist standpoint is that theists always tend to demand proof that there is no God. Atheism is a lack of belief in deities and higher beings. How can we prove a lack of something? I can point at a closed box and say, "Look! It feels empty and looks empty so there must not be a God there!" But my argument is just as invalid as the argument of people who say they have something in a closed box when they really can't prove that they do. It's not that we have proof. Neither atheists or theists can procure valid, tanglible proof to prove their points. And honestly, sometimes I think agnosticism is the best standpoint to have. Agnostics get to claim the neutral ground. They usually don't believe in either because they just don't know which is true and won't believe in either until proven otherwise.

Now as far as why I am an atheist as opposed to an agnostic is a different story. You can say that scientific theories are just as far fetched as believing in a God, but allow me to explain myself. The big bang and evolutionism (while they may not have any proof backing them up) are theories that are widely accepted by the scientific community because of what supports them. While they may have no solid evidence to back them up they are widely accepted by the scientific community because certain facts suggest that they happened. But, again, sometimes those theories are just as far fetched as believing in a God. I personally don't cast my faith into anything unless I can prove it personally. When someone asks me why I believe in science and how what I believe isn't faith, I tell them this: Faith is believing unconditionally. And my condition in believing in science is that I can prove it with my own two hands, given enough time, dedication, and proper technologies.

I also oftentimes find it hard to see eye to eye with people who are theistic. I guess I need to have my beliefs challenged more often. That's probably why I decided to post this in the first place.

You need proof to say something exists.
You don't need proof to say something does not exist. Then again if I say the moon does not exist, you can easily prove me wrong, which is why when talking about something's existence the discussion is quite short, cause the answer is just "No" or the one claiming that the answer is no gets proven wrong in no time.

It's as simple as that, really. I don't care how the box feels you're claiming X is in there based on... nothing, so the right assumption is to say "you can believe whatever you want but logic dictates you can't be sure of what's there, you can just assume but it might be a God or a dead rat, and both are equally posible". Yet this example makes no sense since... isn't God everywhere or something?

Purple wrote:

also wow free will autonomy wow
people can choose what to believe wowowowowowo
wOW

Care to elaborate before spewing out incoherent crap? If you think that within the realm of science there cannot exist a god, then you become an atheist. If you think that the realm of science does not and cannot answer all questions, leaving up room to
theorize whats beyond, then you can become religious if you so wish. Notice that by religious I don't mean joining a religious organization. You could become become whats called "spiritual but not religious" and still believe in a god-like entity. A lot of scientists don't have problem identifying the perfect and orderly nature of the universe as "God".

...
you completely missed my point congrats. I was referring to the arbitrariness of saying someone's reason for being anything is wrong, because at the end of the day it really doesn't fucking matter because they can do what they want and there's no reason they should abide by your outside-the-box logic just because it's outside-the-box.

I have no problem with science and I have no problem with spirituality. Neither do I have a problem with people believing in God. This is what i mean by choosing what to believe. What it comes down to is it's our life and we should not be forced to think one way or the other by other people or by tradition or whatever... we should always be free to form our own beliefs, whether from a desire to fill a gap and find something missing - sate our sensus divinitatis if you will - or from logic.

I went over the thread.

People actually believe religion is a miracle factory, and will disappear when science says that Zeus being angry doesn't cause thunder.

W o w

That already happened.

How can we prove a lack of something?

You can prove that there is no rational number that is the square root of 2.

So yes, it is possible to prove a negative.

You need proof to say something exists.
You don't need proof to say something does not exist.Then again if I say the moon does not exist, you can easily prove me wrong, which is why when talking about something's existence the discussion is quite short, cause the answer is just "No" or the one claiming that the answer is no gets proven wrong in no time.

No, you still need proof when you say something does not exist. The burden of proof lies with the person making a claim. If I say "the moon does not exist" I would need proof, wouldn't I? I'd need to prove that that moon you see up there is an illusion and that the moon landing is a hoax, otherwise I'm wrong. Therefore your statement is flawed.

...Since we're bound to just go in circles and I'm almost certain Wishy and I will keep talking past each other until oblivion (inductive logic says so):

One reason of some: I believe there's a God because I have nothing to lose. If Christianity's wrong and I die, that's that, not like it mattered I'll still meet the same end as everyone else. If it's right, great for me.

Brian OA wrote:

One reason of some: I believe there's a God because I have nothing to lose. If Christianity's wrong and I die, that's that, not like it mattered I'll still meet the same end as everyone else. If it's right, great for me.

Why not other religions then? There are plenty of valid religions

I believe God is a gay nigger who likes having sex with babies and you can't prove me wrong.

So gee double ou dee good.

Wishy wrote:

I believe God is a gay nigger who likes having sex with babies and you can't prove me wrong.

So gee double ou dee good.

So in other words, I am god?

Wishy wrote:

I believe God is a gay nigger who likes having sex with babies and you can't prove me wrong.

So gee double ou dee good.

Odd, I thought you believed that there was no God at all.

I don't see anything saying otherwise so sure, believe that if you want to. I'm not going to pull a double standard out of my ass if that's why you're trying to provoke me.

Kaoru wrote:

Brian OA wrote:

One reason of some: I believe there's a God because I have nothing to lose. If Christianity's wrong and I die, that's that, not like it mattered I'll still meet the same end as everyone else. If it's right, great for me.

Why not other religions then? There are plenty of valid religions

Why bet on blacks and not reds at roulette?

I kid. It's because Christianity's ideals appeal to me the most out of any other. I believe that if I can meet them I can find happiness.

Because if I can overcome <insert deadly sin here> there's nothing to piss me off, nothing to hide or fear. I can do/focus what really matters to me (people, duties, etc) without wallowing in what's vain.

Now I believe in God he is a cool guy who rapes babies and produces hentai you can't prove I'm wrong so damn God is so evil why do you even like him.

God has no anus so he can't be raped that's nice.

This kind of logic where you can say anything since you can't be proved wrong is fun you can say anything and be right w/o any argument.

Brian OA wrote:

You can prove that there is no rational number that is the square root of 2.

The square root of 2 is a rational number. This is a mathematical fact.

If you mean integers, that's more of a positive proof. What you do there is this:

The square of 1 is 1.
The square of 2 is 4.
Therefore, the square root of 2 exists, but it is in-between 1 and 2. This means that it's not an integer.

What you're doing here isn't proving that the square root of 2 doesn't exist. It exists. What you're doing is figuring out that it does indeed exist, but it happens to be a non-integer.

The religious equivalent would be finding out that there is a God and that he's the only God but he happens to not be anything like the Christian God. But I didn't post here for anything to do with the current debate. The mathematical incorrectness just bugged me.

Wishy wrote:

Now I believe in God he is a cool guy who rapes babies and produces hentai you can't prove I'm wrong so damn God is so evil why do you even like him.

God has no anus so he can't be raped that's nice.

This kind of logic where you can say anything since you can't be proved wrong is fun you can say anything and be right w/o any argument.

This kind of logic where you can say anything since you can't be proved wrong is fun you can say anything and be right w/o any argument.

you can say anything and be right w/o any argument

You can say it if you want, but whether you're right or wrong is a completely different matter. The thing is when you say "I believe God is a dick" that's quite possible (see page 17 of this goddamned thread) but it's not certain. You can't determine whether that is right or not because, to quote Eph, "we know jackshit about divinity." You can assume certain things (e.g. the Bible is right) and try to draw logical conclusions from there, but it's still uncertain because the premises (the Bible, in this case) are uncertain anyway.

God could be a nice guy, He could be a dick, He could also have a fetish for asian babies and prolapsed anuses for all we know, but we can't know that. That's why you, me, or anyone in this thread making a claim about divinity's nature cannot be right.

Third time we have gone through this subject.

Ekaru wrote:

The mathematical incorrectness just bugged me.

Shit my math is so bad now I actually feel ashamed

You need to go to the university, study science and get up in class and start using that retarded logic of "if you can't prove it wrong I may as well say it's right".

Wishy wrote:

You need to go to the university, study science and get up in class and start using that retarded logic of "if you can't prove it wrong I may as well say it's right".

Holy fuck you're not even reading my posts

Haven't been reading any for many pages already you never made any sense and fail to understand how logic works. Won't bother reading any post of yours which is longer than... a few words.

Brian OA wrote:

Wishy wrote:

You need to go to the university, study science and get up in class and start using that retarded logic of "if you can't prove it wrong I may as well say it's right".

Holy fuck you're not even reading my posts

You realize that he's been more or less just fucking with you this entire time right

He's been thinking that there is no way to know that since I may or may not be fucking with him this entire time because there is no way to know for sure.

Wishy wrote:

He's been thinking that there is no way to know that since I may or may not be fucking with him this entire time because there is no way to know for sure.

oh wow, 2deep4me

Ekaru wrote:

You realize that he's been more or less just fucking with you this entire time right

Here I thought he was either still trying to make a point,was mentally challenged, or we were just talking past each other as if it were an art.

When you can't understand the basics of logic and reason you can NEVER call ANYONE mentally challenged, kid.

Some bible quotes to spice things up:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. ~John 1:1-5

Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

Proverbs 8:17
"I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me."

Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

John 1:17
"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."