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[Archived] "Only allow changes to local offset in first 10 seconds"

posted
Total Posts
53
plaird
15 posts
Joined October 2011
Topic Starter
plaird
This is problematic...
Because mappers sometimes set an incorrect BPM, the correct timing may become more off as the song progresses or in sudden shifts in BPM. There is sometimes a need to adjust the offset throughout the song.
And, it is more difficult to find the correct offset by adjusting before playing than by feeling an instant improvement by adjusting while playing...
What was this change meant to address?
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Timing shouldn't be off in the first place if you are talking about ranked beatmaps. Some of the old ones may have wrong timings, but no new ranked one should have timing problems and they are normally unranked fast if problems are found. Old beatmaps do not get unranked since they are so old and too many scores would be wipe.

If you can give some examples of some recently ranked beatmaps where timing are off, please list them.

From what I've read in an other thread, it's done like this so people cannot cheat in spinners.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
It shouldn't be ranked if it has the wrong bpm. Timing the correct BPM is one of the easiest things to do while making your map, unless there are more than one.
Mismagius
9,237 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

theowest wrote:

It shouldn't be ranked if it has the wrong bpm. Timing the correct BPM is one of the easiest things to do while making your map, unless there are more than one.
then again, maps older than 1 week don't get unranked because they have many plays.
plaird
15 posts
Joined October 2011
Topic Starter
plaird
I have to type more... how tedious...

theowest wrote:

It shouldn't be ranked if it has the wrong bpm. Timing the correct BPM is one of the easiest things to do while making your map, unless there are more than one.
Many older maps have the wrong BPM.
Even on new maps you may feel that you've incorrectly adjusted the offset and want to change it back but don't want to start over...

merchat7 wrote:

Timing shouldn't be off in the first place if you are talking about ranked beatmaps. Some of the old ones may have wrong timings, but no new ranked one should have timing problems and they are normally unranked fast if problems are found. Old beatmaps do not get unranked since they are so old and too many scores would be wipe.

If you can give some examples of some recently ranked beatmaps where timing are off, please list them.

From what I've read in an other thread, it's done like this so people cannot cheat in spinners.
By timing... do you mean BPM or offset?
It would be more accurate to say that there are no serious timing problems, not that there are no problems at all. To believe that the correct offset for every recent map is 0ms would be naive, but their BPMs are generally fine. It is common for me to feel that a map needs +/-5 or sometimes 10ms--at least in taiko mode I feel this way, I do not know if the timing is less strict in osu--and not to sound conceited, but given my accuracy I trust my instincts more than those of most others...

If the problem is only cheating with spinners then it only needs to be unchangeable near spinners, not everywhere.
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7

Wiki wrote:

Your map must be perfectly timed. This means that your BPM and offset are spot-on, sliders end when they should, notes are generally following a recognizable rhythm (such as the lyrics or drums) which is comprehensible by a player, and that there are no unsnapped notes (you can check this by running AIMod (shortcut ctrl+shift+a) in the editor).
If you have a problem with a timing of a beatmap (bpm or offset), contact a BAT. They'll probably verify with some people and change if necessary.

If they do not agree with you, then you are most likely wrong, while I'm aware that not everyone can tell the difference between 5-10 offset off, I know that there are people who can and some are in the BAT/MAT team.

So again, there is no need for this as any timing problem is a big problem and should be immediately reported to the appropriate people.
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
There are several ranked maps that have wrong timing. I thought most were fine and they are, indeed, but still there are plenty of those that have several timing lines, get ranked, then someone finds out timing is off and you can't fix it.
TicClick
Global Moderator
4,416 posts
Joined February 2011
TicClick
It's all fun and games until you meet something like http://osu.ppy.sh/s/1231. You also do know that Beatmap Approval Team can't fix incorrectly set BPM.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
There are way too many wrongly timed maps with wrong bpms. Quoting the rules and stating the obvious that all ranked maps should have perfect timing or shouldn't be ranked in the first place will not fix the problem. I have no idea why this change was made cause this only makes things really awkward on such maps.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
I was instantly punished by this new restriction. SO MANY maps have issues on offset and I used to chart all of these changes so I could change offset during gameplay for the really hardcore accuracy scores :(
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7

lolcubes wrote:

There are way too many wrongly timed maps with wrong bpms.
There is a big problem then.
xsrsbsns
1,936 posts
Joined July 2010
xsrsbsns

kriers wrote:

I was instantly punished by this new restriction. SO MANY maps have issues on offset and I used to chart all of these changes so I could change offset during gameplay for the really hardcore accuracy scores :(
Exactly this.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Please report incorrectly timed maps and we will fix them. This has always been the case.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers

peppy wrote:

Please report incorrectly timed maps and we will fix them. This has always been the case.
Let me just try and put things clear as to why I feel very unfairly treated right now:

Currently there are so many mistimed maps, even among the newer maps. This can be a due to damaged mp3s or mistiming that wasn't noticed by moderators when the mapset got ranked. This happens a lot, sadly. In most cases these irregularities in offset are only 2-10 ms, but that's very noticeable for players looking to get high accuracy on OD10. This is why we seek to change offset whenever we see the need for it, and usually we do that in the breaks where often the map lacks a new timeline to get the correct offset for that section.

The amount of maps out there with similar mistakes are huge and although we who need to change offset are in a minority, we are also the few players with the level of accuracy to actually notice. Us few can't report hundreds of issues like this. It's unfair and it will never be done this way simply because it's too much effort. In the end, us losing our ability to adjust mistakes for ourselves, is all there is to it in this change.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Please restart the map and change at the beginning, and also report the issues in the map thread or to a BAT directly. If there are many ranked maps like this, we need to get started fixing 'em. Local offsets are not the solution.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers

peppy wrote:

Please restart the map and change at the beginning.
I think you misunderstand my point. We often do several changes during one map where offset fleets back and forth. We want the ability to adjust to this again.

If all we can do is set offset from the beginning, we will be forced to play with that offset, even when it goes off balance later on in a map.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Please report in the map thread of to a BAT. Rather than each player fixing this, they should be fixed in the beatmaps.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

peppy wrote:

Please report incorrectly timed maps and we will fix them. This has always been the case.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/34083
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/15706

2 I remember on the fly where offset change mid map is sort of required because the incorrect BPMs make the maps go too slow/fast in such a manner than the difference between offset at the start and the end of the map is somewhere in 20ms range. With very high OD (hard rock), even OD8 nomod @2nd one they are nearly impossible to SS under normal means (without changing the offset while playing).
Having a static offset fix will not fix these issues.

peppy wrote:

Please report in the map thread of to a BAT. Rather than each player fixing this, they should be fixed in the beatmaps.
We can't fix bad BPMs though. :(
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers

lolcubes wrote:

We can't fix bad BPMs though. :(
We can still adjust by adding local offset. Or that was the case before.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
We can fix bad BPMs. It just takes a bit more effort. If enough are reported I will make sure the team looks into them.
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