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Top 25 Players of 2012 (osu! Standard) Discussion Thread
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It does matter to me, and to some other people too. Important enough for me to take it as a factor in deciding which are the best 15 players. But thats fine, its all just opinion, and I'm too lazy to vote anyway. Lets just try to not throw insults around.Wishy wrote:
doesn't matter how good you could get by getting a tablet or a touch screen.
Also, I would definitely include MillhioreF on the top 15.
Millhiore is amazing, especially with that playcount, but it's still too soon. I don't think he's top 25 material yet.
Meh.Purple wrote:
It does matter to me, and to some other people too. Important enough for me to take it as a factor in deciding which are the best 15 players. But thats fine, its all just opinion, and I'm too lazy to vote anyway. Lets just try to not throw insults around.Wishy wrote:
doesn't matter how good you could get by getting a tablet or a touch screen.
Also, I would definitely include MillhioreF on the top 15.
I vote for Shizuru- because he is a stupidly fast player, not just for mouse only. He has one of the best HD/DT of anyone regardless of the tools he uses. His replays are impressive before you find out he is mouse only. He's not quite top10, but I would say he could be top15 or 20.
Also some people say that cookiezi didn't play enough in 2012, but he had PLENTY of impressive scores in 2012 that put him atop the hill. He played enough at the start and end of 2012 and showed that he didn't need to be playing all of the months in between to prove himself. He played the first and last three months of the year and then took 6 months off. During those two periods he did big black (not beaten from the time he set it until 1900 plays from rrtyui a month or so ago), SS'd airman, freedom dive, rainbow dash, ect. If he can take 6 months off playing and come back to take rank 1 within the week and begin to stomp on everyone's scores like it's nothing, then he's the best of 2012. He ended the year on a terror, and is still going.
People like SilviA and Remilia, though, I understand being left out. They haven't done much this year, despite all they did in 2011. They are still amazing players, but haven't done much with their sporadic and limited activity. Others have out-shined them, so it makes sense to leave them off and recognize those who are still posting scores.
Also, making a top15 is hard. Lot of good players can be considered for the 5 spots that aren't cookiezi, niko, rucker, ww, rrtyui. Only a mere10 spots to sort out who makes the cut in an ocean of talent. Way more than 10 other names could be considered deserving of a spot. Will be interesting to see how it turns out!
Also some people say that cookiezi didn't play enough in 2012, but he had PLENTY of impressive scores in 2012 that put him atop the hill. He played enough at the start and end of 2012 and showed that he didn't need to be playing all of the months in between to prove himself. He played the first and last three months of the year and then took 6 months off. During those two periods he did big black (not beaten from the time he set it until 1900 plays from rrtyui a month or so ago), SS'd airman, freedom dive, rainbow dash, ect. If he can take 6 months off playing and come back to take rank 1 within the week and begin to stomp on everyone's scores like it's nothing, then he's the best of 2012. He ended the year on a terror, and is still going.
People like SilviA and Remilia, though, I understand being left out. They haven't done much this year, despite all they did in 2011. They are still amazing players, but haven't done much with their sporadic and limited activity. Others have out-shined them, so it makes sense to leave them off and recognize those who are still posting scores.
Also, making a top15 is hard. Lot of good players can be considered for the 5 spots that aren't cookiezi, niko, rucker, ww, rrtyui. Only a mere10 spots to sort out who makes the cut in an ocean of talent. Way more than 10 other names could be considered deserving of a spot. Will be interesting to see how it turns out!
If you get 100% on a math test without a calculator and your friend gets 100% on the same math test with a calculator, who is more skilled?Wishy wrote:
If you are pro mouse player and get FC on Airman, then tablet player comes and gets FC too. Who's got the best score? None, they are both as good, the mouse player shouldn't be considered better just because he is mouse.
Well if it is a basic trig test, the guy with the calculator is wasting his time, because you can just memorize some easy identities. Having a calculator will just make it harder.those wrote:
If you get 100% on a math test without a calculator and your friend gets 100% on the same math test with a calculator, who is more skilled?Wishy wrote:
If you are pro mouse player and get FC on Airman, then tablet player comes and gets FC too. Who's got the best score? None, they are both as good, the mouse player shouldn't be considered better just because he is mouse.
This thread should probably not turn into a mouse vs tablet discussion, that's been done to death
it's really silly and seems kind of off-topic to me, but whatever /o/
skill is based upon results, not methods. seriously. people do what is easiest for them, usually, just because someone plays mouse-only doesn't mean they can pick up tablet+kb and play even better than they already are.
it's really silly and seems kind of off-topic to me, but whatever /o/
skill is based upon results, not methods. seriously. people do what is easiest for them, usually, just because someone plays mouse-only doesn't mean they can pick up tablet+kb and play even better than they already are.
1- It doesn't matter, what we care are results, doesn't matter how you do it.those wrote:
If you get 100% on a math test without a calculator and your friend gets 100% on the same math test with a calculator, who is more skilled?
2- They are not doing the same thing. One is doing mental/on paper calculations, the other one is inputting data on a calculator to get the results.
3- Your example makes no sense, it would work if you replaced calculator with hacks/cheats since what you are mentioning is one guy using a tool to do something the other guy is doing by his own. If skill means being able to calculate hard math w/o using any tools and then get somewhat accurate results, then using a calculator is cheating since you are bypassing the process you are supposed to go through to get results.
Please stop arguing cause really that example does not only prove you wrong but is just retarded cause you are mixing up cheating with tablet/mouse differences. The calculator would just be a tool that helps you by-pass hard stuff, since by using it you don't need to do any calculations at all so you are not playing. It's pretty much the same as using aim hack + relax hack.
Arguing isn't going to solve anything.
People will be opinionated... Congratulations that's the nature of asking hundreds of people to vote on who "THEY" think are they top 25 players in a year.
/argument
People will be opinionated... Congratulations that's the nature of asking hundreds of people to vote on who "THEY" think are they top 25 players in a year.
/argument
This is not about opinions it's about people not understanding what being a top player means. And it's not that I THINK A TOP PLAYER IS THIS, a top player is an elite player whose one of the best (overall), that's it, doesn't matter if you think XXX should be considered a top player because OMG he can do hard stuff on mouse (assuming he is not even close to top players).
When something like this is stated of course opinions are going to be included. The only way to get a legitimate top 25 players would be to have only people who are knowledgeable enough in high level play vote and that would take a ridiculous amount of effort and time for a video that really is in the end pointless.Kanye West wrote:
vote who for you were actually 15 best players in osu! in the year 2012
It's the same thing in RL situations.
Personally, I don't think linear-scale scoring should be adopted.Kanye West wrote:
Yes, order counts. I'm going by a point system, 15 points for #1 to 1 point for #15, etc.
For example, if the scores are very tight between #1 and #2, any extreme cases will make the interval between two of them disperse. In case an extreme vote puts #2 into #10, #2 will eventually lost 10 marks, whereas each vote #1 and #2 ideally should have only an interval of 1 mark. #2 will suffer a great loss of marks. Deviation will then be resulted.
I know that it is very difficult to create an absolutely just score method, but i hope it could be a reference to make the result more objective. And I am really looking forward to the video
Topic Starter
If you know a specific method that works better, please share.AdonixSS wrote:
Personally, I don't think linear-scale scoring should be adopted.Kanye West wrote:
Yes, order counts. I'm going by a point system, 15 points for #1 to 1 point for #15, etc.
For example, if the scores are very tight between #1 and #2, any extreme cases will make the interval between two of them disperse. In case an extreme vote puts #2 into #10, #2 will eventually lost 10 marks, whereas each vote #1 and #2 ideally should have only an interval of 1 mark. #2 will suffer a great loss of marks. Deviation will then be resulted.
I know that it is very difficult to create an absolutely just score method, but i hope it could be a reference to make the result more objective. And I am really looking forward to the video
millhioref honey pls delete my post in the other thread after you think lesslunatic has seen it
I'm too lazy
I'm too lazy
Topic Starter
Millhiore is not your personal janitor
he's mine
just kidding
he's mine
just kidding
Make a pool of the 30 most voted players, send them all PMs asking to give scoreboards of their 10 most impressive plays in their own opinion, do a re-voting for picking 15 out of those 30 based on only the scores they all chose for themselves.Kanye West wrote:
If you know a specific method that works better, please share.
This would actually narrow does diversity of people not knowing wtf they're voting for and make the final results a lot more accurate.
is it even 15 or 25 25 would be better
I am everyone's janitor. The world is my floor, and I am the mop.
Also, seriously guys, I'm not actually good at playing, I can just read really low AR and that's it. In terms of actual skill I'm probably around rank 2000.
Also, seriously guys, I'm not actually good at playing, I can just read really low AR and that's it. In terms of actual skill I'm probably around rank 2000.
dt+hr is not really that hard, play 1-2 days of that and you'll get used to it. Being able to play DT+HR doesn't make someone insta-proJAKACHAN wrote:
And his ridiculous DT + HR's are exactly why whether he is legit or not is questioned.Purple wrote:
Shadowsoul has a few DT + HR and approved map scores. Give the guy a break, hes not as completely useless as you think he is.
While you insist on insulting one another, please remember this:
If you do not understand the meaning, refrain of criticizing others' votes. Opinions are not meant to fought about, they are meant to be understood.Bertrand Russell wrote:
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision
After narrowing it down, ask them vs each other using owc standard would be better ?Aqo wrote:
Make a pool of the 30 most voted players, send them all PMs asking to give scoreboards of their 10 most impressive plays in their own opinion, do a re-voting for picking 15 out of those 30 based on only the scores they all chose for themselves.Kanye West wrote:
If you know a specific method that works better, please share.
This would actually narrow does diversity of people not knowing wtf they're voting for and make the final results a lot more accurate.
is it even 15 or 25 25 would be better
I don't think this should be a competition, but a community poll.Maneuver wrote:
After narrowing it down, ask them vs each other using owc standard would be better ?
ethox is the coolest guyethox wrote:
While you insist on insulting one another, please remember this:If you do not understand the meaning, refrain of criticizing others' votes. Opinions are not meant to fought about, they are meant to be understood.Bertrand Russell wrote:
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision
Yeah, sorry for not specifying - I meant putting it in the actual video.Kanye West wrote:
As for that second part, you mean in the video?
I had imagined the words showing up simultaneously with the list rank number(if you're doing what LL did in the 2010 video, small pauses with black screens + number). I don't know. Just a thought.
All I want is one person to vote for me. Then I can die happy.
Main problem is the overall syndrome of ignorance in the people of the world, and let me explain why players have different skill level understandings.
By saying overall ignorance I am directly referring to the very well known event in life called popularity.Most of the people listen to Nicki Minaj and other shits just because it's mainstream and everyone knows it and it's easily listenable.Imagine now the person is listening to Nicki Minaj, ALTHOUGH he has a potential of being a Metallica fan if he actually knew the existence of the group (thats a stupid example but I guess you get my point).In osu! THE MASS players have a skill level of comprehension of Hard difficulty maps in the best case, now they don't really even download approved maps, and don't search for general hard type maps like maps from BMS.Their map folder is consisted of most likely 70 % Nightcore and 30 % Vocaloid/Touhou.Now they don't enter the performance ranking section, or even if they do they don't remember anything from it, they aren't serious about osu! at all, BUT what they remember is how when they play their HARD difficulty nightcore map, some names just repeated in their head like ShadowSoul being always #1, so basically that's the only player they think it's the best since it's always #1 on the maps THEY play, and immediately make an assumption ''ohmahgod, shadowsoul so pro he SS my sexy hard nightcore I cant even A rank'' and they don't care the someone named Cookiezi did an SS on a map they don't even have in their folders(airman).
that was the main problem
Now there are those type of people, I am sure you've met them before in real life too, they are a little more serious about osu!, most likely because of their gaming nature, and they probably even watched the previous top2011 video and actually keep track of what's going on but they are self-delusional and use every piece of information they have in the wrong way(usually using outdated or not confirmed information).And the example is voting for Remillia-Scarlet or SiLViA, they are doing that because they are aware R-S is the BESTEST STREAMERZ and Silvia is a inhuman mouse players, but those aren't even active players anymore and can't be included in the top2012 at all.
those two groups were the bad groups, from now here - only opinions...
Basically it's known that Cookiezi is the best, I fucking hate mainstream shits and exaggerated claims, but this is the goddamn true, and I don't see anyone's REMOTE LOGIC when saying WW or anyone else is better.I personally have an idol in the name of rrtyui at this point of my osu! progress, but I just bow to Cookiezi for being the best( he is just too god to even dream I can be like him ;DDD).
I would say that the obligatory top3 is Cookiezi,Niko,rrtyui.
No hate on SS or WW, I think they are great players which deserve respect for the massive skill and the great effort put in that game, I also think the same for Sette and many other players who are known to get overrated by the system but underrated by the community.
By saying overall ignorance I am directly referring to the very well known event in life called popularity.Most of the people listen to Nicki Minaj and other shits just because it's mainstream and everyone knows it and it's easily listenable.Imagine now the person is listening to Nicki Minaj, ALTHOUGH he has a potential of being a Metallica fan if he actually knew the existence of the group (thats a stupid example but I guess you get my point).In osu! THE MASS players have a skill level of comprehension of Hard difficulty maps in the best case, now they don't really even download approved maps, and don't search for general hard type maps like maps from BMS.Their map folder is consisted of most likely 70 % Nightcore and 30 % Vocaloid/Touhou.Now they don't enter the performance ranking section, or even if they do they don't remember anything from it, they aren't serious about osu! at all, BUT what they remember is how when they play their HARD difficulty nightcore map, some names just repeated in their head like ShadowSoul being always #1, so basically that's the only player they think it's the best since it's always #1 on the maps THEY play, and immediately make an assumption ''ohmahgod, shadowsoul so pro he SS my sexy hard nightcore I cant even A rank'' and they don't care the someone named Cookiezi did an SS on a map they don't even have in their folders(airman).
that was the main problem
Now there are those type of people, I am sure you've met them before in real life too, they are a little more serious about osu!, most likely because of their gaming nature, and they probably even watched the previous top2011 video and actually keep track of what's going on but they are self-delusional and use every piece of information they have in the wrong way(usually using outdated or not confirmed information).And the example is voting for Remillia-Scarlet or SiLViA, they are doing that because they are aware R-S is the BESTEST STREAMERZ and Silvia is a inhuman mouse players, but those aren't even active players anymore and can't be included in the top2012 at all.
those two groups were the bad groups, from now here - only opinions...
Basically it's known that Cookiezi is the best, I fucking hate mainstream shits and exaggerated claims, but this is the goddamn true, and I don't see anyone's REMOTE LOGIC when saying WW or anyone else is better.I personally have an idol in the name of rrtyui at this point of my osu! progress, but I just bow to Cookiezi for being the best( he is just too god to even dream I can be like him ;DDD).
I would say that the obligatory top3 is Cookiezi,Niko,rrtyui.
No hate on SS or WW, I think they are great players which deserve respect for the massive skill and the great effort put in that game, I also think the same for Sette and many other players who are known to get overrated by the system but underrated by the community.
Topic Starter
At this point you already have a top 25, why do an entire revote just to maybe change the order a little? You'd basically make everyone revote again, put more work on the mods to watch the thread again and me to make another spreadsheet xDAqo wrote:
Make a pool of the 30 most voted players, send them all PMs asking to give scoreboards of their 10 most impressive plays in their own opinion, do a re-voting for picking 15 out of those 30 based on only the scores they all chose for themselves.Kanye West wrote:
If you know a specific method that works better, please share.
This would actually narrow does diversity of people not knowing wtf they're voting for and make the final results a lot more accurate.
is it even 15 or 25 25 would be better
If there turns out to be a huge anomaly in the result, then I might consider doing this. But for now, I think the system I'm going to use is fine (which is basically the same as lesslunatic's last year).
I'll forward this to Zexous and see what he thinks.-GN wrote:
Yeah, sorry for not specifying - I meant putting it in the actual video.Kanye West wrote:
As for that second part, you mean in the video?
I had imagined the words showing up simultaneously with the list rank number(if you're doing what LL did in the 2010 video, small pauses with black screens + number). I don't know. Just a thought.
If you get some shit that can be compared to ShaggoN getting a higher rank than Rucker just change it w/o saying a thing hueuheuh.
Topic Starter
I always had the impression that ShaggoN actually was better than Rucker from watching that video (at least in 2010)
but I don't know, I wasn't around in 2010
but I don't know, I wasn't around in 2010
I don't even remember ShaggoN playing that much while Rucker was pretty much the only player who fought Cookiezi on many maps most people could not even dare to play.
who is this "thelawa" scorpiour is putting on his 3rd place?
lol damn
ouch sorry fixed T.T
Does anybody seriously think the top 4 are not Cookiezi, Niko, White Wolf, rrtyui?
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/133938&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/144029&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/157321?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/94416&m=0
Find any other contender for top 4 who can do any of this /at all/, even with infinite retries.
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/133938&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/144029&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/157321?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/94416&m=0
Find any other contender for top 4 who can do any of this /at all/, even with infinite retries.
How can they be the top 4 when lily-kun is #1
also why is no one voting lily-kun best of 2012
also why is no one voting lily-kun best of 2012
loldAqo wrote:
Does anybody seriously think the top 4 are not Cookiezi, Niko, White Wolf, rrtyui?
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/133938&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/144029&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/157321?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/94416&m=0
Find any other contender for top 4 who can do any of this /at all/, even with infinite retries.
so getting 95% on Forgotten [grumd] after several months break is nothing yup ok, and then setting some top scores easily with zero effortJappyBabes wrote:
ww
look at his profile and look at his top ranks from 3-1 weeks ago. everything either top5 great acc hardest mods of other top scores, or the-only-DT-on-scoreboard.
also all of the plays he did in 2012 before his big break, like http://osu.ppy.sh/b/64267&m=0 and http://osu.ppy.sh/b/132466&m=0 and many more. find me other people who are not cookie, niko, or rrt, who can go ahead and match this.
or are you judging him because of that bad-play 67% nf on big money right when he came back from his break? that's like saying that cookiezi is bad because he failed on talent shredder in a random play right after his break. this doesn't show anything, guys took a break, pls
the votes in the vote thread make me cringe, most of the voters seem to not even know any players at all
TTTL has some unique DT scores, so you could -maybe- argue that hes better than one of them, but it'd be pretty hard.Aqo wrote:
Does anybody seriously think the top 4 are not Cookiezi, Niko, White Wolf, rrtyui?
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/133938&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/144029&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/157321?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/94416&m=0
Find any other contender for top 4 who can do any of this /at all/, even with infinite retries.
TTTL doesn't have much else though, he is probably top 15, but not top 5.Purple wrote:
TTTL has some unique DT scores, so you could -maybe- argue that hes better than one of them, but it'd be pretty hard.Aqo wrote:
Does anybody seriously think the top 4 are not Cookiezi, Niko, White Wolf, rrtyui?
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/133938&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/144029&m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/157321?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/94416&m=0
Find any other contender for top 4 who can do any of this /at all/, even with infinite retries.