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Knife Party - Bonfire [Osu|Taiko]

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Asphyxia
osu! Alumni
1,986 posts
Joined June 2012
Asphyxia
We discussed with other BATs and this needs to get unranked due to 00:55:182 (1) -unclear path on the top and it covers itself, you should get this fixed asap so I can re-qualify! (and the other same kind of sliders too)

sorry for the inconvenience!

edit: Told Inv to nerf the wiggle sliders too
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
How about adjusting the rule instead of unranking this. Even peppy said it was fine.

1) They're totally playable. Even if you go on the other side, you don't miss.
2) Okay, let's assume you really miss now. Who cares - you can replay it, can't you? The map is enjoyed by many people apparently, I didn't really see a flame about those sliders. Yes, it might be a rule but .. you should also see yourself what's okay and what not.
69653863
1,818 posts
Joined January 2012
Topic Starter
69653863
dank

Gonna ask some other BATs regarding the wobble sliders. I am seriously not sure about how it is unrankable, as they play totally fine (these didn't make you break any combo at all even on first plays)
Last edited by 69653863 , edited 1 time in total.
Mismagius
9,237 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
that rule seriously needs to be reworded. The rule was made to avoid extremely wobbly sliders and burai sliders. This case isn't any of these, so it shouldn't be a problem. The slider is completely readable and playable.
Lanturn
osu! Alumni
3,912 posts
Joined March 2012
Lanturn

inverness wrote:

rip la turn allmods
;_;

Good luck getting this re-ranked <3
10nya
2,746 posts
Joined February 2011
10nya
congrats on first unranked map, inverness!

/me runs wildly*

well, if you drag your cursor to the left at those wubble slider it wont make slider-miss too but meh
Raging Bull
2,785 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Kinda sucks. I think some maps were also changed because of that rule and now that they finally decide to change the wording.


On topic. Slider was awesome. Although gives me a good reason to replay this map and aim for FC. :(
Garven
osu! Alumni
5,857 posts
Joined January 2010
Garven
I pretended like I knew what was going on for a while.
SPOILER
2014-07-13 19:11 Garven: Hi
2014-07-13 19:11 inverness: omg its garven O.o
2014-07-13 19:11 inverness: how can i help you this morning? :3
2014-07-13 19:11 Garven: Apparently I'm getting dragged into your recent unrank haha
2014-07-13 19:11 Garven: I'm not exactly sure what's going on
2014-07-13 19:11 inverness: Oh,
2014-07-13 19:11 inverness: so um
2014-07-13 19:11 Garven: but the map isn't going to go anywhere until you at least address the unranking post.
2014-07-13 19:12 Garven: Right now all I see is some sarcastic "rip" post which makes me think you're just being an ass
2014-07-13 19:12 inverness: rip?
2014-07-13 19:12 Garven: p/3231578
2014-07-13 19:13 inverness: uhh well that was just for the lulz
2014-07-13 19:13 inverness: in serious,
2014-07-13 19:13 inverness: i've asked like some bats and they're okay with the issue
2014-07-13 19:13 inverness: So here's the issue:
2014-07-13 19:14 Garven: From what I recall, peppy suggested that you make the curve on the problem sliders more rounded
2014-07-13 19:14 inverness: http://puu.sh/aafpV/838a4b13fd.jpg A BAT says that this is unrankable due to covered sliderborder on the sliderhead
2014-07-13 19:14 Garven: It'll make the slider play the same but will look more readable
2014-07-13 19:14 inverness: yes
2014-07-13 19:15 inverness: Well the issue is this is actually readable enough
2014-07-13 19:15 inverness: problem*
2014-07-13 19:15 inverness: and relying on slider leniency nothing should become problem in playing this
2014-07-13 19:15 Garven: It's good practice to have the slider borders visible
2014-07-13 19:15 inverness: Huh?
2014-07-13 19:15 Garven: So if you could maybe alter the curve so that it's a bit further out but it will essentially play the same
2014-07-13 19:16 inverness: uh like how, I actually couldn't do anything much in altering the shape
2014-07-13 19:16 inverness: due to limited length in SV
2014-07-13 19:16 inverness: theres no way i can change it except making it ugly
2014-07-13 19:16 inverness: and really, no one is actually having any problem here unless some people
2014-07-13 19:17 inverness: which i see they're just way too cautious and relying on outdated ranking critera
2014-07-13 19:17 Garven: Sorry for trying to adhere to guidelines we've had for a long time
2014-07-13 19:17 Garven: But anyway
2014-07-13 19:18 Garven: A 5-second slider but the general illustration: http://puu.sh/aafHy/c0b6542302.jpg
2014-07-13 19:18 Garven: You can tell the direction it's going to go and the general playability won't really be effected
2014-07-13 19:19 inverness: Isn't the curve in my slider already show how the direction is going?
2014-07-13 19:20 inverness: it's like, spiral movement
2014-07-13 19:20 inverness: this does not affect general playability at all in first glance
2014-07-13 19:20 inverness: On most players.
2014-07-13 19:20 Garven: But it's so tight around the hitcircle itself that it's pretty much stopping all movement of the slider
2014-07-13 19:21 Garven: Which should make upper-level modders cautious since it's getting to the point of the buraiish stuff
2014-07-13 19:21 inverness: But it's visible enough to see the movements of the sliderball
2014-07-13 19:21 inverness: in which most players could easily follow
2014-07-13 19:21 Garven: I'm talking about the overall movement though
2014-07-13 19:22 Garven: With that slider, you're essentially pausing before the ball starts moving again
2014-07-13 19:22 Garven: Or at least that you'll have to move your cursor to follow it
2014-07-13 19:22 inverness: Yeah I see
2014-07-13 19:22 Garven: I'm sure with the area leniency people won't be missing, but it's similar in concept to having a crazy wiggle at the start before the slider moves again
2014-07-13 19:23 Garven: That's where I am coming from.
2014-07-13 19:23 inverness: Mh but I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have any problem with it and they'll be like "what was that? oh i've passed it ok nvm"
2014-07-13 19:23 inverness: But
2014-07-13 19:23 Garven: You really don't want people asking that though
2014-07-13 19:23 Garven: That smells of a readability problem if that's happening.
2014-07-13 19:23 inverness: If the paused movement of the slider basically makes sense, why not
2014-07-13 19:23 inverness: ?
2014-07-13 19:24 inverness: Like i
2014-07-13 19:24 inverness: Like i'm pretty sure it is totaly readable (there's a wiggle in the sliderhead, hence you know what to do)
2014-07-13 19:24 inverness: Unlike burai sliedrs in which they're unreadable
2014-07-13 19:25 Garven: Well, the reason we frown on the extreme wiggles is because you don't know how long the wiggle effect is going to last.
2014-07-13 19:25 Garven: So I suppose you could argue that with the curve you have a better idea of how long it's going to last
2014-07-13 19:25 Garven: That said, I'd still like it to be expanded a little bit just for general reduction of 'wtf'
2014-07-13 19:26 inverness: Well here you can clearly see the csliderball is "revolving" the wiggle in a very obvious way
2014-07-13 19:26 Garven: Does that sound fair?
2014-07-13 19:26 inverness: Uh like how? I couldn't reproduce
2014-07-13 19:26 Garven: Can you /np the map?
2014-07-13 19:26 Garven: I don't even have it :U
2014-07-13 19:27 inverness: oh LOL i thought you were arguing about this along witht he map
2014-07-13 19:27 inverness: ACTION is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/281918 Knife Party - Bonfire [Rage]]
2014-07-13 19:27 Garven: Nope
2014-07-13 19:27 Garven: I'm just talknig about the concepts of mapping
2014-07-13 19:27 Garven: Have a timestamp?
2014-07-13 19:27 Garven: I'm assuming in the hardest difficulty
2014-07-13 19:27 inverness: Well you had to look on the map in order to understand how the mapper---
2014-07-13 19:27 inverness: 00:55:182 (1) -
2014-07-13 19:27 inverness: yes, i nped the rage dif
2014-07-13 19:28 Garven: There are basics in mapping that apply to any map. You don't need musical context
2014-07-13 19:28 inverness: Sometimes you do
2014-07-13 19:28 inverness: Like for example you can't use wiggles everywhere you want
2014-07-13 19:28 inverness: Here I use it to follow the drill sound from the dubstep drop
2014-07-13 19:30 Garven: Couldn't you do something similar to 01:06:216 (1) - then?
2014-07-13 19:30 Garven: It'd make your map more consistent anyway
2014-07-13 19:30 inverness: I'd like some variations :I
2014-07-13 19:31 inverness: Like tell me you wouldn't like so much copy paste in shapes
2014-07-13 19:31 inverness: of the slider
2014-07-13 19:31 inverness: that's just uncreative :P
2014-07-13 19:31 Garven: 01:39:320 (1) - You sure about that?
2014-07-13 19:31 Garven: And you obviously don't know me
2014-07-13 19:31 inverness: It's well it's different
2014-07-13 19:31 Garven: I actually like copy/pasted stuff
2014-07-13 19:31 Garven: As long as the pasted pattern is actually good
2014-07-13 19:31 inverness: In fact I don't know a lot
2014-07-13 19:31 inverness: I can see
2014-07-13 19:32 inverness: But oh well what i mean by variations here is like
2014-07-13 19:32 Garven: I understand what you mean, don't worry
2014-07-13 19:32 inverness: I dont want to reuse 1 slider like so many times
2014-07-13 19:32 inverness: :D
2014-07-13 19:32 Garven: You can always... try to make similar ones but not actual copy/pastes you know
2014-07-13 19:32 inverness: Yeah
2014-07-13 19:33 Garven: You want to give a similar feeling at least without outright copy/pasting
2014-07-13 19:33 Garven: So using jumps in the same places as the music repeats etc.
2014-07-13 19:33 inverness: I see
2014-07-13 19:34 Garven: From what I see you have a good grasp on rhythm at least, which is refreshing
2014-07-13 19:34 inverness: I take that as a compliment :D
2014-07-13 19:34 Garven: I don't like the extended sliders everywhere, but everyone is doing it. #oldfartrage
2014-07-13 19:34 Garven: But yeah, honestly you use those wiggle sliders all over anyway. I don't see why having two more will break the feel of the map.
2014-07-13 19:35 inverness: :)
2014-07-13 19:35 Garven: If you used those spinny sliders -more- then I'd suggest you use them instead
2014-07-13 19:35 Garven: But since they are the minority, I'd say use more wiggles
2014-07-13 19:35 Garven: It'd fit more with the design of the verses too like at 02:01:389 (1) -
2014-07-13 19:36 inverness: Hmmm, their current presence is balanced enough imo
2014-07-13 19:36 inverness: And I prefer to use the wiggly sliders only at the drop
2014-07-13 19:37 Garven: The weird thing is that you didn't use the spinning slider at the same points in the song
2014-07-13 19:37 Garven: 00:55:182 (1) - This one is the start of the chorus
2014-07-13 19:37 Garven: When it happens again in the same chorus, it's a wiggle slider01:06:216 (1) -
2014-07-13 19:37 inverness: Hmm
2014-07-13 19:37 Garven: But then at the next one, you start with a wiggle
2014-07-13 19:37 Garven: 01:39:320 (1) -
2014-07-13 19:37 inverness: Maybe because I like it this way? :D
2014-07-13 19:37 Garven: And continue the wiggle 01:50:354 (1) -
2014-07-13 19:37 Garven: I'm just speaking from a consistency perspective here
2014-07-13 19:38 inverness: I can see that
2014-07-13 19:38 Garven: The second spinning slider isn't even at the same point in the song 01:42:078 (1) -
2014-07-13 19:38 Garven: So I don't even see what youre talking about with using it at the drop
2014-07-13 19:39 Garven: Anyway, I wasn't planning on modding this late today since I have stuff to do so uh
2014-07-13 19:39 inverness: But Irre asked you to give your opinions on the sliders only :S
2014-07-13 19:39 Garven: I'll just post this in the thread or something. Maybe we can continue later
2014-07-13 19:40 inverness: Sure thing
2014-07-13 19:40 Garven: I have a tendancy to mod more than just what was asked
2014-07-13 19:40 inverness: Thanks by the way :D
2014-07-13 19:40 Garven: Since getting the big picture helps a lot
2014-07-13 19:40 inverness: ah
quiz-chan_DELETED
quiz-chan_DELETED
I don't see the problem here?
rerank

edit: what is an actual issue is the extremely high HP drop when you miss a note, which makes complete HP regeneration fairly hard. That's also because of the high OD in combination with high HP settings. There aren't even that many streams, to begin with and once you missed, the remaining objects are barely enough to refill the HP bar.

just my two cents though, already discussed with inv.
pw384
2,287 posts
Joined January 2012
pw384
I am sure someone misunderstood the rule. This kind of slider has been ranked for at least 5 times after the rule is determined iirc (I also have a ranked guest diff which contains this shape) The rule is used to avoid EXTREMELY overlapped sliders ( so-called "Burai Sliders" ). However, the slider has a clear path although it overlaps itself by approximately 45%. Then it should not be unranked imo.

Hope this helps :D
bossandy
osu! Alumni
1,665 posts
Joined May 2010
bossandy
I think this can prove why this slider wasn't allow
Here

An example
[HitObjects]
391,100,55182,6,2,B|384:92|384:92|400:161|440:96|416:76|416:76|408:68|408:68|376:64|364:64|336:104|376:116|376:116|416:96|416:96|416:84|392:96|392:96|376:68|376:68|372:84|340:96|368:88|368:88|328:88|388:164|403:152|456:185|431:291,1,584.999984502793,4|0,0:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:

The slider I made is a bit ugly ( but also like your slider xD ) , but I think it's something to prove , imo , It should be unrank , sorry for my bad view :(
69653863
1,818 posts
Joined January 2012
Topic Starter
69653863

bossandy wrote:

I think this can prove why this slider wasn't allow
Here

An example
[HitObjects]
391,100,55182,6,2,B|384:92|384:92|400:161|440:96|416:76|416:76|408:68|408:68|376:64|364:64|336:104|376:116|376:116|416:96|416:96|416:84|392:96|392:96|376:68|376:68|372:84|340:96|368:88|368:88|328:88|388:164|403:152|456:185|431:291,1,584.999984502793,4|0,0:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:

The slider I made is a bit ugly ( but also like your slider xD ) , but I think it's something to prove , imo , It should be unrank , sorry for my bad view :(
Huh? I somehow failed to understand the idea of your post.
bossandy
osu! Alumni
1,665 posts
Joined May 2010
bossandy
It is a slider like yours also , but the path on this slider is different

See this
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

p3n wrote:

This should be reranked because...
..it's completely playable, applying the rule on something that doesn't needs to be changed at all should just be left as it is. And if this is unranked because of that playable slider, and stuff that is completely unplayable is ranked, I really don't understand the reasoning behind it.
Sonnyc
7,753 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
Imo the slider path seems a little doubtful, but people may infer how it will slide if they are rational enough..
Leader
osu! Alumni
1,849 posts
Joined January 2011
Leader
This is totally playable since it doesn't really change the slider velocity, yet it makes you play as there's a hold effect, which totally fits the song.
I'm not a fan of 01:42:078 (1) -'s shape but its path is clearly understable and rankable, so I don't see why this should stay unranked in such status.
p3n
Global Moderator
947 posts
Joined June 2009
p3n

inverness wrote:



Huh? I somehow failed to understand the idea of your post.
Maybe you should try the object code provided with bossandy's post. The slider looks similar to your slider but goes completely nuts and is not predictable from looking at the slider alone. That is exactly why sliders like this are not allowed and why this map was unranked.



Just to inform you about what could happen:

You change the slider to make at least one slider border visible from slider head to slider ending - making it perfectly rankable.

OR

If at least 4 members of the BAT support the rank of your "flame slider" with proper individual reasoning (like Leader did) AND no one else disagrees with those reasons, you can keep them unaltered. This does not affect the few extremely ugly wiggle sliders. The ranking BAT will take responsibility for these sliders and they *could* cause you more trouble or even another unrank.


It would be a one-time exception under the current RC. The community, the mapping techniques, and the Ranking Criteria are constantly evolving. The BAT will always moderate and guide this process and specific rules and guidelines might change in the future like they did in the past. Until the details are worked out, sliders like this will remain unrankable.





Please refrain from discussing unrelated matters in this thread until the issue is resolved in one or the other way.
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
I fail to understand what you are trying to insinuate by using a clearly fucked up slider, and comparing it to what is in the map when they are two different things. You might as well say all sliders are unrankable since you can make a burai slider look the same as a normal one.

Nobody in their right mind is going to assume a slider actually looks like that.
cdpp
5 posts
Joined June 2014
cdpp
Looking through the responses, doesn't anyone think that the 'rage' difficulty's extremely reliant on sliders?

Feels rather excessive/dull through the initial playthrough, almost felt like the beatmap was a looping pattern.

Would adding more percussion-based notes (i.e timed to the double time hihats or ride cymbals) help liven the map up?
Kaguya Hourain
514 posts
Joined October 2012
Kaguya Hourain
First time I tried the Rage map I thought sliders were awesome and fun and very fine to play. Slider in question has NEVER given me trouble with the map, if that makes any difference to anyone here.
69653863
1,818 posts
Joined January 2012
Topic Starter
69653863
Lach's reply had already represented what I'm actually going to say. This slider shape is totally rational as most people would expect it to slide the way they thought (rotating counterclockwisely around the head and slides onto the tail). And why would I (or some other sane mappers) for example made this kind of slider the way bossandy's sample slider made? That's just fucked up, it's like trying to put traps and shit in a bad way (although technically, my slider and his slider has similarity in gameplay, where we don't even have to move our cursors while the sliderball is rotating/nutting, thanks to slider leniency).
-GN
Champion Above Champions
734 posts
Joined June 2011
-GN
I do not understand why this map has been unranked for almost two weeks because of a single slider type that the absolute majority in this thread agreeon being completely readable, fitting the song and easy to play in every way. No sane player would ever assume that the slider would spend a long amount of time going around in circles at the very top, they'd think it was going almost straight down towards the sliderend, and since the slider actually DOES do this, there's no reason to argue otherwise.
Garven
osu! Alumni
5,857 posts
Joined January 2010
Garven
I still wish you would at least use them in a consistent way instead of the current random placement. The map itself could use improving, even if you're steadfastly against fixing the shape of just those particular sliders.
Nwolf
2,604 posts
Joined September 2012
Nwolf
so and now nothing happens or what
Ayu
1,126 posts
Joined December 2011
Ayu
did we go back in time
Sonnyc
7,753 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
Posts got deleted?
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Nwolf wrote:

so and now nothing happens or what
Something will happen, final decisions needs to come.

Sonnyc wrote:

Posts got deleted?
Unneeded flame and unconstructive critic isn't wished and they are gone.
Lance
626 posts
Joined August 2010
Lance
This is still unranked?

I was just trying to point out that the rule is actually archaic and needed to be rethought. I understand the point of having strict rules, but shouldn't the final judgement call come down to common sense? This is really baffling :?

Also the whole 4 BATs thing seems a tad bit plucked out of the sky. Who decided on that?
Eni
1,437 posts
Joined May 2013
Eni
I love this mapset, all the diffs are great and the storyboard is nice~ top tier, those fades <3



Re-rank soon :)
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,844 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
U guys are overthinking this too much. in the end, it all comes down to one question; "Is it playable"

Just play it yourselves and see if you sliderbroke or not. Personally, i found it fine, wasn't confusing at all
Duckebab
7 posts
Joined June 2014
Duckebab
wewwww 8-)
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,812 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
I'm not an osu!-BAT, neither am I fully skilled player in this mode, which is why some points might be at some way wrong. But I would still like to say something about this topic.

  1. In my opinion we should give this a go, not only because this map-set has been unranked 3 weeks ago.
    I understand the purpose of the unrank, especially when we look into the future; preventing people to use this map as example to justify their "burai-sliders", which, if I'm honest, in this case really isn't a big problem at all. I didn't read yet that this is something considered as extrem case and I don't see it either as one. Beside that, I played the map now the very first time, and even for me it was pretty much clear where that slider is going(maybe because you notice for a really short amount of time in what direction it expands?). So at this point I would rather prefere to give the slider a go, instead of keeping it unranked because of similar cases which are possible in the future. Makes me come to the next point...
  2. I'm a Taiko mapper, and patterns are for us really important, especially how they work to the music. Thumb of rule is to see if the pattern sound(placement), look and plays well. In osu I guess, the sound isn't that important at all, but looking at the placement, the slider does fit well to the song's flow, considering its shape to it. Additional to this, playwise it isn't that tricky at all as I mentioned above. I can't explain it as good as some of you guys can do, but it looks pretty clear where this slider is actually going.
    About the look of the slider we can argue I guess. But in this case, it should be up to the mapper since it isn't anything that is absolutley considered as ugly or a no-go(that's why I think it's no problem for further mapping. If something really atrocious happens in the future, we can stop that really easily. Community does help in this matter sometimes as well). In this case, it's the mappers own fault if people rate the map bad because they dislike the slider. It will also scratch on the mappers image, but that's not something we should deal with.

    I can share concerns about a map as whole, but not because of one single slider(in this case two), while everything else seems to be okay. Asking mapper to take care of this next time helps in my opinion more as enforcing many things everytime.
  3. Beside the mapping way, I also want to mention the behavior of the mapper and the song itself. The mapper probably didn't response always in a nice or for other people logical way - in other words: beeing stubborn. But if you ask me, we have to look at the overall picture.
    Letting this unranked because of one single slider, prevents us of having more genres in a game which is ruled by TV Size maps or other similar genres.
    We do not have often such songs compared to anime themes, which is why I think it would be a waste letting it unranked. It is also a pitty for the players (AND TAIKO).

    Two BATs who approve this already: p/3257668 , p/3259450
  4. One last word from me:
    In case some BAT still say this must stay unranked(which I probably wouldn't understand with my current knowledge), I could add only one thing I would critizies about: The so called "burai-sliders" are placed on different stanzas which gives me a questionmark. 00:55:182 (1) - Here it's at the beginning of the kiai (first stanza) while 01:42:078 (1) - appears in the second one. What confuses me even more is the fact that at 01:06:216 (1) - no "burai"-slider" appears, even though it's the same sounding and a similar stanza constellation. Same applies to the part at 01:50:354.

    That would be the only reason for me, either to remove them or add at said timelines new "burai-sliders".

Pretty long post, huh? Sorry if anything I said might be totally wrong. After all, I'm rather a Taiko Mapper / Modder.
quiz-chan_DELETED
quiz-chan_DELETED
And the map hits graveyard.
Satella
155 posts
Joined September 2013
Satella
inb4 unranked forever :'(
Beige
Elite Mapper
2,191 posts
Joined February 2011
Beige
no Q_Q
69653863
1,818 posts
Joined January 2012
Topic Starter
69653863
Blank update to keep the map out of the graveyard.

Regarding unstated reasons from me why it should stay as it is, it's simply because I already stated it most of the times on people (including BATs and staffs) that questioned the slider rankability in the first place. It's basically a super simple reason, it's playable and readable to most people, and everything else such as minor technical and asthetic aspects reason follows. Really, it's that simple.

Also thanks to everyone else that helped pointing out the issues.
Love
osu! Alumni
1,267 posts
Joined August 2010
Love
Well, I'll provide an actual response instead of just a video quoting Leader.

Since the slider isn't how bossandy's theory slider is, the lane is actually not breaking outside of the actual circle that it makes. That is what it "could" be but not what it actually is. No player would hold it there with how smooth the actually goes in a circle. As for the direction, it's very clear due to the sharp edge here.

This was my first play of the map when it was, it was actually fairly simple and I've actually had more problems on the wiggle sliders in the middle after I cut the first part.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
So apparently this map was sent to die over "ambiguous" sliders.
Let's have a look at them, logically.
This post is assuming sliderstyle is default, not crescent style. The pictures in the post are using crescent style for more detail.

To start, I'm going to bring up a pattern you probably have seen before.

It's the slider loop.
Slider Loop

Slider loops in the past have caused concern due to the natural slider overlapping they have. The fear was that they could be designed to be misleading, like the picture below.
Fake Slider Loop

Many people loved loops, however, and it was visually clear when they were being used. Because of this, an exception was made and loops stayed a rankable pattern. Fake loops were deemed unrankable as they were misleading, not misleading because of their overlap, but misleading because they looked like real loops, something they were not.

Over time loops became very easy to spot, even when the loops were very small, so small that there was no hole in the center. They were still readable though as the bulge of slider implied a loop, as it always had.
Small Slider Loop

This effect is present even when said bulge is close to the startpoint.
Slider Loop at Start

Closer and closer, it was still obvious that the slider was going to make a loop.
Slider Loop at Start, Closer

The circular bulge implies the loop, and nothing else.
Slider Loop around Start

That is where Bonfire's slider comes from.
Bonfire's Slider Loop

Normally, ambiguity causes unreadability, but this is a slider loop. A slider loop implies a straightforward path as has been developed by so many slider loops before it.
Krfawy
1,374 posts
Joined March 2012
Krfawy
LOL I wonder I've never seen so many BATs in 1 thread.

Anyways I "love" when I can see them tweaking about rankability when something is more readable & rankable than an accurate 2014 style and most of ranked maps but I guess I'm too blonde to understand it. Just rank it instead of posting LOL2.
Maeglwn
Maeglwn
I'm not a BAT

but honestly this should just be reranked

the slider is unclear, but not unclear enough to warrant being unranked for long enough that it gets thrown back into the graveyard again
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