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Mouse user‘s ultimate weakness! Never a one to one mapping!

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Total Posts
27
Jawing
56 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
Jawing
Mouse acceleration. I have sure this has been discussed many times....although this time it is a completely different kind of acceleration.

First let me make it clear that it is possible to get rid of linear acceleration in X and Y (either negative or positive). You can turn off enhance cursor precision in windows and do a bunch of other stuff like using http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.ca/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html.

In the end it is impossible to get rid of angular acceleration bug. For example, if you put your mouse cursor in the center of your screen and close your eyes. Spin your mouse in place, either clockwise or counter-clockwise. By spinning clockwise, your mouse will move towards the bottom left after spinning around 100 times and the opposite for counter-clockwise.

Therefore mouse user can never be 100% accurate because it will never have a 1:1 mapping of the mouse pad to the computer screen.

Try and see for yourself ;)

Unlike mouse user. tablet user's tablet area have a 1:1 mapping of their computer screen.

Many of you should have noticed that most user who have achieved top ranks on Jumpy maps that are Insanely Jumpy are usually tablet users.

I hope, if any of you have a solution to solve this kind of acceleration is a saviour towards every mouse user!
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
Except it doesn't really matter all that much. Angular acceleration is completely negligible and isn't even used in gameplay. I don't know of anyone who has their screen mapped to their mousepad either, since you can lift and move the mouse without moving the cursor. Playing with mouse isn't about knowing where on the mousepad your mouse is, it's about how much of a movement to the next note you need to make.
Pacemaker
106 posts
Joined May 2012
Pacemaker
so tl;dr: Your mousepad doesn't work like a tablet.

Damn, that sure is the discovery of the year man!
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
tl;dr this has been discussed before and confirmed
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
i thought certain mice didn't do this, and certain ones did, depending on the quality.

either way... cool story bro. saved my life there.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Syboooo wrote:

Spin your mouse in place, either clockwise or counter-clockwise. By spinning clockwise, your mouse will move towards the bottom left after spinning around 100 times and the opposite for counter-clockwise.
Either my muscle memory compensates for this already or you just have a really bad mouse. :v
ct_warrior
29 posts
Joined August 2012
ct_warrior
I believe that the Minoix Naos 5000 doesn't have this problem. Ask kriers. :3
Soly
343 posts
Joined June 2011
Soly
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Last edited by Soly , edited 1 time in total.
Jawing
56 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
Jawing

MillhioreF wrote:

Except it doesn't really matter all that much. Angular acceleration is completely negligible and isn't even used in gameplay.
Then how would it be negligible if you've tried spinning your mouse in place...

MillhioreF wrote:

Playing with mouse isn't about knowing where on the mousepad your mouse is, it's about how much of a movement to the next note you need to make.
Your muscle memory is built upon a precise mapping of your cursor movement on your mouse pad. If your cursor hit a note a on a Jumpy map just barely on the edge...you brain will continue to think that it actually hit the note on the centre.

After you notice the slight difference, your mind will adjust your muscles to a newer position that fit the original mapping.
It takes time to adjust, and without adjusting you could miss your next note...

winber1 wrote:

i thought certain mice didn't do this, and certain ones did, depending on the quality.

either way... cool story bro. saved my life there.
Your mouse doesn't do this?


lolcubes wrote:

Syboooo wrote:

Spin your mouse in place, either clockwise or counter-clockwise. By spinning clockwise, your mouse will move towards the bottom left after spinning around 100 times and the opposite for counter-clockwise.
Either my muscle memory compensates for this already or you just have a really bad mouse. :v
Did you close your eyes while spinning? (which negates muscle memory) and I don't believe I have a bad mouse (kinzu v2)
Last edited by Jawing , edited 1 time in total.
blissfulyoshi
osu! Alumni
4,755 posts
Joined July 2008
blissfulyoshi
I don't know how you play, but notes are big enough that doing mouse jumps from muscle memory is fine. I am going to side with the group saying you have a bad mouse since there are still quite a few mouse users in the top 1000.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
Even if what you're saying is true, which I don't doubt, it doesn't make a significant enough difference to affect gameplay except maybe CS9 or CS10. Mouse position variance is always slightly inaccurate anyway because of human error, and any precision loss from angled acceleration is negligible compared to human accuracy variance. The only situation where this could feasibly be a big problem is if I created a robot to move the mouse for me.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Syboooo wrote:

Did you close your eyes while spinning? (which negates muscle memory) and I don't believe I have a bad mouse (kinzu v2)
I did. I didn't do 100 spins but I did like 40 or something, the cursor was still right where it was before. I spin really small circles though.
Moway
1,143 posts
Joined January 2012
Moway

Syboooo wrote:

lolcubes wrote:

Either my muscle memory compensates for this already or you just have a really bad mouse. :v
Did you close your eyes while spinning? (which negates muscle memory) and I don't believe I have a bad mouse (kinzu v2)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the Kinzu has unremovable mouse accleration.
Bweh
486 posts
Joined September 2012
Bweh
This thread makes it seem as if tablets have a significant and unsurpassed advantage over mouses. Which they don't.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
Simplest analogy to describe the problem that you think is technical error and not human error:
Draw a straight line with your mouse. Your hand moves in an arc.

Relative positioning is in essence the ultimate weakness, but the major component in this weakness is the "4th dimension" - TIME.

It is ONLY a problem when the user plays a map that goes on for too long without breaks and involves too much movement in this duration... and "too long" differs from person to person as you get better at subconsciously handling the relative positioning errors. But there is a limit, even for the best.

Discussed many times - already agreed upon - but very few maps (always top tier skill level) cause a problem.

And yes a lot of mice have sensors that cause random amounts of acceleration, in fact every mouse does this to some degree, even the g400 - though it is measured as low as 0.5% variance, which is negligible.

Krier's uses the Mionix Naos 5000 which uses the Avago ADNS 9500 laser sensor and has up to a 10% variance in acceleration caused by mouse firmware, but he plays fine with it. It is more about adaptation than anything else.

And I jump better with a mouse than I do with a tablet for some odd reason! Mesita and other mouse players express the same opinion.
Practice =/= Theory.
SteRRuM
678 posts
Joined October 2008
SteRRuM

RaneFire wrote:

Simplest analogy to describe the problem that you think is technical error and not human error:
Draw a straight line with your mouse. Your hand moves in an arc.

Relative positioning is in essence the ultimate weakness, but the major component in this weakness is the "4th dimension" - TIME.

It is ONLY a problem when the user plays a map that goes on for too long without breaks and involves too much movement in this duration... and "too long" differs from person to person as you get better at subconsciously handling the relative positioning errors. But there is a limit, even for the best.

Discussed many times - already agreed upon - but very few maps (always top tier skill level) cause a problem.

And yes a lot of mice have sensors that cause random amounts of acceleration, in fact every mouse does this to some degree, even the g400 - though it is measured as low as 0.5% variance, which is negligible.

Krier's uses the Mionix Naos 5000 which uses the Avago ADNS 9500 laser sensor and has up to a 10% variance in acceleration caused by mouse firmware, but he plays fine with it. It is more about adaptation than anything else.

And I jump better with a mouse than I do with a tablet for some odd reason! Mesita and other mouse players express the same opinion.
Practice =/= Theory.
So much true, tho this problem appears for me only if there's at least 3min long map without breaks and spinners, which happens very rarely
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
This often has been an issue for me for longer maps. Whenever I get a break, I always pause and make sure I re-position my mouse again.

EDIT:

SteRRuM wrote:

tho this problem appears for me only if there's at least 3min long map without breaks and spinners, which happens very rarely
Basically this
Jawing
56 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
Jawing
I believe what we have discussed so far. It clearly shows that tablet users aren't vulnerable to hardware errors. :(
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
I hate when people exaggerate the disadvantage of a mouse.

Tablets ARE vulnerable to a lot of errors, making such a statement clearly proves you do not own a tablet.

edit: When I bought a new cheap mouse, it didn't have drifting (although it progressively got worse over the next few months)
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
lets bring these awesome paint pictures back we had in the last thread about this
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