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i don't get the hate behind sotarks' style mapping

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31
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect
i'm not talking about uc/hailie visually messy style. i'm talking about sotarks' style. i don't get why people hate on his style so much. even if sotarks didn't map as much pp maps, i feel like people would still hate on him.

it's visually messy + wave sliders, but it's not like the messiest style out there. sotarks can apply flow + other concepts well, just like any other mapper could, so i don't get why some mappers have a strong dislike towards his mapping style. it is visually messy, but also visually appealing.

personally, visuals do matter to an extent, but they aren't the sole focus of a map. some mappers are caught up in visuals, and unless you're going for monstrata style, you don't have to focus on.
Shiyzo
783 posts
Joined April 2014
Shiyzo
ok
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect
ok
Asphiee
1,418 posts
Joined January 2020
Asphiee
uhh... its not really the hate, its about the pp.... people hate him because he maps for pp lmao XD

but those who hate him are the ones who's been sucking off pp with his maps tho, the ironyyy
Last edited by Asphiee , edited 1 time in total.
Zelzatter Zero
3,962 posts
Joined October 2016
Zelzatter Zero
I personally don't hate Sotarks style at all, the problem is how he constantly use his style over and over again with little to no concept behind it.

The opposite of that is fieryrage, who does the pretty good job in diversifying his style to maps imo.

also, this is not OT
Asphiee
1,418 posts
Joined January 2020
Asphiee

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

I personally don't hate Sotarks style at all, the problem is how he constantly use his style over and over again with little to no concept behind it.

The opposite of that is fieryrage, who does the pretty good job in diversifying his style to maps imo.

also, this is not OT
the concept yes
Uniform
281 posts
Joined July 2019
Uniform
some people (like me) think that sotarks style is really ugly. imo it doesn't even look like he tries to make his style look good sometimes. all he focuses on is movement. some of the sliders/patterns in his maps look like something i would find in the graveyard.
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect

Uniform wrote:

some people (like me) think that sotarks style is really ugly. imo it doesn't even look like he tries to make his style look good sometimes. all he focuses on is movement. some of the sliders/patterns in his maps look like something i would find in the graveyard.
hm i see. i do take inspiration from sotarks style, like slider movement and stuff, but i try to make it "nice" in a way. i do use messy overlaps, mainly because i can't get used to perfectly overlapping circles.

a lot of my mapping inspirations (sotarks,mao,tutuhaha) have visually messy styles, although it's different. mao focuses on unconventional gameplay, which is why their top diffs have mostly nm scores. tutuhaha is an old mapper who takes inspiration from modern mapping styles (a bit) and uses them in their maps. they focus on linear flow, from my knowledge. it's visually messy, but in the sense of gameplay, compared to sotarks, in which he has a visually messy style, but with clean gameplay. i think that visuals DO matter, but they aren't the sole focus of a map. that's the problem with some mappers. they have a mindset where visuals are the only thing that matters, and that's what browiec told me, but looking at it now, as long as you can account for that with concepts + flow + spacing emphasis, then it's good.
Last edited by Dialect , edited 1 time in total.
Uniform
281 posts
Joined July 2019
Uniform
visuals > everything else wdym. seriously though, not saying all messy maps are bad, but there is a fine line between messy and (movement is the only thing the mapper considers.) sotarks crosses that line, and while he does put some effort into his visuals (half-heartedly), still too messy for my liking. plus his maps are so so so farmy (i cant stand farm maps). all of these things make him one of my least favorite mappers. ( i <3 mao and tuhaha though )final note: please just take some time to make sure your maps look decent, it will certainly help you in the ranking process.
Last edited by Uniform , edited 4 times in total.
Zelzatter Zero
3,962 posts
Joined October 2016
Zelzatter Zero

Uniform wrote:

visuals > everything else wdym.
Please read your statement carefully. That is just eviqualent to saying Centipede is suitable for ranked section.

Also you have to consider what they're aiming to before judging their style. Sotarks maps "is like a mess" because most players aim for pp mainly don't care much about visual (You can even noticed that most people complaining about his style are mappers). The opposite will be tech mappers since they prioritize visual than playability.
Last edited by Zelzatter Zero , edited 2 times in total.
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

Also you have to consider what they're aiming to before judging their style. Sotarks maps mainly made for pp because most players aim for pp mainly don't care much about visual (You can even noticed that most people complaining his style are mappers). The opposite will be tech mappers since they prioritize visual than playability.
personally, as someone who barely plays the game, sotarks maps are rankable.

but i could never really do tech style. my style is too visually messy for me to try that out.
Chiru-kun
786 posts
Joined January 2018
Chiru-kun
on the times he does make pp maps, it feels heartless to some, maybe. because pp.

i love his fhana maps though.

look, some of his fhana maps and pp maps have carryover same styles. meaning, he also uses messy waves and quite standout jumps. regardless, i love his fhana maps. his pp maps are ok to me, not really a conflict. others have simply gotten of the usual scene of "hey heres a pp map" which is defined with that specific style. when he does other stuff, there are small details in his mapping which i take, even the mere feeling of something the same to pp maps but with a completely different vibe. that's all there is, i think.

only a certain player base might understand this but it reminds me of n-buna's conflict on music as an art and music as a living.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I honestly dont get why pp farm is justification for hating a map. It's the formula's fault and not the mapper's. Even though the mapper may have exploited the formula, I don't think restricting any techniques in mapping is right.
Last edited by abraker , edited 2 times in total.
Asphiee
1,418 posts
Joined January 2020
Asphiee

abraker wrote:

I honestly dont get why pp farm is justification for hating a map. It's the formula's fault and not the mapper's. Even though the mapper may have exploited the formula, I don't think restricting any techniques in mapping is right.
das a good one
DeletedUser_6709840
DeletedUser_6709840

abraker wrote:

I honestly dont get why pp farm is justification for hating a map. It's the formula's fault and not the mapper's. Even though the mapper may have exploited the formula, I don't think restricting any techniques in mapping is right.
Basically this.

Look, you can hate a style but gatekeeping styles and saying others HAVE to map something a specific way is a garbage mentality. It kills creativity and diversity in mapping.

On the otherhand, Sotarks and all other mappers are NOT obligated to diversify their style or techniques based on opinion. If they're comfortable with how their map plays, it's rankable, and they have a player-base, then they do not need to change anything. It's only up to mapper's motivation whether to diversify
lewski
1,253 posts
Joined September 2014
lewski
Personally, I don't really care about pp, it's the fact that he slaps the same map over every song that makes me not care about his maps. Lots of people do that, they're all in the same basket for me.
Uniform
281 posts
Joined July 2019
Uniform
I don't really care about pp maps, but if the only thing you consider when you map is how overweighted your map is, = bad map
Zelzatter Zero
3,962 posts
Joined October 2016
Zelzatter Zero

Uniform wrote:

I don't really care about pp maps, but if the only thing you consider when you map is how overweighted your map is, = bad map
So you're gonna say that Wizard's Tower and Tsukinami is bad because it gives more pp in HDDT? In fact, both maps' aesthetic are way better than Sotarks, and I really doubt that Reforms and Taeyang even made it for pp in the first place.

Just as abraker said, you shouldn't assume the map is bad because of the ammount of pp they make, this will kill the diversity of mapping scene.
Last edited by Zelzatter Zero , edited 2 times in total.
Chiru-kun
786 posts
Joined January 2018
Chiru-kun

abraker wrote:

I honestly dont get why pp farm is justification for hating a map. It's the formula's fault and not the mapper's. Even though the mapper may have exploited the formula, I don't think restricting any techniques in mapping is right.
its the hate on the phenomenon. its the association, the assumption on a person's mind that if this, then that.
Uniform
281 posts
Joined July 2019
Uniform

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

Uniform wrote:

I don't really care about pp maps, but if the only thing you consider when you map is how overweighted your map is, = bad map
So you're gonna say that Wizard's Tower and Tsukinami is bad because it gives more pp in HDDT? In fact, both maps' aesthetic are way better than Sotarks, and I really doubt that Reforms and Taeyang even made it for pp in the first place.

Just as abraker said, you shouldn't assume the map is bad because of the ammount of pp they make, this will kill the diversity of mapping scene.
no, wizard's tower and tsukunami aren't bad because they focus on other aspect other than pp. also, considering the mappers that made these maps, they were probably made for pp.

pp mapping isn't bad, per say, as long as the overweightedness isn't the only thing you focus on when mapping.
Last edited by Uniform , edited 1 time in total.
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