Would be very silly... But eh, I suppose there are people like that.
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Mouse only at the highest level of competition
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GoldenWolf wrote:
Mouse only at high level of competition is not impossible, it depends of your dedication
I know I'm going to sound like a terrible person for saying this, but I don't think that video illustrates an overcoming of the main problem mouse only players run into at higher levels of play, that being the level of control necessary when forced to alternate clicks due to speed while having to jump around (such as on a song like http://osu.ppy.sh/s/27712 as a random example). I'm not trying to say it's impossible, I would assume there are a few gifted people out there that have managed to do it, but I think the lack of numbers says something that can't be denied. Or perhaps I might come across as less offensive if I simply say that I don't think I have the pure talent necessary to reach that level even with cookiezi's dedication. Some of the songs in the world cup are better examples of songs that a mouse-only player might struggle with much more, and I still haven't found even one of the competitors in it that use only a mouse (still going through the list).
To Kitsunemimi: I never implied, nor intended to imply, that I feel as if I'm "better" for taking the mouse-only approach. I don't view others as taking the easy way out as they could simply enjoy that playstyle more. Nor is there anything wrong with choosing what works best, as much of the enjoyment even for me comes from the competitive side of it. It's not "cheating" to use a keyboard and I apologize if I somehow gave the impression that I think I'm more, as you say, "dignified" for taking a mouse-only approach. I do absolutely think that mouse only is harder, though that doesn't mean using a keyboard makes it easy. It would require a LOT of practice for me to get to the same level with a keyboard as I currently am with a mouse, but I am able to identify the innate advantages that using a keyboard would offer for control on the fast paced songs on DT when you have to alternate clicks on the mouse. I'm not trying to offend or condescend to anyone using a keyboard with these statements, I do not choose to play strictly with the mouse out of "pride" but rather out of preference. However, that does not mean that the competitive aspects do not make it a struggle for me to put my preference aside, for, as I said, much of my enjoyment comes from the competitive side as well.
I'm not the most tech savvy person, so perhaps there's an alternate way to do this, but I do not believe the options in Osu! allow this normally. There's probably some other way to do it, but I think they would have to at least jump through some hoops. That's not to say that some might not go through the trouble, but it also may not be possible.BRBP wrote:
Also, some people even change their keyboard hits to be registered as mouse clicks.
I wish kriers were here.
Mouse-only is arguably the hardest style to pick up, and sticking to that deserves praise of its own. However, it's going to be harder to keep up with everyone else because most people opt for every other method available. It's clearly easier to spin with a pen or to do 220 BPM streams with a keyboard; you'd have to practice harder than anyone else with your play style to overcome those hurdles. That's the obvious setback of choosing mouse-only. Anyway, to solve your dilemma: choose between preference or competition; stick with your mouse and play as you like, or change your style and adapt to whatever shortcomings a mouse-only player faces.
That's my take on it.
Mouse-only is arguably the hardest style to pick up, and sticking to that deserves praise of its own. However, it's going to be harder to keep up with everyone else because most people opt for every other method available. It's clearly easier to spin with a pen or to do 220 BPM streams with a keyboard; you'd have to practice harder than anyone else with your play style to overcome those hurdles. That's the obvious setback of choosing mouse-only. Anyway, to solve your dilemma: choose between preference or competition; stick with your mouse and play as you like, or change your style and adapt to whatever shortcomings a mouse-only player faces.
That's my take on it.
You already answered on your question, mouse only is indeed harder and more challenging than other 2-hands playstyles and you're pretty much limited using it. And that's why there're not too much mouse-only players on higher levels of competition. But it all depends what your goal is, what do you want to achieve playing this game. If you're having fun and enjoying "smaller scale competition" then why force yourself to change something? Another thing if you want to compete with real pros on the top. It's highly unlikely someone will ever FC something like 4D with mouse only, but there's still plenty of space to express yourself with this playstyle.
If you want an example check out Shizuru- scores or Kriers youtube channel.
If you want an example check out Shizuru- scores or Kriers youtube channel.
They could do that but I doubt anybody that's at a high level of skill would do that.XPJ38 wrote:
Why would they do that?BRBP wrote:
Also, some people even change their keyboard hits to be registered as mouse clicks.
Shizuru- is fastest mouse only player, and faster than many top keyboard players, and he is mouse only. There are several songs that he is either the only one to DT them, or one of the very few. Jumps aren't a problem for him either, as he has done stuff like airman, big black, ect without problem. He is a very dedicated player and works his ass off. You can be as good as you want to be. Limitations are only in your mind, unless you have a physical disability that actually prevents you from doing something.Layn wrote:
GoldenWolf wrote:
Mouse only at high level of competition is not impossible, it depends of your dedication
I know I'm going to sound like a terrible person for saying this, but I don't think that video illustrates an overcoming of the main problem mouse only players run into at higher levels of play, that being the level of control necessary when forced to alternate clicks due to speed while having to jump around (such as on a song like http://osu.ppy.sh/s/27712 as a random example). I'm not trying to say it's impossible, I would assume there are a few gifted people out there that have managed to do it, but I think the lack of numbers says something that can't be denied. Or perhaps I might come across as less offensive if I simply say that I don't think I have the pure talent necessary to reach that level even with cookiezi's dedication. Some of the songs in the world cup are better examples of songs that a mouse-only player might struggle with much more, and I still haven't found even one of the competitors in it that use only a mouse (still going through the list).
To Kitsunemimi: I never implied, nor intended to imply, that I feel as if I'm "better" for taking the mouse-only approach. I don't view others as taking the easy way out as they could simply enjoy that playstyle more. Nor is there anything wrong with choosing what works best, as much of the enjoyment even for me comes from the competitive side of it. It's not "cheating" to use a keyboard and I apologize if I somehow gave the impression that I think I'm more, as you say, "dignified" for taking a mouse-only approach. I do absolutely think that mouse only is harder, though that doesn't mean using a keyboard makes it easy. It would require a LOT of practice for me to get to the same level with a keyboard as I currently am with a mouse, but I am able to identify the innate advantages that using a keyboard would offer for control on the fast paced songs on DT when you have to alternate clicks on the mouse. I'm not trying to offend or condescend to anyone using a keyboard with these statements, I do not choose to play strictly with the mouse out of "pride" but rather out of preference. However, that does not mean that the competitive aspects do not make it a struggle for me to put my preference aside, for, as I said, much of my enjoyment comes from the competitive side as well.I'm not the most tech savvy person, so perhaps there's an alternate way to do this, but I do not believe the options in Osu! allow this normally. There's probably some other way to do it, but I think they would have to at least jump through some hoops. That's not to say that some might not go through the trouble, but it also may not be possible.BRBP wrote:
Also, some people even change their keyboard hits to be registered as mouse clicks.
I haven't seen him be one or few people to dt a map.
I must not be playing any of the cool maps.
I must not be playing any of the cool maps.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/25557buny wrote:
I haven't seen him be one or few people to dt a map.
I must not be playing any of the cool maps.
I'd say Uan has more dedication, by looking at his playcount (178'000+)Layn wrote:
Or perhaps I might come across as less offensive if I simply say that I don't think I have the pure talent necessary to reach that level even with cookiezi's dedication.
While talking about Shizuru-, he can do badass scores and even better than 95% of others players with other playstyles (#7 here)
I totally disagree with this. I spin clearly faster with mouse (450+) than with a pen (400+) and it seems to be the same for others people.Brian OA wrote:
It's clearly easier to spin with a pen
Mouse is the best spinning tool
Seconded. It's also easier to spin fast in big circles with a mouse (unless your tablet area is tiny, which has problems in itself)GoldenWolf wrote:
I totally disagree with this. I spin clearly faster with mouse (450+) than with a pen (400+) and it seems to be the same for others people.Brian OA wrote:
It's clearly easier to spin with a pen
Mouse is the best spinning tool
It's clearly easier to spin with a pen3rd to disagree. 470 ftw
About that high level mouse only blah blah.
You know what, there is always a limit. Even if you can move your body right, the mouse has its weight and surface that becomes slippery over using. It's just fkin impossible to do every hardcore map just like that with mouse generally (mouse only is omfg). You're pointing out 2 (TWO) players, who are or were good mouse only. They just got the talent, perfect settings, peripherials and dedication. One badass player doesn't mean that your input device doesn't matter, only hard work and shit. Shizu-chan is just that one pro who has all the factors mentioned above + he's Asian. There's a load of mouse only players who do their best yet it's a canyon-sized difference between the skill. He's simply the chosen one. It's like pointing at Usain Bolt and telling me - you can be faster, just practice!
And of course there're still maps Shizuru can't pass that tabletguys can. And it will stay like that forever.
Haha well put, AmaiHachimitsu. Those good few mouse-only players clearly do have exceptional talent, of which I am quite envious myself. Whereas there are far more keyboard players in the upper skill brackets.
It's quite funny he's korean though... no actually it's not, I'm sad.
Asians too OP, they need a nerf.
At high level of competition, I'd say it's possible... Cookiezi level? Well that's another Usain Bolt analogy, except with a tablet.
It's quite funny he's korean though... no actually it's not, I'm sad.
Asians too OP, they need a nerf.At high level of competition, I'd say it's possible... Cookiezi level? Well that's another Usain Bolt analogy, except with a tablet.
i like to play mouse only, and anyone who starts spectating me (its weird but happens) gets amazed for that. I, however, play with a very tiny mouse and my two last finglers (the ring one and the little one) are always on the middle when moving to the right, sometimes making me fail a jump. Another matter are streams, maps like Chipscape (http://osu.ppy.sh/s/27752) are just incredibly insane with mouse-only, but much much easier when using keyboard. The biggest problem is that your hand gets tired twice as fast when using mouse clicks, i almost got Carpal tunnel syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome) playing mythologias end (http://osu.ppy.sh/s/48979) and I DID NOT PASS IT. you need a lot more of practice using mouse only, and you reach a point in wich you need to practice streams and fast clicking a lot if you dont want to get tired fast.
I keep playing mouse only for several reasons:
-its more fun (to feel the beats and the movement on the same hand as a magical dance of power its overwhelming)
-im proud i am a mouse only player
-my USB keyboard sucks (keys have too much space below them) and im afraid that my laptop´s keyboard gets damaged if i hit it too hard
-i feel im getting each time better (without that, i would have changed to keyboard a long time ago)
so yeah, mouse only is harder but i just like to play like that. what i have tried is to use 1 key of the keyboard and one of the mouse forstreams. tha fus is still there but its kinda confusing.
rank is not a matter for me, if it were i would just play hard and slow insanes so i get more pp. I love to play Insane maps and i my conscience makes me feel bad if i use keyboard (like in Hatsune Miku - Hatsune Miku no Shoushitsu). if you are the same, then keep playing with mouse.
I keep playing mouse only for several reasons:
-its more fun (to feel the beats and the movement on the same hand as a magical dance of power its overwhelming)
-im proud i am a mouse only player
-my USB keyboard sucks (keys have too much space below them) and im afraid that my laptop´s keyboard gets damaged if i hit it too hard
-i feel im getting each time better (without that, i would have changed to keyboard a long time ago)
so yeah, mouse only is harder but i just like to play like that. what i have tried is to use 1 key of the keyboard and one of the mouse forstreams. tha fus is still there but its kinda confusing.
rank is not a matter for me, if it were i would just play hard and slow insanes so i get more pp. I love to play Insane maps and i my conscience makes me feel bad if i use keyboard (like in Hatsune Miku - Hatsune Miku no Shoushitsu). if you are the same, then keep playing with mouse.
Tablet + keyboard has been proven to be the best playing style. Pretty much every top player plays like that. You may be a top player by playing mouse only but chances are you gonna change styles before you reach that point.
You may be proud of being a mouse only player, since you still didn't change your play style to what's better and keep playing using a harder one, but still that doesn't mean you're better than what you really are. Meaning if rrtyui beats you on any score by 1k score by using tablet + keyboard and you did your score mouse only, using your playstyle as an excuse is wrong.
You may be proud of being a mouse only player, since you still didn't change your play style to what's better and keep playing using a harder one, but still that doesn't mean you're better than what you really are. Meaning if rrtyui beats you on any score by 1k score by using tablet + keyboard and you did your score mouse only, using your playstyle as an excuse is wrong.
Spinning 460+ with a mouse is easy if you know how to hyper tenseWishy wrote:
Tablet + keyboard has been proven to be the best playing style. Pretty much every top player plays like that. You may be a top player by playing mouse only but chances are you gonna change styles before you reach that point.
You may be proud of being a mouse only player, since you still didn't change your play style to what's better and keep playing using a harder one, but still that doesn't mean you're better than what you really are. Meaning if rrtyui beats you on any score by 1k score by using tablet + keyboard and you did your score mouse only, using your playstyle as an excuse is wrong.
spinners suk
meh, I'd play using 2 mice to brag like that.GoldenWolf wrote:
"Oh hey look I'm a mouse only pro player !!!".XPJ38 wrote:
Why would they do that?
Spinning is for most of the people is easier with mouse than a pen.
And circle size is the most challenging part of using mouse only. That's why Shizuru- has a lot of scores >CS5. I do admire his HDHR work though, but DT is nothing.
And circle size is the most challenging part of using mouse only. That's why Shizuru- has a lot of scores >CS5. I do admire his HDHR work though, but DT is nothing.
until here you had the chance to be smart. sadly you didn't use it.Soly wrote:
And this is why
seperated rankinglists would make it look like mouse players are something special. they are not.
also, it would just lead into trolls just pretending to play mouse by selecting mouse instead of tablet. people who play with both mouse and tablet would be unclear to rank. there are to many factors why this won't work.
the thought of someone being superior to somebody else because of playstyle has to stop. you are not suddenly a better player because you play with mouse instead of tablet. everybody plays with what he is most comfortable with, and seriously: if you really want to have a tablet, almost nobody here should be to poor to buy one. it's up to you if you want to invest money into it.
whatSoly wrote:
Just the fact that the way the game is now, discourages use of other input devices on a competitive level.
How about seeing it like that : It encourages people to try other way to play ?Soly wrote:
This speaks volumes to the community and discourages the use of other ways to play.
I don't understand your point of view, if people wants to try other playstyle and find it more fun than mouse, what's wrong with it ? Why considering mouse player "special" ?
And why do you think it's a problem ? There is no need to fix it because it's not a problem
Sure there are no mouse players around to play the hardest maps available, but let's face it, only 0,01% of all tablet players are capable of playing this crazy shit. For the remaining 99,99% of players, there remains a lot of stuff you can do with both peripherals.
Well there's always http://osu.ppy.sh/u/shizuru-kriers wrote:
Sure there are no mouse players around to play the hardest maps available, but let's face it, only 0,01% of all tablet players are capable of playing this crazy shit. For the remaining 99,99% of players, there remains a lot of stuff you can do with both peripherals.
I'd say the % of total mouse only users who play that shit is lower than the % of total kb players who play it, but that's because people who care enough to get that good will take any available options to get better, thus moving to keyboard.
SPOILER
As a fellow mouse-only player i understand your concern OP
First off, i can't play much a day but consider my ranking important.
It's only natural some would expect some recognition for choosing (arguably) the hardest play-style.
Being able to filter the score rankings by play-style would be a nice way to get this recognition, if not among the whole community then at least among fellow mouse-only players. But as has been said, there's no point in doing this as long as there's no failsafe way to determine someone's play-style for each play.
Saying play-style is a matter personal preference is a valid, but neutral argument.
And in fact this doesn't deny most players choose the easy way out and have an advantage.
There are a few mouse-only players who are exceptionally good, but they are just exceptions.
You guys are really giving me the feeling mouse-only was a dumb chose, which i hope it's not meant to be
First off, i can't play much a day but consider my ranking important.
It's only natural some would expect some recognition for choosing (arguably) the hardest play-style.
Being able to filter the score rankings by play-style would be a nice way to get this recognition, if not among the whole community then at least among fellow mouse-only players. But as has been said, there's no point in doing this as long as there's no failsafe way to determine someone's play-style for each play.
Saying play-style is a matter personal preference is a valid, but neutral argument.
And in fact this doesn't deny most players choose the easy way out and have an advantage.
There are a few mouse-only players who are exceptionally good, but they are just exceptions.
You guys are really giving me the feeling mouse-only was a dumb chose, which i hope it's not meant to be
TL/DR: Just as playing HR/DT/HD/FL is a handicap in exchange for a higher score multiplayer, playing mouse-only should be a handicap in exchange for some general recognition.
You get recognition yet you won't be better for playing a bad play style.
There is almost no reliable way of 100% knowing who is mouse only and who is not. Does it really matter in the end?
If you want to play competitively, you will use whatever means necessary to achieve a higher score and beat the person above you in ranks. If you want to play for fun, you will most likely play with whatever you find most fun with.
A person who asks for recognition for doing something different isn't worthy of it if you ask me. That only means he is an attention seeker.
If you want to play competitively, you will use whatever means necessary to achieve a higher score and beat the person above you in ranks. If you want to play for fun, you will most likely play with whatever you find most fun with.
Just because the sky is blue, you should use blue switches to achieve better scores. Right? Sorry but I don't find much sense there. :pyoyomster wrote:
Just as playing HR/DT/HD/FL is a handicap in exchange for a higher score multiplayer, playing mouse-only should be a handicap in exchange for some general recognition.
A person who asks for recognition for doing something different isn't worthy of it if you ask me. That only means he is an attention seeker.
Some Chinese players use a mouse (or maybe a click device that can't move the cursor) with the buttons made of mechanical keyboard switches.
He would definitely be an attention seeker if that something would be different and as easy as the other things, but is that also the case if it's harder to do than the other things? If you can prove that mouse-only is in no way harder than other play styles, i'll admit i was wrong about the need of recognition for this play style. Is it really so wrong to expect recognition for doing something that is harder to do?lolcubes wrote:
A person who asks for recognition for doing something different isn't worthy of it if you ask me. That only means he is an attention seeker.
it's attention seeking because you're going out of your way for the sole purpose of getting that attention
that can be said about anyone expecting extra attention for using different method
that can be said about anyone expecting extra attention for using different method
Ok, so recognition is only for highest ranking people and only for Osu! players in general regardless of play style.
And only if you're part of the pro's, you might get a little more respect as a mouse-only player, otherwise it's attention seeking.
I guess this is one reason why there's a relatively low amount of mouse-only at the highest level then.
Competitive people switch play style because doing something the hard way and getting no extra credit for it until you've reached the top of the ladder really sucks.
But in a setting like above it is to be expected, very normal and won't change.
I hope i got it now :p
And only if you're part of the pro's, you might get a little more respect as a mouse-only player, otherwise it's attention seeking.
I guess this is one reason why there's a relatively low amount of mouse-only at the highest level then.
Competitive people switch play style because doing something the hard way and getting no extra credit for it until you've reached the top of the ladder really sucks.
But in a setting like above it is to be expected, very normal and won't change.
I hope i got it now :p
players get recognition on how they perform and their achievements, not how they do it.
in the end the end result is all that matters
in the end the end result is all that matters
Playing with the wrong device should make people think you're wasting your time other than giving you extra credit for being good with a bad play style. Really if you're serious about this game and play mouse-only there is something wrong with you.
Only situation where I would respect some player for playing mouse-only would be after they reach the top and become so bored of it they decide to try something harder, other than that it's just attention-whoring.
Only situation where I would respect some player for playing mouse-only would be after they reach the top and become so bored of it they decide to try something harder, other than that it's just attention-whoring.
yeah sure, no one would play mouse only for fun, right ?Wishy wrote:
other than that it's just attention-whoring.
This better be a troll post.Wishy wrote:
Playing with the wrong device should make people think you're wasting your time other than giving you extra credit for being good with a bad play style. Really if you're serious about this game and play mouse-only there is something wrong with you.
Only situation where I would respect some player for playing mouse-only would be after they reach the top and become so bored of it they decide to try something harder, other than that it's just attention-whoring.
It's "attention-whoring" when you seek recognition. You don't do something for recognition, you just get recognition for something you do. (If that makes any sense, haha.)
it's wishy.GladiOol wrote:
This better be a troll post.Wishy wrote:
Playing with the wrong device should make people think you're wasting your time other than giving you extra credit for being good with a bad play style. Really if you're serious about this game and play mouse-only there is something wrong with you.
Only situation where I would respect some player for playing mouse-only would be after they reach the top and become so bored of it they decide to try something harder, other than that it's just attention-whoring.
it's probably not a troll.