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How would you define inverse patterns?

posted
Total Posts
10

Which of the 3 are inverse patterns

#1 is inverse
46
80.70%
#2 is inverse
6
10.53%
#3 is inverse
5
8.77%
Total votes: 57
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
abraker
So a common interpretation of inverse is where blank spaces are replaced with hold notes, and holds notes are replaced with blank spaces. That's fine and all, but I think thats kinda vague. Let me show why.

#1 - Most of you would say that this is definitely inverse

All releases are much smaller than holds here. It's impossible to argue this is not an inverse pattern.



#2 - But would a pattern like this be inverse as well?

Here no release is shorter than a hold. Arguably if the pattern is fast it plays like an LN stream, and if the pattern is slow it's just an LN heavy pattern.



#3 - What about this pattern?

Some players may say these inverse rolls, but honestly I think these would play like graced chords if anything.



I believe inverse has less to do with blanks being notes and notes being blanks, and more with how much the keys are spent being held vs released. Something like release duration is < 1/3 than the duration LN before and after it.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
Wouldn't this depend on the music?

If a note in the chart represents a note in the music, then it is a regular pattern. If notes in the music are instead represented by moments when the player has to release a key, it is an inverse pattern.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
abraker

Full Tablet wrote:

Wouldn't this depend on the music?

It's problematic to define patterns in relation to music instead of their arrangement because then you will need music for context to say whether something is a certain pattern. It's possible to say whether a pattern is a jack by looking at it. It's possible to say whether a pattern is a stream by looking at it. And so on. Why must inverse be different?

You are implying that it would be impossible to say whether a pattern is inverse without music but as of writing this a good portion of players agree that #1 is inverse without music as context.

Last edited by abraker , edited 3 times in total.
Lights
683 posts
Joined December 2016
Lights

abraker wrote:

Full Tablet wrote:

Wouldn't this depend on the music?

It's problematic to define patterns in relation to music instead of their arrangement because then you will need music for context to say whether something is a certain pattern. It's possible to say whether a pattern is a jack by looking at it. It's possible to say whether a pattern is a stream by looking at it. And so on. Why must inverse be different?

You are implying that it would be impossible to say whether a pattern is inverse without music but as of writing this a good portion of players agree that #1 is inverse without music as context.



Its different because inverse refers to a subtype of existing patterns.. inverse is usually just rice replaced with LN lifts. (almost) any given pattern can also exist as Inverse [pattern]. its more of a pattern modifier than its own pattern.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
abraker

Lights wrote:

Its different because inverse refers to a subtype of existing patterns.. inverse is usually just rice replaced with LN lifts. (almost) any given pattern can also exist as Inverse [pattern]. its more of a pattern modifier than its own pattern.

Ok let's run with that for a sec. Then that means inverse can be a map with just short LN notes that look like singles if the original map is mostly LN holds. That doesn't sound right, at least in relation to the specific type of patterning I am aiming to describe. It also doesn't make sense because if what you said is true, then I would expect more votes on #3.
Last edited by abraker , edited 3 times in total.
Ska
291 posts
Joined June 2017
Ska
I think inverse is just how the game looks rather than a pattern

when everything is just a LN wall with gaps it looks like the game is inversed, unlike just short lns
Lights
683 posts
Joined December 2016
Lights

abraker wrote:

It also doesn't make sense because if what you said is true, then I would expect more votes on #3.


I'm not particularly concerned if people agree with me or not.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
abraker
Well ok then let me ask a different question. How would you call pattern #1 in a way that sets it apart from patterns #2 and #3?
Lights
683 posts
Joined December 2016
Lights
1. inverse streams (low density)
2. LN jumpstream (with some semi complex releases)
3. inverse Rolls or LN rolls

the only one that i would reasonably not call inverse is #2 because its not very dense and has a lot of long releases
yetii
175 posts
Joined August 2015
yetii
We call a pattern inverse when the notes are quite literally inversed. The spacing between lns is consistent which creates a visual representation of inversed notes. When the spacing becomes too large, the "inverse" becomes less straightforward and we usually call it a ln pattern from that point onward. Note that this border isn't set in stone and is subjective depending who you ask. Variations in the definition of inverse also exist but the key feature has been explained. Out of the 3 examples 1 is inverse and 3 could technically be inverse too. (Most players will just call them rolls since the main focus lies on the layering and not the notetype)
Last edited by yetii , edited 1 time in total.
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