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Is osu pay to win?

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Topic Starter
Remilo
So me and my friend were arguing about weather osu is pay to win. Paying as in buying a tablet. My friend thinks once you buy a tablet you will significantly be better than a mouse player in the same amount of time. Are tablets pay to win?
click something
Your friend didn't explain his point, the tablet doesn't increase your ability in an instance you need time A LOT of time to feel the difference, and you might not even feel comfortable with it, is short term having a tablet won't make get an FC on the big black. Same thing with the mouse, just play the game bud and have fun

One more thing, the term "pay to win" applies only when the developers are gaining money through payment to a certain item in the game that would make you more powerful than most users in that game, as you can see no such item exist in osu! So no, it isn't a pay to win game.
Almost
That's like saying tennis is pay to win because you have to buy better quality rackets and shoes to play better. So no.
two old cat
Not at all. Arguably it can increase the ceiling of your skill, but it depends on the individual and won't increase your ability directly. Still gotta build muscle memory and consistency with it which takes time, and even then it might just never 'feel' right.
burakku
Tablets are cheaper than good mouses, so no.
Although you might have a problem with pen nibs, you could buy stainless steel ones from japan or throwaway plastic ones from amazon.
Gopal12
I havent bought anything for just osu. so ye depends on person.
Topic Starter
Remilo
Well his argument is that there's less drag than a mouse. He said "How come there are so many tablet players compared mouse players in the top 100". Then he asked him why I got a pen. That's when I started to agree with him more just a little because I did buy a pen because top players were using it and TO GET BETTER. I think its interesting cause in that sense, pen does offer more mobility than a mouse. After all, I was buying a tablet to get better which is by definition, paying to improve or win.

It would be really interesting to see a comparison side by side. Take 2 completely new players and put 1 of them on mouse and the 1 on pen *without any of them having prior experience to pen or mouse and osu* and compare their progression rates. Now I know that's kinda skewed since everyone has different progression rates, trust me I have 800hrs and im a very slow learner compared to my friend. Although in summary, the more I think about the reason I bought it and etc, I do believe it is kinda pay to win after you get used to the pen.
Endaris
Both devices are inherently different and come with advantages and disadvantages.
Tablet is the "mobility hack" device that enables you to pass "normal" maps at a medium SR (~4*) relatively early.
To FC those though you need to attain mobility control just the same as mouse does.
On mouse it will feel more difficult because you don't have that mobility hack, however the inherent stability of moving the mouse that lies down on a pad compared to having to constantly hold a pen can also serve as an advantage in some areas.

The fact that 10% of the Top ~1000 ranked osu! players play with mouse (a figure that stays stable through top 100 and top 50 as well) serves as proof that mouse is not inherently inferior to tablet.
Go check out the Top Mouse player list if you don't believe the numbers.

The true pay2win is playing with a Mablet.


Also, as others already mentioned, quality of equipment always matters and not only in the aim-device department, 240Hz monitor, a hardware system optimised for minimal audio latency and other things naturally influence how easily you can get better and all of these are much much cheaper than a tablet. As others already mentioned, tablets are really affordable and accessible these days compared to 10 years ago and not more expensive than a mouse with a perfect sensor which is something you'd want to get as a mouse player in the long run anyway.
Almost

Endaris wrote:

Both devices are inherently different and come with advantages and disadvantages.
Tablet is the "mobility hack" device that enables you to pass "normal" maps at a medium SR (~4*) relatively early.
To FC those though you need to attain mobility control just the same as mouse does.
On mouse it will feel more difficult because you don't have that mobility hack, however the inherent stability of moving the mouse that lies down on a pad compared to having to constantly hold a pen can also serve as an advantage in some areas.

The fact that 10% of the Top ~1000 ranked osu! players play with mouse (a figure that stays stable through top 100 and top 50 as well) serves as proof that mouse is not inherently inferior to tablet.
Go check out the Top Mouse player list if you don't believe the numbers.

Adding to the disadvantage of a tablet is the latency of the device. Tablets were designed with drawing in mind so they don't have efficient cabling.
Simon12

Almost wrote:

Adding to the disadvantage of a tablet is the latency of the device. Tablets were designed with drawing in mind so they don't have efficient cabling.


Whitecat uses a tablet, and he is arguably one of the fastest aimers in this game

I heard the Wacom 480 is the fastest tablet out there, so might be a problem with other tablets ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[LS]PositoniX
No... you don't need a pen to be a good osu player. FlyingTuna was a goddamn god even before switching to tablet.
Simon12

PositoniX wrote:

No... you don't need a pen to be a good osu player. FlyingTuna was a goddamn god even before switching to tablet.


Sure, he did great at short jump maps

but he didn't set scores on longer tech maps before he got the tablet

there is a reason for the fact that most players prefer the tablet

there is no mouse drift, simply put

not many mouse players are able to fc longer stuff consistently

I can not think of many mouse players that are able to fc long maps

Players like Epiphany, Andros, Doomsday, fancy lad, fieryrage, comes to mind.

I think around 10% of the top 10 000 globally ranked players are mouse players, you guys can check and see the mouse leaderboard list if you want.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EOWc7kf9TdyvT31VfzlY284udUNOrtz0uyRtQ2t4MHY/edit#gid=0

I don't think it's only personal preference, I think tablets are objectively easier to play with. Because you dont have to hold your tablet pen in any certain way to avoid "pen drift" as if it was a mouse. No. Absolute positioning makes that impossible. You only need to make sure the pen doesn't fall out of your fingers, which should be manageable.
Shinomiha
no just pay for a tablet or play with mouse for free
Boltiv
Its not really a pay to win game sure there are many players that say that you have to buy a tablet to get better but there are many great players that play qith a mouse so if you want to buy a tablet for youself you can do it !
LSoccer444
Disagree with these replies because most are biased and probably have tablets and want to defend themselves, but having a tablet, for me, did actually increase my skill RIGHT AWAY, so yes it is
Lights

LSoccer444 wrote:

Disagree with these replies because most are biased and probably have tablets and want to defend themselves, but having a tablet, for me, did actually increase my skill RIGHT AWAY, so yes it is
if it increased your skill right away, then you werent very good to begin with.
Zelzatter Zero

LSoccer444 wrote:

Disagree with these replies because most are biased and probably have tablets and want to defend themselves, but having a tablet, for me, did actually increase my skill RIGHT AWAY, so yes it is
no it's not. You're just don't play the right way.

Tablet is just aim better because of the absolute mapping unlike the mouse, but at the end, everything is still up to your preference. You can play with mouse if it's comfortable for you, and although it's few there are still top mouse players out there.

After all, this game is free-to-win and it will still be.
qwt
Meet FGsky he is no pay to win
[LS]PositoniX

LSoccer444 wrote:

Disagree with these replies because most are biased and probably have tablets and want to defend themselves, but having a tablet, for me, did actually increase my skill RIGHT AWAY, so yes it is
you have a playcount of 50 so saying that your play improved after switching to tablet isnt very scientific or accurate

i used to have a tablet, but it broke recently and now i play std with mouse. while im not good enough in standard to have a say in whether or not mouse/tablet is pay to win, i will say that using a pen grants an immediate boost in aim, but not reading is a skillset that would have to be mastered over time. mouse requires you to polish out the aiming aspect, but eventually you can match the skill of a pen player. besides, i know plenty of players who have gone far and wide with just a mouse, like fgsky, azr8, mouseeasy and many more (click here to see some of osu's best mouse players). in short, a tablet might cause you to have a jumpstart, but your rate of improvement isnt necessarily going to benefit.
abraker
pay-to-win generally implies you have to keep throwing money at the game if you want to win. There are two issues with applying that to osu!:

  1. Once you have the tablet, keyboard, etc you don't need to pay anymore than you had
  2. osu! doesn't really have an endgame, no point at which you can win
But lets run with the idea that buying equipment is pay-to-win, and that winning is being able to FC a map.

Ranked maps generally have to pass the ranking criteria, which has requirements in place that force maps to offer an equal opportunity for all players to FC. It has been shown before that mouse players can get to the top, not just tablet players. Same story with membrane vs mech keyboards. So ranked is definitely not pay-to-win if we go by that.

but...

Higher mania keymodes are in murky territory in regards to this since those generally require n-key rollover keyboards. Ranking criteria prohibits maps where you need to press more than 6 keys at once as a result, but these maps do exist in the loved section. Kinda similiar can be said about Tag4 maps. You would need a touch screen device capable of registering 4 fingers, which while a lot of laptops may have, most PCs don't.

So ranked maps are definitely not pay-to-win in any sense, but I dunno if same can be said about the loved section.
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