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osu! World Cup #3 (Concluded - Korea wins)

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Cyclohexane
just a little input over stream and commentating

I'm not about to do anything special or study any map or any of that bullshit. This isn't professional. If it were, you wouldn't see me commentating. I'm fine with you not liking the streams, and I'm also fine with you not watching the streams either.

I don't see what's preventing both teams from contacting the ref/tourney manager to create a room, getting in the multi room early and start practicing then until we start the stream.
XGeneral2000

Mr Color wrote:

I'm not about to do anything special or study any map or any of that bullshit. This isn't professional. If it were, you wouldn't see me commentating. I'm fine with you not liking the streams, and I'm also fine with you not watching the streams either.
While this is hardly professional, I don't really see the issue with taking a half hour and watching Autoplay play each map once just so you get a feel for them :/ You don't need to know it inside and out, just perhaps where some harder patterns are, and if it's an accuracy/jump/stream map. I mean, you're already volunteering time to commentate. Why not do a little preliminary research and make the experience better?

Also, this "if you don't like this tournament, you can shut up and go home" attitude is really coming off as unprofessional. This isn't just you, but from a lot of the staff over the last hundred pages. A lot of the criticisms have been unfounded/hostile, to be sure, but even polite concerns have been bluntly shrugged off and even attacked/threatened by the staff. I know you guys are human, and this is probably pretty stressful, but as people who chose to assume responsibility for something this big, you have an obligation to remain professional and rational at all times. This is true about any management/leadership position in life. Even if someone treats you unreasonably, you need to deal with it without resorting to the cold shoulder/iron authority. Even if you are truly considering everyone's input and making decisions accordingly, you're not giving off that impression, and I think a lot of the frustration from the players/viewers in this thread are coming from this impression that you are blatantly/rudely ignoring them in favor of your own judgement, and your own judgement only. Again, not picking on anyone in particular, but rather directed towards the staff in general.

Still, thank you for running the tournament. The stream is also a huge plus, and even if there are issues with it, at least we have one this year.
Makar

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Also, this "if you don't like this tournament, you can shut up and go home" attitude is really coming off as unprofessional. This isn't just you, but from a lot of the staff over the last hundred pages. A lot of the criticisms have been unfounded/hostile, to be sure, but even polite concerns have been bluntly shrugged off and even attacked/threatened by the staff. I know you guys are human, and this is probably pretty stressful, but as people who chose to assume responsibility for something this big, you have an obligation to remain professional and rational at all times. This is true about any management/leadership position in life. Even if someone treats you unreasonably, you need to deal with it without resorting to the cold shoulder/iron authority. Even if you are truly considering everyone's input and making decisions accordingly, you're not giving off that impression, and I think a lot of the frustration from the players/viewers in this thread are coming from this impression that you are blatantly/rudely ignoring them in favor of your own judgement, and your own judgement only. Again, not picking on anyone in particular, but rather directed towards the staff in general.

Still, thank you for running the tournament. The stream is also a huge plus, and even if there are issues with it, at least we have one this year.
Finally somebody else notices, lol.

Actually this is probably the best post in this thread so far.
Cyclohexane
I, kriers or cubes generally know the layout of the maps and what makes them hard or easy - we actually mention that in the streams
Valkyrie Dimension's high speed + speed-up beginning section
no pain, no game's overall tricky patterns + stream of stacks and sliders
45nen no Yukizakura's traps in Hidden
The low OD in Kyun Kyun Tamaran Inaba-Tan
The irregular rhythm in Shining Wizard
and so on and so forth. We're not professional and we're far from perfect, but anybody who's watched the streams thoroughly knows that we actually are knowledgeable about the map picks.

Also THANK YOU XGeneral2000 for the constructive criticism, even if, as stated above, in our case it's kinda moot
Metro

Mr Color wrote:

I, kriers or cubes generally know the layout of the maps and what makes them hard or easy - we actually mention that in the streams
Valkyrie Dimension's high speed + speed-up beginning section
no pain, no game's overall tricky patterns + stream of stacks and sliders
45nen no Yukizakura's traps in Hidden
The low OD in Kyun Kyun Tamaran Inaba-Tan
The irregular rhythm in Shining Wizard
and so on and so forth. We're not professional and we're far from perfect, but anybody who's watched the streams thoroughly knows that we actually are knowledgeable about the map picks.

Also THANK YOU XGeneral2000 for the constructive criticism, even if, as stated above, in our case it's kinda moot
He's talking about ztrot, Zallius and peppy's commentary.
Cyclohexane
ztrot usually knows what he's talking about too and generally doesn't mention maps anyway

Zallius and ppy barely ever speak
Metro

Mr Color wrote:

ztrot usually knows what he's talking about too and generally doesn't mention maps anyway

Zallius and ppy barely ever speak
They commentated some matches that were very early in the morning and they didn't even know the maps. Just watch the vods.
Cyclohexane
That must've happened very rarely since this week there was only 1 match I wasn't here for - Korea vs Uruguay and 2 matches I wasn't really active on
Thatgooey
I have also been brainstorming today about doing something like map previews for the next round. I think I will work this week on making some play through videos of the maps to give people an idea of what to expect, and the things that I encounter and feel while playing the maps (going over the tricky spots to look out for, difficult patterns, map stats, ect.). I am to the point where I am very familiar with enough maps, to where I can easily identify them by name/sound/pattern, whatever and know exactly what the map is. I think it would be pretty cool, and I should have the time to do it. As a matter of fact, I'll go ahead and start on it today and see what I can come up with. I am a good enough player I think to have credible feedback on the difficulty of a map. I've gotten pretty into osu! lately, and I think this could be something cool I could give back to the community. I'll post an update later today.

I would still be interested in doing commentary as well, and I have experience with it from other games. I enjoy doing it, so why not. Maybe I am not very known yet, but that is okay. If anything, I will record the stream and review the replay for fun.
Vish024
I think having one or two commentators who have knowledge about the maps is enough. Peppy and Zallius aren't really commentating, they're just hanging there to ensure that things go smoothly. I don't think we need 32 commentators from all 32 nations who can all give expert analysis on the beatmaps throughout the games, one or two is enough.
XGeneral2000
Yeah, regarding the commentating/knowing the maps, I think a lot of the concerns arose from the early stages (the first day or so). I remember watching some of the first matches and there wasn't much commentary during play (and I remember at one point there was confusion as to how osu's letter ranking system worked, something I would hope any skilled player would know). I'm terrible with voices, though, so I don't know who was doing what. I watched some of the more recent matches, though (like the ones just this last weekend), and the commentary was significantly more entertaining. I picked up the comments about the HD traps in 45nen, the Shining Wizard irregular meter, etc. That was really nice.

Also, I'd like to point out that I find it absolutely hilarious that every time someone mentions a player has an FC or SS, they break it. :)
kriers
sometimes we might get situations where not all commentators are available. For instance me and lolcubes stayed up late to help ztrot commentating and ended up so tired we lost out on all but the final match the next day. We certainly have gotten more used to our roles, though. I will keep trying to comment about specific details about the maps from my experience of playing them, since I am still participating in the tournament ^^
Cyclohexane

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Also, I'd like to point out that I find it absolutely hilarious that every time someone mentions a player has an FC or SS, they break it. :)
A staple of this tournament
Aqo
Have you guys ever watched RTS commentary or FG commentary? Learn from them please~

(this is serious advice to commentators. This can make it a bit more fun for you in your roles too)


replay commentary on tourney finals. commentating as if watching it live first time


live commentary on USA NA finals. best example of those 3. very hype commentating while following the game's key events
one commentator was kinda biased towards the NA player tho (steve h) since he's from NA himself.


(5 seconds audio delay. can be fixed by opening two youtubes and watching muted video on one... etc. you're smart enough to figure this out)
the commentator was told to make this commentary as outrageous as possible. stream had over 10k views. serious drama between the players.
some parts are nsfw (vocally, not visually)
Cyclohexane
Thank you for being massively idiotic and linking commentaries to games that aren't osu!.
Aqo
commentating on games works the same for every single game

you talk about the players
you hype the crowd up (yes, this counts for livestream crowd too) during key events
you talk about the matches

do it right
don't just sit quietly and talk about how you're drinking cola
(not meaning to offend anybody, I know it's hard and that you're new to this)

the commentary wasn't bad either imo, most of what I saw was already good. could be better tho. always room for improvement :b
PhiLL A
actually those are pretty good videos as some of those commentators were great, such as the ones on the SC:BW video. Some other commentators I would recommend watching and think are pretty good are TobiWan Kenobi who commentates DotA 2 and Tastosis (Tasteless and Artosis) who commentate SC2.
Makar

Aqo wrote:

do it right
don't just sit quietly and talk about how you're drinking cola
(not meaning to offend anybody, I know it's hard and that you're new to this)
Stuff like this shouldn't happen anymore. Peppy got on to Mara's ass for doing so already.
Cyclohexane
"you talk about the players
you hype the crowd up (yes, this counts for livestream crowd too) during key events
you talk about the matches"

yes, cause clearly we didn't do that


General notification to people: if you have complaints, then that's great and all, but make sure they're actually founded.
lolcubes
Those kind of commentaries are usually done with all people in the same room, and rarely happens that someone talks over someone else. There are exceptions but those are already considered professional commentators and they do it over voice comm or something if they cannot be in the studio (and they usually are).
Not to mention they actually watch the stuff on their PC in real time, where we have delay of around 10 seconds at least, as someone already mentioned.

Those 2 problems are usually the cause of most of our bad parts, in addition that there is a huge disorganization happening in the background (which is why I think this new rule was implemented) where we don't even get notified about a map pick or a player swap (though recently this has been okay but only because several people are doing their best in the background without anyone even noticing).
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