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Taiko General Discussion thread
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Topic Starter
rubytic, don't finger me thanks OAO
My only way to play taiko_Gezo_ wrote:
rubytic, don't finger me thanks OAO
Me not good at acc or even I can't do well taiko diff
stream is the only way to do(finger hurts ouch)
Topic Starter
I have talked to a few people that are a bit outside this mode, concerning FL. A lot of people want it gone, some don't. I myself thought, after quite reworks, about disabling it for a few weeks (One month is better) and thus making this mod unranked.
Of course, disabling it will not affect existing scores. It will just reject scores sent within that time.
I would need some opinions. (inb4 shouted at)
Of course, disabling it will not affect existing scores. It will just reject scores sent within that time.
I would need some opinions. (inb4 shouted at)
a bit NSFW
rubytic i don't want you to destroy my ~cough~
FL is a stupid mod anyway. It doesn't require any real skill either. The only people that can use it are people that DS or memorize songs
Yeah these are the contradictory points everybody always mention. I personally don't find FL plays to be particularly impressive, but those who do, they bring forward that what requires skill is entirely subjective, which I completely agree with. Albeit grinding a map until you've memorized it wont necessarily improve your playing overall, it is not in any way not a deserved multiplier. To even be able to memorize map is a skill and requires no less practice than getting better in general, and as it's not an issue of significance I say leave it be and let those who want to do it go ahead and waste their time doing it.Kuro wrote:
It doesn't require any real skill either. The only people that can use it are people that DS or memorize songs.
All they gain from it is one single map specific score for all of that effort put into it. It's not even remotely an issue as somebody who's supposedly better can rack up plenty of HD/HR/DT scores whilst said FL player is still working on memorizing that one map.
Topic Starter
Kuro wrote:
The only people that can use it are people that DS or memorize songs
(on skype)Pheon wrote:
implying memorizing songs doesn't require skill
I really agree with boat (and Pheon) on that one, since FL scores, when legit, can take a huge load of time : It took _LRJ_ and me 2~3 days of intense farming to memorize the integrality of Darri's GANGNAM STYLE for a little bonus and play it HD+FL. I am 99% certain that HD+DT scores, if really accurate, can blow that up in less than 20 minutes. I'm against my own idea, if I had it it is because it is heartbreaking to see how things are going with that mod now. Let's say that at least 90% of the scores submitted with that mod are not legit anymore...
Totally worth it.boat wrote:
All they gain from it is one single map specific score for all of that effort put into it. It's not even remotely an issue as somebody who's supposedly better can rack up plenty of HD/HR/DT scores whilst said FL player is still working on memorizing that one map.
I've been thinking about how FL in taiko can't be compared to FL in standard, and what would happen if it got weighted down to 1.06x just like HR/HD, to act as somebody pointed out in kyou-kun's thread as a bonus to the mods that actually increase difficulty. It would still benefit those who memorize maps, just not give a ridiculous bonus.
Want to beat a DT+HR SS? do it with DT+HR+FL. Equal difficulty - the vision, but +1.06
Want to beat a DT+HR SS? do it with DT+HR+FL. Equal difficulty - the vision, but +1.06
"They spend all their time on one map when you can grind with DT+HR/HD. It requires about 5-10x more plays. The bonus should be less than a sightreadable mod."boat wrote:
It would still benefit those who memorize maps, just not give a ridiculous bonus.
I could spend a bunch of lines on why this is a shitty idea but to keep it short, FL is really neglected in taiko, not a reason in making it less rewarding than it is, like seriously HDFL doesn't deserve to be just slightly above the lines of DT.boat wrote:
I've been thinking about how FL in taiko can't be compared to FL in standard, and what would happen if it got weighted down to 1.06x just like HR/HD, to act as somebody pointed out in kyou-kun's thread as a bonus to the mods that actually increase difficulty. It would still benefit those who memorize maps, just not give a ridiculous bonus.
Want to beat a DT+HR SS? do it with DT+HR+FL. Equal difficulty - the vision, but +1.06
Doesn't really bother me personally, I don't even use more than one mod at a time .<.
But better that then having it completely disabled, no? Although I don't even see how it's particularly bad as a supplementary mod, just like HD. Maybe weighted to something in between rather than half.
But better that then having it completely disabled, no? Although I don't even see how it's particularly bad as a supplementary mod, just like HD. Maybe weighted to something in between rather than half.
Topic Starter
Most of you know the root of this, and don't forget it would be a temporary disable. I don't ask for a change either.
I'd like to see some FL scores from people who say it requires no skill. FL is underused on taiko diffs because well, the reaction time would be ridiculous at high BPMs but it doesn't mean it's not worth playing it. We all know one player who plays FL and is confirmed for legit who can relate more than anyone here that FL does require skill as well as patience. If you're not patient, then don't play FL.
Stay calm and civilized, by the way. Else, I'll have to call some higher powers. (They're watching youuuu)
I'd like to see some FL scores from people who say it requires no skill. FL is underused on taiko diffs because well, the reaction time would be ridiculous at high BPMs but it doesn't mean it's not worth playing it. We all know one player who plays FL and is confirmed for legit who can relate more than anyone here that FL does require skill as well as patience. If you're not patient, then don't play FL.
Stay calm and civilized, by the way. Else, I'll have to call some higher powers. (They're watching youuuu)
For me, FL is difficult. I don't try to memorize (well I do get a general feel before I play) and rely on reaction time, which is impossible for me at high BPMs. Not everyone can memorize maps well so it's hard for others, that's why it's not used as much as HR+DT, HR+HD, or DT+HD.
Memorizing maps (for me) takes a real long time.
It would be fun to see people that underestimate the difficulty of FL play an insane map or one with a high AR and try to do good on it with FL on, saying that it doesn't require skill. Memorizing is a skill which not everyone is good at.
Memorizing maps (for me) takes a real long time.
It would be fun to see people that underestimate the difficulty of FL play an insane map or one with a high AR and try to do good on it with FL on, saying that it doesn't require skill. Memorizing is a skill which not everyone is good at.
I wouldn't mind if hidden and flashlight would completely lose their score multiplier. Hardrock and Doubletime are the only mods that actually increase the map“s difficulty, and only using them should be rewarded. I do have respect for legit HD/FL players, but after all these mods can easily be mastered with enough memorization. Therefore they will never show perfectly how experienced a player is since it's mostly a matter of time.
But well, that's just my opinion. HR and DT are the only 'real' mods for me.
But well, that's just my opinion. HR and DT are the only 'real' mods for me.
Topic Starter
Don't forget that on some cases, HD is far more difficult than HR. Coupled with DT, for example, it's a beast. Alone at slow songs, good luck.
I dont think people underestimate the difficulty. It's just on a different scale of difficulty compared to other mods, at the same time it is personal opinion too. There has to be someone out there who can just sightread FL and finds it easy, people are different. "Skill" is just a silly subject because people are good at certain things and find them respectable. Its all matter of opinion, what YOU find impressive and skillful. Personally, memorization doesnt reflect on your taiko skills, it just means you have good memory. I take Pheon's score on that silly song I can't remember the name of, that map is pretty damn hard and he FC'd with hdfl. I find the fact he got an FC more respectable than the mod, because he actually has the playing level to FC. All the memorization is phycological. Same goes for any mod really. Dt, you can play a map fast, cool. Can you perform well? Hr, ok the scroll is a little faster and the acc is a bit strict, cool. Can you perform well? Etc etc.
Just how I see it though. :p
Just how I see it though. :p
Same deal on many maps/mods. DT can just aswell be easier if you're accurate enough (even on OD7, a 24ms hitwindow is pretty reasonable and about the same as if you would have played it with hr), HD can be a free multiplier on OD8+ in comparison to HR._Gezo_ wrote:
Don't forget that on some cases, HD is far more difficult than HR. Coupled with DT, for example, it's a beast. Alone at slow songs, good luck.
Ironically enough, the only mod that doesn't really depend on any other variables seems to be FL.
MMzz wrote:
I take Pheon's score on that silly song I can't remember the name of, that map is pretty damn hard and he FC'd with hdfl. I find the fact he got an FC more respectable than the mod, because he actually has the playing level to FC
On a sidenote, just a regular fc would've taken like 4x less plays.
I didn't feel like reading everything because there's too much
but imo memorizing maps (while still a skill) isn't particularly a taiko skill. actually reading the notes as they come in that tiny window and not panicking is definitely better but the amount of maps where this is actually possible is so ridiculous makes it maybe not even worth it. all of this is assuming there's no cheating going on of course, who would even think of doing such a thing
i feel the same way about super fast things. if you can do a straight don pattern at 350 bpm then that's great but that doesn't mean you're good at taiko, you'd be just as fast playing any other game. doing some crazy pattern at 200 is more impressive to me, but i can't do eithersowtfyouguys
but imo memorizing maps (while still a skill) isn't particularly a taiko skill. actually reading the notes as they come in that tiny window and not panicking is definitely better but the amount of maps where this is actually possible is so ridiculous makes it maybe not even worth it. all of this is assuming there's no cheating going on of course, who would even think of doing such a thing
i feel the same way about super fast things. if you can do a straight don pattern at 350 bpm then that's great but that doesn't mean you're good at taiko, you'd be just as fast playing any other game. doing some crazy pattern at 200 is more impressive to me, but i can't do eithersowtfyouguys
Or, you know, all of you could stop discussing this and understand that osu!Taiko will never be real Taiko
cue in the incoming qq wahwah
cue in the incoming qq wahwah
IIRC peppy never intended osu!taiko to be a perfect copy of the original taiko's mechanics,so there's that.
Though you can still phrase that a bit more nicely Zek,it won't hurt anyone
It's not in any way a matter of replicating the original. I do believe that although I went into the topic of weighting the mods in general, the actual topic is the issue of cheating.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you mitten.MMzz wrote:
I dont think people underestimate the difficulty. It's just on a different scale of difficulty compared to other mods, at the same time it is personal opinion too. There has to be someone out there who can just sightread FL and finds it easy, people are different. "Skill" is just a silly subject because people are good at certain things and find them respectable. Its all matter of opinion, what YOU find impressive and skillful. Personally, memorization doesnt reflect on your taiko skills, it just means you have good memory. I take Pheon's score on that silly song I can't remember the name of, that map is pretty damn hard and he FC'd with hdfl. I find the fact he got an FC more respectable than the mod, because he actually has the playing level to FC. All the memorization is phycological. Same goes for any mod really. Dt, you can play a map fast, cool. Can you perform well? Hr, ok the scroll is a little faster and the acc is a bit strict, cool. Can you perform well? Etc etc.
Just how I see it though. :p
I'm all for temporarily disabling FL but honestly, I don't think that is the issue. Why can't peppy just alter FL so that it is respectably easier like how he fixed HR+HD (maybe fix the score-multiplier rating too to better reflect mod difficulties)? I just don't find FL possible on anything over maybe 140bpm for me, so it's a pointless mod.
I think most players don't FL more because of that same reason. Why grind 1 map for 2-3 days for 1 score when you can play many maps for many scores/variety of songs/etc. The difficulty of conventional use of the mod makes it impractical to normal players.
nvm go on
Most rhythmgames have a 100% transparent mod. There will always be oddballs which enjoy memorizing maps, those kind of people which enjoy showing off and love the thrill of working hard for a score. Why take that away?Dirty Sanchez wrote:
I think most players don't FL more because of that same reason. Why grind 1 map for 2-3 days for 1 score when you can play many maps for many scores/variety of songs/etc. The difficulty of conventional use of the mod makes it impractical to normal players.
To me also FL is little bit weird to say it
I know I'm not deserve to say that "FL so bad!" Cuz half of my #1 are made by FL
My acc skill bad to play HR or DT and I still have to practice HD
And taiko is memorizimg only D and K not like standard and ctb
So I agree that too many FL record probably doubtable to everybody
(Unless you play like Ritsuen or something easy pattern song it's probably doubtable 'DS')
I know I'm not deserve to say that "FL so bad!" Cuz half of my #1 are made by FL
My acc skill bad to play HR or DT and I still have to practice HD
And taiko is memorizimg only D and K not like standard and ctb
So I agree that too many FL record probably doubtable to everybody
(Unless you play like Ritsuen or something easy pattern song it's probably doubtable 'DS')
This isn't about deleting FL altogether. It's not like we'd be taking that away. The topic is whether or not to make it a (temporarily or otherwise) unranked mod.Pheon wrote:
Most rhythmgames have a 100% transparent mod. There will always be oddballs which enjoy memorizing maps, those kind of people which enjoy showing off and love the thrill of working hard for a score. Why take that away?Dirty Sanchez wrote:
I think most players don't FL more because of that same reason. Why grind 1 map for 2-3 days for 1 score when you can play many maps for many scores/variety of songs/etc. The difficulty of conventional use of the mod makes it impractical to normal players.
That doesn't mean removing the FL mod for players who enjoy it. It means removing the score multiplier (or at least lowering it) as a way to compensate for the high amount of cheated/hacked FL-variant scores.
And I'm not even going that far. I don't feel FL needs deleted at all, just improved upon to be more usable conventionally for taiko, and not just standard.
FL is evil indeed.
but, killing the FL score using DT+HD is so fun
but, killing the FL score using DT+HD is so fun
lol agreedTKSalt wrote:
but, killing the FL score using DT+HD is so fun
on a side note
WOOOOOOO!!!
WOOOOOOO!!!
inb4Kuro wrote:
lol agreedTKSalt wrote:
but, killing the FL score using DT+HD is so fun
/me escapes
I just keep getting better and better.
I am getting better with Hidden.
Also wtf is up with my sudden rank drop the last week? I was close to being above 1200 then I stooped down below 1300 .-.
It hurt my feelings
Inactivity causes your rank to drop, more significantly at lower ranks. You're not the only one playing, you know. People accumulate more PP than you and pass you on the global scoreboard, and as such you drop down. Note that they're called Performance points and measure performance, not necessarily "skill". If you want to gain ranks you're required to perform more and better in comparison to other players.
Get higher up and you'll both drop and rise less.
Get higher up and you'll both drop and rise less.
Hm I guess. I just found it weird it was specifically last week where I dropped a lot. o:boat wrote:
Inactivity causes your rank to drop, more significantly at lower ranks. You're not the only one playing, you know. People accumulate more PP than you and pass you on the global scoreboard, and as such you drop down. Note that they're called Performance points and measure performance, not necessarily "skill". If you want to gain ranks you're required to perform more and better in comparison to other players.
Get higher up and you'll both drop and rise less.
Topic Starter
I dropped a lot too. because hackers
More like Flashlight Pointsboat wrote:
Inactivity causes your rank to drop, more significantly at lower ranks. You're not the only one playing, you know. People accumulate more PP than you and pass you on the global scoreboard, and as such you drop down. Note that they're called Performance points and measure performance, not necessarily "skill". If you want to gain ranks you're required to perform more and better in comparison to other players.
Get higher up and you'll both drop and rise less.
More like HR every diff in every mapset points.
Topic Starter
nope, more like HD+FL #1 points