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osu! standard: Sliders are too easy to get 300s

posted
Total Posts
53

Are osu! standard sliders too easy to get 300s?

Yes
102
36.56%
No
177
63.44%
Total votes: 279
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JAKACHAN
684 posts
Joined March 2011
JAKACHAN

buny wrote:

I wouldn't say sliders in Talent Shredder are easy 300s
Also in mania you have a clear visual of when the slider ends, whereas in standard there's a lot maps that use sliders that would take a few retries to time


Sliders are easy but I don't have a problem with it.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

JAKANYAN wrote:

buny wrote:

I wouldn't say sliders in Talent Shredder are easy 300s
Also in mania you have a clear visual of when the slider ends, whereas in standard there's a lot maps that use sliders that would take a few retries to time


Sliders are easy but I don't have a problem with it.
you got me
JAKACHAN
684 posts
Joined March 2011
JAKACHAN
Once you really get used to them even things like Big Black start to feel like nothing. I had a few runs where I failed near the end (Not the slider parts) where I had a top 20-30 ranking and I haven't even played it that much.
Last edited by JAKACHAN , edited 1 time in total.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/58520 free 300s on sliders

although it's true that getting 300s on sliders is twice easier than on circles, part of the reason for this is not just their more lenient OD but also that the mapping habits in osu map sliders in "half speed" compared to circles. if sliders are mapped at the same tempo ticks as circles they're hard >;,;<
it's also a trend in maps today to have an sv lower than ds, which makes sliders easier as well. if the sv in a map is higher than the ds on it you might find yourself getting a few 100s on slider ends at first
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
osu!stream has stricter judgement on sliders. Bringing it back to osu! would be unfair since it would make older plays easier than newer ones.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
There are too many beginner players to consider any part of osu too easy. I would be against changing the sliders, as I find slider filled maps very enjoyable. I appreciate the extra leeway they provide.

Besides less 300s equate to less fun to some people. I don't really find any enjoyment to playing Mania, because of the awkward feeling the game has and the increased demand on difficulty applied to such an awkward control scheme. It's like taiko only far worse.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
I still find them way to forgiving in terms of timing other than that I have no problem with the ring or amount of time it give you if you slip out a bit but the starting note the hit bulk of the slider head should be as strict as a hitcircle imo.
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami

mm201 wrote:

osu!stream has stricter judgement on sliders. Bringing it back to osu! would be unfair since it would make older plays easier than newer ones.
And yet osz2 doesn't allow for deleting backgrounds ;)

#totallyrelevant
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

Kyou-kun wrote:

mm201 wrote:

osu!stream has stricter judgement on sliders. Bringing it back to osu! would be unfair since it would make older plays easier than newer ones.
And yet osz2 doesn't allow for deleting backgrounds ;)

#totallyrelevant
and yet people still think black bg helps more than 90% dim. Honestly, there isn't a difference. The only annoying thing is playing the song through once to be able to remove skin, lower dim more, etc.
Last edited by winber1 , edited 1 time in total.
D33d
1,697 posts
Joined April 2011
D33d
What do backgrounds have to do with this? They're an integral part of the map's presentation and not everybody chooses to remove them--not to mention that one isn't really supposed to remove them. Making sliders more strict for everybody would mean that new plays would score lower than old ones across the board. That sounds like an unfair imposition to me.
WASSHOI
56 posts
Joined July 2010
WASSHOI

winber1 wrote:

and yet people still think black bg helps more than 90% dim. Honestly, there isn't a difference. The only annoying thing is playing the song through once to be able to remove skin, lower dim more, etc.
I like dim as it is, but I do have to admit some backgrounds are really too obnoxious even at 90% dim. They tend to be the bright ones with white backgrounds and such. Not as much of a difference as people like to shout about, but definitely a harder contrast for the eyes to read.

Of course, not all maps are like this. I usually don't have problems with 90% dim, but some maps I just get an itching to change the background.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

winber1 wrote:

Kyou-kun wrote:

And yet osz2 doesn't allow for deleting backgrounds ;)

#totallyrelevant
and yet people still think black bg helps more than 90% dim. Honestly, there isn't a difference. The only annoying thing is playing the song through once to be able to remove skin, lower dim more, etc.
Take in mind that it is preference.
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami
No matter how you spin it, not giving future players an option that past players had to get good scores is unfair.
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa

Kyou-kun wrote:

No matter how you spin it, not giving future players an option that past players had to get good scores is unfair.
QFT

I can't disagree with you much longer if you keep saying smart stuff

damn it
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Slider 300s are too easy to get, yes. If I had the change to change them, they would be timing-dependent, as they are in osu!stream.
RBRat3
osu!painter
762 posts
Joined April 2010
RBRat3
I wouldn't mind seeing it calculated on how accurately you follow the slider within its follow circle.

Get enough new implementations to constitute a legitimate mass score reset :P
pw384
2,286 posts
Joined January 2012
pw384
what's the meaning of the title... i don't get that..
Andy Chen_old
Andy Chen_old
Scarlet Rose, Talent Shredder, etc

Sliders are suffering.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

RBRat3 wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing it calculated on how accurately you follow the slider within its follow circle.
More like, if each slidertick was interpreted like a circle (accuracy-window-wise), since that's how you actually need to play them.
Arnold0
1,675 posts
Joined February 2012
Arnold0
Too many people like the game like this, and this may make the game harder and make a mass "bad new feature" rage quit (Making slider like that = getting 50/100 & combo break on each sliders = rage quit)
And in the DS games sliders are like that so why change ?

I think the game is already hard to play so I don't get the point of people who whant to make it harder. Or maybe add a new mode which make sliders like this for a little score multiplier like 1.06x so guys who like may use it, and guys who don't like don't use it and all people is happy.
LoGo
133 posts
Joined March 2011
LoGo

Arnold0 wrote:

Too many people like the game like this, and this may make the game harder and make a mass "bad new feature" rage quit (Making slider like that = getting 50/100 & combo break on each sliders = rage quit)
And in the DS games sliders are like that so why change ?

I think the game is already hard to play so I don't get the point of people who whant to make it harder. Or maybe add a new mode which make sliders like this for a little score multiplier like 1.06x so guys who like may use it, and guys who don't like don't use it and all people is happy.
Problem is not in the hardness but in already set scores, what you recommend to do with them? remove?...
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
Make osu seasons (for ranking. like every single other game with online rankings has) >.>
and then you can apply new game-changing features for new seasons that would have new, reset, scoreboards of their own, while old season scoreboards stay available for viewing for legacy.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Lets not get into osu! seasons again. It's not worth changing the game drastically to make slider's harder to hit. IMO there's no really important reason to even change how osu standard plays at all. The sliders weren't considered broken a year ago, why should we call them broken today. IMO slider's being more lenient was intended behaviour and many maps were created based on this behaviour and it's not worth the effort to create separate environments for older maps just so a change in intended behaviour can take place.

Give me one good reason why sliders are a problem currently.
Last edited by TheVileOne , edited 1 time in total.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
"Seasons" are already implemented in the form of decaying PP.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp

Aqo wrote:

Make osu seasons (for ranking. like every single other game with online rankings has) >.>
and then you can apply new game-changing features for new seasons that would have new, reset, scoreboards of their own, while old season scoreboards stay available for viewing for legacy.
wouldn't that make replays either expire or extremely complicated and bulky
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

awp wrote:

wouldn't that make replays either expire or extremely complicated and bulky
just add a header/flag var for patch version inside the replay file, the same way many constantly-updating games today do for replays; for example Starcraft 2.
The game would retain code to open replays for every patch version the game had; upon opening a replay, it would check the header indicating which patch version the play was made on and use that code to re-play it. Replays made before the header was added would just remain headerless, and the game would interpret the lack of a header on those as the oldest game version.

It's as simple as if~else, or a switch list with gotos if you want. This would allow osu to progress into a more modern game over time instead of getting stuck with issues that remained from past design such as spinner drain or so on.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
I don't get it why is this such a big deal anyway. There are a lot of ways to apply sliders and big spacing sliders (usually short ones too) could be harder to hit accurately than they were planned. There are already maps which already require insane physical requirements to hit the objects, aside the timing.
I don't think changing this now is a good move either, the game has been released 5 years ago and been working nicely ever since, and it's still possible to map things which are really hard to 100% even without this change, and even on lower OD.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
Sliders are technically ok the way they are now but you have to admit they're kinda like a free mash/relax segment in maps compared to circles. A many-slider map is very easy to SS compared to a many-circle map..
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
I am not saying that they aren't easy currently, I would say they are, but that's their charm. Ofcourse there are maps which offer you a free SS because they are packed with 1/2 sliders or whatever, but not every map is like that, and frankly I didn't run into many of those either.
There are maps which have more sliders than circles and are ridiculously hard to SS, where this change would make them (unnecessarily) even harder.
Emaal
Emaal

Aqo wrote:

Sliders are technically ok the way they are now but you have to admit they're kinda like a free mash/relax segment in maps compared to circles. A many-slider map is very easy to SS compared to a many-circle map..
big black is easy SS yes.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Emaal wrote:

big black is easy SS yes.
yes lets just ignore the fact that half of the map is a 180bpm stream with spacing bigger than freedom dive in the latter half
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
osu! is completely fine the way it is right now
Emaal
Emaal

Aqo wrote:

Emaal wrote:

big black is easy SS yes.
yes lets just ignore the fact that half of the map is a 180bpm stream with spacing bigger than freedom dive in the latter half
half? basically you mean the last 8 seconds right.
and why care, it has sliders, easy SS.

thelewa wrote:

osu! is completely fine the way it is right now
yes.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue
making sliders harder would make sliderstreams even more obnoxious as they are right now. especially 1/8-sliderstreams like in those early djpop-maps.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
I wasn't really thinking of big black, but that's also one of the examples, although a bit extreme.
I was thinking about any maps with long deathstreams. Usually sliders are placed to alleviate the tension a bit and reduce the difficulty of the said deathstream (most commonly repeaters, but there are methods which use regular sliders as well), and this change would ignore that fact and would create a difficulty imbalance within the map. Atleast in my opinion.

thelewa wrote:

osu! is completely fine the way it is right now
Also I am with this.
Tanzklaue
1,151 posts
Joined December 2010
Tanzklaue

lolcubes wrote:

I wasn't really thinking of big black, but that's also one of the examples, although a bit extreme.
I was thinking about any maps with long deathstreams. Usually sliders are placed to alleviate the tension a bit and reduce the difficulty of the said deathstream (most commonly repeaters, but there are methods which use regular sliders as well), and this change would ignore that fact and would create a difficulty imbalance within the map. Atleast in my opinion.
yeah, ascension to heaven or DF-maps would be (even more) impossible staminawise without the current slidermechanic.

thelewa wrote:

osu! is completely fine the way it is right now
lewa speaks the truth, as always.
Emaal
Emaal

lolcubes wrote:

I wasn't really thinking of big black, but that's also one of the examples, although a bit extreme.
I was thinking about any maps with long deathstreams. Usually sliders are placed to alleviate the tension a bit and reduce the difficulty of the said deathstream (most commonly repeaters, but there are methods which use regular sliders as well), and this change would ignore that fact and would create a difficulty imbalance within the map. Atleast in my opinion.
extreme or not, he was talking about every map that there is. he didn't specify. but yeah.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
How about add a slider-OD setting and let mappers pick slider OD the same way you can pick circle OD right now to fit every new map a mapper designs based on what he sees fit? This leaves old maps unchanged and opens new possibilities for future maps
Haldowan
6 posts
Joined December 2013
Haldowan
From a new player's point of view.

I don't think sliders are so easy. This is my 5th of play and I improved a bunch since the 1st. However as I tried to perfect my mechanics, by playing easy maps, I was "stopped" by Xhroria (Easy, 3 stars). I got 299x instead 300x (full combo) 3 times in a row without understanding why. Since I got S with +95% accuracy on first try I thought : "What the hell can't I FC this song ?"

The truth is I didn't know I was missing the end of sliders. In certain patterns I held too shortly, because I never focused on this aspect. Some reasons why I was missing :
* short transitions, leaving too fast
* returning sliders, leaving too fast
* joined sliders with different lengths : reading |--->|<---| instead of |----><--|
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

Haldowan wrote:

From a new player's point of view.

I don't think sliders are so easy. This is my 5th of play and I improved a bunch since the 1st. However as I tried to perfect my mechanics, by playing easy maps, I was "stopped" by Xhroria (Easy, 3 stars). I got 299x instead 300x (full combo) 3 times in a row without understanding why. Since I got S with +95% accuracy on first try I thought : "What the hell can't I FC this song ?"

The truth is I didn't know I was missing the end of sliders. In certain patterns I held too shortly, because I never focused on this aspect. Some reasons why I was missing :
* short transitions, leaving too fast
* returning sliders, leaving too fast
* joined sliders with different lengths : reading |--->|<---| instead of |----><--|
You can just keep holding sliders until you get the 300 instead of thinking about when you have to release the slider (and jump to the next note when the slider is over), you only have to get the timing right for starting the slider (and even then, you only not get a 300 if you are WAY off in timing).
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