Patatitta wrote:
Winnyace wrote:
Before I begin, I'm going to say I'm biased here, since I use Linux almost full time. I do use Windows 11 from time to time because I'm lazy.
Patatitta wrote:
and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows
Ubuntu is based on Debian, so any solution that works on Debian has a 99% chance of working on Ubuntu as well. Even on a different distro, the chance of something working on your used distro is 80% I would say. Distros don't matter. Very few actually change something significant under the hood and all use the Linux kernel, with the same set of packages, so solutions are interchangeable between distros. This, however, requires time to learn, which brings me to the next paragraph that you wrote that interests me.
Patatitta wrote:
and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows
I will tackle in different points, even though you put it all in one paragraph.
Windows's primary user base is individuals who quite literally open up a web browser and do all of their work within one. It's now masked by making applications of such services available, but at the heart of them are nothing more than web services, apps that you can interact with and use from within a browser. Every single modern browser, from Firefox to Microsoft Edge is available on Linux fully. It is my believe that many people very likely will never notice that the OSes have changed if you don't tell them and make Linux look like Windows, which is possible. Linux's primary user base is programmers, but there are a lot of other people using it too, most notably gamers. The user base is more accustomed to computers, however. That's the only difference.
UI and UX are subjective. LibreOffice can be made to use an UI similar to Microsoft Office if you really wanted. It's right in the app too. There also exists a web version of Microsoft Office that, I think, does everything most people would need out of Word, Excel, etc. I'm biased here because I use it, but most apps on Linux actually have a good UI, besides creative applications, though even Adobe doesn't have the most user-friendly UIs for their creative suites.
Tutorials for Linux always show the terminal way of doing it, alongside the GUI way if there is a program that automates things. Why? Because it's easier for the writer of the tutorial to actually help you with a terminal command than it is give you 20 steps to do something with a GUI. I can understand that the terminal is intimidating, but at this point, I honestly heard this point so much that I believe it to be a stupid justification for not even trying to understand it a bit. The terminal provides the easiest and fastest way of performing an action on entire computer. True, it is often cryptic and requires you learn a bit of how a command works, but it isn't, at all, someone with average intelligence and a bit of time can't do. Google here is very handy. Tutorials often explain the commands, if not bit by bit, at least overall. There are also websites that automatically show you what the command does.Yes, I agree that it isn't the greatest experience and it does require a bit of your time to do a bit of research, but calling it hard is a bit of stretch too.
Patatitta wrote:
as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster
It very heavily depends on your hardware. For games, Wine's biggest use case, on AMD, the performance between games very slightly above Windows in some titles. It is within margin of error. You very likely won't notice it on a mid to high end system. On a low end system, yes, the story changes.
There's also the fact that the work can be entirely done on Linux too. I've done my high school project assignments on Linux and then presented on a Windows laptop without an issue. From C++ programs to PowerPoint presentations. If the work in question can be done in any software of your choosing, you can easily do it on Linux 99% of the time. It's only a matter of familiarity with the tools available on Linux as compared to Windows.
Patatitta wrote:
if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows
It is impossible now for Linux to get unified. It doesn't need to be because Linux is already the industry standard for servers and embedded cases where an OS needs to be used. It isn't an industry standard for desktop usage. There are efforts done to make it so developers won't need to accommodate for so many variations and just release once and forget about it. It will take time, because only recently have people actually tried to make the Linux desktop a really cool experience. In my opinion, the experience is good. It will take a bit of learn how some things work, but you needed to time to learn how Windows worked too, didn't you?
just to make clear, I HAVE used linux, I have used linux for years in fact. I know how to use the terminal, shit, I did almost everything with the linux terminal, however, that doesn't mean that a terminal is better. GUI is always way more intuitive, the most if you're doing things that you're not the most used to
it's true that debian and ubuntu and stuff at the end of the ady it's just linux, however, the way that linux is presented and some very small steps do change, so if I wanted to watch a video tutorial on how to fix something, it's just better for it to just so happen to be from your exact version of your OS, which is very common for windows but not so much common with linux most of the time.
I'm mainly talking about my perspective here, so while a lot of people can just use firefox for everything, I personally cant, I need to use photoshop, and gimp just does not cut it. I need to clone my hard drive, but I don't know how to do it, the GUI that there is a lot worse than the one windows has, and the video tutorials are worse than if it was in windows
the GUI, while it's true that for example adobe's UI suck, it's more common to at least be some effort and in fact, an UI, for example, for specific tasks, there are programs that do require you to use the terminal in linux. It's a reason of why people for example may want to use windows server, even if it has a worse performance than a linux one, it's just easier to use, and while yeah, full terminal, no UI, no background processes will make the program run faster and better, there is a human element here, and I think it's in a lot of cases sacrificing that performance for ease of use. And even if you know how to use the terminal in general, there will ALWAYS be scenarios where you must do something new, and it's 90% of the time easier to do something new in GUI than pure terminal
+ I do just think the average windows UI look better than the linux UI, but this is just personal preference IG
about the wine stuff, I guess it's just my pc build that really struggles with translation I guess, I did see worse performance on linux than on windows.
about the last thing, I know that linux cant get unified, I in fact did mention that it was not going to happen, however, I think it's a fact that it's harder to learn linux than to learn windows, windows was designed for people that haven't even touched a computer in their life to be able to work completely fine, however linux is made for tech-savy people, so that means that the skill floor is higher in this case
I haven't made the case that the terminal is more intuitive, unless I choose the wrong words that implied that. I don't think it is intuitive, especially for a beginner user, but calling it hard is, in my eyes an over-exaggeration You both state that you have used Linux for years, yet you still don't know how to clone a disk drive that's literally a command you can find with a simply find by googling how to do it? To me, it just completely invalidates what you said about your experience in the OS.
I do get your point behind it, however. There are things that are annoyingly difficult to do in Linux compared to Windows. It's all a matter of preference, like how you like Windows's UI compared to... I suppose GNOME, since that's the most popular desktop environment for Linux, and I do understand that some people just prefer Windows. I just don't like when people bring the most stupid justifications for it. Photoshop vs. GIMP, for example: Some people like Photoshop, some like GIMP. Both piece of software work differently and comparing them is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Everyone has a preference and that's not only more than fine, it is a perfect justification for not liking Linux.
Linux, in my opinion, is made for two extremes of people: the complete newbie, since distros like Linux Mint really make using the computer for a complete newbie more secure and in my opinion better than on Windows, and seasoned veteran. Online, especially in the circles I run around, people are smack in the middle of these two extremes, so for them, using Linux is a challenge since they're used to Windows, most likely. Ultimately, both OSes have advantages and disadvantages and it's a matter of choice and of use case.
Zelzatter Zero wrote:
wait last i checked the rumor turned out to be false. the fuck?
I think? I kinda recently learnt that they
may go in that direction. I doubt myself they would actually go to a subscription model, but I thought it was an interesting topic.
clayton wrote:
of course topic about specifically windows ends up getting instantly derailed into talking about linux
The internet for you.
So the above image has always been my signature.