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Make Approach Rate function for user definable option

posted
Total Posts
391

Do you support user-definable AR in ranked play?

Yes
96
50.79%
Yes, with a negative multiplier
40
21.16%
No
53
28.04%
Total votes: 189
Polling ended
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +2,757
dvorak_old
294 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
dvorak_old
Since everyone has their own unique best AR for themselves, is there any point to keep AR on mappers side?
Readability Problem? Map is Art? Everyone have their own thought and eye/ability for such kind of game.

I want to know many opinions from mapper/players side :D

-----------------------------------------

表題-アプローチレートをユーザー側で調整できるオプションにしない？

十人十色というように、大体の人は自分に一番いいアプローチレート=AR（わっかが閉じる速度）がありますが
それをMapperサイドに置いておく意味ってなんだろう？
見やすさの問題？ 譜面は芸術かな？　誰でも自分の目や能力にあったARが有るし自分の意見もあるよね。

マッパーとプレイヤー両方からの意見、なるべく多く聞きたいので日本語でもいいので意見があれば書いてください。
もちろん反対意見も求む、というより反対意見の方が大事。

-----------------------------------------
每個人都有自己能夠讀的最適AR,是否該讓mapper握有AR的控制權?
讀譜的問題或是map本身的藝術感問題?每個人都有自己的一套想法吧?

我希望能得到mapper/player們的各方意見

-----------------------------------------

각자 자신에게 알맞는 AR이 따로 존재하기 때문에 꼭 매퍼가 AR을 정하지 않아도 된다고 생각합니다. / 가독성? 맵의 예술성? 이들의 기준은 개개인에 따라 모두 다르다고 생각됩니다. / 매퍼 그리고 플레이어 모두의 입장에서 다양한 의견을 들어보고 싶습니다 :D

(thanks KRZY)

------------------------------------------

หัวเรื่อง : ทำให้ฝ่ายผู้เล่นปรับความเร็วของ วงแหวน AR ได้ดีมั้ย ?
แต่ละท่านก็มีความถนัดไม่ตรงกัน และแต่ละคนก็มีความเร็ว AR ที่ตัวเองถนัด
แต่มัเหตผลอะไรที่ต้องวางระบบตั้งไว้ที่ฝั่งคนทำ MAP อย่างเดียว ?
เพื่อความชอบ ? เพื่อดูเป็นผลงานศิลปะของคนทำ ? แต่ว่าแต่ละคนก็มีความเร็วที่ตัวเองถนัดใช่มั้ยล่ะ ?

(thanks S i R i R u)
Ever 14
147 posts
Joined September 2010
Ever 14
It's a really interesting idea.

Some players always say AR9 to hard for them, but on the other hand I find AR9 is much easier than AR7 or AR8 for me.

It will allow me play more maps with AR9 if I can choose it myself.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: #3
4,845 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
This is actually quitee an interesting idea...although would players be able to choose their own AR even with DT or HR?
dvorak_old
294 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
dvorak_old
Maybe not, there should be mapper's default AR and HR will based on that = static one.

AR change enable for no option only is solution?
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Interesting idea, but horrible in retrospect.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Approach circle speed is open to such a possibility, but the advanced time a circle spends on screen before you hit it needs to stay as it is, or unintended problems in maps such as overlaps may be introduced.

You also have to consider that faster circles means circles that start larger, which makes Flashlight easier.
Cyril Scarlet
osu! Alumni
3,877 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyril Scarlet
私のマッパー側としての意見

自分の譜面でこの曲、この配置、このリズムだからこの AR がマッチングする。
だからこの ＡＲ で作成したいしプレイして頂きたい。

もちろん自分がこの曲、配置、リズムがこのＡＲとマッチングするから
他の方もそう思うと言うのは思っていません。

個人差あるので理解は出来ます。

**********************************************************************


私のプレイヤーとしての意見

譜面作成側の意見もわかるけど、確かに個人差あるので
このＡＲ９譜面は出来るけど、あのＡＲ９は出来ない。
などと言うパターンもそう少なくは無い。

と言う事でこのアイデアは良い案なのかもしれない。
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
You also have to consider that faster circles means circles that start larger, which makes Flashlight easier.
This is my main concern regarding this...
dvorak_old
294 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
dvorak_old
It isn't hard to make AR change option for none//no-option only.
Mod play (+/- multiplayer) use AR which mapper set is solution for FL/HL become easier.

also about overlap/readability, everyone have unique brain/eye or not ?
Gomo Psivarh
584 posts
Joined December 2009
Gomo Psivarh
I ONLY support that you can customize AR and the custom AR will neutralize score bonus from mods.
Frostmourne
osu! Alumni
3,733 posts
Joined November 2009
Frostmourne
most of old beatmaps created with ar lower than 8

and i used to ar 8-9

if this idea be true, i think i can get more score from old beatmaps
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
that's how it should've been from the start, but currently it will break the set game balance
Waryas
Waryas
Omg yes i'll play with AR10 all the time!
In most rhythm game you can set the speed without affecting the score I don't know why osu wasn't made this way..
But make this possible only for nomod otherwise people will set low AR and DT+HR everything.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose

MetalMario201 wrote:

Approach circle speed is open to such a possibility, but the advanced time a circle spends on screen before you hit it needs to stay as it is, or unintended problems in maps such as overlaps may be introduced.
If the "fade-in" time of circles remains unchanged, it would be largely pointless to customize approach rate. Why? Most players read maps and determine "hit order" based on watching the circles themselves appear, not based upon approach circles. This is why low AR Hidden is incredibly difficult, why very few people can play Flashlight (while those that can are often found hitting notes in the wrong order or hitting notes early enough to result in a miss), why Hidden is so easy that it's almost "no mod" on AR 8 or so, why there are people who hate overlapping notes, despite the approach circles still being completely visible.

So, if the advanced time a circle spends on the screen must remain the same, what about Hard Rock and Easy mods then? These both alter when circles appear and can cause stack leniency and readability issues that weren't previously present in the map. It's especially noticeable with Easy mod because most maps that aren't already "Easy" become completely unreadable. Maybe I should post a feature request to remake the Easy mod, I've been meaning to do that for a while.

Also, I believe the doubletime mod should have been set to retain the approach rate setting of the map, rather than increasing it as it does now. As it stands now, DT is difficult because it increases approach rate to be incredibly high on many maps, not because it forces you to play faster.
Viola
40 posts
Joined October 2010
Viola
マッパーはランクさせるのに苦労しているわけですし、「これは絶対AR9でやってほしい！」
というのがあるかも知れません　(mappingはしないので分かりませんが)
なので、作ったマッパーがAR8でも9でも遊べるように設定できるならいいと思います
Mercurius
Former osu! Champion: 2014
501 posts
Joined November 2010
Mercurius
曲調にマッチさせる、速さを上げて難易度を調節する、などのmapperの意図を崩してしまうのでは？

これらを踏まえて、自分は反対です。
dvorak_old
294 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
dvorak_old

Viola wrote:

マッパーはランクさせるのに苦労しているわけですし、「これは絶対AR9でやってほしい！」
というのがあるかも知れません　(mappingはしないので分かりませんが)
なので、作ったマッパーがAR8でも9でも遊べるように設定できるならいいと思います
(trans by dvo) mapper spent much time to make own map as ranked, and there could be "play this map with AR9"
so if there is option that will allow mapper to choose changable or not ?


About this, it is impossible to ask whole mapper to activate this or not, so all or nothing is current solution.

これに関しては all or nothingで、mapperに選択可能にさせるという折衷案は現実的に不可能です。


Mercurius wrote:

曲調にマッチさせる、速さを上げて難易度を調節する、などのmapperの意図を崩してしまうのでは？

これらを踏まえて、自分は反対です。
To fit song. to adjust difficulty is mapper's though and this will break that ?
So I'm against this.


The first one is basically for mapper's thought, everyone have (like i said in first)
2nd, to use AR to adjust difficulty is intended usage of AR ?

一つ目については、曲調に合うARというものは個人の主観だよね？
2つ目についてはARを難易度調整に使うって正しい使い方なのかな？
Orgol
493 posts
Joined July 2010
Orgol
It's a good idea "Approach Rate function for user definable option".
Because it will be comfortable to play osu! than ever before (for all players).
But...what to do with up to the present online score ? :o
Last edited by Orgol , edited 1 time in total.
Rare
1,118 posts
Joined August 2010
Rare
いいアイデアだと思います。
自分は反対ですが、
mapperが決めた許容範囲でARが変更可能。
これなら自分はこの案には賛成に近づくかもしれません。
Muya
2,355 posts
Joined August 2009
Muya
star rateが変わってスコアが変わるRanked譜面もでると思うんですが、これはどう対処するのだろう・・・
tobaku2784
33 posts
Joined May 2009
tobaku2784
正直この意見には賛成か反対かと言われればどちらとも言えません。

正直ARを低くしたりすればやりやすいと言うと思いますが、スコアとかの換算をどうするんですか？という話ですね。

modとかでARを低くしたり高くしたりしてスコアを変えるのであれば話は別だと思いますが正直譜面によっては難易度が完全に変わりますしARをわざと下げてHRとかDTとかつけるのが出てきます。

もしもスコアに入れないと言うのであればspun autoみたいな扱いにすればいいと思います。しかしスコアに入れると言う話になると別ですね。輪が閉じるのが早いから難しいと言うものもあるのでそれをわざわざ簡単にしてしまうのはどうかと言う話です。難しくするのは別に僕としては反対じゃないです。

まぁ、ARを自分の設定で出来るようにする事には反対では無いです。しかしスコア等に反映させるのはどうかと思うって話ですね。練習にならいいと思います。もしスコア入れるならmodにするべきだと思います。

分かりにくい意見で申し訳ないです。
Sure
4,219 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
Difficulty change of AR change isn't always regular.
If player can adjust AR, score should be ignored.
dvorak_old
294 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
dvorak_old

Lunet wrote:

It's a good idea "Approach Rate function for user definable option".
Because it will be comfortable to play osu! than ever before (for all players).
But...what to do with up to the present online score ? :o
nothing, ranking is so much important for everyone and that is main part of motivation to play osu! ?



Muya wrote:

star rateが変わってスコアが変わるRanked譜面もでると思うんですが、これはどう対処するのだろう・・・
t) star rate changed and score change on ranked map ? how to treat this.

Default AR set by mapper and that is used to culc score , so no change at all.

マッパーがデフォルトのARを決めてスコア計算もそれですべてやるので問題なくない？
過去の曲とかのデフォルトARは.osuに書かれてある奴を維持。



tobaku2784 wrote:

正直この意見には賛成か反対かと言われればどちらとも言えません。
ごめん省略
ARを変えられるのはnone（ノーオプションプレイオンリー）、scoreについてはまあひとまず置いといてmodプレイについてはこれまでと一緒。
ARは本当に難易度が変わるのか、個人によって最適のARが存在する筈で、つまるところEasyやNormalの様に低いARを高くしたり
８ですら早い、７見えないみたいな人がInsaneをやれるキャパシティーあったとしても目の関係で無理＞ARを下げれるように
みたいに遊べる譜面の幅を拡げることが真の目的なのでランクスコアとかは実はあんまり関係ない話。
スコアをランクに乗せるとするならNoneオンリーで、将来的にはAR1（ビートマニアでいうノースピアタック）みたいなものから
AR１０固定のハイスピ狂までをおなじ土台で遊べるようにするのも一つの理想。


ykcarrot wrote:

Difficulty change of AR change isn't always regular.
If player can adjust AR, score should be ignored.
Score isn't main point of this request.



TKiller wrote:

that's how it should've been from the start, but currently it will break the set game balance
I know this is late, but if we can figure out good solution from here, it will be nice.
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