is this alive again
The part as a whole is more intense because of the transpose that happens at the buildup. As for what I'm following I am following the instruments in the background while catching some of the longer vocals with extended sliders.MaridiuS wrote:
03:14:298 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Just asking but I fail to understand what is being followed here. The vocals 03:14:298 (2,4,5) - which are like the only thing remotely intense in this pattern are not emphasized by either spacing or rhythm. 03:14:460 (3) - this note is too quiet to the point that I'm unsure if it's even a hihat.
This follows the piano melody on the background that is gradually rising in pitch.MaridiuS wrote:
03:15:271 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - same concern here.
What exactly do you expect from your reply? Let me just quote some lines:Lasse wrote:
there was never an actual reply to p/5947741 by the mapper
also @Bubblun: this is not how vetos are supposed to be handled anymore, see https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/People/Bea ... atmap_Veto
we are still in the process of mediating old vetos and put this one on higher priority now, please wait until it has been discussed
Discussions don't work like this. If you've read my post above, then you pretty much see where I'm coming from - your reply is nowhere close to base to discuss on.Lasse wrote:
Further discussion maybe?
Can wholeheartedly disagree with that. I've read the replies twice now. Saying that this is "nonsensical" just seems like a stubborn comment to keep the veto for the sake of it.Lasse wrote:
Furthermore the given replies were oftentimes far from satisfactory and pretty much nonsensical.
I hope this suffices as a proper reply to the veto.ProfessionalBox wrote:
Thank you for the mods !Lasse wrote:
some issues I have with the top diff Let's hear them!
03:04:082 (1) - clicking this seems so strange with what's going on the song, deleting this and making 03:03:920 (1) - a 1/2 or 3/4 slider seems nicer This current patterning is a way of emphasizing the complete stop that the music has between 03:03:839 - 03:03:920 - by a large spacing from a slow slider going to a fast kickslider. The reason it is a kickslider is because it immediately shoots the cursor movement back into the large and fast slider velocity that the part before it had and the part after it has in order to make the increase in overall spacing feel natural right from the start. Anytyhing else but a kickslider would feel lackluster in my opinion. the issue is not the kickslider itself, but how you put a click on 03:04:082 -
which makes no sense at all as I stated before. also the kickslider doesn't have such an effect as nobody willl follow it, thus no "shooting the movement
back" or anything. things that would make more sense: higher sv + 1/2 or 3/4 slider, a gap on rhythm, ... Made this a slider instead.
03:05:866 (3) - all important sounds are on the red tick, but you put a pretty pointless seeming extended slider over that? // 01:33:110 (6) - It would seem that this is outdated now as there is no extended slider
I also have no idea why things like 03:05:379 (3) - 03:06:352 (2) - etc. have to be fullscreen jumps, it's such a weak sound The fact that it is fullscreen doesn't really hold any extra value here as the whole part has relatively high spacing to follow the transpose the music has and the increase in intensity that the music brings with it because of that. So compared to rest of the spacing in this part this is normal spacing and consistent. it actually holds "extra" value by devaluing your other big jumps mapped to much more significant beats These are not nearly big enough to devalue other jumps in the map. The whole point of this part is what I explained earlier: Following the transpose with bigger overall spacing for the entire kiai section makes perfect sense. Unless you have another argument than devaluing jumps I will not even consider changing these as these are perfectly fine.
overall rhythm choice overall often seems like you just throw multiple layers together losing pretty much all emphasis, like 03:07:974 (2,2) - are emphasizing vocals, but 03:07:487 (1) - ignores vocals, despite 03:07:487 (1,1,2,1,2) - being a rather repetitive thing, so using the same rhythm for all 3 parts of this would make more sense I think This part has been changed with the IRC mod from Bubblun
01:39:110 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - this completely ignores the song with the pretty outstanding 3/4 rhythm of the drums, emphasis would be on http://lasse.s-ul.eu/RohA0gx2.jpg Changed.
02:26:785 (2) - things like this make no sense at all emphasis wise, you put a click on nothing and end it on snare+vocal which seem to be what you usally focus on 02:26:299 (1,2,1,2) - These being the opposites of eachother rhythmwise is intended to emphasize the switch from vocal follow into following drums for the duration that vocals aren't present how does that justify mapping 1/2 sliders that randomly start on nothing but end on important beats. this could probably work as some overall concept of the map, but not like you did it idk if this is an outdated point but the current way is perfectly fine not gonna touch it.
02:57:109 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - completely ignores 3/4 emphasis again, when http://lasse.s-ul.eu/QIRZ6L19.jpg stand out so much more#
this is so distinctively different from 02:55:812 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - yet you just continue the spacing increasing stream. Here it is about the gradual intensity increase of the part as a whole and not individual circles. The important beats get their emphasis from the tiny streamjumps included. Not gonna budge on this.
03:44:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - think a rhythm like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ARIYEh0W.jpg would be nice as that would let you emphasize the snares with 1/4 sliders and the melody with jumps/starting to click again, the current is alright on melody with (5) but seems a bit weird with the very outstanding snares on the white ticks Here the emphasizing in the simplified version happens with the turning point being the strong kick 03:44:622 (5) - simplifying 3/4 rhythms on a 185bpm 7* map, nice. as above this doesn't represent the song at all Current way is perfectly fine.
another thing would be overall usage of spacing between sections, mainly in the "calmer" parts like the intro, making for a lack of contrast between them and the more intense parts
examples would be 00:06:028 (2,3) - 00:05:704 (5,1) - 00:11:218 (6,1) - and a lot more similar stuff in this part. it's only background noise and vocals, yet very similar to the first chorus intensity wise Hmm I like the idea of distincting these more so I'll adjust them to what might seem a little to you but noticeable for me but still I will lower the spacing on these!
00:46:974 (1) - 00:56:461 - this part is executed better in that regard I agree.
00:57:272 (2,3) - what are these even following? big spacing jumps on nothing? I agree these do land on nothingness but this is the kind of reasonable "overmapping" that exists as I went over this with Monstrata and got opinions from players such as Xilver for this aswell. While you are playing this clicking at these part feels only natural opposed to having nothing there. And the argument for these being big jumps refer to my response below. similar to earlier points, devalues the actual strong sounds in the song Current way is perfectly fine.
02:14:461 (2) - can you at least not put huge spacing on these things lol clicking is already barely makes any sense here But this isn't huge? compare to 02:15:272 (2,3) - 02:16:083 (3,1) - 02:16:893 (3,4) - This is normal spacing I use for this part. maybe reconsider your whole spacing concept then Current way is perfectly fine.
Lasse wrote:
01:39:110 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - this at least makes more sense now
02:56:785 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - still doesnt even try to represent the 3/4 emphasis in the song through movement or rhythm
well the map is still filled with lots of questionable things, so I'll just sum up the main points again since the replies are getting too convoluted
just looking at rhythms 03:04:244 (1,2,3,4) - makes me question what you're trying to do, it feels like mindless circle spam and according to your replies this won't change and it's basically the whole map. basically makes the whole map feel extremely forced since it's filled with circle jump spam that feels completely out of place
some other diffs (like Kibbleru's) actually seem to do this much better from the quick look I had, if you want an example for rhythm choice that actually makes sense
rhythm/spacing overall just feels like a mess, looking at things like 03:07:487 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - just being random fullscreen 1-2 jumps, you can't even argue that you wanted to emphasize vocals or whatever, those are focusing on red ticks
then other rhythm things that just make everything unclear for example 01:25:326 (5) - before this you focused on vocals, then suddenly this just switches to drums and completely skips red tick vocal, followed by 01:25:326 (5,1,2,3) - being some kind of drum rhythm just to go back to vocals on 01:26:299 (1,2,3,1,2) - which is one of the issues that happens pretty much throughout the whole map
[]
short summary:
overall I still think both spacing and rhythm are fundamentally flawed, which is also the main reason to keep this veto
lots of examples in the initial veto (like 00:57:110 (1,2,3) - etc) and in this post, I can basically jump to a random point in the map and find things like 01:31:488 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - within a few seconds, which just feels like nonsensical filler rhythm jump spam
Overall your analysis is not bad, but still lacking because you either mistakenly selected wrong timestamps, or are incorrectly labelling every "example" you find as unjustified/nonsensical. For example, looking at your short summary, you are absolutely correct in saying stuff like 00:57:110 (1,2,3) - are unjustified in both rhythm choice (why are they circles, there's no musical support for them) and spacing (why are they so big? there is nothing supporting them in the music so creating emphasis onto them is an even bigger red flag). Stuff like this is worth veto'ing. I brought it up as a potential concern when I originally nominated, but wanted to see how this issue would be discussed. A discussion around these pattern is what I was looking for, so thank you for that.Lasse wrote:
02:56:785 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - still doesnt even try to represent the 3/4 emphasis in the song through movement or rhythm This shouldn't need to follow 3/4 emphasis. This is clearly following the 1/4 drum roll and it's completely justified by the music. Here, there is no imperative to following 3/4, rather that would distract from the mapper's objective here.
just looking at rhythms 03:04:244 (1,2,3,4) - makes me question what you're trying to do, it feels like mindless circle spam and according to your replies this won't change and it's basically the whole map. basically makes the whole map feel extremely forced since it's filled with circle jump spam that feels completely out of place Are you sure? This is probably not the timestamp you want, because everything here is justified in the music... Listen to what the circles are following, when you click them you can hear them syncing to something. I get your concerns though, just, not a good example here imo.
rhythm/spacing overall just feels like a mess, looking at things like 03:07:487 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - just being random fullscreen 1-2 jumps, you can't even argue that you wanted to emphasize vocals or whatever, those are focusing on red ticks If you look at the map as a whole they aren't "random full screen" jumps, they aren't even that big since vertical screen jumps are a lot smaller than horizontal screen jumps. Rhythm-wise, they follow kicks and vocals. Following vocals =/= emphasizing vocals. Mapping these as 1/2 sliders is too simple for this difficulty, using 1/2 circles is the way to go so inevitable you have to map kicks and vocals to 1/2.
then other rhythm things that just make everything unclear for example 01:25:326 (5) - before this you focused on vocals, then suddenly this just switches to drums and completely skips red tick vocal, followed by 01:25:326 (5,1,2,3) - being some kind of drum rhythm just to go back to vocals on 01:26:299 (1,2,3,1,2) - which is one of the issues that happens pretty much throughout the whole map Yes, agree with these. Brought it up with ProBox at one point, I still recommend fixing this.
[]
short summary:
overall I still think both spacing and rhythm are fundamentally flawed, which is also the main reason to keep this veto
lots of examples in the initial veto (like 00:57:110 (1,2,3) - etc) This is a good example and in this post, I can basically jump to a random point in the map and find things like 01:31:488 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - within a few seconds Poor example here though. Everything here snaps to something in the music., which just feels like nonsensical filler rhythm jump spam
what do u think happens when you give power hungry children power?diraimur wrote:
you people are trying so hard to kill osu lol
So I as the mapper am not allowed to interpret what I want to contrast? I'm forced to follow kick - snare - kick - snare - kick - snare - kick - snare - kick - snare - loop for the entirety of the map in every pattern I make instead of map the vocals/melody in a generally highly spaced manner like I am currently?-Mo- wrote:
Spacing concept used leaves little to no room for contrast in spacing and movement to match contrasting elements in the song within many patterns. Contrast in spacing between patterns in certain sections is too minor and disallows differentiation of strong vs. weak beats.
If they are so abundant then can you please list me more of these aswell? I really don't know which parts you mean other than the ones you have linked here and those that have been brought up earlier and got looked over or fixed. I will then go edit the sounds into the mp3 so they are undeniably supported.-Mo- wrote:
An abundance of overmapping mostly unsupported by the song.
Overall from what I understand and read, it feels like the map was vetod because some people don't agree with the idea the map is mapped.Lasse wrote:
01:39:110 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - this at least makes more sense now
02:56:785 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - still doesnt even try to represent the 3/4 emphasis in the song through movement or rhythm Does it have to? He decided to make a stream there as a buildup, this is fine? Even if I would not map it like this, I understand why it is mapped the way it is.
well the map is still filled with lots of questionable things, so I'll just sum up the main points again since the replies are getting too convoluted
just looking at rhythms 03:04:244 (1,2,3,4) - makes me question what you're trying to do, it feels like mindless circle spam and according to your replies this won't change and it's basically the whole map. basically makes the whole map feel extremely forced since it's filled with circle jump spam that feels completely out of place If you see this in basically the whole map, maybe that was the idea? I actually think emphasizing the way he did is interesting, it's off-polarity but still carries the same meaning while playing. The thing you say is "forced", I think that's just the style he was going for in the map, because the difficulty is supposed to be difficult, if he'd just do the difficult parts as difficult as they are, there would be complains about PP parts I reckon. The rhythm is not a standard approach, but it makes sense. Since it's consistent in the map, you get used to playing the map that way too.
some other diffs (like Kibbleru's) actually seem to do this much better from the quick look I had, if you want an example for rhythm choice that actually makes sense
rhythm/spacing overall just feels like a mess, looking at things like 03:07:487 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - just being random fullscreen 1-2 jumps, you can't even argue that you wanted to emphasize vocals or whatever, those are focusing on red ticks The emphasis is still on the vocals, he doesn't need to put a click on the vocal when he emphasizes it the way he does in the song, look at the whole map not just at the pattern, the other patterns are made the same way. But about the spacing, yeah I don't really agree with it since if focusing vocals was the goal the spacing should not be as big here as when the pitch really goes high up in the song, that part of the map, I don't understand either, yet I feel it's acceptable since it's an idea he had and he follows it.
then other rhythm things that just make everything unclear for example 01:25:326 (5) - before this you focused on vocals, then suddenly this just switches to drums and completely skips red tick vocal, Agree, the vocal should be emphasized there.[/color] followed by 01:25:326 (5,1,2,3) - being some kind of drum rhythm just to go back to vocals on 01:26:299 (1,2,3,1,2) - which is one of the issues that happens pretty much throughout the whole map Yeah I Agree about the rhythm change although, in some maps you can't always focus the vocals and make it play well, the filler rhythm is okay, you can still change to simple rhythm for a few notes and go back to vocals when it presents the opportunity to do so, that makes the map play much better, focusing solely on vocals and ignoring other stuff is not always the best idea either. Also again, if it happens in entire map, that makes you ready for it, and it's consistent, which is again, fine.
[]
short summary:
overall I still think both spacing and rhythm are fundamentally flawed, which is also the main reason to keep this veto
lots of examples in the initial veto (like 00:57:110 (1,2,3) - etc) Right this example here I don't see a problem, I rather think minimizing the spacing would make it play more awkwardly than it does right now considering the general spacing of the map, that applies to many of those examples you think of. The bigger spacing works in this map, I tried changing to lower and it played completely differently. and in this post, I can basically jump to a random point in the map and find things like 01:31:488 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - within a few seconds, which just feels like nonsensical filler rhythm jump spam Even though I would not space it as much, you just feel it's nonsensical filler rhythm jump spam, but for him it's the idea of how he maps those sections in the song, don't you think a mapper like ProBox thinks of what he is doing, he obviously follows the same logic throughout the map, it might not suit your idea but it's consistent, it plays well and while I don't agree with the spacing I think it's acceptable in a difficult map like this.
-Mo- wrote:
Hello!
One of your beatmaps was recently referred to us for mediation following a Beatmap Nominator veto. The details of the veto can be found here.
After discussion amongst members of the Quality Assurance Team Disqualification Branch, we have decided to uphold the veto. The reasons for this decision are stated briefly below:Additional information/discussion points can be found in this post and, as stated previously, in the original veto post.
- Spacing concept used leaves little to no room for contrast in spacing and movement to match contrasting elements in the song within many patterns. Contrast in spacing between patterns in certain sections is too minor and disallows differentiation of strong vs. weak beats. Examples can be found within the original veto post, alongside 00:31:164 (1,2,3,1) - mostly mapped to faint bg noise yet huge spacing, 00:36:353 (1,2) - emphasis on red tick with no sound yet is nearly halfway across the screen, 01:05:218 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - which has no emphasis on red ticks yet are 1>2 half-screens.
Contrast is not limited to spacing. There are other ways to create emphasis, and other ways to show groupings. Perhaps you meant "the spacing concept does not utilize enough instances of high/low spacing". If you meant that, to which the solution is increasing the usage of high/low spacing a bit, then we have something to work with. The current analysis ignores other methods of creating emphasis, and also assumes a map requires emphasis at all points. One really big "problem" you might have seen in quaver is it's near complete lack of "emphasis" across multiple jump patterns, regardless of snare placements (listen to hitsounds). This is because with largely-spaced jumps, spacing changes become a lot more problematic for players. The spacing changes aren't as appreciated because players are moving so fast, and changing spacing results in poor flow too, because the player will not be able to maintain a consistent movement, which they need to maintain momentum and play these really big jumps.- An abundance of overmapping mostly unsupported by the song. A noticeable case is 00:55:650 (3,1,2,3) - where there is no 3/4 in the song, similar to 02:12:191 (2,1,2). 00:57:110 (1,2,3,4) - also an unsupported rhythm as there are no notable sounds on (2), coupled with too high spacing.
I think there is some merit to this, but as I already mentioned in my response to Lasse, it would greatly benefit this discussion if you guys could clarify that these "abundant instances of overmapping" are directed at only these true overmapping circles, and not other patterns that are being used as filler rhythm. Please refer to my post because it is honestly the #1 reason why everyone's getting confused here. Then again, it doesn't seem like there are abundant cases using those examples as reference. How about you go through the first minute of the song, or half of it, and point out all instances? If you do that, we can immediately get a sense of how to best remedy this issue. And perhaps you might realize there actually aren't as many cases of unsupported notes as you may have thought.
The beatmap may not be re-nominated at this time until appropriate changes are made that remedy the issues present.
Once changes have been made to the beatmap, both the Nominator who performed the beatmap veto, as well as the QAT members upholding it, will recheck the beatmap and decide individually if the issues have been satisfactorily addressed.
The first one is intentional - the latter one isn't. I feel like the first one helps build that extra bit of tension before letting you on a break and I feel like it's a nice touch in that sense. The latter one I removed.UndeadCapulet wrote:
uh im not gonna touch anything in this thread but i think you should remove the break extensions at 02:38:947 - and 02:46:204 - bc they dont follow anything
best of luck getting this sorted out
The beatmap may not be re-nominated at this time until appropriate changes are made that remedy the issues present.Can the QAT explain how these new veto rules allow mappers to stand up for themselves? Despite the clear contrast in mapping views between the QAT and some ex-BNs who both provide fair opinions on the map, the mapper is still being forced to apply the vetoed changes; The changes the QAT themselves deemed necessary. I think you guys need to look over the statements (Especially Monstrata's, he explained it really well) and let this map go through as clear corruption is going on. The mediation here was clearly not designed to improve the map, so I feel it's unfair to uphold the veto.
Once changes have been made to the beatmap, both the Nominator who performed the beatmap veto, as well as the QAT members upholding it, will recheck the beatmap and decide individually if the issues have been satisfactorily addressed.
The thing is, it doesn't allow them. If the arguments were not compelling enough or the mentioned stuff didn't change, the map is as good as nuked. Although there may be a case in which the community and random guys pressure the QAT so hard they start doubting their choices ;p.Bubblun wrote:
The beatmap may not be re-nominated at this time until appropriate changes are made that remedy the issues present.Can the QAT explain how these new veto rules allow mappers to stand up for themselves? Despite the clear contrast in mapping views between the QAT and some ex-BNs who both provide fair opinions on the map, the mapper is still being forced to apply the vetoed changes; The changes the QAT themselves deemed necessary. I think you guys need to look over the statements (Especially Monstrata's, he explained it really well) and let this map go through as clear corruption is going on. The mediation here was clearly not designed to improve the map, so I feel it's unfair to uphold the veto.
Once changes have been made to the beatmap, both the Nominator who performed the beatmap veto, as well as the QAT members upholding it, will recheck the beatmap and decide individually if the issues have been satisfactorily addressed.
03:31:974 (5,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Like if you're claiming to follow the melody/synth or w/e it would only make sense to do sliders on red ticks , or like how you're doing cross screen jumps here 03:37:163 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - even though white ticks are not a part of the synth, etc. Imo if you're mapping both layers it won't be intuitive and as intense as if you would follow the same layer building up in constant 1/2's . The least you could do is reduce it's spacing by a fair margin in order to make stuff that's pure one layer following and intuitive to everyone be truly emphasized. Rhythmically human beings struggle at following two layers at once too, you'd either follow one rhythm or the other. 02:29:542 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - this is really nice because its the same layer making it quite intuitive. 03:07:487 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - but this is as spaced as that with overmapping (or rather following 2 layers at once).ProfessionalBox wrote:
The part as a whole is more intense because of the transpose that happens at the buildup. As for what I'm following I am following the instruments in the background while catching some of the longer vocals with extended sliders.MaridiuS wrote:
03:14:298 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - Just asking but I fail to understand what is being followed here. The vocals 03:14:298 (2,4,5) - which are like the only thing remotely intense in this pattern are not emphasized by either spacing or rhythm. 03:14:460 (3) - this note is too quiet to the point that I'm unsure if it's even a hihat.
Here for example I simply cannot hear the background instruments over the vocals. It took me your reply and more analysis to realize the synth / piano in the editor, how do you assume that players will instantly hear and understand the rhythm over the vocals which are a lot more louder.This follows the piano melody on the background that is gradually rising in pitch.MaridiuS wrote:
03:15:271 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - same concern here.
Here it's still vague and goes beyond attention of the player unless mentioned (even then barely to me).
i think you people are looking at the map too narrowly without looking at the big picture. also for the record, ideas kinda lose their meanings if you enforce them, no?MaridiuS wrote:
The thing is, it doesn't allow them. If the arguments were not compelling enough or the mentioned stuff didn't change, the map is as good as nuked. Although there may be a case in which the community and random guys pressure the QAT so hard they start doubting their choices ;p.
"After discussion amongst members of the Quality Assurance Team Disqualification Branch, we have decided to uphold the veto. The reasons for this decision are stated briefly below:"
Let this sink in, QAT decided that this map is fundamentally flawed not just like 2 people. bunch of people that dont even play the gamemode decided that a map thats way above their comfort level (im not talking about gameplay wise, im actually talking about mapping. obviously they differ.) that a map is fundamentally flawed, therefore it should be! wait what
Also, am too lazy to read the whole thread but since people like to take sides i'd take the QAT one. The fact doesn't change that there are plenty of overmaps (or rather important notes getting the same emphasis as plain hihats) and that base spacing is way too over the top that there's no proper contrast. Some small patterning tweaks are not adequate because they're really small. There is no big difference in patterning or movement for it to be proper contrast because the spacing is just way too big for anything else to be felt as normally as it would on lower spacing. its almost like this map was made to be challenging
"So I as the mapper am not allowed to interpret what I want to contrast? I'm forced to follow kick - snare - kick - snare - kick - snare - kick - snare - kick - snare - loop for the entirety of the map in every pattern I make instead of map the vocals/melody in a generally highly spaced manner like I am currently? "
Generally the problems is that you're not doing the vocals melody emphasis? For example this: 03:07:163 (3) - it's just a plain snare yet it gets emphasis like vocals or melody that you're claiming to follow. There are multiple cases in which you just follow the drums out of nowhere even if they have little or nothing to do with the layer you were following. you can combine multiple layers. other rhythm games do this a lot. its crazy, right?
This follows the piano melody on the background that is gradually rising in pitch.
Here it's still vague and goes beyond attention of the player unless mentioned (even then barely to me).
03:31:974 (5,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Like if you're claiming to follow the melody/synth or w/e it would only make sense to do sliders on red ticks , or like how you're doing cross screen jumps here 03:37:163 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - excuse me, whats the difference between two of them aside from different symmetry usage? even though white ticks are not a part of the synth, etc. Imo if you're mapping both layers it won't be intuitive and as intense as if you would follow the same layer building up in constant 1/2's . The least you could do is reduce it's spacing by a fair margin in order to make stuff that's pure one layer following and intuitive to everyone be truly emphasized. i think its a common misconseption that you have to completely butcher other layers to emphasise on just one, and a very narrow view on the song overall. Rhythmically human beings struggle at following two layers at once too, you'd either follow one rhythm or the other. 02:29:542 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - this is really nice because its the same layer making it quite intuitive. 03:07:487 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - but this is as spaced as that with overmapping (or rather following 2 layers at once). hello i'm not sure if we are looking at same difficulty but this map supposed to be a challenging map. i just wanted to point that out!
Also a message to everyone that you seem to forget: Just because it's an idea doesn't mean that it's a good or the best one.
:arrow: Generally the problems is that you're not doing the vocals melody emphasis? For example this: 03:07:163 (3) - it's just a plain snare yet it gets emphasis like vocals or melody that you're claiming to follow. There are multiple cases in which you just follow the drums out of nowhere even if they have little or nothing to do with the layer you were following. you can combine multiple layers. other rhythm games do this a lot. its crazy, right?The difference is that in other rhythmic games you use different buttons for different layers. This is all just being pressed with one button (unless you're alting) while if it's not emphasized with rhythm its not neither with patterning or spacing or other forms of emphasis in multiple cases.
its almost like this map was made to be challengingThat should never be done at the cost of sacrificing song following on larger degrees if it were to be fit for ranked section.
Let this sink in, QAT decided that this map is fundamentally flawed not just like 2 people. bunch of people that dont even play the gamemode decided that a map thats way above their comfort level (im not talking about gameplay wise, im actually talking about mapping. obviously they differ.) that a map is fundamentally flawed, therefore it should be! wait whatWhere'd you get the info that other game modes are interfering? That is not happening and I can assure you. Also I'd appreciate people not attacking people for their rank when there are things being judged here that is not playability, and they can also judge playability to a fair margin.
"i think you people are looking at the map too narrowly without looking at the big picture. also for the record, ideas kinda lose their meanings if you enforce them, no?"