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playing with pressing all keys

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CircusGalop
121 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
CircusGalop
It's possible to keep the combo by pressing all keys when all of the notes have slower than BPM 150 eighth beat. What do you think about this in terms of scoring?

example

I think that the judgement time of early MISS should be changed to the fixed value like 200ms from score v2 and max HP should be increased also.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
What about this?:
  1. Remove the early miss timing window. Set the biggest window fixed to ~150ms
  2. Penalize hitting very far from perfect timing more (in terms of scoring/acc%, hitting a 100/50 is not that much worse compared to hitting a 200).
  3. Make extraneous button presses or releases break combo (recovering a LN released early doesn't count as a extraneous press). Make a counter of those extraneous presses. Consider each extraneous hit as a fraction of a miss for accuracy/score (for example, 20 misses and 125 extraneous presses is equivalent to 20+125/10 = 32.5 misses).
  4. (unrelated, but worth mentioning) Removing the lengths of the combo strings entirely from the score calculation (or just make accuracy the main metric of performance instead of combo-influenced score). Use a better formula for calculating accuracy (for example, using the ms errors directly instead of the judgment counts makes things more simple and accurate).
As for HP drain, I consider the failing mechanic in this game superfluous (no need to make people end early the stage when they are playing poorly, they should just be given a low score/acc%).
CircusGalop
121 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
CircusGalop

Full Tablet wrote:

What about this?:
  1. Remove the early miss timing window. Set the biggest window fixed to ~150ms
  2. Penalize hitting very far from perfect timing more (in terms of scoring/acc%, hitting a 100/50 is not that much worse compared to hitting a 200).
  3. Make extraneous button presses or releases break combo (recovering a LN released early doesn't count as a extraneous press). Make a counter of those extraneous presses. Consider each extraneous hit as a fraction of a miss for accuracy/score (for example, 20 misses and 125 extraneous presses is equivalent to 20+125/10 = 32.5 misses).
  4. (unrelated, but worth mentioning) Removing the lengths of the combo strings entirely from the score calculation (or just make accuracy the main metric of performance instead of combo-influenced score). Use a better formula for calculating accuracy (for example, using the ms errors directly instead of the judgment counts makes things more simple and accurate).
As for HP drain, I consider the failing mechanic in this game superfluous (no need to make people end early the stage when they are playing poorly, they should just be given a low score/acc%).

That would be better.

But I think it's a bit complicated about the penalty.
For example, there may be a simple way to give a penalty to the judgment of the next coming note.
  1. If make extraneous button presses, break combo, darken the next coming note (for LN, only the head is darkened.) and lower its score.
dewero
83 posts
Joined May 2013
dewero


It's been a known problem since the early days of osumania, and nothing's changed since. I wouldn't expect anything to change before osu!lazer is released anyways
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Just add a mod where you can't press empty spaces or a mod that makes each note have its own OD based on spacing.
juankristal
osu! Alumni
1,408 posts
Joined August 2010
juankristal
I mean, some solutions implies you cant really ghost tap anymore so I dont really see the problem here. Sure, you can combo stuff by smashing and thats a problem but the game is usually about accuracy.

Point is just having fun :P
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

juankristal wrote:

I mean, some solutions implies you cant really ghost tap anymore so I dont really see the problem here. Sure, you can combo stuff by smashing and thats a problem but the game is usually about accuracy.

Point is just having fun :P
In the example video here, they get 100% accuracy by pressing all keys each note, for me, that method of playing would be the easiest way to get a SS or high score in that map because I don't have good enough finger control for 10K.

The problem is that, if your finger independence is not high enough for a certain keycount, you can get more score more easily by pressing all keys instead of attempting to play the map like it was intended (the problem is more pronounced with higher keycounts), thus the game doesn't encourage a form of playing that leads to faster improvement (and can potentially lead players to a wall when they try to play maps where pressing extra keys is not as effective because of the higher vertical density, adding frustration to the players in the longer-term).
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
If someone is trying to all-press their way through stuff because they suck, chances are they arent too interested in actually getting better at the game. There comes a point where all-pressing simply will not get you an ss, and eventually theres a point where it will completely wreck your scores. I dont see this as a huge problem since anyone playing this way obviously doesnt care about actually vetting good (or they are already good and they're dicking around, in which case chances are they wont come close to scoring as well as they would if they actually played correctly).

All-pressing is only really an issue for low difficulties where your scores are relatively meaningless anyway. If a player goes from 120k rank to 100k rank by all-pressing, that really doesnt affect anything.
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
If you can get good acc by quadjacking every note to grief and malice, I'll be impressed.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Yuudachi-kun wrote:

If you can get good acc by quadjacking every note to grief and malice, I'll be impressed.
The argument is about chordjacking in higher keymodes that require finger independence

4k is barely relevant here



juankristal wrote:

I mean, some solutions implies you cant really ghost tap anymore so I dont really see the problem here.
Since my solutions removes the ability to ghost tap, here is a better solution: tapping an empty space that is between any other two notes within their OD range should count as a miss. I think the spacing between the two notes where the empty notes would count as a miss should be between one and N-3 columns apart, where N is the number of keys in the keymode. So for 7k, empty space between two notes spanning anywhere from 1 to 2 columns apart would be miss territory. For 8k, it's 1 to 3 columns apart, and so on.
Last edited by abraker , edited 3 times in total.
Yuudachi-kun
5,435 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
If you can get good acc allamashing 7 keys on every note in any insane 7k file id be impressed
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
Honestly just having a mashpoor mechanic like BMS/IIDX do would be well enough to penalize for pressing too many keys
That is just not break combo, but add a diffrent type of miss that just drains your HP bar. That way if you mash too much you will just lose all your HP and die, and it would also penalize mashing certain sections in some charts in a way that's not too harsh but also significant enough.

However as dewero pointed out it's not very likely to happen as we didn't get almost any changes in the game ever since that video.
nadavv
95 posts
Joined January 2016
nadavv
But ghost tapping is too fun how will I be able to play 1* now
CircusGalop
121 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
CircusGalop
If a 18k map becomes loved state, I could get much better scores while spamming. Such playing is not fun though :?

youtube

Beatmap link
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1416664
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1299182
Last edited by CircusGalop , edited 3 times in total.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Or it can be a little impressive
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