L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:
A person complaining about a mod what he has never truly played?????
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FL and HR hipocresy.
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Sundae wrote:
L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:
A person complaining about a mod what he has never truly played?????
u should take a look at scorev2 multipliers - the fl nerf u wanted is already planned! i believe under scorev2 fl only would give much less score than DT or HDHR, also HDFL would no longer be able to beat HDDT (i had a screenshot of all exact mod values but i can't find it)
as for the specifics, i don't think u should be talking about the exact numbers of multipliers or pp when you're an only-nomod player. please get a first place rank on a map and hold it for at least a week, because until then you wouldn't be able to appreciate the true difficulty of fl.
this is a nice post and you have an interesting idea - some aspects of which i can agree with - but sadly i don't think it's worth such a long post when you don't have much experience with what you're talking about
as for the specifics, i don't think u should be talking about the exact numbers of multipliers or pp when you're an only-nomod player. please get a first place rank on a map and hold it for at least a week, because until then you wouldn't be able to appreciate the true difficulty of fl.
this is a nice post and you have an interesting idea - some aspects of which i can agree with - but sadly i don't think it's worth such a long post when you don't have much experience with what you're talking about
Yes I definitely think 1 trick pony hddt scores should beat hdhrfl scores where people actually put effort into the score 
u should consider with another modeDarkan996 wrote:
I will make another post on how to kinda fix FL problem, I have think about it and the best option it's just delete it from the game, it's has a lot of controvensyal involved if you think heavely arround it.
In Mania..
I need FL for reducing heavy notes appeared..
This mod help me to not panic when facing massive notes..
i think...
feature request means add new features. Not delete old features.
How do you post this and shoot 5 stars to this request? I don't get it.edgerrdz wrote:
I'd like to think anything OP wants to do with FL would be specific to standard and not other gamemodes. If not, this is gonna burst into flames and be nuked even fasterCoffeeLatte- wrote:
u should consider with another mode
In Mania..
I need FL for reducing heavy notes appeared..
abraker wrote:
I'd like to think anything OP wants to do with FL would be specific to standard and not other gamemodes. If not, this is gonna burst into flames and be nuked even faster
There are still have another ways rather than delete it from the game.
Topic Starter
Im not complaining about FL, not in this post at least. It's was just a comment with no arguments to argue in the hole other coment, i say why i think that should be eliminate it and a lot of stuff but i bet you and any other who paste this don't read the other coments. In that I explain miself, but the point of the comment wasnt complaing about FL, that's why don't have arguments supporting that. Idk that complaning about FL will make a lot of peaple salty LOL.L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:
A person complaining about a mod what he has never truly played?????
Oh that's nice, idk that about scorev2. I really don't need to have much exp to say playing FL to say that the multp are wrong. I mean, or you make FL give more PP or you make HR give less or you change the multp it's not about playing or not the mod, it's just logic. I just expresed one form to do it, but you can fix this making FL give more PP than HR, becouse it's should, taking acount FL has a higher mulpt.Dagresha wrote:
u should take a look at scorev2 multipliers - the fl nerf u wanted is already planned! i believe under scorev2 fl only would give much less score than DT or HDHR, also HDFL would no longer be able to beat HDDT (i had a screenshot of all exact mod values but i can't find it)
as for the specifics, i don't think u should be talking about the exact numbers of multipliers or pp when you're an only-nomod player. please get a first place rank on a map and hold it for at least a week, because until then you wouldn't be able to appreciate the true difficulty of fl.
this is a nice post and you have an interesting idea - some aspects of which i can agree with - but sadly i don't think it's worth such a long post when you don't have much experience with what you're talking about
This is probably sarcasm. So.. i don't say that in my post, HRHDFL plays will beat HDDT, check the mulpt that I suggest.Jatie wrote:
Yes I definitely think 1 trick pony hddt scores should beat hdhrfl scores where people actually put effort into the score
I was thinking only in Osu! standar, since that's why I play only, but I will take this into account now, thanks.CoffeeLatte- wrote:
u should consider with another modeDarkan996 wrote:
I will make another post on how to kinda fix FL problem, I have think about it and the best option it's just delete it from the game, it's has a lot of controvensyal involved if you think heavely arround it.
In Mania..
I need FL for reducing heavy notes appeared..
This mod help me to not panic when facing massive notes..
i think...
feature request means add new features. Not delete old features.
Before I am going to ask if you're actually capable to understand the mods you put in critic, I'd suggest to put this stuff in Gameplay & Rankings in future. Yes, this is a thread about changing mods' calculation but this is by far more sensitive than changing the behaviour of a feature or to optimize utilities in the client.
Since this thread reads like something you usually find in the G&R forums it'd also be good involve people in this discussion who has experience with said mods. And by all honesty, I don't think you can provide enough experience to carry the complaint towards Flashlight mod.
Since this thread reads like something you usually find in the G&R forums it'd also be good involve people in this discussion who has experience with said mods. And by all honesty, I don't think you can provide enough experience to carry the complaint towards Flashlight mod.
Sundae wrote:
L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:
A person complaining about a mod what he has never truly played?????
very nice. :3Stefan wrote:
And by all honesty, I don't think you can provide enough experience to carry the complaint towards Flashlight mod.
Topic Starter
That was nice! I will check that out soon, thanks! Im think I am very capable to understand the mod at least for what im asking, its a hipocresy about this 2 mods, the thread isnt for talking if FL it's easy or not, that's another thing that comes for a missunderstand of the thread and a separede comment of it. You don't need a lot of experience with the mod if you are going to say that the multp of the mod it's wrong, comparing to other mods, that's base on the mulpt should be easier but the PP system dosen't think like that. It's an hipocresy, im not talking about the mod being easy or harder, not in the main thread at least.Stefan wrote:
Before I am going to ask if you're actually capable to understand the mods you put in critic, I'd suggest to put this stuff in Gameplay & Rankings in future. Yes, this is a thread about changing mods' calculation but this is by far more sensitive than changing the behaviour of a feature or to optimize utilities in the client.
Since this thread reads like something you usually find in the G&R forums it'd also be good involve people in this discussion who has experience with said mods.
The experience that I have with FL it's 0. But, even so, tell me why I need experience with FL when Im talking to change the mulpt of it?Stefan wrote:
And by all honesty, I don't think you can provide enough experience to carry the complaint towards Flashlight mod.
just change your op to focus on how bad the multipliers are instead of focusing mod(s) which people accuse you for not having enough experience with. I know there is multiplier talk in there, but the slightest mention of talking what is easier and harder and who can do what like here:Darkan996 wrote:
The experience that I have with FL it's 0. But, even so, tell me why I need experience with FL when Im talking to change the mulpt of it?
This was only an introduction for the actual hipocresy, i mean, get an FC with FL it's easyer im some way that get an FC with HR, and that's is demostrated in the PP. FC with HR will give you more PP that FC with FL. A guy with hundreds of tries can FC a map with FL, but if the same guy dosen't have the skill to do it with HR he will never FC the song, that's why FL plays are easier in some way, a low level player can FC FL plays but not HR FC the same play, becouse he dosen't have skill.is gonna attract eyes and will cause people profile check whoever wrote that. Obviously they see your profile and agree that your judgment of which player can do what makes sense for someone who has no experience with the thing at hand.
Topic Starter
Well in this one you are completly right. Or almost, i should say. When I was writing that I was thinking in the other post that I will do disscusing that topic. The point of the comment was explain a argument that I will use when i make that post, and i shouldn't do that, was my bad.abraker wrote:
is gonna attract eyes and will cause people profile check whoever wrote that. Obviously they see your profile and agree that your judgment of which player can do what makes sense for someone who has no experience with the thing at hand.
The argument is base in the fact that you don't necesarry be good at the game of a hole to FC a map with FL, if you can easily FC the song with no mod, or HD, if you tried times enough you will FC with FL. It's easy, but it's possible, here's comes the controversy, it's hard to FC it, but then why I said it was easy? Well I said it was "Easier in some way" If you don't have the skill enough In the game itself you will have to play a lot's of tries into the map to FC it with DT, for exampel. But when talking about FL, you don't need to have overall skill in the game, you need skill with FL and with that song, that's becouse FL is such an selfish mode, that has his own skill in diference for DT and HR wich they both have simillar skill (Or idk really how to put it in english words but I mean this in spanish "FL es un mod tan egoista que tiene su propio tipo de habilidad para el solo, en cambio de DT y HR que para ser mejores hay que practicar cosas parecidas" or something arround those lines, try to translate if you don't know spanish) It's hard to FC a song with FL, in some way, but in the other way it's easy to do it.
I wasnt acctualy answer to you comment, at least not in the final part, I was explaining mi argument to the peaple that don't fully understan it. Thats why it's separete it, the explation part from the answer part. And I have to thank you a lot Abraker, for all of your questions and complaining (Or idk how to say it in a more kindly way) of mi post! Disscuse with you make me thinking a lot more of the topic.
btw it's spelled "hypocrisy"
Topic Starter
thanksSaltssaumure wrote:
btw it's spelled "hypocrisy"
The experience you should bring in such a discussion doesn't essentially require to be a 50k playcount player and that you spend hours over hours with playing said mods but it is the amount of feedback, of numbers, comparisons and researches you have in total. That can happen by other players as well, you brought up one example and.. that's it. And I don't see anyone recalling that problem nor that this has been brought up before to be a critical problem in the leaderboards.Darkan996 wrote:
The experience that I have with FL it's 0. But, even so, tell me why I need experience with FL when Im talking to change the mulpt of it?Stefan wrote:
And by all honesty, I don't think you can provide enough experience to carry the complaint towards Flashlight mod.
So like what are you even trying to argue. That FL is memorization/takes no skill? That the score multipliers (which are ancient) are inbalanced because FL is actually easier than HR? Or that PP doesn't rate FL correctly, because HR is getting higher multipliers than FL despite FL being harder?
As for the whole FL not really being a skill thing:
Go play this with FL https://osu.ppy.sh/s/320118 and come back when you're done. It's only a 1:10 minute map, so should be quick to memorize the position of all the notes, and after that you have learned the map and it takes no more skill to FC with FL right?
Or try placing a bunch of different things in front of you on the table, then close your eyes, then try to grab a specific thing. You'll probably move your hand in the general direction of the thing you want to grab, and you might feel out a bit to confirm that you're able to grab it, maybe adjust your hand a bit to the left or right?
The same thing happens when you play FL. It's not just knowing where the notes are; it's also being able to recall all of the notes in succession right after each other before the note has to be hit, and actually being able to execute these motions in the dark based on possibly slightly flawed/inaccurate memory. Remembering a star pattern in the top right corner slightly tilted is one thing; knowing that the 4th note of said star is on osu!pixel 560;18 and move your cursor to that specific point (and not, say, 565;23) is another.
As for the whole FL not really being a skill thing:
Go play this with FL https://osu.ppy.sh/s/320118 and come back when you're done. It's only a 1:10 minute map, so should be quick to memorize the position of all the notes, and after that you have learned the map and it takes no more skill to FC with FL right?
Or try placing a bunch of different things in front of you on the table, then close your eyes, then try to grab a specific thing. You'll probably move your hand in the general direction of the thing you want to grab, and you might feel out a bit to confirm that you're able to grab it, maybe adjust your hand a bit to the left or right?
The same thing happens when you play FL. It's not just knowing where the notes are; it's also being able to recall all of the notes in succession right after each other before the note has to be hit, and actually being able to execute these motions in the dark based on possibly slightly flawed/inaccurate memory. Remembering a star pattern in the top right corner slightly tilted is one thing; knowing that the 4th note of said star is on osu!pixel 560;18 and move your cursor to that specific point (and not, say, 565;23) is another.
Topic Starter
The argue is this: FL despite having a higher multp than HR gives you less PP than HR. This shouldn't happend becouse it's anti-intuitive to the player, "Why if im playing with a mod wich has higher multp it gives me less PP? wtf" That's what a player should think when he realize that problem. The solutions are a lot, low the multp of FL, rate FL higher than HR and anothers. The problem here it's if you rate FL like you will rate DT (Wich should be if we take in account only multp) the system will broke even more, becouse i could just memorize a 4 star song and have 280pp or more. So my solution will be lower the multp of FL.CXu wrote:
So like what are you even trying to argue. That FL is memorization/takes no skill? That the score multipliers (which are ancient) are inbalanced because FL is actually easier than HR? Or that PP doesn't rate FL correctly, because HR is getting higher multipliers than FL despite FL being harder?
CXu wrote:
As for the whole FL not really being a skill thing:
Go play this with FL https://osu.ppy.sh/s/320118 and come back when you're done. It's only a 1:10 minute map, so should be quick to memorize the position of all the notes, and after that you have learned the map and it takes no more skill to FC with FL right?
Or try placing a bunch of different things in front of you on the table, then close your eyes, then try to grab a specific thing. You'll probably move your hand in the general direction of the thing you want to grab, and you might feel out a bit to confirm that you're able to grab it, maybe adjust your hand a bit to the left or right?
The same thing happens when you play FL. It's not just knowing where the notes are; it's also being able to recall all of the notes in succession right after each other before the note has to be hit, and actually being able to execute these motions in the dark based on possibly slightly flawed/inaccurate memory. Remembering a star pattern in the top right corner slightly tilted is one thing; knowing that the 4th note of said star is on osu!pixel 560;18 and move your cursor to that specific point (and not, say, 565;23) is another.
I can't even FC that withouth FL, so maybe in a couple of months. I have said in the post a couple of times that for me FL it's one of the hardest mods, and I have said that it's also an easyer mod than the rest of the others. I wil now copy and paste a comment of my own that explain my argument pretty well: "The argument is base in the fact that you don't necesarry be good at the game of a hole to FC a map with FL, if you can easily FC the song with no mod, or HD, if you tried times enough you will FC with FL. It's easy, but it's possible, here's comes the controversy, it's hard to FC it, but then why I said it was easy? Well I said it was "Easier in some way" If you don't have the skill enough In the game itself you will have to play a lot's of tries into the map to FC it with DT, for example. But when talking about FL, you don't need to have overall skill in the game, you need skill with FL and with that song, that's becouse FL is such an selfish mode, that has his own skill in diference for DT and HR wich they both have simillar skill It's hard to FC a song with FL, in some way, but in the other way it's easy to do it." Even if I play with FL all my life, I never would be able to FC a map with FL in the first try, becouse you don't need skill with FL to FC it you need memorize the map (some maps are easyer than other with FL, don't take the quote literaly) I (a noob 31k player) can beat you (the 39# rank player in the world) in a 1vs1 with the only map that I play with FL(+EZ) if it's you first try on it.
I have said a lot's of time that it's a hard mod, but in another way it's easy to. I explain myself bad a lot of times arround the post, becouse I only said "easy" for being lazy.
Even so I understand that it's not a easy thing play jumps maps with FL, but it's easyer than playing with DT, (the other mod with x0.12 multp) and it's a disscucion if it's easyer or harder than HR. The thing is, if you can FC no title 6.6 star diff, if you trie enough you can fc it with FL, but even if you tried enough times, it will take you more than FL to FC it with HR.
psd: I acctually cannot believe that im talking to the player that I see his replays on "GRANDOREO Can do HDHR 100%acc" all the time lol.
I don't realy understand you, can you trie to explain better? Im not that good in english.Stefan wrote:
The experience that I have with FL it's 0. But, even so, tell me why I need experience with FL when Im talking to change the mulpt of it?Darkan996 wrote:
And by all honesty, I don't think you can provide enough experience to carry the complaint towards Flashlight mod
The experience you should bring in such a discussion doesn't essentially require to be a 50k playcount player and that you spend hours over hours with playing said mods but it is the amount of feedback, of numbers, comparisons and researches you have in total. That can happen by other players as well, you brought up one example and.. that's it. And I don't see anyone recalling that problem nor that this has been brought up before to be a critical problem in the leaderboards.
idk why to.Trapmaniac wrote:
I'm shocked this isn't locked yet
Thanks to all for your comments, Im wating for the answers!!
Lul bs considering you are having a fine time replying to others. Utter BS when you consider you replied to THIS VERY THING in a previous post which you seem to agreed to here.Darkan996 wrote:
I don't realy understand you, can you trie to explain better? Im not that good in english.
Let's get this locked. I'm done
Topic Starter
I miss quote xd, know it's right.abraker wrote:
Lul bs considering you are having a fine time replying to others. Utter BS when you consider you replied to THIS VERY THING in a previous post which you seem to agreed to here.Darkan996 wrote:
I don't realy understand you, can you trie to explain better? Im not that good in english.
Let's get this locked. I'm done
Bro stop complaining and play the game lil bi CH y LmaoooaooaooOoOOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOOOOOooOoOOOOooOOoOoOOO
Topic Starter
I just trying to make a better game for all of the players.juliancala wrote:
Bro stop complaining and play the game lil bi CH y LmaoooaooaooOoOOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOOOOOooOoOOOOooOOoOoOOO
L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:
Trapmaniac wrote:
I'm shocked this isn't locked yet
Big brain modeDarkan996 wrote:
I just trying to make a better game for all of the players.juliancala wrote:
Bro stop complaining and play the game lil bi CH y LmaoooaooaooOoOOOOoOOOoOOOoOOOOOOOooOoOOOOooOOoOoOOO
L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:
Trapmaniac wrote:
I'm shocked this isn't locked yet
The third grader that tells everyone else that they're shit at X subject, meanwhile, has lowest grade in the class
Darkan996 wrote:
I can't even FC that withouth FL, so maybe in a couple months.
baka pls
I'm not a dedicated FL player, but I kind of get your arguments. But before the explaining my opinion as player about FL, let's mention you the following facts:
I'm clearly sure that initially, those multipliers were like that since 2007's times in which osu! was published. In those times, there was no pp system at all ... ladder-boards were just about the highest possible score you can archive in a map. PP systems were then aplicated later... the very first version of PP had some irregularities like playing a 4 mod [Easy] and doing TOP 1 + SS did end in giving you more pp than playing an insane SS nomod map with just a #800's position.
Now then, in PPv2, they nerfed massively the use of FL and its pp efficiency at making it the least efficient mod for pp goals. 98% FL FC is like a SS HD play in many cases... still, FL has a growing bonus that scales pretty well with combo length which in VERY LONG MAPS is even stronger than HR's bonus. But yea, in none of the cases it's worth the effort for the pp.
Now talking about the FL in overall, to decide which map to FL you have to find a pattern that are extremely comfortable for you, this is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing when picking a map for FL specially if you're not a dedicated player to FL. If you pick right the map, you can do a FC in less than even 30 tries because you only used reaction and memorized really few parts to do such FC. For example I was capable to almost FC in a first try this one then took me not that many tries to SS. I can tell you I can ply this map in multiplayer using FL and doing a 98% acc close FC not because of memorisation, just because of my natural sight read and reaction.
But, PPv2 and Score System are VERY far away each other, each one are like 7 years of difference between their additions and there is no real relation between each other.
Andi if you question me, if someone really likes a lot a map and wants to +350 tries to FL FC / FL SS he's free to do it for PP, after all "FL farming" is the least efficient of all. And yep, FL skills increases the more you use FL not just in the map you memorized. FL skills / memory are both trainable; also it's completely worthless in tournaments same as with EZ mod which is a excelent reason why both mods are not pp efficient.
I'm clearly sure that initially, those multipliers were like that since 2007's times in which osu! was published. In those times, there was no pp system at all ... ladder-boards were just about the highest possible score you can archive in a map. PP systems were then aplicated later... the very first version of PP had some irregularities like playing a 4 mod [Easy] and doing TOP 1 + SS did end in giving you more pp than playing an insane SS nomod map with just a #800's position.
Now then, in PPv2, they nerfed massively the use of FL and its pp efficiency at making it the least efficient mod for pp goals. 98% FL FC is like a SS HD play in many cases... still, FL has a growing bonus that scales pretty well with combo length which in VERY LONG MAPS is even stronger than HR's bonus. But yea, in none of the cases it's worth the effort for the pp.
Now talking about the FL in overall, to decide which map to FL you have to find a pattern that are extremely comfortable for you, this is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing when picking a map for FL specially if you're not a dedicated player to FL. If you pick right the map, you can do a FC in less than even 30 tries because you only used reaction and memorized really few parts to do such FC. For example I was capable to almost FC in a first try this one then took me not that many tries to SS. I can tell you I can ply this map in multiplayer using FL and doing a 98% acc close FC not because of memorisation, just because of my natural sight read and reaction.
But, PPv2 and Score System are VERY far away each other, each one are like 7 years of difference between their additions and there is no real relation between each other.
Andi if you question me, if someone really likes a lot a map and wants to +350 tries to FL FC / FL SS he's free to do it for PP, after all "FL farming" is the least efficient of all. And yep, FL skills increases the more you use FL not just in the map you memorized. FL skills / memory are both trainable; also it's completely worthless in tournaments same as with EZ mod which is a excelent reason why both mods are not pp efficient.
crying because of complaining about the FL mod and you don't even have a FL score
Topic Starter
And this is why FL is kinda broken. https://osu.ppy.sh/u/FGsky 850pp with 4000 tries, its seem fair for you guys?
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolDarkan996 wrote:
And this is why FL is kinda broken. https://osu.ppy.sh/u/FGsky 850pp with 4000 tries, its seem fair for you guys?
Edit: I'm wrong.
Topic Starter
He didnt use touchscreen i think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3geGk_JMZkTanomoshii Nekojou wrote:
that's not just an FL mod topic. that's also a touchscreen play topic.Darkan996 wrote:
And this is why FL is kinda broken. https://osu.ppy.sh/u/FGsky 850pp with 4000 tries, its seem fair for you guys?
If this just changes the multiplier of the FL mod, I'll support this. If you're talking about deleting the whole mod instead, I'm out. Since you already delete the part of "eliminate FL mod" from the post, I'll give this a vote. Nerfing FL is a good point but deleting it is a no
Oh and yeah, don't go out of your way saying FL player is an unskilled player or something. It actually the other way around. Memorizing isn't something I support nor hate but a lot of FL player is a pro player who also masters other mod such as HD, HR, and DT. Saying an FL player unskilled is an insult to this pro player. Player like Accurian, Jeby, and many more play FL a lot
Oh and yeah, don't go out of your way saying FL player is an unskilled player or something. It actually the other way around. Memorizing isn't something I support nor hate but a lot of FL player is a pro player who also masters other mod such as HD, HR, and DT. Saying an FL player unskilled is an insult to this pro player. Player like Accurian, Jeby, and many more play FL a lot
First get a bit more experience with FL. Nerfing means decreasing multiplier because it is easy and should not be worth as much. Play FL until you can FL 4* maps and see how easy it is.DatOssas wrote:
If this just changes the multiplier of the FL mod, I'll support this. Nerfing FL is a good point...
edit:
ok...
It would make sense to take the number of plays a player has on beatmap into account of pp/score calculation (this took about 4k retries to pull off), but then players would practice it offline. I get you can grind to get these ridiculous numbers, but there is a reason we don't see many of these high pp grinds. The time you spend on one map is time lost improving your skill on others. You are still loosing out here. You will reset skill wise once you go onto the next map and then reset again. It can drive someone insane retrying the same thing over 4000 times. Unless you are doing it for the lolz, memes, and record with 200+ people watching you, you are not going to waste so much time on one map. It's not practical.
Really? lol the play is too good I thought it's a another touchscreen play. I apologize.Darkan996 wrote:
He didnt use touchscreen i think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3geGk_JMZk
But I still think that player deserves the pp because FL is a 'very hard to master' mod.