Desperate-kun wrote:

Just because something's rankable doesn't mean it's good.

every single person has it's own opinion on what's good and what's not.
if it's rankeable then it can be considered good enough, otherwise it wouldn't be rankeable.

Desperate-kun wrote:

Rankability won't help you if none of the BNs is willing to nominate the map.

it's too early to assume that none of the BNs is willing to nominate the map.

Desperate-kun wrote:

And even if you'll find them, other BNs can still veto the nomination if they think it's reasonable to do so.

this is the 1st time a veto was ever mentioned in this thread. even people who disagreed with me wished me good luck, i appreciate their effort and i respect their decision.
whatever happens after i get a bubble, i will handle the situation the same way i'm handling so far.

Desperate-kun wrote:

The fact that you're not really able to convince anyone of your decision even with much effort spent shows that your argument is pretty unreasonable.

I'm still the only one stating facts, the sources i used are official, the people against are basically complaining because it's unusual/ they don't like my style of custom hitsounding.

Desperate-kun wrote:

Slider ticks are meant to represent (usually weaker) beats in the song.

what you think that they are meant to represent is still your personal opinion/taste.

Desperate-kun wrote:

Sometimes it's not necessary to ensure that each one has an audible sound attached to it (for example if one section of the song has very few beats so that slider ticks land on nothing) which usually isn't problematic, but in your map almost every second slider tick is not landing on any audible sound so it's quite obviously a bad decision.

most of them actually lands on audible sounds, it's just that most don't seem interesting enough to custom hitsoud.
i don't even know why you guys are so bothered by this

is it the max combo? i already explained why it's not something that should be taken into consideration

people think they sound weird? not really because they are muted in the parts that i don't need them. if they don't like the parts i used custom then there is nothing i can do about it.

people think they look weird? anyone who is skilled enough to play an easy difficulty and get a decent combo, already saw them enough to decide if they are okay with how the slider tick looks or if they are going to quit the game because they don't like them, then i don't think so, and i'm okay with using a skin element to replace the slider tick if necessary.

people think they play weird?if the player is not fast enough to reach the slider tick, then he is not fast enough to reach the slider end, so he should be playing easier difficulties.
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players might notice the difference but they don't really care about slider tick rate.
the relevant settings and statistics for them are:


so far i explained the best i could why the usage of tick 4 in this song is not a bad thing, why i need it this way and why the optional ways are not going to improve the quality of my map or at least keep the same quality (they would actually reduce it).

from my perspective, it looks like i'm dealing with people who don't hesitate to force me to limit my creativity in order to prevent me from using a setting that is not used often nowadays. i already proved with facts that what i'm doing is not going to negatively affect my beatmap at all.

i'm basically ignoring a few guidelines at most, but you guys are almost reacting like this was a song containing offensive lyrics, variable bpm poorly timed, with a lot of unsnapped objects and with more difficulties by a guest mapper than the actual map creator.

never mind

Slider-tick's are a passive hitsound. They play exactly on time, unlike slider/circle heads which are based off when you actually "hit" them.

Why not use storyboarded hitsounds instead of slider-tick hitsounds then? It's the same effect. You get a sound to play at a specific point in time without having to do slidertick hitsounding.

so far i explained the best i could why the usage of tick 4 in this song is not a bad thing, why i need it this way and why the optional ways are not going to improve the quality of my map or at least keep the same quality (they would actually reduce it).

I can't see it decreasing the map's quality, objectively speaking

from my perspective, it looks like i'm dealing with people who don't hesitate to force me to limit my creativity in order to prevent me from using a setting that is not used often nowadays. i already proved with facts that what i'm doing is not going to negatively affect my beatmap at all.

You haven't stated them as facts really, just what you were trying to do. Basically they only here the hitsounds if they hit the ticks you could legit just add them in the mp3 via audacity if you were so bothered; but then you'd realise how stupid it actually is.

Also why do you keep bringing up creativity? This isn't an attempt at being creative just adding sounds in places that aren't part of your rhythms.

Also also, you talk about bring up the topic of creativity and how placing active hitsounds on passive objects adds to that yet the rhythm you've limited your ownself with the rhythms you've used. Eg 01:47:635 (1,2,3) - and 01:48:317 (5,6,7) - are triplets despite the song having a double at 01:47:635 (1) - and there being absolutely no sound at 01:48:431 (6) . Oh and a triplet at 01:48:772 (1) though this is mapped as a 1/2 for reasons im not too sure . You mapped these for a generic style rhythm when you could have had a much more interesting one but fallback to your hitsounding for creativity???
[]There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot
[]This is the first (and probs) the last time I'll reply to someone quoting them this way. I hope you feel special ~

Monstrata wrote:

Slider-tick's are a passive hitsound.

they work the same way as repeats and slider ends, repeats and slider ends are treated with the same importance as circles and slider heads on hitsounding, so the slider ticks are fine having the same treatment (they already have, beatmaps get ranked with slider tick with strong sounds)

Monstrata wrote:

They play exactly on time, unlike slider/circle heads which are based off when you actually "hit" them.

you can still hit the slider ticks if you miss the slider head/tail. you can also hit them as they were circles, the gap between the slider ticks doesn't needs to be hold/hit, but it doesn't makes sense because it's easier to just hold.
a good comparission would be playing a shooter game with a gun that shoots automatically but can also be adjusted to shoot manually.

Monstrata wrote:

Why not use storyboarded hitsounds instead of slider-tick hitsounds then? It's the same effect.

because it has bad side effects that slider ticks don't.

Monstrata wrote:

You get a sound to play at a specific point in time without having to do slidertick hitsounding.

the ranking criteria sugests mappers to avoid using storyboarded hitsounds.

this guideline in particular seems to be treated like "only use it if you really don't have another option" it's definitely one of the guidelines that are most encouraged to be followed.
unlike the custom slider tick guideline that is more like "use it if you at least know what you are doing" and it's one of the most ignored guidelines already.

i have a lot of custom slider ticks, so it's not good to replace them for storyboarded sounds because we are told to avoid using them.

(bad)side effects of using sb'ed sounds:

1)the sound will be played even if the player misses the note (unlike slider ticks).
2)can't be disabled, "ignore beatmap hitsounds" and "disable storyboard" doesn't work for sb'ed hitsounds.
so players with custom skin hitsounds will still hear them (unlike slider ticks).
3)even if the player don't disable anything and play with default skin, the sound will be confusing during taiko play,
because the default sounds for taiko mode are different (unlike slider ticks). (my map will be played in taiko mode)

side effects of using custom slider ticks:
1)none?

Kisses wrote:

I can't see it decreasing the map's quality, objectively speaking

remapping in a way that it would fit the hitsouds, would result on a lot of extra streams/triplets, and they wouldn't provide the gameplay i wanted...already explained before.

Kisses wrote:

You haven't stated them as facts really, just what you were trying to do.

i did what i wanted to do and proved that everything i did is rankeable mentioning what's written in the ranking criteria, doesn't gets more clear than that.
anyone can check by themselves.

https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Criteria/osu!
https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Criteria/

Kisses wrote:

Basically they only here the hitsounds if they hit the ticks you could legit just add them in the mp3 via audacity if you were so bothered; but then you'd realise how stupid it actually is.

no need to create fairy tales, i'm not trying to mock anyone's preference, i just want my preferences to be taken more seriously.

Kisses wrote:

Also why do you keep bringing up creativity? This isn't an attempt at being creative just adding sounds in places that aren't part of your rhythms.

no need to change the topic
most mappers don't put as much effort on hitsounds as i did, most of them only do the basic.
it's okay if you think my hitsounds are not creative anyway.

Kisses wrote:

Also also, you talk about bring up the topic of creativity and how placing active hitsounds on passive objects adds to that yet the rhythm you've limited your ownself with the rhythms you've used. Eg 01:47:635 (1,2,3) - and 01:48:317 (5,6,7) - are triplets despite the song having a double at 01:47:635 (1) - and there being absolutely no sound at 01:48:431 (6) . Oh and a triplet at 01:48:772 (1) though this is mapped as a 1/2 for reasons im not too sure . You mapped these for a generic style rhythm when you could have had a much more interesting one but fallback to your hitsounding for creativity???

it's probably hopeless to get you or anyone else to teach me how to map at this point (7 years of osu!) but my map would be bubbled already if i agreed to change the tick rate earlier, so there is not much to say about my notes, actually.

Kisses wrote:

There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot

i modded a map a few weeks ago, the mapper was not using custom slider ticks, i suggested custom slider ticks, he didn't seem bothered and agreed imediately, none of the modders complained, the map got ranked already, didn't see anyone complaining about them later.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/647217 qualified by mosntrata (not that it makes any difference, actually)

Kisses wrote:

This is the first (and probs) the last time I'll reply to someone quoting them this way. I hope you feel special ~

thank you for your feedback

do you realize that guidelines are there to be evaluated on a case-by-casis basis
and that there is a handful of case-by-case-basis-evaluators posting on your map about your case and what they feel should happen with it
if RC was a strict guideline as you are trying to make it out to be it would be an automated process, but it's not
that's for a reason, there is a reason so many people are telling you to fix this, it's not because it's "creative", it's because they don't feel it belongs in the ranked category of maps

either way it's not looking like you'll convince anyone, why don't you just try to understand where the others are coming from?

since you are not a nominator i'll assume you are here because you like my map and want it ranked asap.
please be a bit patient, i also wanted this ranked asap but not at the cost of ruining things that i am proud of doing in my mapset.

what you mentioned i already know, but thanks for showing interest and i appreciate your support.

i think what Tess wants here is for you to stop deliberately ignoring the point of all this discussion

rankable != good, and if you keep on driving away nominators because you're unwilling to look at this map from any other point of view, it won't matter how rankable the map is since nobody will want to icon it

i'm just defending my creation being as much polite as i should, and the discussion is not over.

of course i want your map to be ranked, that's why i'm telling you to listen to the advice you've been given
tho, i'm mostly here cause nominators are tearing their hair out at your stubbornness and i felt the urge to drop my 2 cents

i'm glad i was right about you.

i'm the one to be stressed in this situation because i have to deal with everyone, but i'm actually not.

the discussion is not over, we will see.

Here's a long overdue return favor for your M4M 2 months back

00:00:818 It would be more interesting to place these circles in different spots rather than stacking.
00:06:272 Same here.
00:12:409 Maybe add more circles or change this one to a slider or spinner to fill the empty spot after it?
00:17:863 (4) Suddenly stacking these two after the previous two circles feels unnatural.
01:11:953 (2) I'd raise this vertically a little more to make the progression from circles 1 to 3 more visually appealing.
03:13:090 (2) It also looks visually unappealing to have the sliders overlap like this. I'd try and make them blanket each other instead.
03:17:408 (4) Same here.
05:03:090 (1) I'd get rid of the new combo here and apply it to the slider right afterward.

Thank you, will check asap



And seems like i will need to use a different approach to make you guys understand my point of view.

I'm pretty sure it will work better.

Stay tuned

Behonkiss wrote:

Here's a long overdue return favor for your M4M 2 months back
(i have to admit that i was really mad at you because didn't look like you were going to honor our deal lol.
i wanted some feedback from veteran mappers before finding bn's. unfortunately there are not many of them available for now but at least i got you and another veteran to check this map )

00:00:818 It would be more interesting to place these circles in different spots rather than stacking. (i mapped the intro using a "boring" style intentionally, i wanted it to feel outdated)
00:06:272 Same here. (^)
00:12:409 Maybe add more circles or change this one to a slider or spinner to fill the empty spot after it? (the piano is no longer present and thre is no other instrument to follow starting here, the long background sound started way earlier so i can't follow it)
00:17:863 (4) Suddenly stacking these two after the previous two circles feels unnatural. (i disagree, they are the same sounds so it makes sense to stack, i didn't do the same on other similar parts because i wanted some variation)
01:11:953 (2) I'd raise this vertically a little more to make the progression from circles 1 to 3 more visually appealing. (i will move the previous note by a few pixels so the curve on 123 will be more compatible with the curve on 234)
03:13:090 (2) It also looks visually unappealing to have the sliders overlap like this. I'd try and make them blanket each other instead. (i like them )
03:17:408 (4) Same here. (^)
05:03:090 (1) I'd get rid of the new combo here and apply it to the slider right afterward. (the flute starts here so i can't do this)

thank you for your help

Well, I tried to be helpful. The storyboarded hitsound guideline is largely ignored. THe only important thing is setting the volume to be lower than the regular clap/whistle/etc... volume if you are putting the storyboarded hitsound in a location where there is no object (A gap in between two objects). Other than that there is no drawback that I'm aware of, as someone who has used storyboarded hitsounds for pretty much the same reason you're currently using slider-tick hitsounding. You can refer to the Normal and Hard on https://osu.ppy.sh/s/608723 where it's not possible to keysound every piano note on the map without causing the note density to be too high for the difficulty. (Song is full 1/2 piano rhythms, but obviously you can't map them all on Normal or Hard).

Monstrata wrote:

Well, I tried to be helpful.

and I am very thankful for you and everyone trying to help me.

Monstrata wrote:

The storyboarded hitsound guideline is largely ignored.

It's okay if it's ignored if the map was made in a way that there is no better option (slider ticks, in the case of my map), it's a guideline after all.

Monstrata wrote:

THe only important thing is setting the volume to be lower than the regular clap/whistle/etc... volume if you are putting the storyboarded hitsound in a location where there is no object (A gap in between two objects). Other than that there is no drawback that I'm aware of, as someone who has used storyboarded hitsounds for pretty much the same reason you're currently using slider-tick hitsounding. You can refer to the Normal and Hard on https://osu.ppy.sh/s/608723 where it's not possible to keysound every piano note on the map without causing the note density to be too high for the difficulty. (Song is full 1/2 piano rhythms, but obviously you can't map them all on Normal or Hard).

yes i understand that you didn't had the options that i have in my map, i would never tell you to remap and to make them as slider ticks if i modded that map because the way you mapped is fine.

i'm just expecting the same treatment for my map, because i have better options than storyboard hitsounding, and i already explained why slider ticks are a better option than storyboarded hitsounds. (p/6349361 and p/6350854 for anyone who didn't see it yet)

Minha Nossa O.O

pq q aparece tanto BN pra falar da mesma coisa?

Slider tickrate at 4 used in order to allow the mapper to custom hitsound ticks that are on 1/4 snap...
I can't see why people are having so much trouble to understand something as simple as this. People did the same idea with high bpm maps and tick set on 2 to map consecutive 1/2 snare/kicks on 3/2 sliders. (in maps with simplified density rhythm ofc) .In this case it's the same concept applied to 1/4 sounds passivelly mapped with his rhythm, but instead of current percussion passive mapping (which would basically mean mapping reverses everywhere) he's doing an old melody rhythm map that uses custom tick hitsounding to add more to the experience.

Kisses wrote:

There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. So basically val0108 is a bad mapper,right... Please if you are not aware of something, at least do some research. Mapping slidertick. with custom was done A LOT, it's not a case of two maps that were overlooked.

Kisses wrote:

A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot A lot of people say that spacing 1/2 circles spaced everywhere in a song, mapping sliders that cover the entire screen with big sv, etc, are a bad idea, and yet, people still rank maps that do so. It's just the matter of making a mapping decision and check if that decision can be ranked or not.

Did anyone provide a solid reason what are the disadvantages about TR4? Yeah, saying "it doesn't fit" and "it doesn't make sense" and "just use storyboard hitsounds" may be called but the mapper didn't randomly choose it.

Using storyboarded hitsounds would be hella stupid to people who prefer to play with their own hitsounds or disable the storyboard - causing something is missing/being off. I mean it'd also be silly to the taiko convert but this is less relevant. As well I see no reason how TR4 is bad compared to TR2/1. Yes, TR2 would have the same effect like TR4 except of these certain parts that are in question but because TR4 wouldn't be much different than TR2 I don't see how you guys try to convince the mapper that TR4 is a bad choice. Especially since I haven't heard anything valueable that is a solid reason to refrain from TR4.

It's not about the tickrate specifically it's about the hitsounding, for me anyways

i don't need to "convince anyone", people who can think for themselves are not seeing any problem in the way i made hitsounds.
i'm pretty sure there is a lot more people who agree with me but they will not join the discussion to defend me for obvious reasons.

Net0 wrote:

Slider tickrate at 4 used in order to allow the mapper to custom hitsound ticks that are on 1/4 snap...
I can't see why people are having so much trouble to understand something as simple as this. People did the same idea with high bpm maps and tick set on 2 to map consecutive 1/2 snare/kicks on 3/2 sliders. (in maps with simplified density rhythm ofc) .In this case it's the same concept applied to 1/4 sounds passivelly mapped with his rhythm, but instead of current percussion passive mapping (which would basically mean mapping reverses everywhere) he's doing an old melody rhythm map that uses custom tick hitsounding to add more to the experience.

Kisses wrote:

There have only been 2 instances that I'm aware of that have been ranked with slidertick hitsounds. They were both seen as bad but BNs passed them because the were the lower diff in the sets and either the BNs didn't fully check them or didn't care enough. So basically val0108 is a bad mapper,right... Please if you are not aware of something, at least do some research. Mapping slidertick. with custom was done A LOT, it's not a case of two maps that were overlooked.

Kisses wrote:

A lot of people think it's stupid so yeah, I think that says a lot A lot of people say that spacing 1/2 circles spaced everywhere in a song, mapping sliders that cover the entire screen with big sv, etc, are a bad idea, and yet, people still rank maps that do so. It's just the matter of making a mapping decision and check if that decision can be ranked or not.

Stefan wrote:

Did anyone provide a solid reason what are the disadvantages about TR4? Yeah, saying "it doesn't fit" and "it doesn't make sense" and "just use storyboard hitsounds" may be called but the mapper didn't randomly choose it.

Using storyboarded hitsounds would be hella stupid to people who prefer to play with their own hitsounds or disable the storyboard - causing something is missing/being off. I mean it'd also be silly to the taiko convert but this is less relevant. As well I see no reason how TR4 is bad compared to TR2/1. Yes, TR2 would have the same effect like TR4 except of these certain parts that are in question but because TR4 wouldn't be much different than TR2 I don't see how you guys try to convince the mapper that TR4 is a bad choice. Especially since I haven't heard anything valueable that is a solid reason to refrain from TR4.

thank you guys, appreciate your support

Kisses wrote:

It's not about the tickrate specifically it's about the hitsounding, for me anyways

i'm not happy to hear that my hitsounds didn't sound good enough for you, but i can't make everyone happy.

as far as i remember, i didn't add any custom hitsound to "overmap" any part of the song, all my hitsounds are following something in the music, but if you suggest me different custom hitsound files or even new ideas maybe we can get to an agreement.
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i know i'm taking too long to post an "update" about this map, but i will have something done eventually

stay tuned

If you still need mods pimpG I can mod this later on. Best of luck o/

Two cents here.

As long as it has a purpose it's fine. He's not using it to purposely make the combo higher, he's using it to help make his mapping fit the song better.

There's a slight tick noise in the back of the chorus anyway if you listen, so it actually works.

It's just a guideline, and as we see time and time again, they can be broken if done right. And this is clearly done right, and well at that.

If you want a re-chek (with a special live modding xD) just call me

In my stream, i listened carefully all hitsound about the map, and the reason of tick 4 is just for the best way to follow the music through hitsounds

tick rate 4 is like (all beats will have a sample, all beat will have a purpose)

its simple to understand(if i can, anyone can)

idk why people don't understand something that's so explicit.

--

boa sorte pimpg, sinceramente eu fico triste em ver voce passando por todo esse bocado desnecessario só porque algumas pessoas não querem procurar algo a fundo e só querem o obvio...

You don't need slider tick 4. If you want sound on non-tick position, use delayed hitsounds technique.

For example, a sound on 1/4 beat after a note, use wav file with 114ms delay added to the beginning. However, it will sounds off if player doesn't hit a note at the correct timing. You can instead put sound on the end of previous slider's end or repeater, add enough delay to make it sounds at the position you want. Ex 01:16:044 (4) - wav file will need 2/1 (909ms) delay. It will not sound off, but the file size will be bigger (up to the length of delay).

You can use Audacity to edit wav files. Add delay by go to Generate > Silence.

@Net0 sure, i'll find you later for an irc mod.

@Veridian yeah, that was accurate xD. appreciate your support

@Ataraxia thank you ^^. btw i barely made changes since you modded last time so no need to recheck my map, but thanks.

@DJPop interesting, i'll consider this the 2nd option, thanks
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since no one is paying attention to what i say, at least pay attention to what God-tier mappers and former MAT/BAT have to say
bolded the most relevant parts of the chat logs













for those who don't know, MAT was the equivalent to the tier 1 BN (could only bubble maps, not rank them, they all had different tone of pink color name)
BAT was the equivalent to the tier 2 BN (could do what the MAT's did, and also rank maps, they all had different tone of red color name)

and at some point the status of a BAT was basically the same as a QAT+GMT, basically admins that also handle beatmap rank process

the standards for joining MAT and BAT were much higher than what it is nowadays to join the BN. so it's safe to assume that if the veterans were still around handling beatmap ranking process, many of the current members of the BN would not even be accepted as BN...

the only ones that never been part of the MAT or BAT are Saten and val0108, but they are both god tier mappers, they just were not interested in handling beatmap ranking process.

spboxer3 still prefer SB'ed sounds but my map is still worth a bubble for him. everyone else seems to be totally okay with tick rate 4
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Until this day, slider tick rate has been used in different ways depending on the map/mapper's needs. for exemple, mappers often use them to make slider changes more noticeable, especially when they try to make a slider with higher length to have similar size as a shorter length slider, similar to new combo for SV changes.
There is also some mappers who simply don't like slider ticks, so in the past, when it was available, they ranked their maps with slider tick rate 0.5 making slider ticks appear only after two beats instead of every 1/1 beat with str1.

i wish i could find more beatmaps using str above 2 and custom slider ticks but unfortunately they are very difficult find because tick rate is not a setting that can be searched like "od=9" "ar=10" (but that also shows how "irrelevant" this setting is, changing the AR OD CS HP by 1 have much more significant impact on gameplay than changing the slider tick rate)

so let's just imagine a map that has 1/3 rhythm, the "correct" slider tick rate would be 3, right?
WRONG .... most of the 1/3 songs don't have that many sounds landing on 1/3 ticks, usually only 40%~70% of the song supports str3 but no one complains about str3 if the mapper decides to use str3. music using 1/3 rhythm are minority, so if they can't use str3 on songs using 1/3 rhythm then where are they going to use? meanwhile, music with 1/4 rhythm are majority, but people usually go for 1/1 because they don't like slider ticks, or because they don't want slider ticks for the parts without 1/4 sounds (even knowing that silencing slider ticks are rankeable, they might just not want to have to mess with green lines), or they simply would want to map the parts where the slider ticks could be used.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/14624 that James map i showed to everyone is a good exemple. str3 was used only in normal, because he needed it there, and decided to mess with green lines to silence the parts that he didn't want to hear the ticks. James did not used str3 on the harder difficulty, even knowing that it was very fitting, the sounds he thought that are important were mapped normally, and instead, he used slider tick rate 0,5?
He simply don't like slider ticks, only used for normal because it was necessary and he knew that slider tick rate is to be used according to his own needs.

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/81060 why didn't DJPop used slider tick rate 3 on his normal? if slider tick rate is something that's supposed to be fitting the song then he might have made a mistake on his normal or on the harder diffs? and what about the max combo? normal have much smaller max combo than the higher diffs, max combo is an issue, right? NO... if he decided that str1 is more fitting for his normal then taking the combo in consideration would be stupid.
btw i have nothing but respect for DJPop and Winter Bells is my favorite Christmas map of all times, and one of my favorites maps in general, but to be honest, when i think about it, str3 doesn't really sounds that great for the most part of the song, he and CDFA needed str3 for their custom hitsounds on "Hard" and "CDFA's difficulty" but the insane doesn't have the same spots with custom slider ticks, he could have used slider tick rate 1 if he wanted, but he didn't so it's fine.

Slider tick rate 0,5 was removed from the editor ages ago, now it can only be activated editing the .osu file, so using str0,5 is discouraged (or unrankeable?) but slider tick rate 4 and 3 are still usable in the editor, that means higher tick rate is not discouraged.

slider tick rate can not be changed, we can only use one slider tick rate per difficulty, and it's not like it was not a feature that was requested before t/47451&start=0
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=4694&hilit=slider+tick+rate
it's been 9 years....if the Developers wanted to add this feature then it would be added already. why do you think that silencing slider ticks is rankeable?

conclusion: slider tick rate can be whatever the map/mapper needs/wants as long as it makes at least one little bit of sense.

i'm not using slider tick rate 4 because i think it's superior to the other tick rates, it's just because it's necessary.
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a lot of people were trying to convince me that sb'ed sounds are superior to slider tick hitsouds, and some people even mock me for relying so much on the ranking criteria. if the ranking criteria is not important, then why is the staff wasting their time improving it constantly?

yes, i know it's relatively easy to make a rankeable mapset, the ranking criteria is actually very easy to be followed. but why the staff keep it so easy to be followed? because it's to force mappers to keep using the "fundamentals" while not limiting their creativity.
limiting creativity is exactly what's happening here.

by "creativity" i don't mean that what i'm doing is innovative, james and djpop already did that before me, and probably a lot more people did that too, but this is still something that is at least very unusual for nowadays, that is clearly rankeable, and i did it very well. but instead of being praised for making good use of an unusual mapping technique, i'm only getting negative comments and being suggested to only do "more of the same".

ur method of persuasion is bad honestlyyyyyyyy
wouldnt say slider tickrate 4 is bad for the map but it definitely isnt ur best option Tbh



wots actually bad is ur ncing please REMOVEEEEE ALL BLUE TICK NCS P L E A S E WTF

reminder: anyone interested in joining the discussion at least bring valid arguments, only saying that you don't agree with something without valid arguments makes your opinion meaningless.

Hello.

I assume you mean reasoning instead of arguments as saying you do not agree with something is an argument; however, as to what you think is a valid reason is questionable, and you may need to explain as to why the reason is invalid (for example, stating why the person's reason does not hold up).

The slider tick 4 that you currently have is fine I guess, but it is definitely not the best option that you have. Mapping them out and changing your hitsounding patterns is better mostly because you are trying to map to one thing while hitsounding to something completely different... that itself will confuse players in the first place!

May I ask, what is your definition of new comboing? From what I see, you may have a definition of new comboing which holds comboing in general at a low pedestal considering the colossal amount of inconsistencies and blue tick NCs



is this ok pimpGsenpai OwOwowowowo


- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\

you might think that what i say is questionable but it doesn't changes the fact that what i did is rankeable so everything is valid until someone proves otherwise, but no one explained why my stuff is not acceptable... you didn't even explain why you think what i say is questionable...

if slider tick rate 4 is fine, then it's fine. people is free to suggest whatever they want but the mapper decides what to do with the suggestions.
there is no need to worry about the players, if they miss notes it's their own fault for not being skilled enough, they just have to learn and adapt, there is nothing confusing about the way i mapped, and i don't see how keeping hitsound consistency could make players confused, if they miss it's their own fault, i mapped in a way that makes sense to the song, that's all that matters.

nowadays most of the maps are made to confuse players, actually. anyone that is too worried about the weaker players can simply map easy normal and a friendly hard. my map is a Marathon but it's clearly an Insane level (i will probably rename it to Lunatic next update), it's supposed to be a bit challenging, the difficulty is named "Lunatic" for a reason, my map is easier than the average Lunatic/Insane anyway.

the blue ticks are there to be mapped, the slider ticks are there to be customized or whatever, the settings are there to be used.

really, since when using new combos on blue ticks is a bad thing? you could possibly be the type of mapper that thinks that the only fitting spots to use new combos are on main beats, for all songs. you are the only one so far that's making this a big deal.
i use new combo where i think that it works better regardless of the color of the tick, i don't map the song thinking on the spots where i wiill use new combos or hitsounds so sometimes i find limitations to my new combo usage, i use shorter combos where it makes sense.

if my new combos bothers you that much then make a detailed new combo mod, i give you a more detailed explanation, and even if i don't fix anything i will give you kudosu.

Hello.

No. I said that what you consider a reason to be "valid" is questionable because you never explicitly stated what you define a "valid reason" to be... I never said that any of your statements are questionable, only what you consider an object to be defined as. Please do not put words into my mouth!

- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\

i wrote walls of text of valid arguments already in page 4 and a significant number of skilled mappers also were able to understand (and approve) what i did easily. while the people who are against me using slider tick rate 4 says nothing but "it's not good" "it's not fitting" "i don't like it" "just agree with the BN's already" i don't consider those valid arguments.

it's not good = that's subjective, everyone has it's own opinion on what's good or not.

it's not fitting = the song has 1/4 rhythm so it is fitting. i have a lot of ticks silenced because i don't need them, silencing ticks is rankeable and the developers show no interest of allowing beatmaps to have different slider tick rates per green line, and this was a feature that has been requested 9 years ago.

i don't like it = the beatmap was not made specifically to you, it's my map, i like it and other people will like it, i made sure that everything is rankeable.

you should just agree with the BN's = i don't need to reply to trolls or people who don't have their own opinion (but i still did).
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btw "best option" to map something does not exists, beatmapping is like expressing how you feel the song, everyone can have their own way to express their understanding of the song, this is how i feel about the song and that's it.

you already said that tick rate 4 is fine for you, and you don't look like you are going to make that detailed new combo mod, so we are probably done discussing.

thanks for the feedback

Hello.

You still did not define what a "valid" reason is to me... I haven't even replied to the other parts of my original post... I just want you to tell me what would make a reason "valid"...

- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\

that's the problem, everyone wants me to explain myself here because they don't understand their own position as modders in my beatmap.
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honestly, a mapper desn't even needs to provide valid arguments on why his stuff is acceptable as long as his stuff is rankeable (but i still did, and everything i say are valid arguments)

it's the modders "job" to explain why something rankeable (that also has been done before by other mappers) is not acceptable, and so far no one did that, i replied to everyone politely and they don't come back to continue the discussion...

everything is valid until proven otherwise.

Hello.

To clear up/specify my question, I am asking, "What would make a modder's reason valid?"

- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\

proving that their suggestions will benefit my map more than the current way i have mapped.

only saying that they don't like, doestn't looks fitting, or it's not good proves nothing.

Hello.

OK. We finally got that solved. Onto the next part of my original post.

When I meant by "slider tick 4 is fine, but definitely not the best option you have," I meant that regardless of if there is a best option or not, the possibility of "using slider tick 4" being (a/one of the) best option(s) here is 0% because there is still a better option which is better because it works much better at a fundamental scale, and this option is mapping to what you are basing your hitsounds on. Mappers are essentially the game developers in a sense, and they map for a target audience/skill level. If their target audience becomes confused at the patterning while they play it, then it probably is not a good choice to use such option for the sake of your target audience. My hypothesis is that your target audience will become confused because your rhythm patterning is much different to your hitsound patterning without any substantial reason in general as far as i can see considering the inconsistencies between mapping to and not to drums.

The best way to check this is asking multiple people in your target audience to test it! Maybe include yourself as well if you are part of the target audience!

I would also like to know how you "mapped in a way that makes sense to the song." I am not saying it doesn't, but rather curious as to your reasons for mapping in such way compared to other ways, since it is a cool idea.

- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\

i don't agree with the idea that beatmaps are made for a target audience (at least i don't do that).
i already said earlier that i don't map for anyone in particular, i just map the way i like.
mapping for target audience (that the mapper himself may not be included) can be interpreted as mapping to become a popular mapper even at the cost of not liking your own creation. (not everyone are like that, but there are mappers like that for sure) beatmapping should be about expressing yourself, not impressing other people.

basically everyone is my target audience, including the players from the other game modes, they are free to play my map (if they don't like it that's another story...)
it's just a matter of who would actually be interested in giving it a try, some people might not want to give it a try, because they don't like the song, they only play maps that are trending, they only play maps from popular mappers, they only play maps with specific star rating, length, language...

to me, it's not accurate to assume everyone from the possible target audience will enjoy the map, and that no one that's not part of that possible target audience would dislike the map.
WubWoofWolf for exemple, if he is supposed to be part of a specific target audience, then he is part of the audience that plays competitively for Performance Points, maps that gives less than 300 pp would not interest him, but WWW often plays old maps and easier diffs that gives him no PP at all.

another exemple is henry11ei, never talked to him before, he accepted to testplay my map, i checked his profile, his rank is 6 digit and he already played over 15.000 times, but his most played beatmap is big black (over 150 plays is enough to know that "the map was made for 3 digit players or better", so he played the map that much because he liked it or because he wanted to improve his skills, the real reason doesn't really matters, what's relevant is the fact that he was interested in the beatmap even when he would not be considered part of a possible target audience)

it's up to the player that added a map to his client to decide if the map interests him or not, he can play a map regardless of being able to make a full combo, or to even complete it. that's why the mods that makes the maps easier or impossible to fail exists, so anyone will be able to enjoy any map. same applies for the mods the makes the maps harder, they allow competitive players to play easier maps competitively...

i guess we can say that older players/mappers would usually like my map more, considering that all the very skilled veterans i asked for opinions accepted my map the way it is, but that's just a consequence of the way i like to map.
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i will be getting testplays from players with different skill levels, i'm okay with doing this, so far i got:

asked for testplays on modhelp


only henry11hey accepted at that time.




his performance was not good at all but he didn't blame my mapping style or anything about my hitsounds.
i think his performance is just relative to his skill level, 6 digit player able to complete the map but with bad accuracy and several misses.
the misses were not on places with slider tick sounds


i also asked for testplays on the brazillian mapper's discord server



Bariton and TheBenderGamer accepted
Ataraxia accepted too but he already modded/testplayed the map ages ago, he made a live stream modding/testplaying the map and the link is on description
if i recal correctly, ataraxia didn't complain about the slider ticks at any moment, and even if he did he changed his mind eventually because he didn't post anything about the slider tick hitsounds on his mod.




he did a FC in the 1st try, very good accuracy, i asked if he was using his own skin and if he disabled the map's hitsounds. he was using his own skin but didn't disable the hitsounds.
he praised my "taikosu hitsounding". i asked if he noticed my slider tick sounds and if they bothered him, he said he noticed them and they were cute.
later i noticed that i didn't save his replay, then i asked him to play again so i could save it and he got another FC with good accuracy.




he played on his own rather than telling me that he was going to testplay the map, later he sent me a pm complaining about the HP, i said that this could be discussed later and asked him to play again while i watch him play.
his performance was not very good but i asked him and he thinks the map is not mapped wrong, at some point he said that he is not good at ar8 but he didn't mean that it was not fitting, he blames his mousepad for the bad performance, and his skill level.
i asked if he noticed the slider tick hitsounds he said that it was the most noticeable thing in the mapset. i asked if the slider tick hitsounds bothered him he said that they didn't, and the map would feel empty without them.
later i told him that i forget to save his replay so he sent me his saved replay

all of the replays from the mappers i asked for testplay so far

my own lazy replay i used to play better than that, but i'm not playing often lately, so i had a lot of misses, none of them were caused by being confused by hitsounds, mostly aim misses, i mean obvious aim misses, not slider tick misses.


you can go ahead and post your own testplay, but since bariton, a 4 digit player, was able to get a FC on the 1st try, i expect nothing less than a FC with better accuracy from you as you are a 3 digit player. let's not forget about henry11hei, 6 digit player being able to beat my score playing the map the 1st time or 2nd time. he clearly struggled a lot, but he was able to keep a significant combo.

so this is the local ranking with the current saved replays


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i will be getting more testplays eventually.

as for you asking me reasons to map the way i did, it's just as i said before, i didn't wanted to mention your name when i said that "they don't understand their own position as modders" but yeah, you are basically making the same mistake as them.
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i don't need to explain why i did something in a way to prove that it's acceptable, it's the modder's "job" prove that what i'm doing is not acceptable.

to be honest this is not even relevant to the discussion, the way i mapped was accepted already, it's just that people don't want me to use slider ticks sounds and use SB'ed sounds instead.

i'm okay with trying to explain to you how i feel about the song and anything else, but as i said, this is not relevant to the discussion, just ask me ingame and i will do my best to explain. but this will just be me trying to be nice to someone interested in knowing more about the way i map, it does not contributes to the discussion at all.

Hello.

osu! is a game I recall.
Mappers are creating the content of the game.
Ranked beatmaps are ranked so that players can have fun and compete in the game.

When you are ranking a beatmap, you are not mapping for yourself, you are mapping for the players. This is because for any game that exists, the game developers/content creators are creating content for the players. Again, they are making it for the players, which means not (just) for themselves. This is what ranking a map entails.

If you are only mapping for yourself, then I would highly recommend that you do not rank your map, as the ranked beatmaps are made for players, not for mappers themselves. It actually is quite absurd to rank a map only for yourself, and osu! is the only game that exists that has this surreal problem where the content creators are not creating content for their audience.

You didn't need to link/embed a bunch of testplays... that doesn't do anything. I merely stated a suggestion that would seems to be better than your slider tick 4 idea currently, and if the testplayers in your target audience says it plays fine, then the chances of it being fine are good... you didn't need to link a bunch of plays and chatlogs saying so; however, I would ask the players if they think that actually mapping to what you are hitsounding to would be better or not, if I were you (because I am very sure they would agree, though I may be wrong).

I do not care what the other modders have said regarding this, as I want to discuss with you 1 on 1 regarding these few problems I have with the beatmap, and I am sure I have given "valid" reasoning so far for this specific point (if I did not, then I would like an explanation as to why).

That last section of your latest reply is irrational... if modders can not figure out what the mapper is trying to do, then the mapper should explain their intentions behind their method of mapping such a way if requested. Failing in doing so shows that the mapper is either swallowed up in ignorance, can't be bothered to, or doesn't know themselves as to why they mapped in such a way. I never said it was relevant either as I was merely interested as to how you came up with choosing such a concept. Again, please do not put words into my mouth!

- VINXIS
tryin to make a change :-\

i don't remember saying that i'm mapping for myself, i said that i map the way i like.

i decide if i want my map approved or not.

i just provided "detailed" testplays, there is nothing wrong with it.

your reasoning doesn't looks convincing to me because it implies that there is better ways to map than others, that's just subjectiveness, beatmapping is not something exact, everyone can see it differenlty.

the modders figured what i did already, they just don't want me to use slider tick rate 4

i won't be writing walls of text for you anymore since you are making it look like you feel bothered by anything i say. so if this 1 on 1 discussion really haves to be longer than it needs, then at least i won't be wasting too much of my time making detailed explanation.