abraker wrote:
That is naive thinking. Alright, yes space is bent infinitely in, but that doesn't mean there is a whole of nothingness there.
Let's examine what happens when a photon gets captured be a blackhole. As it passes the event horizon, time no longer ticks, right? Yea. So there are no dynamics going on, right? No. If you see the PBS Spacetime episode on how spacetime behaves inside a blackhole, you would know space starts acting like time and time starts acting like space. Instead of oscillations per second, you need to measure it in oscillation per meter. Let's demonstrate this using an intuitive example, a wave falling towards the singularity. That wave gets pulled toward the singularity, stretching it indefinitely, however it never quite reaches there. It just keep on going there, forever due to the infinite curvature. It is not stretched indefinitely all at once either. You see, if you take a point inside a blackhole intersect by a wave falling in, that point will experience those waves oscillations. However, those oscillations will pass slower and slower as the wave gets stretched more and more. At that point you would get maybe 10 oscillations per meter, then 7, 3, 1, 0.5, etc, approaching to 0 but never quite getting there. You actually need to stay still or move away from the singularity through the space inside a blackhole to have any resemblance of time. This is what it means to have time and space reversed. And as you can see, there is still much happening in there.
First off, this is not what happens inside the blackhole, this is a description of the mathematics inside the blackhole. The infinite curvature of a blackhole just means the geodesics surrounding the blackhole all points inward, so by newton's first law, any object will "remain in the blackhole". The photons that "fall into" a blackhole doesn't get "stretched" by a blackhole. Blackhole isn't you, it doesn't stretch anything, the reason photons "stretch" is because the geodesics are distorted, therefore it takes longer for light to get to you. Similarly, if you travel away from a photon coming towards you, it gets red-shiftedm and clearly you're not "stretching" a photon by moving away from it.
abraker wrote:
Yes, mass isn't deleted because the matter is still there, albeit disintegrated into its component field, may it be the electric field, magnetic field, strong force field, etc and is stretching indefinitely toward the singularity. When the mass radiates out, it's not what inside gets radiated out, but rather due to effects of the strong gravitation field ripping apart virtual particles near the event horizon into matter and antimatter. One matter/antimatter into blackhole, the other half out.
First off, what you need to search up is Unitarity. Apparently your main source of information is PBS Spacetime and I'm not sure if they cover it on there, but wikipedia probably does. (It's a good read) Basically it is quantum mechanic's version of conservation law. It is the conservation of information, and an unbreakable law like the conservation of energy. Unitarity is basically what holds the universe together, so it is close to impossible to find a theory that can disprove it. In fact, all theories need to adapt to it because it is so unbreakable. In physics we call these the "minus-1" laws, because it comes before anything else. If we were to violate that, physics would go back to square 1.
Now, the mass of the black hole is indeed "in there", but it's not disintegrated into component fields. I have no idea where you got this conclusion from, but no. The idea that information is locked up and inaccessible in a black hole, like a hidden chamber with gold inside, was a view adopted by physicists before Stephen Hawking's ground breaking discovery of Hawking Radiation. (Now for those of you who don't take physics, information doesn't only refer to the matters and energies and what not, but also the properties of them. So for example, an electron has spin, that as a whole is what we mean by information, and all of these information must be conserved.) in 1975, (I believe, don't quote me on that) Stephen Hawking discovered that black holes emit energy, and this emission is now known as Hawking's Radiation. These energy that it emits is the energies contained in the black hole, therefore the blackhole gets smaller and smaller as it radiates and finally reduces to nothingness. Interesting fact: The intensity or energy of the radiation doesn't depend on the anything that was in the black hole. But this meant that the information of the things that were "sucked" into the blackhole was being lost, thus breaking a fundamental law of physics.
Soon, theoretical physicists studying string theory were looking at dualities in their equations, they found that when you take mathematical description of a system and add 1 spatial dimensions to it with a negative curvature, you get something similar to quantum fields in a three-dimensional universe without gravity. This is what made a principal called Holographic Principle, which states that: All information in 3 dimensional spaces can be "kept" and "held" on a 2 dimensional surface. Recall the event horizon of a black hole, it is 2 dimensional. It is the surface of a sphere. So basically this theory stated that the information of a black hole could actually be "stored" on the event horizon. Now, like you said, Hawking radiation happens because particles and anti particles pops in and out of existence. (They're NOT virtual particles) So when this happens at the event horizon, the anti-particles that fall into the black whole essentially "cancels out" the mass of the black hole, making the black hole smaller and smaller. And some of the information stored on the event horizon, gets released in the form of hawking radiation.
Stephen Hawking's paper on this is
hereabraker wrote:
Something to clear up. All the energy is being attracted to other energy inside the blackhole, which leads it all towards one point. However, since the energies are concentrated so much, they bend spacetime so much so that the energy as waves have to travel toward the one point indefinitely. Hence the singularity. Another thing, I would say that it's infinite density only relative to an observer outside the event horizon. Relative to an observer inside the event horizon, there is no such point. It's an infinite journey to the center, much like an infinite journey towards the edge of the universe.
Nothing is "attracted" by anything in a blackhole. First off, how can something move or be attracted in a black hole? It has neither time, nor space. Spacetime gets distorted to the point you don't even know which is space and which is time. It's like the axis of a cartesian plane, an x-y graph, being scrunched up into a ball. How do you suppose the energies "attract" each other? Also, it is well known in the many-body scenario that depending on the arrangements of the bodys, the centre of attraction is different. By your criteria, I can make the singularity right next to an event horizon. Also, you got it the wrong way around. Relative to an observer inside the event horizon, there is a "singularity" which if he can see everything around him, that the matters surrounding him are moving towards. However, relative to an external observer, the dude never makes it pass the event horizon, he never crosses. This is why it is a deleted sequence from spacetime, because nothing makes pass it. They just stop at the event horizon, slowly turn red and vanish.
abraker wrote:
You see it redshifted as it is sucked in. It effectively crosses the event horizon. Though, the actual wave is being stretched from the event horizon to toward the singularity, so some part of the wave is indeed stuck on the event horizon. Time slows down indefinitely there, so the wave becomes highest freq gamma on the event horizon relative to an observer outside the event horizon, though you will never observer that. Relative to an observer inside the event horizon, the wave gets stretched indefinitely toward the "singularity" (which doesn't exist relative to there, just a direction) from an unreachable, external, source.
If it gets redshifted, it is not getting sucked in. If it vanishes, it effectively does not cross the event horizon. The wave is not being stretched from the event horizon towards the singularity either, it is just that the geodesics of spacetime around that area means that the photons follow a curved path rather than a straight path to get to you, which means increasing the distance, and therefore redshifting. There are no parts of the wave being "stuck" on the event horizon, which means you will never observe that because that isn't true. Relative to an observer inside the event horizon, the wave does not get stretched either as they are in the same frame of reference, their geodesics are both twisted. In both cases, there are no "singularity".
abraker wrote:
This would be true if dark energy expands spacetime such that the cosmic microwave background gets redshifted slower than the massive blackhole's Hawking Radiation vaporizes it, allowing the blackhole to get larger as time goes on. Since dark energy seems to be accelerating the universe's expansion, I don't think this will be the case unless universal expansion decides to take another, slower, curve in the next trillion years or so.
Yes....Because an empty universe expands..........................................