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chano & 40mP - Natsukoi Hanabi

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Doormat
late m4m sorry about that lol

[General]
  1. some diffs don't have kiai. intentional?
[Easy]
  1. 00:10:791 (5,6) - sounds heavily undermapped even for an easy. the music starts to pick up here so you could probably get away with making both of these sliders for better drum representation.
  2. 00:35:094 (2) - i'd argue for starting this on the downbeat 00:35:284 - instead since the piano there is more heavily emphasized than the vocals, similarly to 00:47:436 (2) - , but it's your call
[Normal]
  1. 00:18:575 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - i think the rhythm here is a little confusing to beginners, actually. you start off with what is very pronounced drum beats, and then switch over to the strings at 00:20:284 (5) - when the drums on 00:20:094 - and 00:20:474 - are arguably louder. since beginners are more likely to follow the drum beat rhythm that you established at the start of the combo i don't really recommend switching them to the strings halfway
[Bonsai]
  1. why is this an Insane when it's easier than the Hard lol. i get that this is mapped more like an Insane, but it's really misleading to have an Insane be easier than the Hard
  2. 00:04:715 (1) - the initial reverse arrow is kind of covered up by 00:03:955 (2) - , but it does get out of the way in time for the reverse arrow to become noticeable so i guess? it's technically okay? still treading on some thin ice here though s:
  3. 00:13:829 (4) - appear to be missing an NC here
  4. 00:38:892 (2,3,1) - i feel the (1) should be spaced out more
  5. some of your hitsounding comes across as really loud and out of place, for example the whistle on the slider body 00:48:955 (1) - and 00:51:044 (4) -
  6. 00:58:069 (1,1) - feel out of place compared to denser rhythm established right before this. i get that it's mapped to the "ooooooh" in the background but it just feels really jarring compared to the previous part s:
  7. 01:14:018 (4) - i feel this would work better as a slider + circle like the previous patterns. the whistle on the sliderbody extends to 01:14:208 - to 01:14:398 - as well so it sounds inconsistently more loud compared to the other two
[VINXIS]
  1. i can look past the map's visuals even if i don't particularly like them, but holy shit where do i even begin
  2. 00:00:917 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - 00:03:955 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - 00:06:993 (2,3,1,2,1,2,3) - why are these all different they literally all have the same kind of emphasis but the style of mapping is so inconsistent across all three.
    1. 00:00:917 (2,3,4,5,6,7) -why is the first pattern all distance snapped?
    2. 00:03:955 (2,3,4,5,6,7) -you can argue that with the second pattern the piano is more intense, sure. however, the intensity shift occurs on 00:04:715 (4) - , not 00:05:854 (7) - , so why is the (7) spaced much further apart? shouldn't 00:04:715 (4) - be spaced apart further away from the (3) and 00:04:715 (4,5,6,7) - be distance snapped?
    3. 00:06:993 (2,3,1,2,1,2,3) - using that same logic, why is the spacing here deviating even further? 00:06:993 (2,3) - is distance snapped okay, but why is 00:07:753 (1,2) - and 00:08:512 (1,2,3) - drastically different
  3. 00:19:145 (2,1,2,3,4) - why is this all distanced snapped to each other? you're clearly bringing emphasis to 00:19:335 (1,2,3,4) - it should have different spacing from this 00:19:145 (2) - at the very least
  4. 00:20:854 (5) - like why did you increase the spacing here
  5. 01:02:056 - it sounds like you're bringing emphasis into the buildup here with normal whistles so why is this a soft whistle
  6. 01:08:512 (1,2) - 01:11:550 (1,2) - 01:14:588 (1,2) - etc. extended sliders don't work in this instance, especially because you didn't bother to mute the slider ends. there are absolutely no sounds on these blue ticks, and the red ticks have a much more pronounced sound on them that you're just better off shortening these.
  7. 01:12:879 (4) - this note shouldn't exist based on the map's concept
  8. i get that this diff's "gimmick" is that it absolutely ignores all drums, but like come on. the map is barely hitsounded and you only have one timing point..
[Insane]
  1. 00:26:740 (3,1,2,1) - i feel like players are likely going to be confused in reading the last 1/1 gap 00:27:310 (2,1) -
[deetz]
  1. 00:59:683 (1) - spinner is a little bit fast, but should be fine for the most part
  2. 01:05:284 (3) - you can move this to x131|y42 to line up 01:04:715 (4,2,3) - ; i feel it looks nicer actually but it's really just a minor thing
  3. 01:22:942 (4,1) - actually i feel this would probably work more effectively if 01:22:942 (4) - was a 1/2 slider. there's no particular strong or emphasized sound on 01:23:132 (1) - so starting a new combo there just feels off. would be more appropriate to start the NC on 01:22:942 (4) - or 01:23:702 (3) - imo
  4. 01:31:582 (1) - err extend this to 01:34:525 - lol
  5. honestly this is probably the nicest diff in the set lol
[Expert]
  1. 00:17:721 (4,1,2) - i'm okay with the 1/1 and 1/2 snaps with same spacing provide a reading challenge, but having 1/4 and 1/2 snaps with same spacing is definitely pushing it. honestly if you Ctrl + G 00:18:006 (2,3) - it might be okay
  2. 00:37:942 (2,3) - spacing here is kind of extreme; 00:37:753 (1,2) - doesn't generate enough momentum to support such a large jump so the 2->3 jump feels a bit forced
  3. 00:38:512 (1,2) - 01:05:854 (1,2) - ^for similar reasoning i'd recommend spacing this out a bit more
hard is fine, but i'm not entirely sure how i feel about the mapset as a whole tbh, especially because of vinxis's diff s: will need to see vinxis's reasoning behind his diff's design choices, and we'll see how things go from there
ac8129464363

Doormat wrote:

[deetz]
  1. 00:59:683 (1) - spinner is a little bit fast, but should be fine for the most part yup the player's probably already comfortable spinning after finishing the one right before
  2. 01:05:284 (3) - you can move this to x131|y42 to line up 01:04:715 (4,2,3) - ; i feel it looks nicer actually but it's really just a minor thing did a move
  3. 01:22:942 (4,1) - actually i feel this would probably work more effectively if 01:22:942 (4) - was a 1/2 slider. there's no particular strong or emphasized sound on 01:23:132 (1) - so starting a new combo there just feels off. would be more appropriate to start the NC on 01:22:942 (4) - or 01:23:702 (3) - imo did a more suitable meme
  4. 01:31:582 (1) - err extend this to 01:34:525 - lol naw i ended the spinner where the vocals cut out
  5. honestly this is probably the nicest diff in the set lol thx u 2
http://puu.sh/xr3TZ/a1211efec9.rar
VINXIS
surely u realized that the patterns make up something as a whole and that the map isnt based on a "i need to give every single note a meaning to portray an idea" kind of mapping like most maps in the past few yrs/recently, but rather a "the map needs to portray an idea by using key patterning" kind of mapping which is a much older technique and which i personally prefer and i also think it creates much better beatmaps.. the same method has been used for almost all my maps since betrayal/flip flap flip flap

-

00:00:348 - to 00:09:461 - in General the notes are all closely distance snapped because the use of constant distance portrays the constant emphasis of the piano well at the beginning; in the instances they are not distrance snapped, they are for the sake of many reasons such as emphasis due to things like instrumentation layering, rising intensity, player intuition, a pattern's overall design, etc, u did play the map before modding it right

00:06:993 (2,3,1,2,1,2,3) - 01:12:879 (4) - u can hear the strings right

-

00:18:575 - to 00:27:689 - the 2 timestamps u pointed out in this section r such old tricks in the book that are still used in present day and play the same role in this map dude theres more ways to emphasize things than just make the spacing bigger Lol, in this case the comboing, flow breaking with inverted spacing, and consistent strong beat spacing decrease all play a role in making this easily playable and intuitive for players (wording is bad but yea), there are many examples throughout the map, a few being 00:09:272 (3,1,2) - 00:11:550 (2,1) - 00:14:588 (1,2,1) - 00:25:791 (4,1) - , i missed some within the sections proly since im replying before im going to slep but these r a few that are before/at the same section where u linked those timestamps holoaz does this a lot btw

-

01:08:512 (1,2) - 01:11:550 (1,2) - 01:14:588 (1,2) - u can hear how the vocals are in legato right

-

rhythm choice is not a gimmick\

map isnt barely hitsounded theres hitsounds everywhere

changed som smol things btw if doormat wont buble cuz of the diff then u can jus removr it

SPOILER
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 63
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.2
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LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 1

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 12
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 1.7

[Metadata]
Title:Natsukoi Hanabi
TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
Artist:chano & 40mP
ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Lasse
Version:VINXIS' Insane
Source:
Tags:Shano 40meterP Panorama Note VINXIS Bonsai deetz
BeatmapID:1383927
BeatmapSetID:650427

[Difficulty]
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OverallDifficulty:7
ApproachRate:8
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Combo3 : 120,170,240
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28,360,67183,6,0,P|30:317|39:276,1,85,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
274,134,67563,2,0,P|282:175|285:217,1,85
432,345,67942,2,0,P|394:363|352:371,2,85
307,34,68512,6,0,P|244:40|184:62,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
130,125,68892,2,0,P|109:173|103:266,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
132,324,69272,2,0,P|181:351|386:336,1,255,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
61,113,70221,6,0,P|100:97|142:90,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
305,170,70601,2,0,P|346:176|386:192,1,85
131,323,70980,2,0,P|126:273|132:231,2,85
479,76,71550,6,0,P|416:82|360:113,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
300,192,71930,2,0,P|283:255|297:346,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
408,290,72310,2,0,P|412:226|368:110,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
379,126,72879,1,0,0:0:0:0:
300,192,73069,1,0,0:0:0:0:
230,269,73259,6,0,P|189:258|147:264,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
380,127,73639,2,0,P|420:137|462:131,1,85
264,30,74018,2,0,P|254:71|251:113,2,85
149,133,74588,6,0,P|146:197|164:290,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
198,345,74968,2,0,P|263:372|350:372,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
392,331,75348,2,0,P|456:305|441:249,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
378,207,75727,2,0,P|380:161|395:101,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
288,107,76297,6,0,P|323:52|425:16,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
183,186,76866,2,0,P|196:92|235:1,1,170
223,22,77436,2,0,P|161:35|122:33,1,85
0,107,77816,6,0,L|90:97,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
161,65,78385,2,0,B|158:125|158:125|137:161|137:161|133:229,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
133,229,79335,6,0,P|179:228|218:240,1,85,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
386,351,79715,2,0,P|345:362|302:361,1,85
216,239,80094,2,0,P|221:172|250:127,2,85
429,184,80664,6,0,P|369:204|306:209,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
227,156,81044,2,0,P|165:135|111:137,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
38,49,81423,2,0,P|124:37|287:73,1,255,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
402,27,82183,1,0,0:0:0:0:
401,26,82373,6,0,P|417:66|421:108,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
258,247,82942,2,0,P|298:223|351:134,1,127.5
344,157,83322,2,0,P|343:102|332:48,1,85
156,205,83702,6,0,B|151:309|180:262|174:391,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
471,222,84461,2,0,B|465:111|494:158|489:54,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
488,54,85031,2,0,P|448:66|406:69,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
287,34,85411,6,0,P|236:41|130:147,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
174,384,86170,2,0,P|178:341|180:299,2,85
28,229,86740,6,0,P|95:226|200:184,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
484,229,87499,2,0,P|417:226|312:184,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
321,190,88069,2,0,P|331:247|332:286,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
190,190,88449,6,0,P|203:125|246:24,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
84,317,89398,6,0,P|16:327|-21:328,1,85
0,219,89778,6,0,P|55:205|187:240,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
512,165,90537,2,0,P|457:179|325:144,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
302,237,91107,1,0,0:0:0:0:
370,297,91297,1,0,0:0:0:0:
477,43,91487,5,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,91582,12,6,94525,0:0:0:0:

okgn
Bonsai

Doormat wrote:

[Bonsai]
  1. why is this an Insane when it's easier than the Hard lol. i get that this is mapped more like an Insane, but it's really misleading to have an Insane be easier than the Hard don't ask me, Lasse mapped that after me lol
  2. 00:04:715 (1) - the initial reverse arrow is kind of covered up by 00:03:955 (2) - , but it does get out of the way in time for the reverse arrow to become noticeable so i guess? it's technically okay? still treading on some thin ice here though s: Technically okay yup, and I feel like as soon as you heard this song once it's completely expectable that there's gonna be a reverse, so ye. maybe view it as a spread-thing towards the Hard lel
  3. 00:13:829 (4) - appear to be missing an NC here nöpe, I'm only NCing when the underlying harmony changes
  4. 00:38:892 (2,3,1) - i feel the (1) should be spaced out more I don't think so, I want it to lead into the calmness of the following two measures
  5. some of your hitsounding comes across as really loud and out of place, for example the whistle on the slider body 00:48:955 (1) - and 00:51:044 (4) - Doesn't feel out of place to me lol, the vocals just sound 100% like normal-whistles and I like noticable hitsounding anyways since that's like part of the game-design
  6. 00:58:069 (1,1) - feel out of place compared to denser rhythm established right before this. i get that it's mapped to the "ooooooh" in the background but it just feels really jarring compared to the previous part s: doesn't feel jarring to me and I really wanna emphasize the ooooh so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  7. 01:14:018 (4) - i feel this would work better as a slider + circle like the previous patterns. the whistle on the sliderbody extends to 01:14:208 - to 01:14:398 - as well so it sounds inconsistently more loud compared to the other two I don't know any japanese but the syllable that would be circle'd simply doesn't seem that strong to me as it does in the other places, and imo it also nicely leads into this phrase being much longer and continuous than the previous ones since it doesn't end after 01:15:348 (3) -. And again I don't see any issue with hitsounds being audible lel
aligator gozaimasu!
box
owait I didn't change anything
Topic Starter
Lasse
Doormat

Doormat wrote:

late m4m sorry about that lol

[General]
  1. some diffs don't have kiai. intentional? yes, I added a few kiai flashes now though. e/n have less of them since the ones I left out didn't really fit there with how it was mapped (01:17:816 - ) + kiai for the ending
[Easy]
  1. 00:10:791 (5,6) - sounds heavily undermapped even for an easy. the music starts to pick up here so you could probably get away with making both of these sliders for better drum representation. applied
  2. 00:35:094 (2) - i'd argue for starting this on the downbeat 00:35:284 - instead since the piano there is more heavily emphasized than the vocals, similarly to 00:47:436 (2) - , but it's your call 2/1 seems more intuitive and part mainly maps piano/vocals so yes, keeping
[Normal]
  1. 00:18:575 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - i think the rhythm here is a little confusing to beginners, actually. you start off with what is very pronounced drum beats, and then switch over to the strings at 00:20:284 (5) - when the drums on 00:20:094 - and 00:20:474 - are arguably louder. since beginners are more likely to follow the drum beat rhythm that you established at the start of the combo i don't really recommend switching them to the strings halfway 00:18:575 (1,2) - still has strings though, even if they are weaker and the repeat slider works well for shifting polarity imo
[Insane]
  1. 00:26:740 (3,1,2,1) - i feel like players are likely going to be confused in reading the last 1/1 gap 00:27:310 (2,1) - works well for transition here and is alright to read, 1/2 - 1/1 transitions like this usually don't really throw off people if they pay some attention

[Expert]
  1. 00:17:721 (4,1,2) - i'm okay with the 1/1 and 1/2 snaps with same spacing provide a reading challenge, but having 1/4 and 1/2 snaps with same spacing is definitely pushing it. honestly if you Ctrl + G 00:18:006 (2,3) - it might be okay not really sure about this one, it feels quite intuitive after a play or two (and also pretty early into the map) and matches the overall spacing concepts used. I mean I could change if it would really be needed,
    but I actually think it would make the map worse overall and the other spacing change you suggest doesn't really fit the drums and movement concept imo
  2. 00:37:942 (2,3) - spacing here is kind of extreme; 00:37:753 (1,2) - doesn't generate enough momentum to support such a large jump so the 2->3 jump feels a bit forced but that's part of the point
  3. 00:38:512 (1,2) - 01:05:854 (1,2) - ^for similar reasoning i'd recommend spacing this out a bit more the whole diff was built about utilizing momentum like that though to make for more "awkward" movement like momentum abuse and wide angles, also all of these go downwards for the biggest spacing which tends to be easier for such things for most playstyles due to the hand movement, and the angles are always sharp enough to allow easily snapping these
hard is fine, but i'm not entirely sure how i feel about the mapset as a whole tbh, especially because of vinxis's diff s: will need to see vinxis's reasoning behind his diff's design choices, and we'll see how things go from there

thanks!

updated all diffs
also Bonsai's Insane is harder than my Hard imo, most of the difficulty comes from low spacing circles going into way faster sliders which sr doesn't account for at all
it definitely is not mapped like a hard so 👀
(also the spread is totally fine either way since my diffs alone make a proper set already)
Doormat

VINXIS wrote:

surely u realized that the patterns make up something as a whole and that the map isnt based on a "i need to give every single note a meaning to portray an idea" kind of mapping like most maps in the past few yrs/recently, but rather a "the map needs to portray an idea by using key patterning" kind of mapping which is a much older technique and which i personally prefer and i also think it creates much better beatmaps.. the same method has been used for almost all my maps since betrayal/flip flap flip flap i can chalk up most of the design choices to artistic interpretation but i still have some major issues with the map

-

00:00:348 - to 00:09:461 - in General the notes are all closely distance snapped because the use of constant distance portrays the constant emphasis of the piano well at the beginning; in the instances they are not distrance snapped, they are for the sake of many reasons such as emphasis due to things like instrumentation layering, rising intensity, player intuition, a pattern's overall design, etc, u did play the map before modding it right why isn't 00:04:715 (4) - emphasized then? this is audibly the loudest sound for the blue combo, but instead of the spacing variations like the other two combos you just went with a direction change. it ends up making the spacing change at 00:05:854 (7) - feel even more weird since that's not the most loud sound here

00:06:993 (2,3,1,2,1,2,3) - 01:12:879 (4) - u can hear the strings right yes i do, i can chalk this up to artistic interpretation i guess, even if i don't necessarily agree with it.

-

00:18:575 - to 00:27:689 - the 2 timestamps u pointed out in this section r such old tricks in the book that are still used in present day and play the same role in this map dude theres more ways to emphasize things than just make the spacing bigger Lol, in this case the comboing, flow breaking with inverted spacing, and consistent strong beat spacing decrease all play a role in making this easily playable and intuitive for players (wording is bad but yea), there are many examples throughout the map, a few being 00:09:272 (3,1,2) - 00:11:550 (2,1) - 00:14:588 (1,2,1) - 00:25:791 (4,1) - , i missed some within the sections proly since im replying before im going to slep but these r a few that are before/at the same section where u linked those timestamps holoaz does this a lot btw again you're completely disregarding what i'm saying. you talk about consistent strong beat spacing, but 00:19:525 (2,3,4) - the strongest sounds here has the same spacing with 00:19:145 (2,1) - which is the weaker sound. you could argue that the shift from an upwards to a downwards flow compensates for the weak spacing, but i would argue otherwise; it doesn't work well enough because the inverted flow doesn't feel noticeable due to the previous jump, and the map feels off as a result

-

01:08:512 (1,2) - 01:11:550 (1,2) - 01:14:588 (1,2) - u can hear how the vocals are in legato right thanks for the music lesson dad; this is a piss poor excuse and doesn't even address my concerns. what you're doing here is ignoring the main emphasis in the music just for this "legato effect", and it ends up being executed really badly. you're putting sounds (slider ends) on nonexistent sounds in the music (blue ticks), when the sounds in the music being emphasized are the 1/2s. you can emphasize the vocals and make them tied together while not ignoring the music; this is basically your logic here:



according to you (1) has more of a legato effect than (2) because the sounds are being held for longer, which is like really retarded music theory.


-

rhythm choice is not a gimmick\ wrong word choice on my part my bad, my brain momentarily forgot the term "rhythm choice" lmao

map isnt barely hitsounded theres hitsounds everywhere if you say so
VINXIS
feels like u compelltely ignored almost everything i said and repeated everything and most ppl said the opposite about the 3/4 sliders anyway so its clearly not something objective...

holy fuuuc idc enuf about osu/my gd to take this srsly and it wasnt for rank anyway so jus remove my diff lmoa

edit:unless if lasse wants to keep it, in that case the top part is my response
Bonsai
Hi, I kinda wanna step in for VINXIS here bc wtf honestly

00:04:715 (4) - "instead of the spacing variations like the other two combos you just went with a direction change" - What spacing variation / other two combos are you talking about? The euqivalent to this note in the previous combo is 00:01:677 (4) which has absolutely nothing, so a direction change is more than that. And I don't see how the following combos would influence this either, their emphasizing the strings and that's it.

00:05:854 (7) - This is indeed not the loudest not, but since when is loudness the most important thing in mapping? This is the root note of the harmony or whatever you call that in english, it goes back to where the combo started, which is the exact same coordinate in the map. g

I'm not defending against issue with the notes around 00:19:145 (2) - bc imo this note is an unnecessary filler-note and removing it would solve your issue, right? so ya, @vinxis delet dis maybe

for the 3/4-sliders: shortening to 1/2 would make the map ignore the music for real bc then they are the exact same as 01:07:183 (1,2) etc even tho completely different stuff is happening as there wouldn't be any vocals on those tails, hence completely killing differentiation. I'm at least as ciritcal towards extended sliders as the next guy, but these are perfectly fitting / executed, I don't see how anything is wrong with those. Whether you're silencing overmapped tails or not is just a matter of taste, considering how they are much quieter in constrast to the whistles on the heads I don't perceive them as disturbing either.

and I didn't look at the whole map but for 01:12:879 (4) I feel like (3) could just be extended to there bc currently the tail of (3) seems like an unnecessary filler-note to me too, so ya, @vinxis delet extend dis maybe
Doormat

Bonsai wrote:

Hi, I kinda wanna step in for VINXIS here bc wtf honestly i honestly don't think i'm being too unreasonable; i'm willing to hear out his reasoning and point out the issues that i personally have with the map. i'm willing to look over my own bias and trust vinxis's reasoning for why he mapped certain things in certain ways, provided that he's more coherent and explains his reasoning other than saying something incredibly vague like "muh legato effect"

00:04:715 (4) - "instead of the spacing variations like the other two combos you just went with a direction change" - What spacing variation / other two combos are you talking about? The euqivalent to this note in the previous combo is 00:01:677 (4) which has absolutely nothing, so a direction change is more than that. And I don't see how the following combos would influence this either, their emphasizing the strings and that's it. i just think it has less of an impact compared to the increase in spacing in the third combo string, but i can accept this answer

00:05:854 (7) - This is indeed not the loudest not, but since when is loudness the most important thing in mapping? This is the root note of the harmony or whatever you call that in english, it goes back to where the combo started, which is the exact same coordinate in the map. g makes sense.

I'm not defending against issue with the notes around 00:19:145 (2) - bc imo this note is an unnecessary filler-note and removing it would solve your issue, right? so ya, @vinxis delet dis maybe

for the 3/4-sliders: shortening to 1/2 would make the map ignore the music for real bc then they are the exact same as 01:07:183 (1,2) etc even tho completely different stuff is happening as there wouldn't be any vocals on those tails, hence completely killing differentiation. I'm at least as ciritcal towards extended sliders as the next guy, but these are perfectly fitting / executed, I don't see how anything is wrong with those. Whether you're silencing overmapped tails or not is just a matter of taste, considering how they are much quieter in constrast to the whistles on the heads I don't perceive them as disturbing either. this however i just can't agree to. when the music places so much emphasis onto the eighth note (1/2 snap) dynamic and you end up ignoring it completely for the sake of elongating vocals, it just doesn't work in my eyes. if it was a one-time thing and the sound being skipped over isn't as nearly as prominent as the rhythm choice then it would probably be fine, but since the chorus of the song focuses too much on this eighth note dynamic the constant omissions doesn't sit right with me. this is only exacerbated by putting the slider end in between the two obvious sounds, where a sound isn't even really present. if you really wanted to achieve a more effective "legato effect" then you should have just used a 1/1 repeat slider or something. dampening slider end volumes might resolve this issue as well.

and I didn't look at the whole map but for 01:12:879 (4) I feel like (3) could just be extended to there bc currently the tail of (3) seems like an unnecessary filler-note to me too, so ya, @vinxis delet extend dis maybe
as i said, i'm willing to overlook my own bias towards mapping concepts provided that vinxis, and only vinxis, can provide a better argument as to why he completely ignored the emphasis of the song with a more complete and coherent answer than "because legato effect".

VINXIS wrote:

holy fuuuc idc enuf about osu/my gd to take this srsly and it wasnt for rank anyway so jus remove my diff lmoa

edit:unless if lasse wants to keep it, in that case the top part is my response
i wouldn't want somebody to have to remove a difficulty just because i personally don't agree with it. if you can convince me otherwise i'm willing to overlook my own bias and give it more of a chance.
Monstrata
Yea, kinda agree with Doormat lol. Vocal-focused ideas might work in other songs, but I don't think you introduce the legato effect enough in verse sections. Like, the legato idea itself is good actually, people usually just spam 1/2 rhythms here. But if you're going to do those 3/4 sliders you should use them in other places too. Other problem though is that this song's vocals use a lot of dotted rhythms like 00:55:031 (1,2) - 00:58:069 (1,2) - etc... where you can't really use extended sliders anyways. So yea, not a good song choice, but also, where there are legato effects in the verse section it would be nice to map them specifically in this manner (using extended sliders) instead of using 1/1 repeats like 00:35:094 (4) - cuz otherwise it's a very "standard" interpretation that doesn't really support your specific extended slider element.

Might want to use 1/2 repeats or 1/1 rhythms for 00:29:208 - 00:41:265 - cuz vocals aren't really well snapped :P.

Doormat's right about hitsounds though, you could use more. 01:16:866 (2) - 01:22:942 (2) - places like these could use the whistle. 01:07:563 (2,3) - etc... I would argue could also use hitsounds since you're trying to maintain vocal rhythm focus it seems. The song's instrumental track is very similar in rhythm to the vocal track so yea again, not a good song choice for this style of mapping...

Aesthetics and spacing are fine for me. It's good use of emphasis through sliderbreaks, poor entry angles. Not really cool to guilt-trip someone into accepting your map for what it is tho. Everyone knows BN's hate having to tell people to trash what they have, let alone remove an entire difficulty lol.
VINXIS
ok doormat said hes listening but he didnt listen before but since he said it now it probably means hes listening now

give me a better suggestion for 00:19:145 - while still having the same idea then because right now the 2 is an important note for the player due to the rhythmical circumstances, it plays significantly better for me with its existence there than it does without it so

i didnt think i needed to explain what i meant by that so i just said 1 sentence instead in the reply
:lol:
the music doesnt put emphasis into the red and white ticks that were skipped, vocals are part of the music, i dont see the 1/2 dynamic u r talking about, i didnt say 1 has more of a legato effect than 2 but i have no idea where u even got those rhythms from and they are literally just ties/slurs.. the relationship of slurs to legato is the relationship of squares to rectangles.. and ltiaerlly all i hear in the white and red ticks is hi hats and a snare, u arent talking about those sounds being the Main Emphasis of the Song that matters moreare u because i never focused on anything in the drums at all throughout the whole entire map so it would make no sense to cater for them to somehow be the most important at these times for the map..

the 3/4 sliders dont have a sound at the sliderends!!!!!!!!! which isnt a problem even if that was True because the articulation is still obviously therwe ( the articulation may not be EXACTLY there but theres no reaason to get nazi about shit like that because it just doesnt even matter!!!!!!!), its easy, intuitive, and simple.. i dont understand why this hurts the player at all in play?/ im pretty sure even 900k players could play this easily Lmao, i also dont see hgow every signle sliderend that doesnt exist on a note in the history of osu is bad (which is what it sounds like ur saying) when context plays a huge part in it in every single circumstance | EVEN if there are "strong notes" in the sliders from "other stuff", why does it even matter when im mapping to the vocals and not other stuff, ive only mapped other stuff if there arent vocals there.. all the 1/2 BSD snap sliders are to vocals, none of the hitsounding is related to the drums/other instruments in the section,

the overwhelming majority of people do not have a problem with the 3/4 sliders but thats probably because it isnt even a problem

i dont understand how mapping to 3/4 sliders in the verse before would help anything either when rhythm choice isnt a "gimmick", 3/4 sliders OR vocal mapping thats not randomly done arent even something that players have to adapt to understand in a smaller scale earlier on the map than for something like """""""sudden"""""""" 2x sv changes or spacing concepts

1/1 sliders compared to the current is super lame

the onyl timestamp of the 3 i added whistles to us the first 1 but thats becuase i already had a whistle there from yesterday, idk wot the 2nd half of the paragraph is saying but thats probably because the rhythm choices were to ignore drums not map only to vocals noob

SPOILER
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 63
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.2
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 1

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 16
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 1.7

[Metadata]
Title:Natsukoi Hanabi
TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
Artist:chano & 40mP
ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Lasse
Version:VINXIS' Insane
Source:
Tags:Shano 40meterP Panorama Note VINXIS Bonsai deetz
BeatmapID:1383927
BeatmapSetID:650427

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:6
CircleSize:4
OverallDifficulty:7
ApproachRate:8
SliderMultiplier:1.7
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
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[TimingPoints]
348,379.746835443038,4,2,0,80,1,0


[Colours]
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Combo2 : 250,110,110
Combo3 : 120,170,240
Combo4 : 250,150,230

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256,89,6993,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,46,7373,1,0,0:0:0:0:
96,192,7753,5,2,0:0:0:0:
416,272,8132,1,0,0:0:0:0:
96,80,8512,5,2,0:0:0:0:
416,0,8892,1,0,0:0:0:0:
299,105,9272,1,0,0:0:0:0:
245,42,9461,6,0,P|144:45|77:-5,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
88,8,10031,2,0,P|75:67|59:111,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
210,263,10411,2,0,P|223:204|239:160,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
413,41,10791,6,0,B|371:53|325:42|325:42|284:32|243:42,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
503,369,11550,2,0,P|469:292|480:209,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
480,209,12499,6,0,P|484:262|481:305,2,85,6|0|2,0:0|0:0|0:1,0:0:0:0:
158,65,13069,2,0,L|74:47,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
315,149,13449,2,0,L|398:131,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
124,184,13829,2,0,L|77:255,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
359,352,14208,2,0,L|312:280,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
230,180,14588,6,0,P|234:115|247:69,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
230,180,14968,2,2,P|347:184|404:222,1,170,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:1:0:0:
438,288,15537,6,0,P|440:344|434:390,2,85,2|0|2,0:1|0:0|0:1,0:0:0:0:
118,164,16107,2,0,L|220:144,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
240,355,16487,2,0,L|138:335,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
331,105,16866,2,0,L|429:130,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
352,329,17246,2,0,L|324:219,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
290,12,17626,6,2,P|259:60|267:185,1,170,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:1:0:0:
331,246,18196,2,2,P|372:255|416:253,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:1:0:0:
188,295,18575,6,0,L|-4:271,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
0,56,19145,1,0,0:0:0:0:
19,138,19335,5,2,0:1:0:0:
90,184,19525,1,2,0:1:0:0:
174,178,19715,1,2,0:1:0:0:
245,132,19904,2,0,P|330:142|421:166,2,170,2|0|2,0:1|0:0|0:1,0:0:0:0:
96,288,20854,1,2,0:1:0:0:
172,337,21044,6,0,P|196:282|165:167,1,170,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
119,86,21613,5,2,0:1:0:0:
351,223,21803,1,2,0:1:0:0:
350,223,22183,2,0,P|390:208|432:201,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
486,333,22563,2,0,P|500:292|507:251,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
404,372,22942,6,0,P|371:344|344:312,1,85,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
414,62,23322,2,2,P|386:94|354:121,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:1:0:0:
266,255,23702,2,2,L|168:251,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:1:0:0:
17,198,24082,1,2,0:0:0:0:
17,198,24272,2,0,P|-1:258|7:321,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
28,336,24651,6,6,B|98:327|98:327|126:340|126:340|200:328,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
481,39,25411,1,2,0:0:0:0:
452,125,25601,1,0,0:0:0:0:
375,171,25791,1,2,0:0:0:0:
286,179,25980,6,0,B|204:195|204:195|119:179,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
493,216,26740,2,0,L|471:384,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
195,23,27689,5,6,0:0:0:0:
195,23,28449,2,0,P|240:30|297:27,2,85
356,96,29018,1,0,0:0:0:0:
456,47,29208,5,2,0:0:0:0:
456,47,29398,2,0,P|463:87|457:228,1,170
52,215,30158,2,0,P|45:131|56:47,1,170
256,103,30727,6,0,L|255:276,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
65,332,31297,1,2,0:0:0:0:
65,332,31487,2,0,P|118:320|165:318,2,85
181,228,32056,2,0,P|232:239|398:360,1,255,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
487,342,32816,1,2,0:0:0:0:
419,179,33196,1,2,0:0:0:0:
419,179,33765,6,0,L|243:138,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
152,91,34335,1,2,0:0:0:0:
152,91,34525,2,0,P|143:139|148:181,2,85
349,193,35094,2,0,P|286:247|203:240,2,170,2|0|2,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
349,193,36234,2,0,P|327:110|322:26,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
322,26,36803,6,0,B|415:-4|397:69|485:38,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
511,206,37373,2,0,B|418:236|436:163|347:193,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
266,251,37942,1,0,0:0:0:0:
186,202,38132,6,0,L|15:232,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
18,231,38892,2,0,L|23:328,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
332,121,39272,1,2,0:0:0:0:
332,121,39841,5,6,0:0:0:0:
332,120,40601,2,0,P|327:163|332:205,2,85
423,186,41170,1,0,0:0:0:0:
400,272,41360,5,2,0:0:0:0:
400,272,41550,2,0,P|369:302|238:348,1,170
8,384,42310,2,0,P|74:331|155:308,1,170
235,250,42879,6,0,L|255:66,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
178,9,43449,1,2,0:0:0:0:
178,8,43639,2,0,P|136:18|102:42,2,85
293,57,44208,6,0,P|354:66|461:36,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
478,135,44778,2,0,P|421:142|380:160,1,85,0|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
395,151,45348,1,2,0:0:0:0:
86,281,45917,6,0,L|273:251,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
288,170,46487,1,2,0:0:0:0:
288,170,46677,2,0,P|330:178|373:177,2,85
208,108,47246,6,0,P|148:113|59:198,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
321,23,48006,2,0,P|380:82|462:96,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
225,344,48765,1,0,0:0:0:0:
225,344,48955,6,0,B|268:258|183:265|226:162,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
300,212,49525,2,0,P|381:192|450:143,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
159,305,50284,6,0,P|77:284|8:235,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
0,134,50854,2,0,P|26:98|91:68,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
161,59,51234,5,2,0:0:0:0:
167,67,51613,1,2,0:0:0:0:
173,75,51993,6,0,P|240:81|114:213,1,425,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
116,217,53132,2,0,P|94:253|84:295,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
176,354,53512,6,0,L|367:324,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
322,228,54082,2,0,L|513:258,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
489,254,54651,2,0,P|493:308|486:356,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,288,55031,6,0,P|232:229|261:129,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
143,0,55601,2,0,P|167:59|138:159,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
65,228,56170,1,2,0:0:0:0:
143,295,56360,1,2,0:0:0:0:
143,295,56550,6,0,L|340:308,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
318,221,57120,2,0,P|379:231|472:157,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
480,92,57689,2,0,P|473:50|447:17,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
394,85,58069,6,0,P|340:58|206:62,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
144,168,58639,2,0,P|198:141|332:145,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,187,59208,1,2,0:0:0:0:
394,85,59398,1,2,0:0:0:0:
372,187,59588,6,0,L|357:373,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
248,215,60158,2,0,L|263:401,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
149,356,60727,2,0,P|146:304|171:251,1,85,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
114,101,61107,6,2,P|102:181|42:286,1,170,2|0,0:1|0:0,0:1:0:0:
198,9,61677,2,2,P|211:92|249:168,2,170,2|2|2,0:1|0:1|0:1,0:1:0:0:
443,233,62816,5,2,0:1:0:0:
126,333,63196,1,2,0:1:0:0:
256,188,63575,1,2,0:1:0:0:
256,188,63955,1,2,0:1:0:0:
312,100,64145,6,2,P|364:104|424:116,1,85,6|2,0:0|0:1,0:1:0:0:
381,304,64525,1,0,0:0:0:0:
200,284,64715,6,2,P|148:280|88:268,1,85,6|2,0:0|0:1,0:1:0:0:
131,80,65094,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,188,65284,1,0,0:0:0:0:
28,360,65474,5,6,0:0:0:0:
468,104,66234,5,2,0:0:0:0:
28,360,66613,1,2,0:0:0:0:
28,360,67183,6,0,P|30:317|39:276,1,85,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
274,134,67563,2,0,P|282:175|285:217,1,85
432,345,67942,2,0,P|394:363|352:371,2,85
307,34,68512,6,0,P|244:40|184:62,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
130,125,68892,2,0,P|109:173|103:266,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
132,324,69272,2,0,P|181:351|386:336,1,255,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
61,113,70221,6,0,P|100:97|142:90,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
305,170,70601,2,0,P|346:176|386:192,1,85
131,323,70980,2,0,P|126:273|132:231,2,85
479,76,71550,6,0,P|416:82|360:113,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
300,192,71930,2,0,P|283:255|297:346,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
408,290,72310,2,0,P|412:226|368:110,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
379,126,72879,1,0,0:0:0:0:
300,192,73069,1,0,0:0:0:0:
230,269,73259,6,0,P|189:258|147:264,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
380,127,73639,2,0,P|420:137|462:131,1,85
264,30,74018,2,0,P|254:71|251:113,2,85
149,133,74588,6,0,P|146:197|164:290,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
198,345,74968,2,0,P|263:372|350:372,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
392,331,75348,2,0,P|456:305|441:249,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
378,207,75727,2,0,P|380:161|395:101,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
288,107,76297,6,0,P|323:52|425:16,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
183,186,76866,2,0,P|196:92|235:1,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
223,22,77436,2,0,P|161:35|122:33,1,85
0,110,77816,6,0,L|90:100,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
161,65,78385,2,0,B|158:125|158:125|137:161|137:161|133:229,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
133,229,79335,6,0,P|179:228|218:240,1,85,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
386,351,79715,2,0,P|345:362|302:361,1,85
216,239,80094,2,0,P|221:172|250:127,2,85
429,184,80664,6,0,P|369:204|306:209,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
227,156,81044,2,0,P|165:135|111:137,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
38,49,81423,2,0,P|124:37|287:73,1,255,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
402,27,82183,1,0,0:0:0:0:
401,26,82373,6,0,P|417:66|421:108,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
258,247,82942,2,0,P|298:223|351:134,1,127.5
344,157,83322,2,0,P|343:102|332:48,1,85
156,205,83702,6,0,B|151:309|180:262|174:391,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
471,222,84461,2,0,B|465:111|494:158|489:54,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
488,54,85031,2,0,P|448:66|406:69,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
287,34,85411,6,0,P|236:41|130:147,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
174,384,86170,2,0,P|178:341|180:299,2,85
28,229,86740,6,0,P|95:226|200:184,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
484,229,87499,2,0,P|417:226|312:184,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
321,190,88069,2,0,P|331:247|332:286,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
190,190,88449,6,0,P|203:125|246:24,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
84,317,89398,6,0,P|16:327|-21:328,1,85
0,219,89778,6,0,P|55:205|187:240,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
512,165,90537,2,0,P|457:179|325:144,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
302,237,91107,1,0,0:0:0:0:
370,297,91297,1,0,0:0:0:0:
477,43,91487,5,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,91582,12,6,94525,0:0:0:0:

i dont wannaaaaaa bother doing lengthy responses and trying to convince people about a gd because: its osu, the diff personally isnt worthwhile or good enough for me to put in THIS MUCH effort, the arguments against my diff are harmful for the map, and there are better things to do in life than this!!111 which is why i asked to delete my diff!!111131344545646578 i could care less if it was a bn or a random person they're basically the same anyway1111111111111111111111111111 fucK :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
Doormat

VINXIS wrote:

ok doormat said hes listening but he didnt listen before but since he said it now it probably means hes listening now

give me a better suggestion for 00:19:145 - while still having the same idea then because right now the 2 is an important note for the player due to the rhythmical circumstances, it plays significantly better for me with its existence there than it does without it so you could probably do something like this so that the flow break is more apparent between 00:18:575 (1,2) - and 00:19:335 (1,2,3,4) - , but it's just a suggestion so do what you will with it

i didnt think i needed to explain what i meant by that so i just said 1 sentence instead in the reply
:lol:
the music doesnt put emphasis into the red and white ticks that were skipped, vocals are part of the music, i dont see the 1/2 dynamic u r talking about, i didnt say 1 has more of a legato effect than 2 but i have no idea where u even got those rhythms from and they are literally just ties/slurs.. the relationship of slurs to legato is the relationship of squares to rectangles.. and ltiaerlly all i hear in the white and red ticks is hi hats and a snare, u arent talking about those sounds being the Main Emphasis of the Song that matters moreare u because i never focused on anything in the drums at all throughout the whole entire map so it would make no sense to cater for them to somehow be the most important at these times for the map..

the 3/4 sliders dont have a sound at the sliderends!!!!!!!!! which isnt a problem even if that was True because the articulation is still obviously therwe ( the articulation may not be EXACTLY there but theres no reaason to get nazi about shit like that because it just doesnt even matter!!!!!!!), its easy, intuitive, and simple.. i dont understand why this hurts the player at all in play?/ im pretty sure even 900k players could play this easily Lmao, i also dont see hgow every signle sliderend that doesnt exist on a note in the history of osu is bad (which is what it sounds like ur saying) when context plays a huge part in it in every single circumstance | EVEN if there are "strong notes" in the sliders from "other stuff", why does it even matter when im mapping to the vocals and not other stuff, ive only mapped other stuff if there arent vocals there.. all the 1/2 BSD snap sliders are to vocals, none of the hitsounding is related to the drums/other instruments in the section,

the overwhelming majority of people do not have a problem with the 3/4 sliders but thats probably because it isnt even a problem i wouldn't use "oh but x people modded the map and they don't have issues with so it must be fine!!!!" as a valid reason, but i was just expressing how i felt that the rhythm choice doesn't compliment the song that well because of the hi-hats being completely ignored like that. basically the map emphasis doesn't really capture the song emphasis, but i can more or less accept your reasoning for it now.

i dont understand how mapping to 3/4 sliders in the verse before would help anything either when rhythm choice isnt a "gimmick", 3/4 sliders OR vocal mapping thats not randomly done arent even something that players have to adapt to understand in a smaller scale earlier on the map than for something like """""""sudden"""""""" 2x sv changes or spacing concepts

1/1 sliders compared to the current is super lame
that being said, i'm more or less satisfied with this answer, and on technicality there's nothing else i really have any concerns with that hasn't been explained already. get the 12 sp and maybe one or two mods then call me back.
VINXIS
O

i hope thers no more bigq modz.......................................................


did a similar to the thing ill send it in next mod response then
Ametrin
M4M

uhhhh this bg... :thinking:

[Easy]
00:20:664 (4) - maybe stop at 00:21:044 - ? feels like you are not following the drum at this part except this slider
00:24:272 - this might be clickable for the same reason
01:05:094 (2) - remove this? not strong enough imo

[Normal]
00:19:335 (3,4) - i don't think it's 00:19:904 (4) - that should be clickable... i mean maybe put two slider here or ctrl+g (just rhythm)
00:23:702 (6,7) - there's a sound here so maybe ctrl+g

[Bonsai's Insane]
nice sr
00:06:044 (2) - u think normal-whistle really fit this part? :?
01:03:006 - maybe put a note at the tail 01:03:196 (5) - ? slider 01:03:765 (6) - feel a bit unexpected since you follow all the way to the vocal
01:16:866 (2) - why not put some jumps like 01:15:917 (4,5) - to keep the intensity

[Hard]
00:22:942 (1) - i'll ctrl+g here. all point to the top kinda lose impact at here
00:39:461 (1) - sv 1.3 here seems a bit high..

[VINXIS's Insane]
00:05:474 (6,7) - feels a bit strange about ds here is even larger than 00:05:854 (7,1) -
00:32:436 - ignore this sound may not be a good idea :o just do as you did at 00:44:208 (1,2) -
01:12:879 (4,5) - ctrl+g? can't feel the impact on 01:13:259 (1) -
01:29:208 - i knoe u try to follow vocal but this blank is kinda misleading...

[Insane]
looks nice for me but 00:13:069 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - 1 pixel error lol not perfect symmetrical

sorry but deetz's Insane and Expert is really nice :o nothing to say

:)
wajinshu
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/612658
  • [Expert]
  1. 00:31:677 (4,5) - should have lesser spacing instead of 00:31:487 (3,4) - bcz vocals, its the only moment where you emphasize drum instead of vocals (00:35:474 (2,3) - 00:34:715 (4,5) - 00:36:234 (1,2) - etc.)
  2. 00:51:423 (5) - drum + softclap
  3. 00:51:613 (6) - symmetry and all, but maybe space this out a bit more? new part is coming, would be nice to have a jump here
  4. 01:00:727 (1) - whistle on head
  5. 01:03:575 (1,2,3) - id change the pattern here because 01:04:525 (1,2,3) - here you have the same pattern, but all 3 sounds are stronger and are strong equally, but here 01:03:765 (2,3) - these sounds are both pretty same weak. just doesnt make any sense for me tbh
  6. 01:08:322 (7) - whistle sounds nice
  7. 01:20:474 (7) - 01:14:398 (7) - ^
    wait, wasnt riven's set dq'ed for the same 1-2 jumps? i mean there they were pp and here fun, but concept is still pretty the same?
  • [deetz]
  1. 00:18:006 (6) - drum whistle
  2. 01:03:955 (8,1) - this is kinda way too much lol spacing is mostly equal to 00:22:942 (1,2) - where the gap is 1/1, even after this jump spacing is heavily decreased this harsh movement is really unkewl :|
    apart from that its godlike
  • [Insane]
  1. 00:39:461 (2) - maybe a 1/2 slider like here 00:12:120 (5) - ?
  2. 00:59:018 (1,2) - swap ncs to catch the vocals?
    cute
  • [vinxis]
  1. 00:19:145 (2) - since you decided to follow background sounds only, i think its better to delete this, doesnt make much sense imo
  2. 00:25:980 (1) - ctrl+j maybe? (and then 00:26:740 (2) - ctrl+g this one if you want)
  3. 00:37:373 (2,3,1) - do smth with spacing
  4. 00:56:550 (1) - just put it on 00:56:360 (4) -? current rhythm could work if you mapped everything, but since you dont, its better to simplify it
  5. 01:08:512 (1,2) - i just got a weird idea to end them on 1/3 lol wtf
  6. 01:19:145 - should be mapped as well
  7. 01:29:398 (1,1) - one of these ncs should not be there
  8. 01:31:297 (4,1) - thanks for peepee
    well i wish there were some circles instead of rpt-sliders like 01:14:018 (3) - to emphasize the vocals but oh well
thats it i think, good luck!
Bonsai

Ametrin wrote:

[Bonsai's Insane]
nice sr thx lol
00:06:044 (2) - u think normal-whistle really fit this part? :? yup :!
01:03:006 - maybe put a note at the tail 01:03:196 (5) - ? slider 01:03:765 (6) - feel a bit unexpected since you follow all the way to the vocal nah that wouldn't make any sense since there's not beat there, all the vocal-notes are (almost) stacked, so 01:03:196 (5,6) being regular spacing again shouldn't be an issue for anyone, just standard reading
01:16:866 (2) - why not put some jumps like 01:15:917 (4,5) - to keep the intensity uuuh 1) what you call "jumps" are just circles with regular spacing, a jump would be bigger-than-regular spacing ^^ and 2) putting circles there (which I assume is what you wanted to suggest) wouldn't fit at all bc there are vocals there that have a holding note so it's mapped with a holding slider, it doesn't make a big difference for intensity anyways
aligator gozaimasu!

Bonsai wrote:

box
owait I didn't change anything
ac8129464363

wajinshu wrote:

  • [deetz]
  1. 00:18:006 (6) - drum whistle i'd rather have complete focus on the drum rhythm here
  2. 01:03:955 (8,1) - this is kinda way too much lol spacing is mostly equal to 00:22:942 (1,2) - where the gap is 1/1, even after this jump spacing is heavily decreased this harsh movement is really unkewl :| for now i won't change this, because I wanted this to feel very sudden and that's exactly what I had seemed to achieve from my playtesting. in fact, it's somewhat similar to what i did at 00:39:461 (5,1) - . however, i'll try to ask around a bit and do some more testing of my own though, to be 100% sure. i think there might be some validity in what you're saying here.
    apart from that its godlike thx u 2
VINXIS
ametrin
00:32:436 - no the vocals in both instances r different
01:29:208 - its rly not that hard considering how everything is spaced out


wajinshu
00:19:145 (2) - if u playd the map before looking at it urd proly know why its ther (playability btw)
00:25:980 (1) - y Lol
00:37:373 (2,3,1) - y Lol
00:56:550 (1) - isnt this already stacked on 4
01:08:512 (1,2) - that wud b quite weird
01:19:145 - its jus a breath bro
01:31:297 (4,1) - its 1 jump dude,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


o yea i didnt rly change ametrins first point but i changed the part after

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Topic Starter
Lasse
Ametrin

Ametrin wrote:

M4M

uhhhh this bg... :thinking:

[Easy]
00:20:664 (4) - maybe stop at 00:21:044 - ? feels like you are not following the drum at this part except this slider both work but current is nicer polarity
00:24:272 - this might be clickable for the same reason some rest moments are nice for low diffs and fits transition
01:05:094 (2) - remove this? not strong enough imo are we listening to the same song lol

[Normal]
00:19:335 (3,4) - i don't think it's 00:19:904 (4) - that should be clickable... i mean maybe put two slider here or ctrl+g (just rhythm) melody
00:23:702 (6,7) - there's a sound here so maybe ctrl+g current follows drums better

[Hard]
00:22:942 (1) - i'll ctrl+g here. all point to the top kinda lose impact at here kills the whole movement concept in this part
00:39:461 (1) - sv 1.3 here seems a bit high.. shapes makes it easy and very lenient cause end is so close

[Insane]
looks nice for me but 00:13:069 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - 1 pixel error lol not perfect symmetrical

sorry but deetz's Insane and Expert is really nice :o nothing to say

:)

wajinshu

wajinshu wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/612658
  • [Expert]
  1. 00:31:677 (4,5) - should have lesser spacing instead of 00:31:487 (3,4) - bcz vocals, its the only moment where you emphasize drum instead of vocals (00:35:474 (2,3) - 00:34:715 (4,5) - 00:36:234 (1,2) - etc.) whole map is mainly about emphasis through spacing changes in either direction and matching overall intensity, not always "stronger sound" = higher ds
  2. 00:51:423 (5) - drum + softclap fixed
  3. 00:51:613 (6) - symmetry and all, but maybe space this out a bit more? new part is coming, would be nice to have a jump here angle+spacing fits fine here
  4. 01:00:727 (1) - whistle on head fixed
  5. 01:03:575 (1,2,3) - id change the pattern here because 01:04:525 (1,2,3) - here you have the same pattern, but all 3 sounds are stronger and are strong equally, but here 01:03:765 (2,3) - these sounds are both pretty same weak. just doesnt make any sense for me tbh for this whole buildup pattern vocals get high spacing, so 01:03:955 (3) - too
  6. 01:08:322 (7) - whistle sounds nice takes away from whistle on 01:08:512 - imo, I tried to use them very carefully
  7. 01:20:474 (7) - 01:14:398 (7) - ^ same
    wait, wasnt riven's set dq'ed for the same 1-2 jumps? i mean there they were pp and here fun, but concept is still pretty the same? patterning here follows the song though as it puts low spacing on non melody/non vocal circles instead of just sharp angle jump spam lol.
    also things like 00:18:575 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - are definitely not your typical anime 1-2 jumps

  • [Insane]
  1. 00:39:461 (2) - maybe a 1/2 slider like here 00:12:120 (5) - ? whole part is mapped without any filler rhythm so overmapping one sliderend would be lol
  2. 00:59:018 (1,2) - swap ncs to catch the vocals? current fits better imo, see 00:55:980 (1,2,3) -
    cute
thats it i think, good luck!

thanks!

updated everything and replaced deetz' bg with the same in less fucked up resolution
Doormat
thanks for the detailed replies and sorry for having to put up with me being anal about a few things lol.

i'm happy enough with the mapset as it currently is, so i don't see any reason to not push it forward.
pishifat
tilted me too
Chewin
it's so tilting
Bonsai
these shitposts not being nominations
Battle
Karen
vinxis
00:04:335 (3,4) - no idea why you don't space them it's the same with 00:05:474 (6,7) -
00:09:461 (1) - delete this it doesn't follow sounds you're supposed to follow, probably
00:19:145 (2) - should skip this like the other parts
00:23:702 (3) - 1/1 slider works better with your rhythm logic
00:25:411 - ^ same since there's nothing on the red tick, like 00:30:348 - this one, i like tilting
00:25:221 - this could be clickable imo
00:27:689 (1,2) - if i'm not wrong you should swap nc here, the vocal is a new part
00:39:841 (1,2) - ^
00:44:778 (2,3) - 00:38:892 (2,3) - why are they inconsistent, personally i prefer the second one
00:51:993 - why not keep your concept in this part, it's too normal rn
01:08:512 (1,2,3) - 01:11:550 (1,2,3) - and 01:20:664 (1,2,3) - 01:23:702 (1,2) - this is the only thing i really don't like, don't go too far when you map gimmick stuff, consistency is still a basic mapping concept, you can tilt people with your rhythm or spacing but i just don't accept this. if you do this in different kiais it's acceptable tho but it's a short map
VINXIS
00:04:335 (3,4) - the direction chang4e is supposed to emphasize that, the spacing in that whole aprt isnt to emphasize single accented notes anyway it plays moreso into pitch
00:19:145 - whereeelse do i skip this
00:25:601 - theres a note righte there
00:25:221 - if u meant that this is where i skip as well, let me tell u that this place is completely different because look at how the patterning is spaced out here compared to th epart at 00:19:145 -, the 1 at 19 seconds plays a huge role in pattern playability and making the section more coherent for the player, also y should that b clickable >: /
00:44:778 (2,3) - 00:38:892 (2,3) - i real;ly wouldnt cosndier those 2 parts similar at all considering the first timestamp is much more similar to 00:32:816 - and that part (referring to 00:38:892 (2,3) -) only has similarity in terms of ending a minisection and having 2 piano notes, but it shuts off much more energy than the other 2 timestamps do
00:51:993 - the whole idea is to not map drums so i think it is keeping the concept, i shortened 2 sldiers in this section tho
01:08:512 (1,2,3) - 01:11:550 (1,2,3) - and 01:20:664 (1,2,3) - 01:23:702 (1,2) - its really not gimmicky i mean its ltiaerlly just 3/4 sliders, also there are vocals at each part and they really feel like 3/4 moreso than 1/1 or 1/2 aside for 01:21:044 (2) - where there is a vocal note there

SPOILER
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 63
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.2
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 1

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 1
BeatDivisor: 12
GridSize: 32
TimelineZoom: 1.7

[Metadata]
Title:Natsukoi Hanabi
TitleUnicode:夏恋花火
Artist:chano & 40mP
ArtistUnicode:シャノ & 40mP
Creator:Lasse
Version:VINXIS' Insane
Source:
Tags:Shano 40meterP Panorama Note VINXIS Bonsai deetz
BeatmapID:1383927
BeatmapSetID:650427

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28,360,65474,5,6,0:0:0:0:
468,104,66234,5,2,0:0:0:0:
28,360,66613,1,2,0:0:0:0:
28,360,67183,6,0,P|30:317|39:276,1,85,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
274,134,67563,2,0,P|282:175|285:217,1,85
432,345,67942,2,0,P|394:363|352:371,2,85
307,34,68512,6,0,P|244:40|184:62,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
130,125,68892,2,0,P|109:173|103:266,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
132,324,69272,2,0,P|181:351|386:336,1,255,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
61,113,70221,6,0,P|100:97|142:90,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
305,170,70601,2,0,P|346:176|386:192,1,85
131,323,70980,2,0,P|126:273|132:231,2,85
479,76,71550,6,0,P|416:82|360:113,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
300,192,71930,2,0,P|283:255|297:346,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
408,290,72310,2,0,P|412:226|368:110,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
379,126,72879,1,0,0:0:0:0:
300,192,73069,1,0,0:0:0:0:
380,127,73259,6,0,P|420:137|462:131,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
230,269,73639,2,0,P|189:258|147:264,1,85
264,30,74018,2,0,P|254:71|251:113,2,85
149,133,74588,6,0,P|146:197|164:290,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
198,345,74968,2,0,P|263:372|350:372,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
392,331,75348,2,0,P|456:305|441:249,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
378,207,75727,2,0,P|380:161|395:101,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
288,107,76297,6,0,P|323:52|425:16,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
183,186,76866,2,0,P|196:92|235:1,1,170
223,22,77436,2,0,P|161:35|122:33,1,85
0,107,77816,6,0,L|90:97,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
161,65,78385,2,0,B|158:125|158:125|137:161|137:161|133:229,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
133,229,79335,6,0,P|179:228|218:240,1,85,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
386,351,79715,2,0,P|345:362|302:361,1,85
216,239,80094,2,0,P|221:172|250:127,2,85
429,184,80664,6,0,P|369:204|306:209,1,127.5,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
227,156,81044,2,0,P|165:135|111:137,1,85,2|0,1:0|1:0,1:0:0:0:
38,49,81423,2,0,P|124:37|287:73,1,255,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
402,27,82183,1,0,0:0:0:0:
401,26,82373,6,0,P|417:66|421:108,2,85,2|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
258,247,82942,2,0,P|298:223|351:134,1,127.5
344,157,83322,2,0,P|343:102|332:48,1,85
156,205,83702,6,0,B|151:309|180:262|174:391,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
471,222,84461,2,0,B|465:111|494:158|489:54,1,170,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
488,54,85031,2,0,P|448:66|406:69,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
287,34,85411,6,0,P|236:41|130:147,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
174,384,86170,2,0,P|178:341|180:299,2,85
28,229,86740,6,0,P|95:226|200:184,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
484,229,87499,2,0,P|417:226|312:184,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
321,190,88069,2,0,P|331:247|332:286,1,85,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
190,190,88449,6,0,P|203:125|246:24,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
242,29,89398,2,0,P|174:39|137:40,1,85
287,98,89778,6,0,P|342:84|474:119,1,170,6|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
462,251,90537,2,0,P|407:265|275:230,1,170,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
211,273,91107,1,0,0:0:0:0:
279,333,91297,1,0,0:0:0:0:
287,98,91487,5,6,0:0:0:0:
256,192,91582,12,6,94525,0:0:0:0:
Karen
woah
bite you death
i havent seen an insane with lower sr than hard qualified in a while
Aireu
[Expert]



00:00:348 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,1,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,1,1,2,3,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,1,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,1) - remap :) :) :) 8-) :!:
Len
ignor ds gimmicks r rly hard to read n play but concepts k nic work
ac8129464363
oh
Xinnoh
is it just me or is the timing early, adding 5+ ms would fit better
@bonsai

also vinxis 01:21:044 (2) -
Bonsai
don't think so, it might work better with the snares but most of the bass-beats would sound late then, so it seems alright to me as is
Leiwa
I hope you'll answer this

00:09:272 (1,1,1,1) - why they all have NC? It makes them hard to read and don't do any sense.
00:10:791 (3,1,2,1) - what are these notes? why 3,1,2 have same distance and 1,2,1 have different distance? moreever, 00:11:550 (1) - has more quiet sound than 2, but you put in bigger space, what did you tried to express?
00:17:436 (3,4,1,2) - similar with above one. you put 1/4 and 1/2 with same distance. BUT they don't have same sound.
00:19:145 (2,1,2,1,2) - you broke your patterns. If you wanted to express piano sounds, delete NCs and put 00:20:854 (1,2,1) - in same way, didn't you?
00:23:322 (1) - 00:51:613 (6) - This part looks crude, or put without no thinking. You just followed rhythm, not music. If you did, you can explain the reason why you put each part in this way.
01:05:474 (3) - why this has such a big distance than 01:03:955 (3,3) - ?
01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - you followed drum sounds, at least we look so. but they don't have same distance although have same sounds.

Thanks anyway.
Topic Starter
Lasse

Urushi38 wrote:

I hope you'll answer this sure

00:09:272 (1,1,1,1) - why they all have NC? It makes them hard to read and don't do any sense. nc in that part is structured around snapping changes
00:10:791 (3,1,2,1) - what are these notes? why 3,1,2 have same distance and 1,2,1 have different distance? moreever, 00:11:550 (1) - has more quiet sound than 2, but you put in bigger space, what did you tried to express? are both snare + melody, then00:11:550 (1) - follows the increase in melody + change in drum with a drastic spacing increase
00:17:436 (3,4,1,2) - similar with above one. you put 1/4 and 1/2 with same distance. BUT they don't have same sound. idk how this is a problem, the 1/4 spacing is just part of the map design. also 00:17:721 (4,1,2) - are all snares so idk why they "don't have the same sound"???, then 3 is changing drum again
00:19:145 (2,1,2,1,2) - you broke your patterns. If you wanted to express piano sounds, delete NCs and put 00:20:854 (1,2,1) - in same way, didn't you? nc is following the kick-sanre drums, while piano notes starting from 00:19:335 (1) - (cause they don't stand out much for the 2 combos before that) get high spacing, no idea what your problem with this is
00:23:322 (1) - 00:51:613 (6) - This part looks crude, or put without no thinking. You just followed rhythm, not music. If you did, you can explain the reason why you put each part in this way. are you going to question the placement of each individual object? that's pretty pointless. the part focuses on mapping drums/melody/vocals without any filler rhyth, highlighting changes in the song through spacing changes while keeping the maps partially ambiguous 1/1 - 1/2 spacing concept and the aim+uncomfortable movement concept by using corners and high spacing 1/1 a lot. all this while utilizing some basic symmetry and visual spacing to keep objects organized.
also putting low ds on snares whenever possible (no vocal, not after slider) to highlight them with a spacing change that's not a jump, but not when it's the second snare after the low spacing one since low spacing again would lose its effect => high spacing in that case, see 00:31:487 (3,4,5,6) -

01:05:474 (3) - why this has such a big distance than 01:03:955 (3,3) - ? song builds up a lot + cymbal/ending note of the whole buildup?
01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - you followed drum sounds, at least we look so. but they don't have same distance although have same sounds. "vocal" = big spacing, drum = "normal" spacing (except the start at 01:25:411 (1,2,1,2) - focuses on melody here to transition/work with the more held vocal), comboing is used to make the repeating kick-snare drum pattern stand out like 00:18:575 -

Thanks anyway same.
Leiwa
Sadly I'm too noob to get your idea, only got you thought something.
Btw, thanks for sincere answer. Hope your map get right rate.
_handholding
Not even caring about the SR but the spread seems a bit messed up with the way it's all composed; talking about normal, hard, Bonsai's Insane. Individually you would refer to Bonsai's diff as an insane and the hard as a hard from the composition of difficulty elements and what not. But together on the same set they don't collabrate well to make a spread fitting to those looking to progress in terms of difficulty. The hard is only labelled as a hard because it doesn't use many increased spacings, it's complexity, object density, and the skill required to read would make it an light insane/insane. Bonsai's diff itself is easier but only to those that are used to playing a plethora of patterns without DS, heck it even has a higher AR.

So my point is that where the 2 diffs may be acceptable as stand alone diffs they do not server well to make a well progressive spread spread. Neither of the two serve as an appropriate step up from a normal and even go on to confuse players as with the difficulty naming tied with the SRs (Most of the players of this skill level are pretty much babies). I would think it would be better for the player base if a new diff was added after normal and having a much more dense rhythm to Bonsai's insane.
Natsu
TBH bonsai's diff is easier to play than the hard and if you label it as Insane then the hard should be labed like that too.
Topic Starter
Lasse
@Kisses: The gap between normal - hard is fine though and Bonsai's diff is just an additional difficulty for people to pick from. The low spacing high sv concept is something you wouldn't expect from a hard, whereas the hard doesn't use any "complex" ideas, which is why the difficulties are named like that.

My difficulties were designed to make a proper spread with normal progression on their own, while the GD Insanes provide some different interpretation of the song/concepts for people to pick from, which I think is really cute.

@Natsu: Please consider that even if you might not actively play anymore, you have played this game a lot, so you have way more experience and a different skillset from people actually expected to play the hard.
If you can deal with higher ar and movement on sliders often being much faster than between objects the diff might be easier to you simply for density+ar reasons, doesn't mean it will be easier for the target audience of hards.


tl;dr: Difficulties are named according to concepts they use. Spread is unusual but fine, still offers the expected progression within non-gd diffs anyways.
Monstrata
Agree with Natsu. Bonsai's Insane is easier than the Hard lmao. Higher AR is not an indicator of a map's inherent difficulty. Slapping AR 10 on a Normal doesn't make the map more difficult if one can already read the patterns, it's just a poor choice of AR. Your argument has to assume that the current AR fits the difficulty of the map. That's debatable. Anyways, the difference between AR 7 and AR 8 is only 150 ms which is a very small difference.

The difficulty of Bonsai's Insane comes from the slider speed, and to some degree, the jumps/flowbreaks. But most patterns are easy to read. Maybe not 01:33:955 (4,1,2) - but meh.

I really think the problem is the Hard difficulty. You use a lot of patterns that are difficult to read, and the AR only serves to complicate it.

Stuff like: 00:14:968 (8,1) - Is hard to predict due to the similarity in pattern. But the rhythm clearly shifts.
01:15:727 (4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is even worse, because it's basically Kuroko mapping now. The pattern is basically forcing players to play stacks using both 1/2 and 1/1 rhythms in very short succession. The pattern makes sense on an Insane of course, but this is not a skillset you should expect from players for a Hard difficulty. This is introducing visual patterns that "suggest" a certain rhythm. The partial overlap stacks indicating 1/2, and the perfect stacks indicating 1/1. Actually, you should check some of the replays, you'll notice people who are between 500-900pp mess up a lot on these places.

Another thing that you wouldn't expect on Hard is anti-jumps like: 01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,3,1) - These force players to suddenly slow down their movement immensely, which really doesn't fit especially since you've set up these patterns to encourage players to take advantage of slider-head leniency. 01:28:829 (2,3,4) - Is what you should have expected on a Hard.

01:29:778 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - Variable spacing is also really confusing, especially since the movement is on red ticks. Not to mention they cause players to have to make really small movements in between 2>3 and 4>5 which makes aiming even worse. You can't expect Hard players to aim in the middle of the pattern, They will try and click the middle of each circle. If you look at some replays you'll see this really slight movement.

Not to mention, 01:30:158 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - is really dense for a Hard too... I mean, 6 1/2 circles in a row followed by a 5-note stream. This is not something you'd expect on a Hard either...

I don't think Bonsai's Insane is the issue, I think it's the Hard.




Also what is with this background... Like, it's literally a portrait image that's sideways and it doesn't even look like the girl is lying or something cuz of the way gravity works...
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