CrystilonZ wrote:
Here's the thing tho; the square pattern 01:05:020 (2,3,4,5) - was nerfed before cuz it was too huge of a spike. With that nerf I now believe that the spacing here is okay and it flows into the triple there well. The rhythm you suggested makes the strongest drum in the set on 01:06:197 (4) - 's head unclickable so eeeh im not really into that. Imo the rhythm rn is okay considering both emphasis and playability. as i explained, my issue with this is the out-of-place acceleration that is required for 01:05:805 (1,2,3) - which constitutes an undue diff spike. to avoid this, increasing the spacing between 01:05:609 (5,1) - seems like the best idea since the degree of acceleration needed will be reduced.
regarding 01:06:001 (3,4) - this is weird because you mapped the hai (01:06:001 - ) and then 2 drums (01:06:197 - ) the same way, when it makes sense to differentiate them since theyre different instruments. if you don't want to make the player hold down on the HAI, how about making both drums at 01:06:197 (4) - clickable since they're both rather strong?
And yes I still believe that the square doesn't stand out lol. Nonetheless gonna nerf it a bit and I hope this middleground is more acceptable for you xd. All my maps have these difficulty plateau kinda thing because of emphsasis and stuff: hence the large spacings. The patterns in the kiai are bigger than those in the verses (ea. 01:01:883 (1,2,3) - 01:03:060 (8,1,2,4,5) - ) to support the larger spacings.
as i explained, the spacing of this square pattern is not the problem. the issue is that you never use similar angles or visuals anywhere else in the map. if you put an X shape jump, or a more back-and-forth type, or even a pattern with a wide angle like a diamond (http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8289311) then it would fit better and this issue would be resolved.
refer back to my previous post about why i believe that the angles and visuals are a problem rather than the spacing, and sorry if i didnt make that clear enough.
also fixed color hax in all diffs.
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Topic Starter
This argument is way too long lol
Well I hope this will be my last reply regarding this matter.
The map atm plays like this: the speed gradually builds up starting at 01:04:628 (1) - then reaches the peak at 01:06:001 (3,4) - then suddenly drops with the 0.75x SV slider 01:06:393 (1) - and lastly returns to normal at 01:06:785 (1) - .
Now if I were to change 01:06:197 (4) - to two circles I would need to do something like 00:59:922 (1,2,3) - to make the map playable and not too cancerous, but that is not something I want because right now the sudden speed drop at 01:06:393 (1) - is emphasizing the start of the second kiai part really well.
and with the rhythm you suggested i could do something like lengthening the 01:06:001 (3,8) - slider to 1/2 and increase the SV to keep the momentum going but that's not something I want either because firstly, as I said, it makes the strongest drum in the set unclickable and secondly the circle at 01:06:295 needs even higher DS than 01:05:805 (1,2) - which is a really inappropriately huge diff spike.
Tbh this is all about the emphasis choice which is subjective af. You might want to emphasize the hai sound but I prioritize 01:06:393 (1) - more. I admit that this rhythm makes the emphasis on the HAI thing a bit weak but with all things considered I still think this is the best choice xd.
Gonna reply to the other part later. I have stuff to do rn xd ok i'm back and it's 3am woohoo
If we're solely considering the visuals, there are a number of square based patterns bth, but most of them being 1/4 stuff lmao like 01:05:020 (2,3,4,5) - 01:12:863 (2,3,4,5) - and also some stuff are a bit hard to identify as a square like 01:00:118 (3,1,3,5) - 01:06:393 (1,1,3,5) -
Anyway uhh speaking about gameplay the square pattern here is one of those with circular flow and with 90 degrees stuff. Well maybe this is the only pattern that uses the circular flow, 90 degrees angles and high spacing together. Nevertheless I don't think the pattern sticks out that much visually or gameplay-wise. The reason is probably because lots of patterns in the kiai use these circular flow high spacing concept as well like 01:00:903 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - 01:07:177 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - except that they are triangle-square-ish stuff eeh idk. Well that's my best attempt at explaining why the square doesn't stick out that much xd.
The thing that has been keeping this argument going for so long is that these are very subjective issues. You have reasons to back your argument up and so do I. This has been a cycle of this is not okay because of A and this is okay because of B and repeat lmao and I don't expect you to understand every shit I map tbh cuz sometimes I don't even understand myself as well
K that's all
Well I hope this will be my last reply regarding this matter.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The acceleration is not out of place and the diff spike is not undue. They are both intentional to emphasize the transition. Also, imo the acceleration atm is fine and comfortable to play already.Naotoshi wrote:
my issue with this is the out-of-place acceleration that is required for 01:05:805 (1,2,3) - which constitutes an undue diff spike
Well this matter has been brought up several times tbh. You can read my replies to these if you view my previous replies to mods and stuff. Anyway uhh take my word for this: I have tried every rhythm I can with my mediocre mapping skill and here's why the other ones don't work as well as this one.Naotoshi wrote:
regarding 01:06:001 (3,4) - this is weird because you mapped the hai (01:06:001 - ) and then 2 drums (01:06:197 - ) the same way, when it makes sense to differentiate them since theyre different instruments. if you don't want to make the player hold down on the HAI, how about making both drums at 01:06:197 (4) - clickable since they're both rather strong?
The map atm plays like this: the speed gradually builds up starting at 01:04:628 (1) - then reaches the peak at 01:06:001 (3,4) - then suddenly drops with the 0.75x SV slider 01:06:393 (1) - and lastly returns to normal at 01:06:785 (1) - .
Now if I were to change 01:06:197 (4) - to two circles I would need to do something like 00:59:922 (1,2,3) - to make the map playable and not too cancerous, but that is not something I want because right now the sudden speed drop at 01:06:393 (1) - is emphasizing the start of the second kiai part really well.
and with the rhythm you suggested i could do something like lengthening the 01:06:001 (3,8) - slider to 1/2 and increase the SV to keep the momentum going but that's not something I want either because firstly, as I said, it makes the strongest drum in the set unclickable and secondly the circle at 01:06:295 needs even higher DS than 01:05:805 (1,2) - which is a really inappropriately huge diff spike.
Tbh this is all about the emphasis choice which is subjective af. You might want to emphasize the hai sound but I prioritize 01:06:393 (1) - more. I admit that this rhythm makes the emphasis on the HAI thing a bit weak but with all things considered I still think this is the best choice xd.
If we're solely considering the visuals, there are a number of square based patterns bth, but most of them being 1/4 stuff lmao like 01:05:020 (2,3,4,5) - 01:12:863 (2,3,4,5) - and also some stuff are a bit hard to identify as a square like 01:00:118 (3,1,3,5) - 01:06:393 (1,1,3,5) -
Anyway uhh speaking about gameplay the square pattern here is one of those with circular flow and with 90 degrees stuff. Well maybe this is the only pattern that uses the circular flow, 90 degrees angles and high spacing together. Nevertheless I don't think the pattern sticks out that much visually or gameplay-wise. The reason is probably because lots of patterns in the kiai use these circular flow high spacing concept as well like 01:00:903 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - 01:07:177 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - except that they are triangle-square-ish stuff eeh idk. Well that's my best attempt at explaining why the square doesn't stick out that much xd.
The thing that has been keeping this argument going for so long is that these are very subjective issues. You have reasons to back your argument up and so do I. This has been a cycle of this is not okay because of A and this is okay because of B and repeat lmao and I don't expect you to understand every shit I map tbh cuz sometimes I don't even understand myself as well
K that's all
Topic Starter
hello nao?
mochi mochi?
mochi mochi?
hey nao you're an all star
mochi mochi?
? i already explained my view 4 different ways and got an answer like 'no it's fine, i said it's good so it's good' so my veto is here still lol
Topic Starter
I've explained a lot as well why I think they're fine lol
Yea okay keep your veto it's totally fine to have different thoughts
but next time on whatever map pleaseeee make it clear so that the mapper doesn't need to wait for like almost 4 weeks
Yea okay keep your veto it's totally fine to have different thoughts
but next time on whatever map pleaseeee make it clear so that the mapper doesn't need to wait for like almost 4 weeks
can you guys disscuss together in game and find the solution in better way which both can agree instead of keep your mindset each other?
SPOILER
10:39 CrystilonZ: hoi mir
10:39 Mir: hoi
10:40 CrystilonZ: r u free for a check i'm kinda desperate rn lmao
10:40 CrystilonZ: if not can you look at a pattern i want your input
10:40 CrystilonZ: or maybe two patterns
10:40 Mir: ermm not a full check but i can take a look
10:40 CrystilonZ: oki
10:40 *CrystilonZ is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1139533 Satoshi with Pikachu (CV:Matsumoto Rica/Otani Ikue) - Alola!!]
10:40 CrystilonZ: the highest diff
10:40 Mir: okay
10:41 CrystilonZ: 01:05:020 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - and 01:10:118 (3,4,5,6) -
10:42 Mir: 01:05:805 (1,2,3) - this seems a bit much
10:42 Mir: especially with how 00:59:922 (1,2,3) - was spaced
10:42 Mir: 01:02:275 (3,4,5) - this somehow is also higher spacing than the former which is stronger so i don't get that either
10:43 Mir: 01:10:118 (3,4,5,6) - this is fine
10:43 CrystilonZ: o so
10:43 CrystilonZ: 00:59:922 (1,2,3) - the (3) has slow SV tho so idk about that
10:44 Mir: doesn't matter o.o
10:44 CrystilonZ: hmm probably gonna nerf the spaced triple a bit i guess
10:44 Mir: change of movement gives more emphasis anyways
10:44 Mir: so if you have a spaced triple into super slow slider that slider gets a lot of emphasis
10:44 CrystilonZ: and also cancerous af lmfao
10:45 Mir: true lol
10:45 CrystilonZ: ya did that on 01:06:393 (1) - but 00:58:648 (1,1) - is pretty cancerous already lmfao
10:45 Mir: whats the pokemon in the back
10:45 CrystilonZ: which one
10:45 Mir: ... there's more than one?
10:45 CrystilonZ: o
10:45 CrystilonZ: solgaleo
10:45 Mir: 00:58:648 (1) - also consider ending this on the white tick please xD
10:46 CrystilonZ: considered and nop blue tick is t a s t i e r
10:46 Mir: what is recovery time anymore
10:46 CrystilonZ: nao kinda popped bcuz of the square and the spaced stream lol
10:46 Mir: personally i think [http://i.imgur.com/5SQFCD9.png this] is spicier
10:47 Mir: square is kind of out of place but nothing major
10:47 CrystilonZ: aw
10:47 CrystilonZ: why don't just go 1/16
10:47 Mir: the spaced stream is yea
10:47 Mir: that is 1/16
10:47 CrystilonZ: hm hm hm
10:47 CrystilonZ: alright gonna nerf the spaced
10:47 CrystilonZ: o is the square out of place
10:47 Mir: yeah like
10:47 Mir: it's the only square
10:48 Mir: but not only that
10:48 Mir: it's the only explicitly geometrical shape in the whole map
10:48 Mir: circle-wise at least
10:48 Mir: the reason it's only KIND OF out of place is 01:05:020 (2,3,4,5,1) -
10:48 CrystilonZ: rly? lol i always use triangles
10:48 Mir: yeah but not squares
10:48 Mir: i mean
10:48 Mir: triangles like
10:48 CrystilonZ: maybe those triangles blend in and become sharp angles i guess
10:49 Mir: everyone knows them
10:49 Mir: yeah they just
10:49 Mir: nobody cares
10:49 Mir: but squares are something you don't see as often so they're more noticeable
10:49 CrystilonZ: oo
10:49 CrystilonZ: ic ic
10:50 CrystilonZ: thanks a bunch mama mir <3
10:50 Mir: noperobelemoe
10:50 CrystilonZ: post this on the thread for 2 free kudos
10:50 Mir: oh BOY
10:50 *Mir is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1134359 Satoshi with Pikachu (CV:Matsumoto Rica/Otani Ikue) - Alola!! [Z-Insane]]
10:50 Mir: i mean
10:51 Mir: ./savelog
10:39 Mir: hoi
10:40 CrystilonZ: r u free for a check i'm kinda desperate rn lmao
10:40 CrystilonZ: if not can you look at a pattern i want your input
10:40 CrystilonZ: or maybe two patterns
10:40 Mir: ermm not a full check but i can take a look
10:40 CrystilonZ: oki
10:40 *CrystilonZ is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1139533 Satoshi with Pikachu (CV:Matsumoto Rica/Otani Ikue) - Alola!!]
10:40 CrystilonZ: the highest diff
10:40 Mir: okay
10:41 CrystilonZ: 01:05:020 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4) - and 01:10:118 (3,4,5,6) -
10:42 Mir: 01:05:805 (1,2,3) - this seems a bit much
10:42 Mir: especially with how 00:59:922 (1,2,3) - was spaced
10:42 Mir: 01:02:275 (3,4,5) - this somehow is also higher spacing than the former which is stronger so i don't get that either
10:43 Mir: 01:10:118 (3,4,5,6) - this is fine
10:43 CrystilonZ: o so
10:43 CrystilonZ: 00:59:922 (1,2,3) - the (3) has slow SV tho so idk about that
10:44 Mir: doesn't matter o.o
10:44 CrystilonZ: hmm probably gonna nerf the spaced triple a bit i guess
10:44 Mir: change of movement gives more emphasis anyways
10:44 Mir: so if you have a spaced triple into super slow slider that slider gets a lot of emphasis
10:44 CrystilonZ: and also cancerous af lmfao
10:45 Mir: true lol
10:45 CrystilonZ: ya did that on 01:06:393 (1) - but 00:58:648 (1,1) - is pretty cancerous already lmfao
10:45 Mir: whats the pokemon in the back
10:45 CrystilonZ: which one
10:45 Mir: ... there's more than one?
10:45 CrystilonZ: o
10:45 CrystilonZ: solgaleo
10:45 Mir: 00:58:648 (1) - also consider ending this on the white tick please xD
10:46 CrystilonZ: considered and nop blue tick is t a s t i e r
10:46 Mir: what is recovery time anymore
10:46 CrystilonZ: nao kinda popped bcuz of the square and the spaced stream lol
10:46 Mir: personally i think [http://i.imgur.com/5SQFCD9.png this] is spicier
10:47 Mir: square is kind of out of place but nothing major
10:47 CrystilonZ: aw
10:47 CrystilonZ: why don't just go 1/16
10:47 Mir: the spaced stream is yea
10:47 Mir: that is 1/16
10:47 CrystilonZ: hm hm hm
10:47 CrystilonZ: alright gonna nerf the spaced
10:47 CrystilonZ: o is the square out of place
10:47 Mir: yeah like
10:47 Mir: it's the only square
10:48 Mir: but not only that
10:48 Mir: it's the only explicitly geometrical shape in the whole map
10:48 Mir: circle-wise at least
10:48 Mir: the reason it's only KIND OF out of place is 01:05:020 (2,3,4,5,1) -
10:48 CrystilonZ: rly? lol i always use triangles
10:48 Mir: yeah but not squares
10:48 Mir: i mean
10:48 Mir: triangles like
10:48 CrystilonZ: maybe those triangles blend in and become sharp angles i guess
10:49 Mir: everyone knows them
10:49 Mir: yeah they just
10:49 Mir: nobody cares
10:49 Mir: but squares are something you don't see as often so they're more noticeable
10:49 CrystilonZ: oo
10:49 CrystilonZ: ic ic
10:50 CrystilonZ: thanks a bunch mama mir <3
10:50 Mir: noperobelemoe
10:50 CrystilonZ: post this on the thread for 2 free kudos
10:50 Mir: oh BOY
10:50 *Mir is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1134359 Satoshi with Pikachu (CV:Matsumoto Rica/Otani Ikue) - Alola!! [Z-Insane]]
10:50 Mir: i mean
10:51 Mir: ./savelog
We talked about the pop things and Crystil is changin things I think ye
Topic Starter
FREE KUDOS
alrighty nerfed the spaced stream and make the square not a square i guess
alrighty nerfed the spaced stream and make the square not a square i guess
k stuff seems to be fixed
Topic Starter
\o/ thx a lot pentori
placeholder, gonna see after work
Yosh, lets see this in qualified
Topic Starter
omg omg omg omg
Thank you so much xinely <3
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Thank you so much xinely <3
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Ayyyyy... Congratz <3
omg finally
weeeee~
congratz!
congratz boiiiii 
Congrulation-Z!
wow congrats, it took some times
and that nullghost's art tho
and that nullghost's art tho
placeholder
o no
hype is real
Topic Starter
thanks a bunch everyone o/
Congrats crys!!!
eyy congrats!