CrumpetFiddler wrote:

as requested in Crumpey's mod queue

cols = 1|2|3|4

General, Easy, Normal

General
Letterboxing + countdown should be turned off sorted


Easy(Mod)

00:07:500 (7500|3,7800|2) - control + J, fits pitch better but the sounds are descending
00:16:800 - perhaps this? https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7904074 rearranged slightly
00:23:400 (23400|1,26100|1) - youve ignored col 2 for a long time, perhaps re-arrange the notes so that col 2 isnt as left out? fixed

Normal(Mod) I think you mean hard

00:01:350 (1350|2) - move to col 2 to prevent jack ( shouldnt really matter ) sure
00:29:850 (29850|1) - consider moving to col 1 thought about it, kept it at 2 for repeating sounds
00:39:600 (39600|1) - move to col 3 to make it feel different (also doesnt matter but imo makes it feel cooler) sure w/e lmao

I checked insane but i couldnt find anything ;-; nice

Didnt expect to see you here ^u^, struggled to find much to change, solid stuff
Starred~ thanks

FruityEnLoops wrote:

real short random mod

[General / Tags]
- Typing "8-bit" leads you to search 8bit. You should remove it from the tags. tbf I just robbed the tags from the ranked diff but sure
- Toggle off Letterboxing / Widescreen support in song setup sorted (even though widescreen makes no difference)
- Hitsounds are too low. hitsounds will be done nearer the ranking point
- You should make a Normal diff, it would make the mapset more solid. that kinda ruins the SR gap spread though

[Easy]
00:39:600 (39600|0) - Change this into a slider that makes a whole beat.
There's a lack of sliders in this diff, still great diff. LNs in easy diffs are questionable, but yeah fixed

[Hard]
00:11:700 (11700|3) - This should be a slider, following the "wooo" (or whatever this is xD) I'd rather avoid putting short LNs in places like this since this is already quite difficult for players to hit at this rank
00:14:700 (14700|3) - ^
etc.

[Insane]
00:39:600 (39600|2,39600|0,39600|1) - Idea I've taken this idea for hard, and I'd rather leave the current pattern for insane as the ending of each diff increases by 1

Bonsai wrote:

whoa 👀
good luck with this set! :3

vipto from the future wrote:

sweet dude, all power to you!

DustMoon wrote:

Hi~Hydria
1|2|3|4|

Easy

00:16:950 (16950|0,17100|3) - ,00:17:400 (17400|0,17550|3) - is not same pitch ,plz try(1,4)(2,4) rearranged this section so it makes more sense now

Good luck!

Tofu1222 wrote:

Hi, NM As requested in the Canpoint Modding queue

1|2|3|4

Insane

from 00:04:800 - to 00:06:000 - u should catch 00:05:100 (5100|0,5100|3,5100|1) - 00:05:550 (5550|3,5550|2) - as double notes to keep the pattern u made before (also from 00:09:600 - to 00:10:500 -) these sections are kept different due to the minor shift in the change of music to signal the ending of a small verse I guess would be the easiest way to explain it

00:10:800 (10800|1,10800|0,10800|2) - delete one note, maybe in column 2, it should have same number of notes as the ones after it (also 00:15:600 (15600|2,15600|1,15600|0) - ) the one at 10sec will stay due to it being another shift into a different part of the song, but I'll remove on at 15sec

00:10:800 (10800|0) - 00:12:300 (12300|2) - 00:12:900 (12900|1) - 00:13:200 (13200|0) - 00:14:700 (14700|2) - 00:15:300 (15300|3) - and etc. i also suggest these LNs be made 1/2 LNs because they have a little bit different sound with other 1/4 LNs, and they are longer than others accepted

The above three should be applied to the last part of this diff once u apply them.

00:29:775 - 00:25:125 - 00:24:825 - u miss note added

00:27:450 (27450|2) - dont use LN in this part, just keep the pattern u use.okay

That's all.
Nice Song, and since I am busy these days I only have limited time to get online. Sorry for short mod. Good Luck! Your previous maps are also good

thanks for the mod

Nevertary wrote:

hello hydria o/

NM

Easy

00:39:300 (39300|2) - maybe change to 1/1 or 1/2 LN sure

Insane

00:08:400 (8400|0) - maybe move to col 4 sure
great difff >w<thanks o3o

rly great mapping style x'D, good luck thanks for the mod!

PnX wrote:

[Insane]

1. 00:18:450 (18450|0) - Maybe change it into 1/2 LN for represent this sound~ done
2. 00:21:375 - 00:26:025 - 00:28:725 - Missed? or maybe it's too low? too quiet
3. 00:23:700 - 00:25:650 - Use 1/8 pattern here? I can hear 1/8 sound here. done
4. 00:39:600 - Imo, maybe using only double note to represent here is better for me but in the same way, I prefer four-note chord here too~ each diff has a corresponding number of LNs here, going from easiest to hardest. 3rd diff = 3 LNs

That's it~ GL! thanks

Maxus wrote:

pls not another 30s x.x last one i promise

[General]
So, I want to say that the naming of Easy diff to Hard diff isn't allowed here, you must change the Easy to normal diff because the RC actually needs you to have diff naming in consecutive order instead of jumping. after some careful research I did find this rule which essentially states that if it shows easy it should be labelled as such, however after looking through mania's history of labelled diffs when it comes to E/H/I mapsets, I will change it to normal for now.

[Easy (well it needs to be normal)]
00:05:700 (5700|1) - While it seems you want to structure based on trill, but this note felt have higher pitch so col 2 felt it doesn't sync really well with previous note, try move to col 3 instead? i dont feel like it has a higher pitch myself but for new players it would prob be easier on 3 anyway so changed
00:14:700 - Think you should make the pattern the same as 00:13:200 - because seeing how you structured 00:10:800 (10800|0,11100|3,11250|1,11400|2,11700|0,12000|3,12150|1,12300|2) - makes me think you want to make the pattern same every 2 times and then move to different pattern. If it's not your intention, then makes the same pattern different. i think it might be an accident i actually can't remmeber but i forgot to read this entire section before i made edits so i hope what sits in position now suffices
00:34:500 - same as what i said at 00:05:700 (5700|1) - same

[Hard]
00:07:650 - Actually i felt its really lacking if you don't add this note since the pitch notes at 00:07:500 (7500|0,7500|3,7650|0,7800|3,7800|1,7950|3,7950|2) - felt like they are unite that it needs to be same in note amount. made it more PR as well
00:12:000 - Try http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8574618 , because I kinda find that 00:12:300 - supposed to be lower than 00:12:150 - but somehow it direct to the right side which kinda reversing the pitch. it also makes more symmetry with your current pattern imo. sure that's fine
00:16:950 - Same like before same tbh fam
00:28:050 (28050|1,28125|2) - Make this the same pattern as 00:27:825 (27825|1,27900|2) - kinda redundant imo since the first one has clap in it so they actually different instrument. Try switch column between 00:27:750 (27750|3,27900|2) - ? so just adjust the patterning here got it
00:36:450 - 00:36:750 - Same as 00:07:650 - , and this time 00:36:750 - is inconsistent with 00:07:800 - (yeah, 00:08:100 - inconsistent with 00:36:900 - too so i kinda a bit confused here wkwk) call me mr inconsistent (sorted)

[Insane]
00:09:750 (9750|2) - Felt like you need to move to col 4 so it would have same column with the triple above, since the double and triple actually have secondary instrument with exact same sound similar with how you mapped 00:05:700 (5700|1,5700|0,5850|1,5850|0) - ok reworked it so it fits better
00:10:350 (10350|0,10350|1) - Now this one doesn't fit to be same column with 00:10:200 (10200|1,10200|0) - due to obvious differences. try http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8574707 , (the jack is alright imo in case you worry, since it does actually get countered by 00:10:950 (10950|3,11100|3,11250|3) - errr i kinda already fixed this doing the other point still check if it's fine tho
00:14:400 - As much as you want the structure here, but i find it rather too tricky at this point because you keep the stack structure too long starting from 00:13:350 (13350|2,13500|2,13650|2,13950|2,14100|2) - , so try http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8574808 to give more breathing room? the problem is the pattern i have rn works a lot better PR wise, however I have altered it slightly so it still fits PR wise but isn't as damaging to the 3rd column finger
00:18:900 - Same as above yoooooooooooooooooooooooo
00:20:850 - Trill material sound you have here, like 00:26:850 - maybe, but different trill patterning done some trill but altered the end due to another layer of instruments coming in and breaking that trill sound up
00:38:550 - Same as 00:09:750 (9750|2) - ｓａｍｅ

Call me back~

Feerum wrote:

As i said, Monday. it's tuesday somewhere in the world

[Normal]
Nothing to say.

[Hard]
Is there a reason why all these notes here 00:04:800 (4800|2,4950|2,5100|0,5250|0,5700|0,5850|0,6000|1,6150|1) - are mapped as jack but in the middle of these notes, 00:05:400 (5400|2,5550|3) - these two not? It sounds like it should be here another one so consider to move 00:05:400 (5400|2) - to 4 the non jack there is because of the stronger sound that 00:05:550 (5550|3) - entails, being a higher pitch than anything else in this section therefore deserving its own non jacking column, forces it to be shown as an outlier

Same thing happens here 00:34:200 (34200|2,34350|3) - . (did you copy/paste this part? looks exactly like at the beginning lmao) copy-paste what the song copy-pastes

Additionally, these jacks here 00:13:950 (13950|0,14550|0,15750|0) - seem a bit random placed. Like.. the sound isn't even same. fixed the first one, second one is justified by the exact same sound playing on 00:14:400 (14400|1,14550|1) - but I moved it over one column to better represent the high pitch the note contains

[Insane]
This is so simple mapped that i really can't find anything that must be changed. I don't know if I should be offended or not

Weber wrote:

Hello, I have some quality concerns that I think need addressing before this set goes through to ranked.



General:

The difficulty spread is WAY too huge between difficulties. People who would come from comfortably the Normal difficulty would have to spend significantly longer improving compared to other sets before they were even capable of understanding some of the complex patterns used in the Hard. The difference in difficulty, density and complexity are just way too harsh, and there should be a difficulty between them, a TRUE normal difficulty, which the song is fully capable of supporting. Well you should consider these facts too:

1.that this is actually really short song that even new player doesn't need to focus too much into the pattern to finish the difficulty. playing 40 seconds compared with TV size or full ver is really different and you should know that. it is also one major factor in determining whether the gap is fit in or not.

2.This is High BPM song to begin with, combine with the fact that this song is actually feature awkward composing and complexity being uphold everywhere like a mushy mushy sound i literally hear at middle without stop. forcing to fit the diff just for spread isn't really a great idea as the pattern will be forced to be in within the range gap instead of expressing the song in more optimal way.

3.You ask him to make normal diff, and yet The Gap is already consistent within each diff, it is equal without any inbalance between each difficulty, the fact that you want another normal diff will make the gap Inconsistent between hard and insane difficulty which produce even more awkward problem. (unless if you ask him to make another diff after hard diff, but I don't think it's optimal and more like subjective instead of intersubjective.)

4.I'm in belief that newcomers have really fast learning curve to compensate their improvement in the game that already have so many content and already been multiple years in the public face.. as this game and other similar vsrg have more and more content to play, the easier newcomers actually strive to get better compared the past content which only few to begin with. Having too strict gap doesn't really have any beneficial purposes as far as i see combined with previous fact.

Hard:

I've already been through this in discord, but I wanted to do a comprehensive list of all inappropriate 1/6th note usage due to insignificant synth sfx that probably shouldn't be mapped to, and ones that SHOULD stay mapped, because there is a significant difference between some of these that shouldn't be ignored.

00:11:800 (11800|1) - 00:16:600 (16600|1) - 00:19:000 (19000|1) - During all of these notes, there is a kinda "wiggly" synth noise, which is the only audible sound other than the held "main" synth (for example, held from 00:11:700 - to 00:11:850 -). All of these notes are unacceptable for two reasons:

1. They are barely audible compared to the main synth, which leads to players feeling as though they are hitting "dead notes" which aren't mapped to anything. I think it will be really awkward if the player can't actually hear any differences of song section between 00:01:200 - and 00:10:800 - where there suddenly appear so many grace noises and even more complex ice cream noises happened. If players notice the differences then they will notice immediately that some grace pattern will appear. like without even opening editor i can realize just from the song that the map content will feature many grace notes across the pattern, maybe it's awkward for you, but the song itself is awkward, so does the map, afterall mapper follow the song right?

2. Even if these sfx sounds are audible, there are no specific sounds that I can hear that call for these notes to be snapped to SPECIFICALLY these 1/6th lines. In fact, if i'm hearing correctly the "apex" of the wiggle sfx all happen on 1/4th snaps (00:11:700 - 00:11:775 - and 00:11:850 -) which make the 1/6th snap usage extremely inappropriate. hear 00:11:700 (11700|3,11700|2,11800|1,11850|2) - carefully, these 3 sounds are 1 package which features "birdy?" song that been patterned consistently everytime there's double and 1/6 there. There isn't even need to slow down it to notice those birdie sound even with the song's complexity.

(As an example of good appropriate note placement on sfx in this song, 00:13:500 (13500|2,13575|1) - has a distinct sfx sound on each snap here which the above mentioned notes all really don't.) I'm quite sure the 1/6 even more audible tbh as the birdie sound have higher pitch compared with fx low pitch which quite low.

As a solution i'd like to see the 1/6th note removed in all of these cases, and for the doubles that come before it (for example 00:11:700 (11700|3,11700|2) - ) to include a LN in some form to better represent the held synth noises here. Then you want the player to jump from "without 1/6+" pattern to all various grace snap at hardest diff? as i said before, the gap is balance even if people seeing it huge because it teach to handle simplified complex snap to handle even more awkward snap in upcoming difficulty.

Additionally, i'd like to bring attention to some of the inconsistent double usage when it comes to distinctive synth noises in this map.

For the first 20 seconds of the map, you use doubles to accentuate the "main" synth noises in the map while using singles for the background, which is fine. However, there are some isntances where this isn't the case, which I think takes away from the map a lot.

00:07:050 (7050|2,7200|1,7200|0,7350|2) - As mentioned in discord, the usage of singles on the main synth sounds here and the double on the non-main synth sounds is pretty weird, however I see the point you gave, that you didn't want players to have to play 6 1/2 doubles in a row, which is fine. I'd like some changes to be made however to make this section a little more consistent. Instead of just swapping the density for these notes (00:07:050 (7050|2,7200|1,7200|0,7350|2), consider removing 00:07:200 (7200|0). Having them all be singles would make for an easier lead-in for the 4 doublets (which at this point in the map is the most dense pattern, as it should be). That would make it kinda inconsistent with the rest of other patterns or layering,as the single 1/2 will be too long without any double presents when other similar section doesn't. I don't really see any definitive fact either that this actually pose issues for player at this level,so i still don't see benefit from this.

I'd also like to see a double on 00:08:100 - since the synth noise here is exactly the same as the double at 00:08:400 - and is pretty distinctly different from the note at 00:08:250. I believe it want to differentiate the layering usage from 00:07:500 (7500|0,7500|3,7650|3,7650|1,7800|2,7800|0,7950|1,7950|2) - , because as you see, the 4 double is extremely high pitch while this double is low in comparison, and it won't make sense in rythmic layer usage. and 00:08:400 - actually already different section signified by thick white line that occurs every 4/4, so it already tells you something.

Even if you don't agree with anything I've said above (which you really should), in this difficulty's current state, through the use of unrelenting 1/2 double note usage and VERY QUESTIONABLE 1/6th note usage in the section before the Kiai, the Kiai section feels less difficult than the entire map before it by not utilizing doublets on the EXTREMELY LOUD BASS SYNTH every 2/1 white tick starting from 00:20:700 - (which it REALLY should). Although you mentioned this would increase the SR to about 2.9*, this really shouldn't be a problem if you make a REAL normal difficulty. As I said multiple time before, the 1/6 is obvious for birdie sound consistency as the sound actually comes out in 1 packaging instead of separated. It supposed to be clearly heard in the first place.

Extremely loud bass synth? this song is different from other anime / sdvx / metal song that have distinct differences between which one is really loud and which one is soft. The 1/4 string is unusually large sound from the composer and the overall music composition is equally average large for each snap instances instead of having one or two particular sound being so obviously big. having double note in the equally spread out volume of song doesn't reflect the layering expresses naturally tbh..

you also need to know that the kiai is the only part that have quite long 1/4 while pattern before kiai actually isn't. it is already give other difficulty not in the density, but on how the pattern is executed by learning hitting 1/4 accurately.


I'd like to go through this set a little more if it ends up falling out of qualified to go through some questionable pitch usage in the Normal, but these are minor issues that I don't see the point in addressing atm unless the above changes are to be made.

Maxus wrote:

So, I might as well give a little bit of my opinion regarding this.


General:

The difficulty spread is WAY too huge between difficulties. People who would come from comfortably the Normal difficulty would have to spend significantly longer improving compared to other sets before they were even capable of understanding some of the complex patterns used in the Hard. The difference in difficulty, density and complexity are just way too harsh, and there should be a difficulty between them, a TRUE normal difficulty, which the song is fully capable of supporting. Well you should consider these facts too:

1.that this is actually really short song that even new player doesn't need to focus too much into the pattern to finish the difficulty. playing 40 seconds compared with TV size or full ver is really different and you should know that. it is also one major factor in determining whether the gap is fit in or not. I don't really see how this is relevant, it wouldn't matter if it was 0:30 or 2:30, the difference in complexity and density would still be unacceptable.

2.This is High BPM song to begin with, combine with the fact that this song is actually feature awkward composing and complexity being uphold everywhere like a mushy mushy sound i literally hear at middle without stop. forcing to fit the diff just for spread isn't really a great idea as the pattern will be forced to be in within the range gap instead of expressing the song in more optimal way. I personally would like to attempt a NM for this song if possible, as I really believe it's capable of a good low 2-ish SR difficulty without being "forced". Not really willing to whip one up immediately, but I'm pretty confident it's possible.

3.You ask him to make normal diff, and yet The Gap is already consistent within each diff, it is equal without any inbalance between each difficulty, the fact that you want another normal diff will make the gap Inconsistent between hard and insane difficulty which produce even more awkward problem. (unless if you ask him to make another diff after hard diff, but I don't think it's optimal and more like subjective instead of intersubjective.) I mentioned changes in the mod that would increase the difficulty of the hard to a level where adding a normal difficulty would create an acceptable spread from EZ to MX. And besides a slightly inconsistent spread gap is better than a gap that's WAY too big.

4.I'm in belief that newcomers have really fast learning curve to compensate their improvement in the game that already have so many content and already been multiple years in the public face.. as this game and other similar vsrg have more and more content to play, the easier newcomers actually strive to get better compared the past content which only few to begin with. Having too strict gap doesn't really have any beneficial purposes as far as i see combined with previous fact. I think it's fair to say that everyone is different in their ability to learn, but in this instance, most people would see how difficult the next difficulty up is, then leave for a LONG TIME before being skilled enough to take it on. Giving players more opportunities to experience a song at multiple difficulties that they can actually play *somewhat* without having to use speedup or slowdown mods should be encouraged.


Hard:

I've already been through this in discord, but I wanted to do a comprehensive list of all inappropriate 1/6th note usage due to insignificant synth sfx that probably shouldn't be mapped to, and ones that SHOULD stay mapped, because there is a significant difference between some of these that shouldn't be ignored.

00:11:800 (11800|1) - 00:16:600 (16600|1) - 00:19:000 (19000|1) - During all of these notes, there is a kinda "wiggly" synth noise, which is the only audible sound other than the held "main" synth (for example, held from 00:11:700 - to 00:11:850 -). All of these notes are unacceptable for two reasons:

1. They are barely audible compared to the main synth, which leads to players feeling as though they are hitting "dead notes" which aren't mapped to anything. I think it will be really awkward if the player can't actually hear any differences of song section between 00:01:200 - and 00:10:800 - where there suddenly appear so many grace noises and even more complex ice cream noises happened. If players notice the differences then they will notice immediately that some grace pattern will appear. like without even opening editor i can realize just from the song that the map content will feature many grace notes across the pattern, maybe it's awkward for you, but the song itself is awkward, so does the map, afterall mapper follow the song right? Looked through the MX diff at 25%, and noticed that the same 1/6th notes are also in this diff, so depending on what the decision made by other people is, I guess they would have to go too. As for the 1/8th notes used on sfx, these all seem pretty justifiable as they all stick out fairly well and work much better than these 1/6th notes as grace notes since they are way more audible.

2. Even if these sfx sounds are audible, there are no specific sounds that I can hear that call for these notes to be snapped to SPECIFICALLY these 1/6th lines. In fact, if i'm hearing correctly the "apex" of the wiggle sfx all happen on 1/4th snaps (00:11:700 - 00:11:775 - and 00:11:850 -) which make the 1/6th snap usage extremely inappropriate. hear 00:11:700 (11700|3,11700|2,11800|1,11850|2) - carefully, these 3 sounds are 1 package which features "birdy?" song that been patterned consistently everytime there's double and 1/6 there. There isn't even need to slow down it to notice those birdie sound even with the song's complexity. I can hear this "birdy" sound but I don't see how it should be snapped to 1/6 in the current way it is. The most audible sounds of the sfx are on the 1/4 snaps, like I mentioned.

Weber wrote:

Maxus wrote:

So, I might as well give a little bit of my opinion regarding this.


General:

The difficulty spread is WAY too huge between difficulties. People who would come from comfortably the Normal difficulty would have to spend significantly longer improving compared to other sets before they were even capable of understanding some of the complex patterns used in the Hard. The difference in difficulty, density and complexity are just way too harsh, and there should be a difficulty between them, a TRUE normal difficulty, which the song is fully capable of supporting. Well you should consider these facts too:

1.that this is actually really short song that even new player doesn't need to focus too much into the pattern to finish the difficulty. playing 40 seconds compared with TV size or full ver is really different and you should know that. it is also one major factor in determining whether the gap is fit in or not. I don't really see how this is relevant, it wouldn't matter if it was 0:30 or 2:30, the difference in complexity and density would still be unacceptable. it's relevant..30 second song with 50 minute song is obviously different for the analogy, and of course the shorter length song is what makes it less demanding for player, hence easier.

2.This is High BPM song to begin with, combine with the fact that this song is actually feature awkward composing and complexity being uphold everywhere like a mushy mushy sound i literally hear at middle without stop. forcing to fit the diff just for spread isn't really a great idea as the pattern will be forced to be in within the range gap instead of expressing the song in more optimal way. I personally would like to attempt a NM for this song if possible, as I really believe it's capable of a good low 2-ish SR difficulty without being "forced". Not really willing to whip one up immediately, but I'm pretty confident it's possible.I didnt say it is impossible either, but it only results in unoptimal layering pattern which doesnt corellate with mapping quality either way.. I also mention other problem that hard and insane wont be balance lmao..

3.You ask him to make normal diff, and yet The Gap is already consistent within each diff, it is equal without any inbalance between each difficulty, the fact that you want another normal diff will make the gap Inconsistent between hard and insane difficulty which produce even more awkward problem. (unless if you ask him to make another diff after hard diff, but I don't think it's optimal and more like subjective instead of intersubjective.) I mentioned changes in the mod that would increase the difficulty of the hard to a level where adding a normal difficulty would create an acceptable spread from EZ to MX. And besides a slightly inconsistent spread gap is better than a gap that's WAY too big. and I did mention to you that adding more notes on kiai part in hard difficulty will make the layering really awkward because of the essai reason i already mentioned lmao..

4.I'm in belief that newcomers have really fast learning curve to compensate their improvement in the game that already have so many content and already been multiple years in the public face.. as this game and other similar vsrg have more and more content to play, the easier newcomers actually strive to get better compared the past content which only few to begin with. Having too strict gap doesn't really have any beneficial purposes as far as i see combined with previous fact. I think it's fair to say that everyone is different in their ability to learn, but in this instance, most people would see how difficult the next difficulty up is, then leave for a LONG TIME before being skilled enough to take it on. Giving players more opportunities to experience a song at multiple difficulties that they can actually play *somewhat* without having to use speedup or slowdown mods should be encouraged.
but no one can deny that learning the basic is easier than mastering something to more perfection, and i think thats what people like to overlooked..

Hard:

I've already been through this in discord, but I wanted to do a comprehensive list of all inappropriate 1/6th note usage due to insignificant synth sfx that probably shouldn't be mapped to, and ones that SHOULD stay mapped, because there is a significant difference between some of these that shouldn't be ignored.

00:11:800 (11800|1) - 00:16:600 (16600|1) - 00:19:000 (19000|1) - During all of these notes, there is a kinda "wiggly" synth noise, which is the only audible sound other than the held "main" synth (for example, held from 00:11:700 - to 00:11:850 -). All of these notes are unacceptable for two reasons:

1. They are barely audible compared to the main synth, which leads to players feeling as though they are hitting "dead notes" which aren't mapped to anything. I think it will be really awkward if the player can't actually hear any differences of song section between 00:01:200 - and 00:10:800 - where there suddenly appear so many grace noises and even more complex ice cream noises happened. If players notice the differences then they will notice immediately that some grace pattern will appear. like without even opening editor i can realize just from the song that the map content will feature many grace notes across the pattern, maybe it's awkward for you, but the song itself is awkward, so does the map, afterall mapper follow the song right? Looked through the MX diff at 25%, and noticed that the same 1/6th notes are also in this diff, so depending on what the decision made by other people is, I guess they would have to go too. As for the 1/8th notes used on sfx, these all seem pretty justifiable as they all stick out fairly well and work much better than these 1/6th notes as grace notes since they are way more audible.Dont think it need to go as its audible for both of diff and serve as consistency purposes.

2. Even if these sfx sounds are audible, there are no specific sounds that I can hear that call for these notes to be snapped to SPECIFICALLY these 1/6th lines. In fact, if i'm hearing correctly the "apex" of the wiggle sfx all happen on 1/4th snaps (00:11:700 - 00:11:775 - and 00:11:850 -) which make the 1/6th snap usage extremely inappropriate. hear 00:11:700 (11700|3,11700|2,11800|1,11850|2) - carefully, these 3 sounds are 1 package which features "birdy?" song that been patterned consistently everytime there's double and 1/6 there. There isn't even need to slow down it to notice those birdie sound even with the song's complexity. I can hear this "birdy" sound but I don't see how it should be snapped to 1/6 in the current way it is. The most audible sounds of the sfx are on the 1/4 snaps, like I mentioned. It's 1/6 because it is where the snap is supposed to be. No more and no less. And as i said before its one package sound thats done consistently across the difficulty.

whatever, wait for other's opinions

Weber wrote:

Hello, I have some quality concerns that I think need addressing before this set goes through to ranked.

thanks maxus for backing me up on this but it's time to cover this myself

General:

The difficulty spread is WAY too huge between difficulties. People who would come from comfortably playing the Normal difficulty would have to spend significantly longer improving compared to other sets before they were even capable of understanding some of the complex patterns used in the Hard. The difference in difficulty, density and complexity are just way too harsh, and there should be a difficulty between them, a TRUE normal difficulty, which the song is fully capable of supporting.




1. There are worse ranked spreads out there
2. the sr is consistant and fits comfortably within the 1.5* barrier that's usually accepted for SR gaps across mania.
3. not everyone at every skill level should have a diff from every map available for them to play which is challenging, this is just absurd, if that was the case i just wouldn't bother ranking anything in the first place. If one diff is too easy and one diff is too hard, train more until that too hard diff becomes easier,
like a long reaching goal.
(fwiw you're probably judging the difficulty of minijacks too harshly, they're easier than you make them out to be imo, everyone has their own skillset and people around your level might find it easier than you do, also the 1/6 is rare, you make it sound like they're placed everywhere and they're not.)

Hard:

I've already been through this in discord, but I wanted to do a comprehensive list of all inappropriate 1/6th note usage due to insignificant synth sfx that probably shouldn't be mapped to, and ones that SHOULD stay mapped, because there is a significant difference between some of these that shouldn't be ignored.

00:11:800 (11800|1) - 00:16:600 (16600|1) - 00:19:000 (19000|1) - During all of these notes, there is a kinda "wiggly" synth noise, which is the only audible sound other than the held "main" synth (for example, held from 00:11:700 - to 00:11:850 -). All of these notes are unacceptable for two reasons:

1. They are barely audible compared to the main synth, which leads to players feeling as though they are hitting "dead notes" which aren't mapped to anything. they're audible af idk how you cannot hear these like i cannot miss them at all when listening to the song like if i removed the notes i could tell that there was a gap in music where there should be notes

2. Even if these sfx sounds are audible, there are no specific sounds that I can hear that call for these notes to be snapped to SPECIFICALLY these 1/6th lines. In fact, if i'm hearing correctly the "apex" of the wiggle sfx all happen on 1/4th snaps (00:11:700 - 00:11:775 - and 00:11:850 -) which make the 1/6th snap usage extremely inappropriate. listening through at 25% speed, 1/8 might seem more appropriate, but playing back from the 1/6 snap ist seems fitting

(As an example of good appropriate note placement on sfx in this song, 00:13:500 (13500|2,13575|1) - has a distinct sfx sound on each snap here which the above mentioned notes all really don't.)

As a solution i'd like to see the 1/6th note removed in all of these cases, and for the doubles that come before it (for example 00:11:700 (11700|3,11700|2) - ) to include a LN in some form to better represent the held synth noises here. get new headphones, we've already discussed if that sound was there and you were outweighted like 5-1

Additionally, i'd like to bring attention to some of the inconsistent double usage when it comes to distinctive synth noises in this map.

For the first 20 seconds of the map, you use doubles to accentuate the "main" synth noises in the map while using singles for the background, which is fine. However, there are some isntances where this isn't the case, which I think takes away from the map a lot.

00:07:050 (7050|2,7200|1,7200|0,7350|2) - As mentioned in discord, the usage of singles on the main synth sounds here and the double on the non-main synth sounds is pretty weird, however I see the point you gave, that you didn't want players to have to play 6 1/2 doubles in a row, which is fine. I'd like some changes to be made however to make this section a little more consistent. Instead of just swapping the density for these notes (00:07:050 (7050|2,7200|1,7200|0,7350|2), consider removing 00:07:200 (7200|0). Having them all be singles would make for an easier lead-in for the 4 doublets (which at this point in the map is the most dense pattern, as it should be). i like my 4/1 doubles, helps keep track of each new bar of music

I'd also like to see a double on 00:08:100 - since the synth noise here is exactly the same as the double at 00:08:400 - and is pretty distinctly different from the note at 00:08:250. wouldn't want anything more than 4 doubles in a row


Even if you don't agree with anything I've said above (which you really should), in this difficulty's current state, through the use of unrelenting 1/2 double note usage and VERY QUESTIONABLE 1/6th note usage in the section before the Kiai, the Kiai section feels less difficult than the entire map before it by not utilizing doublets on the EXTREMELY LOUD BASS SYNTH every 2/1 white tick starting from 00:20:700 - (which it REALLY should). Although you mentioned this would increase the SR to about 2.9*, this really shouldn't be a problem if you make a REAL normal difficulty. so you complain about the 1/2 doubles being hard but not the broken 200bpm streams, i think that's just a skill issue as i find the doubles easier

also no you can't make a diff stop asking go make it and rank it yourself

I'd like to go through this set a little more if it ends up falling out of qualified to go through some questionable pitch usage in the Normal, but these are minor issues that I don't see the point in addressing atm unless the above changes are to be made.

1. The map goes from normal to hard with: 50 bpm streams with eventually 100bpm triplets (and no doubles at all) to 100 bpm constant streams with high density, a good portion of jacks, eventually 200 bpm minibursts and sometimes even polys. The jump between this two is insane at least.
2. For the Hard-Insane jump: Higher density (+1 note on every chord), LNs and a bigger amount of polys. Even though I think its a bigger gap than average its still not far off it, given that the density increase doesnt involve any other sort of technicallity other than just a better finger coordination, the gap mostly stands above the average due to the LN anchors and the bursts. If I have to give this a rating I would say the gap between this two diffs is higher than normal but not insane. Would say just a big gap.

Hydria wrote:

1. There are worse ranked spreads out there

Hydria wrote:

If one diff is too easy and one diff is too hard, train more until that too hard diff becomes easier, like a long reaching goal.

juankristal wrote:

I mean, the diff gap from the now called Normal diff and the Hard diff is quite big. If I have to judge it I would say it doesnt fit the "Well designed" spread that the RC asks for. Adding a difficulty in between both of the problematic ones isnt a huge deal. So does the Hard and Insane diff, The increase is linear and be expressed in obvious same gaps.

The fact that this song is 30 seconds doesnt matter at all, the RC asks for a well designed spread and "This is so that players of all levels of experience are able to enjoy maps of the songs they love.". The gap between normal and hard being that big makes it so you would have to spend a long time if you want to enjoy the song you love. Being it 30 seconds or 300 doesnt really change anything there since the key word is enjoy and not just pass. This point is too subjective, how do you know what is the thing that player enjoy? I can easily reverse that statement by saying "the thing that player enjoy is something that's challenging for them, because enjoy equates to fun, and fun equates to challenging. No one would find something safe to be interesting and fun either". Bringing too subjective thing from RC to be masked into objective point seems quite detrimental on its own.

And I keep hearing that short song doesn't matter, Now can someone explain to me why? Shorter song require less focus and less pattern adaptation because They don't require to hold much concentration and having too much muscle memory to comprehend many things consistently. That's one thing mapper and modder also need to consider in general either way.

So my first point is, why is this spread not a well designed one? Well:

1. The map goes from normal to hard with: 50 bpm streams with eventually 100bpm triplets (and no doubles at all) to 100 bpm constant streams with high density, a good portion of jacks, eventually 200 bpm minibursts and sometimes even polys. The jump between this two is insane at least. It's 100 BPM stream in normal because they already introduce many 1/2 pattern already.. and Hard difficulty feature double note but still within 1/2 pattern which only differences in density, the 1/6 only occurs at few places with the double being on either 34 on 12 to give much easier patterning. and the kiai features broke 1/4, which is from normal diff which having broken 1/2 too. (1/2 to 1/4 is normal tbh) if it's problem, honestly idk what to say.
   
2. For the Hard-Insane jump: Higher density (+1 note on every chord), LNs and a bigger amount of polys. Even though I think its a bigger gap than average its still not far off it, given that the density increase doesnt involve any other sort of technicallity other than just a better finger coordination, the gap mostly stands above the average due to the LN anchors and the bursts. If I have to give this a rating I would say the gap between this two diffs is higher than normal but not insane. Would say just a big gap.

The main theme is technicality though, the music has complex snap and sound and so does the map have complex patterning. I will say this is the very start of the mapping idea to having equally large gap to reflect on how the instrument actually being composed, and i will say it's really fitting theme and have acceptable gap due to mapping design choices.

So because of that I think the gap needs to be filled with a -higher than usual- gap between the normal difficulty and the hard difficulty and the best way for it would likely be add a new one, as both of this difficulties are quite good at their own.

And my second point is that the RC states that "A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set" which means the easier diff should likely be renamed to Easy instead. They didn't say "A difficulty's name must indicate its Icon level of difficulty" btw, so i don't think there's anywhere that stated that Star Rating must indicate the icon diff, but rather on more case on case basis.

That being said, its only my opinion on it and the RC isnt really clear with it. Another diff for this would be nice and fairly easy to achieve and even Weber offered to do so. Feerum is a QAT and he is the one in charge of this hitting the qualified section so I guess we just see if you (hydria) consider any of my points valid or at least my explanation is good enough for you. As Weber offered, I wouldnt mind doing such difficulty in case your problem is just a time issue (wanting to get the map ranked asap). If thats not an issue then I dont really see why you wouldnt do such thing, I am sure that you can get this set back to ranked in an instant with the new difficulty (and in case that you dont find any BN for it call me).

PD:

Hydria wrote:

1. There are worse ranked spreads out there

Please just dont use that argument, you should be one of the people who leads to a better ranked place, not a worse one. Dont use that as an excuse to do it wrong, use it as an excuse to make things better. However, It raises question on how much issue is actually an issue, or is it not an issue in the first place and just personal preference instead?

juankristal wrote:

I mean, the diff gap from the now called Normal diff and the Hard diff is quite big. If I have to judge it I would say it doesnt fit the "Well designed" spread that the RC asks for. Adding a difficulty in between both of the problematic ones isnt a huge deal.

The fact that this song is 30 seconds doesnt matter at all, the RC asks for a well designed spread and "This is so that players of all levels of experience are able to enjoy maps of the songs they love.". The gap between normal and hard being that big makes it so you would have to spend a long time if you want to enjoy the song you love. Being it 30 seconds or 300 doesnt really change anything there since the key word is enjoy and not just pass. don't know why time is a factor here but w/e idc

So my first point is, why is this spread not a well designed one? Well:

1. The map goes from normal to hard with: 50 bpm streams with eventually 100bpm triplets there's 4-5 note 100bpm streams in there(and no doubles at all) to 100 bpm constant streams you mean chords with high density, a good portion of jacks minijacks, it's designed in a way that a player never hats to hit more than one jack pattern at a time, eventually 200 bpm minibursts broken streams and sometimes even polys there's like 4 1/6 notes if that's what you define as "polyrhythms" if not then show me where they are. The jump between this two is insane at least. actually it's normal->hard not insane xd
2. For the Hard-Insane jump: Higher density (+1 note on every chord), LNs and a bigger amount of polys bursts increasing to 1/8, LN shields,
   and then 200bpm awkward broken js. Even though I think its a bigger gap than average its still not far off it, given that the density increase doesnt involve any other sort of technicallity other than just a better finger coordination isn't that true for every gap in every map, the gap mostly stands above the average due to the LN anchors and the bursts. If I have to give this a rating I would say the gap between this two diffs is higher than normal but not insane but this is hard -> insane xd. Would say just a big gap.

So because of that I think the gap needs to be filled with a -higher than usual- gap between the normal difficulty and the hard difficulty and the best way for it would likely be add a new one, as both of this difficulties are quite good at their own.

And my second point is that the RC states that "A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set" which means the easier diff should likely be renamed to Easy instead.

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no hate dude just following the standard

That being said, its only my opinion on it and the RC isnt really clear with it. Another diff for this would be nice and fairly easy to achieve and even Weber offered to do so. Feerum is a QAT and he is the one in charge of this hitting the qualified section so I guess we just see if you (hydria) consider any of my points valid or at least my explanation is good enough for you. As Weber offered, I wouldnt mind doing such difficulty in case your problem is just a time issue (wanting to get the map ranked asap). If thats not an issue then I dont really see why you wouldnt do such thing, I am sure that you can get this set back to ranked in an instant with the new difficulty (and in case that you dont find any BN for it call me). it isn't an issue I just don't want to include a 4th diff in this set but you know who am I to judge call along blocko the independent qat to see what he says

PD:

Hydria wrote:

1. There are worse ranked spreads out there

Please just dont use that argument, you should be one of the people who leads to a better ranked place, not a worse one. Dont use that as an excuse to do it wrong, use it as an excuse to make things better.

one of my own maps has a worse spread than this but I guess the community only works on reactionary complaints so w/e

juankristal wrote:

you should be one of the people who leads to a better ranked place, not a worse one

I just want to address this one point on it's own as it seems better that way.

(edited due to expected community overreaction and therefore swaying away from the original point which is a mod)
I do me, you do you, I have my own goals, expectations, commitments and visions, and so do you.
Don't try to push your ideals onto me. The last thing I want to do is work on trying to fix the collection of ranked maps.