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fhana - RHAPSODY OF BLUE SKY

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Weedy
wait
isn't this song called Aozora no Rhapsody
nobody's gonna find it if it's translated unless tags
but the title should be jp because vocals are jp
Doormat
Monstrata quote

Monstrata wrote:

Just for clarification, the entire "modified hepburn romanization system" is meant for archival and documentation purposes. Actually, osu! doesn't follow the rules of the modified hepburn system that closely anyways.

This is just one set of rules for the modified hepburn system.
https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/japanes ... 111215.pdf

Another published article on the modified hepburn ss=ystem can be found here:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 011.536751

For example, this is how one should approach the modified hepburn romanization:

As you can see, already the system seems to deviate from how we would normally romanize words anyways. アルミニウム is for example romanized as Aruminyumu instead of Aluminum or even (if you replaced katakana for its corresponding english sound) Aruminiumu. There are obscure rules that make sense in archival settings but the osu! database isn't set up to really accomodate that. As well, using these rules precisely only benefits researchers, and not people who just want to search up a song.

Anyways, that's my rant on the modified hepburn system. On to actually important stuff, "romanization" is not "translation". The purpose of romanizing something is to show a reader how to pronounce a word or phrase if they are unfamiliar with an alphabet. Someone who cannot read kanji would have absolutely no idea how to pronounce 青空. I mean show this to a person who could only read/write english and ask them to read it. What will they say? Yea, nothing, because they have no idea how the writing system works or how the character should be pronounced. The function of romanization is to put these characters into a writing system that the reader can actually read. You cannot read 青空 unless you know chinese, but you can read "Aozora" if you know English. Translating 青空 to Blue Sky doesn't tell you how to read/pronounce the kanji, so it's not a romanization, it's a translation.

Actually, regarding this, the official Ranking Criteria says that loan words should be expressed using romanisation from the official original language, so in the case of the example you brought up, "アルミニウム" would be written as "Aluminum" and not "Aruminyumu," since it's originally an English word.

What I take issue with is that "青空" needs to be romanised under its original language according to the Ranking Criteria rules; "青空" is Japanese in this context, so it should be romanised to "Aozora" and not "Blue Sky." This is why I believe the correct romanisation in this case should be "Aozora no Rhapsody," regardless of whether or not "RHAPSODY OF BLUE SKY" is the official English title.

tl;dr: Under the current Ranking Criteria rules, "RHAPSODY OF BLUE SKY" is an incorrect romanised title because "青空" is not being romanised from its intended language

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Songs with Japanese titles must use the Modified Hepburn method of romanisation in the "Romanised Title" field. As a non-unicode field, long vowels such as "おう" and "うう" should be romanised into "ou" and "uu" to avoid macrons... Loan words should be expressed using romanisation from the original language. source
alternatively you could just change the title to "RHAPSODY OF BLUE SKY" instead of using the Japanese title and that would probably be okay too lol
Monstrata
@Doormat

Another reason why osu doesn't actually follow proper romanization methods that closely anyways xD. But for good reason, as I said. This isn't an archive in the literal sense.
Doormat

Monstrata wrote:

@Doormat

Another reason why osu doesn't actually follow proper romanization methods that closely anyways xD. But for good reason, as I said. This isn't an archive in the literal sense.
Aha, fair enough, but I'd still like clarification as to why we're going with the English title when it contradicts what the Ranking Criteria states
Pentori

Karen wrote:

Pentori wrote:

00:39:099 (4,5,6,7,1,2,1,2,1) - the jumps aren't placed all that well tbh, the instruments are grouped in the music as 00:39:099 (4,5,6,7,1) - and 00:39:766 (2,1,2) - but the way it's mapped groups 00:39:544 (1,2) - together. putting the jump on the weaker beat 00:39:544 (1) - makes 00:39:766 (2) - feel really insignificant and doesnt make much sense cause its the same sounds as 00:39:099 (4,5,6,7) i don't agree, there is a group of special sound here 00:39:544 (1,2,1,2,1) - , it is stronger than the bacground drums
this was one of my main concerns tho :( i hear the sounds you're talking about but i definitely dont think its stronger.. the sound on 00:39:766 (2) - is so much more intuitive to follow and is what ppl will listen out for. keep it if you must, i don't really want to keep repeating myself
[]
00:40:211 (1,2) - might want to swap ncs, consistency with 00:43:766 (6,1)

rest im ok with
IamKwaN
I need some time resting from my exhausting exams and digesting you guys' words, so please give me some time before pushing the map forward and I have let the map creator know about this.

Without reading any discussions, I have the tendency to allow a little more choices for creators before the implementation of the new metadata ranking criteria, because that is basically the conclusion of me consulting the metadata rcc dudes and yes, the current ranking criteria is very absurd and obsolete on many concepts.

Will be back tomorrow.Never successfully disappear from this game during my leave, help.
Karen
fixed both!
update
osu file format v14

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Title:RHAPSODY OF BLUE SKY
TitleUnicode:青空のラプソディ
Artist:fhana
ArtistUnicode:fhána
Creator:[Kamiya]
Version:My Angel Kanna
Source:小林さんちのメイドラゴン
Tags:kobayashi san chi no maidragon opening anime maid dragon OblivioN Karen Dynamix imoutosan Pata-Mon gxytcgxytc
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37,132,82766,1,0,0:0:0:0:
37,132,82877,6,0,B|98:110|98:110|214:125,1,180.000006866455,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
387,132,83322,2,0,B|326:110|326:110|210:125,1,180.000006866455,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
147,220,83766,1,0,1:0:0:0:
282,224,83988,1,0,0:0:0:0:
147,220,84211,5,0,1:0:0:0:
156,266,84322,1,0,1:0:0:0:
282,224,84433,5,0,1:0:0:0:
269,270,84544,1,0,1:0:0:0:
217,356,84655,6,0,P|277:322|354:341,1,136.000002593994,0|8,1:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
512,251,85099,2,0,L|364:238,1,136.000002593994,0|8,1:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
433,84,85433,1,0,1:0:0:0:
433,84,85544,6,0,L|442:163,1,68.0000012969971,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
269,270,85766,2,0,L|276:202,1,68.0000012969971,8|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
447,258,85988,2,0,L|368:267,1,68.0000012969971,0|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
261,94,86210,2,0,L|328:101,1,68.0000012969971,8|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
497,112,86433,5,0,1:0:0:0:
309,3,86655,1,8,1:0:0:0:
196,189,86877,1,0,1:0:0:0:
384,300,87099,1,8,1:0:0:0:
381,334,87211,1,0,1:0:0:0:
364,219,87322,5,0,1:0:0:0:
275,144,87433,1,0,1:0:0:0:
159,136,87544,1,0,1:0:0:0:
91,229,87655,1,0,1:0:0:0:
181,280,87766,5,8,1:0:0:0:
140,139,87877,1,8,1:0:0:0:
0,179,87988,1,8,1:0:0:0:
39,319,88099,1,8,1:0:0:0:
256,192,88655,6,2,L|256:128,1,64,2|0,1:0|0:0,1:0:0:0:
IamKwaN
First of all, the whole essence of the current metadata trend in this game is following everything official. This principle applies to every field. The only exception is Source, as there is only one field regarding Source and we treat this as Unicode and Romanised Source sharing the same field.

For example,
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/193712 (Romanised title)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/531426 (Preferred Romanised Title)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/371118 (Official Romanised Source)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/460893 (Romanised Artist)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/404283 (Translated title)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/551271 (Translated title)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/561762 (Not even translated title)

So, forcing the usage of official translated title is simply applying the principle above.

There are many more maps, mostly songs from video game, using translated title in the Romanised Title field. And interestingly, it was firstly adopted by some non-Japanese speaking map creators. They think this approach makes them easier to identify the song by completely following what the official has stated in various official soundtrack. The QAT found it reasonable and it works perfectly well with the officiality principle. Therefore, nature of the romanised fields has already been adjusted to using non-unicode characters to express song title and artist since then, of course official ones always prevail the unofficial ones.

[[Pika]] wrote:

wait
isn't this song called Aozora no Rhapsody
nobody's gonna find it if it's translated unless tags
but the title should be jp because vocals are jp
Thus, back to this case, priority of official material is always higher than the unofficial one. Additionally, fhana uses "Rhapsody of Blue Sky" to identify the track instead of "Aozora no Rhapsody", that's why I made a conclusion that the translated title has to be used in the Romanised Title field.
https://www.facebook.com/fhanamusic/pos ... 5312923146
https://www.facebook.com/fhanamusic/pos ... 9611025716

Last but not least, the ranking criteria is indeed very outdated in this sense.
So, let's do this, before we implement a new one, we allow flexibility. Map creator can choose which to use for their map. However, if the community afterwards reaches a consensus of allowing both unofficial romanised title and official translated title, we should probably reconsider the significance of the No. 1 metadata rule again.

Furthermore, from my point of view, the conflict of the naming of the field and the principle is going to last long if nothing is done to adjust the name of the field and every time people can bring up the definition of romanisation and Japanese can argue romanisation is how the words are pronounced and read. Probably I should seek for a rename and (also adding another "romanised" field of source).

Doormat wrote:

i'd like to present a previous discussion regarding the use of an official English title vs. the Romanisation title from a previous mapset; for convenience, here's the actual post that Kwan makes regarding whether to use the English title or the Romanised title: t/467414/start=131
I would like to clarify something here too, the English Title they used is nowhere to be found official, unless I missed out something on the web. The creator did not provide any official references when I asked for one either. This is the fundamental difference between these two cases.

@Kamiya, you are free to use Rhapsody of Blue Sky or Aozora no Rhapsody as the Romanised Title for now.
Doormat
Ahh, I think I understand now. Thanks for clearing things up, Kwan!
Nao Tomori
if you use rhapsody of blue sky can you add aozora no to tags so people can search aozora no rhapsody?
Topic Starter
[Kamiya]

Naotoshi wrote:

if you use rhapsody of blue sky can you add aozora no to tags so people can search aozora no rhapsody?
ok~ i'll use
Kencho
Hope it looks good now, let's try again
Rebubbled!
Kibbleru
lets try again
Topic Starter
[Kamiya]

Kibbleru wrote:

lets try again
thank you~ :) :)
Lobelia
Gratz~~~
Adol Christin
哇起飞了,gxgx
Ankanogradiel
gj gj
Pachiru
lol
7ambda
can you like, fix Karen's link already?
GRsama
imouto's Extra 难度有点难打啊,500pp新手感觉准确只要不上90%+ ,基本上就是掉2个键那种感觉,血槽瞬间空掉然后扑街了..好可怕QAQ
ThanatosMU
TOTALMENTE INCRIVEL MUITO BOA SENSACIONAL MUITO MUITO BOA
anikun
gj on the TV Length version, but would def love to be able to play the full length version as well
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