Hello again!!
my replies are in bold, as always!
00:53:782 (1) - (on Easy) you moved this accidentaly, take care
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Veto'ing this map until the above issues get fixed and/or are properly explained with a valid reasoning.
my replies are in bold, as always!
Additional note:kanor wrote:
anyway thx for modding cause you actually make my map betterYuii- wrote:
Hello there!
Popping because I have a lot of issues that need to be addressed before pushing this set forward:General
- Easy difficulty not having a defined rhythm as well as being way slider-reliant.
- Inconsistencies across difficulties.
- Rhythm and emphasis is worrisome in most of the difficulties.
- Unrankable issues.
The sliders at the beginning of the song are extended until 00:02:703 - on Easy, however on Normal and Hard it ends on 00:02:387 - . That happens only throughout the beginning. Since we are at it, you might also want to get rid off the whistles placed on the slidertails at 00:02:703 - on Easy because there is no real need to use them.
To be honest, I would be fine with this kind of inconsistency if Normal were to be mapped by another person, that is totally acceptable on my end. But considering you mapped the three difficulties, I would rather have consitency throughout them.
acutally whether defined rhythm,inconsistencies or not is a subjective ideas, isnt it? Of course you can express your ideas, but to be honest, we are eager to know more about places with specific and objective reason.
of course it would looks good if those be consistent, but wait a moment, have you ever considered that how to deal the problem if it was picked uo? If the answer is YES, there is no doubt we can fixed it by a convincing reason.
I may agree with you about the inconsistencies, but Im a little confused if it deserves a pop. - inconsistencies are one of the many reasons why i decided to pop this map. that wasn't the only one, don't worry. subjective or not i don't really care about that, we are told to mod the beatmaps, not to be objective. that's why the RC exists, for you to not break the rules
Easy
I am really trying to comprehend what rhythm you are trying to follow on this difficulty. It feels off from absolutely everything. There are so many beats that got ignored for the sake of keeping the 1/1 spam for no reason at all when the song breaks with this in many occasions.
Not only that, but as I have mentioned before this difficulty relies a lot on sliders when there should be more clickable elements involved as the music does really support them.
Last but not least, 00:12:177 - 00:14:703 - 00:18:493 - these spaces should be filled with something. Everything you are following at the beginning of the difficulty suddenly gets ignored for no real reason. It feels awkward to have these empty spaces when there is really no reason to have them as such.
obviously you have point out the rhythm Selectively. its not just a 1/1 spam diff standing from 00:31:124 (1) - 00:33:651 (1) - 00:36:177 (1) - 00:41:230 (1) - 00:43:756 (1) - 00:46:282 (1) - 00:48:809 (1) - 00:53:782 (1) - 00:59:545 (2,3) - 01:21:651 (1,2) - 01:24:177 (1,2,3) - 01:26:703 (1) - whats more, its a 5 diffs set, which is inconsequence
if a easy diff was blamed for many beats got ignored beacuse it should be a good spread between each diff. If it need to add more 1/2, we can actually call it Normal instead Easy, which would be bad for the spread.
at 00:12:177 - 00:14:703 - 00:18:493 - of course we can follow the vocal, but in fact, it would be well if ingored, you can say my idea is subjective ideas, but i have to point out that so does yours. - again, this isn't about subjective or objectivity. the easy difficulty is ignoring the song, you are spamming 1/1 beats with no rhytmically connotation whatsoever. let me repeat it, vocals are very, very prominent here and you are ignoring the song. is ignoring the song subjective? please, don't tell me it is
leaving the fact that 00:12:177 - 00:14:703 - etc. etc. should have been mapped because there is no reason at all for you to ignore these sections, there are other instances, such as 00:31:124 - , in which the map doesn't match the music at all. for example, 00:38:703 (1,2,3,4) - this is supposed to be the most calmest part of this whole section yet it's the one with the most objects.
as i have told you before, 00:46:282 - from there onwards the map is rhythmically okayish because, even if it has the same rhythm patterns as previous, it does match the music... somehow. but then it gets problametic again on 00:57:019 (2,3,4) - those patterns where the most prominent beats get absolutely no attention at all.
this isn't about adding 1/2 patterns, i'm not telling you to do that. i'm asking you to follow the music.
i have mapped this same song and the same difficulty as seen https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1211924 there. i'm telling you to copy my rhythm or anything like that because, as you said, we all have different interpretations about certain things, i completely respect that and i agree with you, don't misunderstand me
Some additional notes:
00:33:019 (3) - 00:34:914 (2,3) - 00:38:072 (3) - etc. What are you exactly trying to follow with these patterns? Sometimes you follow the vocals, others the drums. Problem with this is that this is done with no patterning throughout the map. The whole difficulty is based on a 1/1 base spam of sliders instead of following the actual music and a clear rhythm.
you havent understand the rhythm I make for this diff, actually it is tough for this song if only focus on vocal cause it is not as regualar as those song that dowm beat is on the white lines.So I wonder if you have heard the whistle on 00:31:124 (1) - ,3/2 would simple the rhythm with a good feedback - http://i.imgur.com/SlU2hgP.jpg that's an alternative and i'm following both vocals are everything important on the music.
another example would be with the following pattern, speaking of 00:33:651 (1,2,3,1) - ,where you could have done http://i.imgur.com/44RIuKk.jpg that for example...
i don't really know what to say at this point, the problems are here and must be addressed because following the music is a criteria, is something we,
as a community should worry about.
00:57:019 (2,3,4) - Drums are clearly more stronger than vocals but during this section you decided to swap to vocal mapping.
of course we can follow the drum, but we have to point it out that the drum is on the red lines, which would be too hard in a Easy diff but better at insane such as abhor's Light insane.actually, following the vocal is easier for newbie players, which is most important for a easy diff. - not sure where you got this from, but there is this one thing called "3/2 sliders" where you can actually extend the slider in order to prevent it from landing on a white tick, example: http://i.imgur.com/DebHQem.jpg . again, there is no excuse to this. red lines aren't hard at all on easies, these are just very bad excuses for people who aren't that capable of creating a noticeable polarity
01:09:651 - Cymbal sound being placed on a slidertail instead of dividing the rhythm into two different sliders as you have been doing literally everywhere else on the map.cause i used the same slider at 01:05:230 (3) - consistencies is important, isnt it? - it's not the same, you are comparing two different intensities with two different type of vocals. 01:05:230 (3) - is following one extended vocals which then it gets separated by 01:06:177 (4) - . this isn't the case with 01:09:651 - as the vocals AND the strong beat land on the same white tick, you will need to split this slider into 2
Normal
00:12:966 (4) - Ryhthm is not clear. Why would you put a circle there when vocals being at 00:12:809 - ? Same applies to 00:15:493 (4) - .like you do as I said before, it would be tough if follow the full vocal,so I choose the vocal at 00:12:809 cause it has 1/1 gap , 1/2 gap would be bad at looking. - in all seriousness, did someone tell you these gaps are unrankable or something? polarity is totally acceptable as long as it's not completely abused and/or poorly executed in a way that newbie players can't tell/recognize the gaps between clickable objects. rhythms such as http://i.imgur.com/Ipg4wpc.jpg work as intended because there's a lot of variation while still following the music.
00:57:651 (3,4,5) - Once again, rhythm gets completely ignored. I pointed out this on Easy already, applies here as well. like i said before, its better at a insane diff, not easy or normal.there isnt a convicing reason for me to change the rhythem just because of the drum , it would destoty the whole structure of this diff. - aaaalright, i like this! you are basically saying that the difficulty is flawed so you cannot place objects on red ticks? destroying the whole structure? i'm basically telling you to follow the music, not to destroy the map. you are misunderstanding the whole point of what we care the most: the song. if there's nothing to map to, we would have no maps, right? are you telling me that a rhythm like http://i.imgur.com/NGD1ona.jpg is going to destroy the difficulty? is going to make newbie players fail or something? you're underestimating them.
i must really suggest you to ask really newbie players to testplay your maps and you will see what they can(not) hit and read. spoiler: they can even hit jumps if done properly. i invite you to take a closer look into https://osu.ppy.sh/b/869732 so you can get an idea of what they are capable of!
00:58:914 (1) - Why are you extending this slider that much? I have to point it out that you should give me a good reason for why I cant, otherwise I would keep it cause I wasnot convinced. - not the best way to reply to a mod when i'm asking you a question but considering your attitude i will just explain you shortly why: you are mapping three different things and you haven't done that in the entire map.
remember your last point about "it would destoty the whole structure of this diff." well, this is the perfect example. inconsistency, that's it.
http://i.imgur.com/gFMu1B4.jpgthis would make much more sense since you are ignoring both vocals and drums on 00:59:230 - , and that's something you avoided throughout the entire map.
01:12:177 (2,3) - This should be a 1/2 pattern. Not sure why this is a 1/1 when vocals land on the red tick.Im confused cause the place you point it out is well for 1/1 cause there is not 1/2 vocal on 01:12:809 (3) - - this wasn't replied
01:15:966 (4,1) - This should not be a 1/2 pattern because the emphasis is put onto 01:16:598 - . There is really nothing worth highlighting on the red tick where (1) is being placed.but in my opinion, pattern here is easy enough for newbies cause its just a repeat, circles would be much more difficult for 190BPM, isnt it?By the way , there is 1/2 , not 1/4.
01:18:335 (5,6,7) - Pattern is really hard to hit and is being poorly introduced into the difficulty. You are not using as many 1/2 rhythms as I was expecting you to use, so this pattern is really hard to hit at this level. Never use circle-slider whenever it would be used like an equivalent of 1/4 circle-slider pattern for a song with BPM higher than 100 with just AR5 or lower because it is uncomfortable for noobs. Instead of the accurate patterning just try to use slider-circle pattern (so just use Ctrl+G) because now it will kill people while playing so hardcore patterns on 190 BPM.
Yeah, maybe your right, but have a look at Normal in this sethttps://osu.ppy.sh/s/568110at 01:10:181 (4,5,6,7,1) - which used 3 cirlces, which is obviously harder than pattern at my set, and here i used 2 1/2 sliders, which actually plays like 2 1/1 circles in fact. Its not as difficult as you said at all even if its 190BPM, otherwise its contradiction cause you think my Easy is full of 1/1 Spam, but you think 1/2 sliders are tough, though. - you want to know what's the difference between his map and yours?
short reply: http://i.imgur.com/A4EcxpZ.jpg vs http://i.imgur.com/ExzCBnQ.jpg
long reply: desperate-kun's difficulty is way more denser than yours, providing much more objects throughout the entire map while mapping both beats and vocals properly accentuated. you, on the other hand, are actually placing many important beats on tails and not using as many 1/2 rhythms as he is doing;
in fact, 00:45:019 (3,4,5,1) - is one of the most denser patterns in your difficulty and it's not being as emphasized in the bgm as the rest of the kiai yet you decided to use 4 objects in a row.
leaving that aside, the pattern circle+2 1/2 sliders is really hard to hit due to how timing works for newbie players, they hit it really poorly because in the transition from a circle into a 1/2 slider (in a 1/2 pattern) there is little time, but if you add another one later on, it becomes really hard to hit because they don't know where to release the first slider as they have no idea how slider leniency works.
01:26:072 (4) - Optional, but this should have really been a slider+circle pattern instead. Not necessary except you can explain it furtherly - mind explaining to me where are the reasonings behind many of your fixes on these mods since you brought desperate-kun's difficulty to the table:
p/5896036 p/5835302 p/5817498
oh yeah, there's no reasoning. but don't worry, it totally is fine. i will just tell you why; 01:24:177 (1,2,3) - these three are three 1/2 sliders, right? wouldn't it make more sense if 01:26:072 (4) - would be a 1/2 slider too (because they have the same musical connotation) and then adding a circle on 01:26:387 - because it would make more sense with what it truly is being accentuated?
Hard
You might want to lower the OD a little bit, to 6 if possible, please. I wont lower it unless you can give me some reason but not just order like "do it" - this isn't an order, this is a favor and a request. you are being a little bit too salty at this point, i would strongly recommend you to behave for your next mod reply if possible
having such a high od considering how the map is built around is non-sensical, it makes no sense to have it that high, it hurts the spread
00:14:545 (5) - What is this slider following exactly? Vocals start on 00:14:387 - and 00:14:703 - . Not sure what is doing on the red tick to keep the similiar ryhthm at 00:12:019 (5) - - vocals start on different locations, you are comparing A to B
00:57:809 (1,2,3,4) - Same as in the other two difficulties.Same as in the other two difficulties. - my view on this pattern won't change because the reasoning was poorly explained. keeping my thoughts for the time being. this needs to get fixed
00:59:861 (4,1) - Not sure what are you exactly trying to follow here. Neither vocals nor drums are being properly emphasized on the map as the most prominent beats land on the least important sections of the slider. What about http://i.imgur.com/P5QphN9.jpg this rhythm?obviously I followed drums here. Maybe you should loop the song more times.the pattern you gave to me is well, but I want to more emphasize the sense of stop,so I want to keep it. - ooh! trust me if i say your explanation is wrong because (4) is the exact same slider as 00:59:545 (3) - and there is no drum sound on 00:59:703 - ... so why would you map them with the same rhythm when 01:00:019 - clearly deserves a click?
01:11:545 - Rhythm becomes unclear on this section. You are trying to copy-paste a similar rhythm style to what you did at 01:02:703 - but it does not play equally since the song matches both cymbals and vocals; that, unfortunately, does not occur on 01:11:545 - because cymbals disappear and vocals are much more extended. Consider using a different rhythm patterning for this section.
I cant find a good reason to convince me if rhythms here became unclear, its just a 1/4 repeat and a 1/2 slider, players should be good at it cause it is almost normal at a Hard diff, even if you dont listen to the music.Furtherly, i used it to stress the drum, which is clear in my opinion - sorry, i was clear.
01:11:545 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - this whole section becomes unclear, rhythmically speaking. i wasn't referring to just the 1/4 sliders, those are just fine.
01:01:440 - first section has less extended vocals and more emphasized beats.
01:11:545 - second section, though, has more extended vocals and less emphasized beats, hence why you want to use longer sliders and not just the same rhythm copy-pasta because that is not going to work
01:25:598 (2) - Slider does not make sense rhythmically speaking. Guitar sound starts on 01:25:756 - so it does not make too much sense to have that slider as-is when it is ignoring the guitar in the middle of the slider.you are right if we ignore 01:24:177 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - at first 1212, it give players a sense of stop, and then a 1/1 slider make the part connect with next part.I dont tend to follow the guitar here at all. - glad we agree! unfortunately this hasn't changed at all
01:28:361 (1) - Hard to achieve 300 when there is little time to react to this spinner. The hitwindow to achieve 300 on this spinner is relatively low and not appropriate for such difficulty.
In fact auto can get 2000 while playing, so it not so neccessary that I must fix it. Whats more, like I said before, it would be a long sliders if changed into sliders, which would be ugly. - scrubs tend to spin at 270spm and they don't react as fast as more experienced players when it comes to spinners. if you think auto is enough, then fine. expect people to complain about the spinner, though, because they won't be able to hit 300 at all, in fact they will most likely hit 50s.
Insane
00:58:440 (2,3) - Should not these be consistent with 00:57:809 (2,3) - ? Like, I do not really like the stack, it makes the pattern look quite weird, but if you are going to do it, it would be nice to keep it consistent. just like those Nao has said before, the drum and the vocal is diffrent, so I must find a place to change the track, the jump consist of two track, before the stack is vocal, after is drum. - not sure if you are using headphones but these are the exact same sounds... not kidding, just ask someone else, they will tell you they are not different
01:12:493 (5,1) - Ctrl+G'ing these makes more sense with the vocals, sounds really weird as of right now, to be honest. its a style of useing stack. I just want to follow the drum by this pattern.just like 00:48:651 (7,1,2,3,4,5) - - i have no idea how stacks are related to ctrl+g'ing a rhythm
01:27:966 (3,4) - Would be cool if merged into one single object instead of having them separated.no need to having them separated imo,and there is a spinner after them, make the note near the center of mind would be better - wait, what? the spinner?
01:27:966 (3,4) - this is an extended sound, there is absolutely no need for you to map it with 2 circles
01:02:703 (1) - 01:03:966 (1) - 01:04:598 (4) - 01:05:230 (1) - 01:07:756 (1) - etc. You should put more emphasis onto these notes, they play super normally when they actually should be highlighted properly.
actually I put jumps while 01:02:545 (6,1) - 01:03:651 (4,1) - 01:04:440 (3,4) - 01:05:072 (6,1) - and etc. Of course it should be stressed, but comparing with the part after, its still a quiter part , so I dont think it has to be fixed. - You are putting emphasis into the wrong notes and not emphasizing the things that should be emphasized. this needs to get fixed
Eeeeh, did not really like the amount of repetition you are using because it does not really match the music, but I guess it is about liking different styles? Not sure. Personally not liking it, because, as said, I do not find it properly.
I always show my respect to anyone's style cause everyone is different, even if they are mapping the same song.Of course there is no doubt the no one can be perfect and welcome, so I would not force you to admit this map.If you really feel bad with the map, can I find anyone else for mod and check? - I'll take care of it unless someone else finds this rhythm as something fine.
Anyway! Call me back once you have properly replied to the mod above so I can help you guys with this mapset as you will have to work on it for a while.
Good luck till then~
00:53:782 (1) - (on Easy) you moved this accidentaly, take care
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Veto'ing this map until the above issues get fixed and/or are properly explained with a valid reasoning.