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Loosing Control of the Keys

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car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96

Hello Everyone ^~^



This is my first post asking for help, so if this is the wrong place to write this, please move the post or delete it..

I have been playing osu!Mania (4k only) for around 2 months 'properly' now and played every day at least one or two hours.
After getting quick progress in the first month up to 1.8ish stars, I've been sitting around 2 stars for a long time and just a couple days ago, started to get a little bit better again.

My main problem i realised, is that when I am playing shorter songs (with more quicker following single/ long+single notes???), my hands starts to cramp a bit and I feel like my hands/wrists are moving a bit upwards, so that my bottom palm (right at the wrist) and my thumbs aren't touching the keyboard anymore and I loose control of the keys.
I am using D F J K and a Steelseries Apex350 (Not mechanical).

So my questions are:


  1. Should I maybe change the key bindings (DFJK), so that the keys are lower towards the bottom and I could use the desk as a support? But won't the same thing happen as if I rest it on the Keyboard?
  2. Does anyone have experience with this keyboard, or a similar one? Also, is a mechanical keyboard on my skill level still making a drastic difference (=worth it)?
  3. What do you do when your hands start to cramp? I am currently using two elastic wrist bandages (with thumb hole), so that the problems in my wrist are mostly gone now, but I start to have pain in the actual fingers :O
  4. Does anyone actually have the problem too, that they loose the support and with that the key control? I was thinking to maybe take some textiles and make a little loop, to put my thumb in and tape it onto the keyboard so it won't move but I doubt that's a good solution...


So anyways, thank you so much for even reading till here, I can't wait to read tips that might be helpful because I am honestly starting to feel so helpless about it!

Lizzy xx

Yyorshire
212 posts
Joined September 2015
Yyorshire
Answers:
  • Play whatever key bindings are comfortable for you. Experiment and find the best setup for yourself. I personally play near the bottom with xc ./ currently and gravitate around that area.

    Nope i use a membrane currently

    Take a break, if your hands start hurting that's not a good sign (although I frequently ignore this myself)

    Control of your hands is another skill that goes into this gamemode. I personally had a problem with my right hand where I would outstretch my thumb so far out it would hurt for days later. Taping your fingers is not a good idea. Just focus on what your hands are doing and try to improve making them do what you want.
Tripletth
96 posts
Joined August 2014
Tripletth
I'm losing control of my life.
car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96

Yyorshire wrote:

Play whatever key bindings are comfortable for you. Experiment and find the best setup for yourself. I personally play near the bottom with xc ./ currently and gravitate around that area.

Hm, I'm worried if I try around to much I'll get my brain and coordination totally f*cked up tho, or do you think it might even help, because it trains it even more? :O

Yyorshire wrote:

Nope i use a membrane currently

Have you tried other keyboards before? Or always only membrane?

Yyorshire wrote:

Take a break, if your hands start hurting that's not a good sign (although I frequently ignore this myself)

Yeah, I try to not play to much, play some easier songs I like a lot as like a bit of a relaxing break, but the pain got less and less. During the first month it hurt without moving my hand/wrist, but now it's just the fingers when I move them.

Yyorshire wrote:

Control of your hands is another skill that goes into this gamemode. I personally had a problem with my right hand where I would outstretch my thumb so far out it would hurt for days later. Taping your fingers is not a good idea. Just focus on what your hands are doing and try to improve making them do what you want.

Yeah I was guessing that :'D But I just seem to be doing okay with that one exception._. Oh well, gotta practice more then ^^


Tripletth wrote:

I'm losing control of my life.

Same, dude, same... :/

Thanks for the replies xx
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM

Yyorshire wrote:

Answers:
Play whatever key bindings are comfortable for you. Experiment and find the best setup for yourself. I personally play near the bottom with xc ./ currently and gravitate around that area.

play whatever key bindings where keys still work XD
gintoki147
84 posts
Joined December 2012
gintoki147
Try playing with your wrists floating in the air, like this.
It may feel awkward at first, but it's way more comfortable once you get used to it, because you won't be putting any pressure on your wrists anymore. Your hands won't hurt ever again, promise. Plus, it allows for faster mashing.

And yes, mechanical keyboards are awesome. I highly recommend buying one if you can afford it.
Last edited by gintoki147 , edited 3 times in total.
riunosk
1,116 posts
Joined January 2015
riunosk

gintoki147 wrote:

Try playing with your wrists floating in the air, like this.
It may feel awkward at first, but it's way more comfortable once you get used to it, because you won't be putting any pressure on your wrists anymore. Your hands won't hurt ever again, promise. Plus, it allows for faster mashing.

And yes, mechanical keyboards are awesome. I highly recommend buying one if you can afford it.
similar to playing arm up i guess
minimizes strain on your wrist but transfers the strain to your fingers instead (maybe arm too)
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM


Place a towel like this and the keyboard is a little bit more silent cause it is placed on top of the towel plus you save stamina in your arm by resting the elbow on a roll of towel and no pain on your strains/wrist they don't get pressure from the table :)
gintoki147
84 posts
Joined December 2012
gintoki147

riunosk wrote:

similar to playing arm up i guess
minimizes strain on your wrist but transfers the strain to your fingers instead (maybe arm too)

My fingers hurt more before, but that's just me. Actually, I think you'll use more of your hands to play some patterns, like jacks. It kinda feels like playing a piano.

ReTLoM's idea is nice as well, as long as you have a big table. :D
Last edited by gintoki147 , edited 3 times in total.
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM

gintoki147 wrote:

riunosk wrote:

ReTLoM's idea is nice as well, as long as you have a big table. :D

or short arms /RUUUUUUNS
car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96

gintoki147 wrote:

Try playing with your wrists floating in the air, like this.
It may feel awkward at first, but it's way more comfortable once you get used to it, because you won't be putting any pressure on your wrists anymore. Your hands won't hurt ever again, promise. Plus, it allows for faster mashing.

Oh god that is gonna be so hard to do, I like sitting as low as possible, using an L-shaped desk so I can easily have both of my arms supported while still being comfy (I'm sitting right in the corner, one arm for each side of the L).
But I'll try to figure out ^^ Thanks <3 I hope it works out!!

gintoki147 wrote:

And yes, mechanical keyboards are awesome. I highly recommend buying one if you can afford it.

Would you say that mechanical keyboards are WAY better? Like, I'm playing between 2 and 2.5 star songs, does the difference matter on 'such low skill level'?

ReTLoM wrote:

Place a towel like this and the keyboard is a little bit more silent cause it is placed on top of the towel plus you save stamina in your arm by resting the elbow on a roll of towel and no pain on your strains/wrist they don't get pressure from the table :)

Is that the same way as gintoki147 mentioned basically? Like a way to be able to have your arms positioned right? Because.. It kinda looks not uncomfy ? ^^

ReTLoM wrote:

gintoki147 wrote:

riunosk wrote:

ReTLoM's idea is nice as well, as long as you have a big table. :D

or short arms /RUUUUUUNS

I have a pretty big desk, but I have so much stuff on there that i have like the corner full of stuff and then the ends empty :'D But I cant move my screens back really because my stream cam for League is on a stand behind a screen.. Uggggh, first world problems._.
Plus long arms :( ^^

BUT THANKS FOR THE REPLIES!!! It's a different approach I haven't really tried yet O.o That's gonna be interesting ^~^
Last edited by car0line96 , edited 2 times in total.
Minisora
39 posts
Joined January 2017
Minisora
Regarding mechanical keyboards: I don't know the difference myself. I've never used a mechanical keyboard and have no problems playing mania, so I don't think it'll make a difference. Might just be preference in the end.
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM
the three Differences i can tell are
1. Lifetime
Mech= around 10-15.000.000 Keytabs per Key
Rubberdome = ~5.000.000
2.Speed
Rubberdome = Feels like a sponge no good response of keytab and stuff idk you know what i mean when you try a mech xD
MECHS:
Reds = Fast very soft to press no click (my fav)
Brown = Fast slight click most common one i think very good in my opinion
Blue = Fast + strong click but slow release i dont recommend them if you want to play fast maps
Black = the hardest to press idk never tryed them
Green(razor) = never tryed them but i heard they are like a mix of black and Blue
3. Noise
Mechs are significant louder then other Keyboards but you can pimp them with O-Rings/Paper/Styrofoam under your caps and place the Keyboard on top of a Towel/T-Shirt what ever to make them silent
car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96

ReTLoM wrote:

MECHS:
Reds = Fast very soft to press no click (my fav)
Brown = Fast slight click most common one i think very good in my opinion
Blue = Fast + strong click but slow release i dont recommend them if you want to play fast maps
Black = the hardest to press idk never tryed them
Green(razor) = never tried them but i heard they are like a mix of black and Blue

Yeah like, I can imagine them being better, but me playing around 2.1 star songs right now, is it worth it/ needed, to improve? Or is it better to say, once I reached 3 stars or something, it's gonna make a bigger difference and is worth it?
gintoki147
84 posts
Joined December 2012
gintoki147

car0line96 wrote:

Oh god that is gonna be so hard to do, I like sitting as low as possible, using an L-shaped desk so I can easily have both of my arms supported while still being comfy (I'm sitting right in the corner, one arm for each side of the L).
But I'll try to figure out ^^ Thanks <3 I hope it works out!!
Well, in that case, ReTLoM's towel suggestion will probably suit you better. D:

About mechs again, they're not needed, it's just preference, like the mouse x tablet war in std. I only bought mine because I needed a keyboard with NKRO so I could play 8k. I wasn't really expecting it to feel so comfortable, but it is. GOD I LOVE MY KEYBOARD
NightNarumi
254 posts
Joined May 2014
NightNarumi
I played with various keyboards and obviously ended with a mech keyboard with red keys (I love it!)
From my experience, I can say that you'll begin to feel a difference around 4 stars and above.
With your current keyboard, you will do just fine on 2-3 stars.
kaythen
205 posts
Joined January 2015
kaythen
- Use keybindings that are most comfortable to you. I play using Lshift z / Rshift with my wrists up for 4 keys. I used to keep my wrists down but I had the same problem as you and decided I'd just get used to wrists up and improve from there.

- I like to think keyboards are a personal preference. I've seen people do well with laptop keyboards but horribly on mechanical keyboards and vice versa.
Some are even good no matter what keyboard they use. You aren't playing 7 keys+ either so you don't have to worry about things like ghosting.

- If you feel pain, take a break. It's good to do stretches in between songs. Also if you're pressing the keys too hard (which could be a reason why your fingers hurt), you can try soften the keys by putting a towel on top of the keyboard.

- Don't tape your fingers. Just focus on your hand/finger movements. It will take some time but you'll get there eventually.
I would start playing slow songs where you have complete control of your fingers and slowly up the speed from there until you can control your hands even on faster songs.
car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96

gintoki147 wrote:

Well, in that case, ReTLoM's towel suggestion will probably suit you better. D:

About mechs again, they're not needed, it's just preference, like the mouse x tablet war in std. I only bought mine because I needed a keyboard with NKRO so I could play 8k. I wasn't really expecting it to feel so comfortable, but it is. GOD I LOVE MY KEYBOARD

Is it a bad way to sit? I mean, if people say, that's gonna be bad for the future, for getting used to sitting different once it matters more on a higher skill level or something? But I like to lean back with my arm just above belly button height? I know it sounds weird, but I have a 'foot chair' (from the launch couch :'D) so I'm sitting very comfy and laid back.. I can't imagine sitting with my legs on the floor anymore DD:
Which keyboard did you get?

NightNarumi wrote:

I played with various keyboards and obviously ended with a mech keyboard with red keys (I love it!)
From my experience, I can say that you'll begin to feel a difference around 4 stars and above.
With your current keyboard, you will do just fine on 2-3 stars.

Thanks, that's good to know ^~^ Something more to look forward to when I finally get there (maybe.. on day.. if...)

kaythen wrote:

- Use keybindings that are most comfortable to you. I play using Lshift z / Rshift with my wrists up for 4 keys. I used to keep my wrists down but I had the same problem as you and decided I'd just get used to wrists up and improve from there.
- I like to think keyboards are a personal preference. I've seen people do well with laptop keyboards but horribly on mechanical keyboards and vice versa.
Some are even good no matter what keyboard they use. You aren't playing 7 keys+ either so you don't have to worry about things like ghosting.
- If you feel pain, take a break. It's good to do stretches in between songs. Also if you're pressing the keys too hard (which could be a reason why your fingers hurt), you can try soften the keys by putting a towel on top of the keyboard.
- Don't tape your fingers. Just focus on your hand/finger movements. It will take some time but you'll get there eventually.
I would start playing slow songs where you have complete control of your fingers and slowly up the speed from there until you can control your hands even on faster songs.

*Yeah, I started trying different key bindings when I started learning 5k, just because I heard I kinda need to learn 7k to rank up more(?), and I've been trying E F space J O and DF space JK, I suck at 5k in general so not sure which is the better one :'D
BUT I'M SO GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!! I thought I was super weird and stuff but I'm glad it's not like I'm the only one ^.^
*True, I saw someone playing on an Apple Laptop I was like O.o But yeah, I'll get one when I am able to play like 3.5+ or something, it helps me practice more haha ^^ (Even tho I'm not looking forward to noisy key clicks while playing LoL with friends on ts :'D)
*Yes, that's definitely true, since I started playing like 2+ star songs that got really quick, I started to 'hammer' the keys more, to get the reaction force to get back in the air? I know it's not healthy but I haven't figured out a better way of playing ._.
A towel ON TOP of the keyboard? Then I can't see the keys/ feel the curbs on F and J to orientate? Or will I get used to that?
*Yeah I guess you're right :(
Thanks for the detailed reply, that definitely helped!!! <3
kaythen
205 posts
Joined January 2015
kaythen
You don't need 7k to rank up more. I'm primarily a 7k player but there are plenty of 4k players that are way ahead of me in rank. You can do fine with just 4k. Just keep playing the keymodes you enjoy most and the ranks will follow. You'll only need to play other keymodes if you want to be in the top 10 or something.
Just remember to have fun when you play. Don't force yourself to do something you don't like. This is a game after all.

Again, key bindings come down to preference. There is no 'best' layout. Do what works best for you. Though if you're picking up 5k as baby steps to 7k, it'll probably be best to keep their layouts similar so you'll be able to make a smoother transition and be more familiar with it. But as I said before, it's all preference, so you don't have to keep them similar at all if you find it uncomfortable.

I'm sure if you played using a towel for a bit, you'll get used to it. You don't need to look at what keys you're pressing anyway since you're looking at the screen. I don't even use the keys with the bumps on them (F and J) and I'm able to hit the keys without a problem.
NightNarumi
254 posts
Joined May 2014
NightNarumi
Yeah, you don't need to be able to play 7k if you want a high ranking (if you want top 100 or something, then you'll need it).
I also can't play 7k, tried for a bit, but I improve really slow on it (still at 2 stars currently).

The way you sit can help you actually, but impacts more on an higher level.
Sitting with your foots on the ground and with a straight back helps me focus more.
I also sit very laid back and relaxed sometimes, but it makes me a bit slower, while playing mania.
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM
i play only 7k and 4k is so hard for me ... xD cant press fast enough and my stamina in 4k EWWW after like 5* i cant do shit in 4k
car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96

kaythen wrote:

Just remember to have fun when you play. Don't force yourself to do something you don't like. This is a game after all.
[..]
I'm sure if you played using a towel for a bit, you'll get used to it. You don't need to look at what keys you're pressing anyway since you're looking at the screen. I don't even use the keys with the bumps on them (F and J) and I'm able to hit the keys without a problem.

Yeah I guess, I mean I would love to play 5+k but I know that I play by seeing and then doing and not just by reacting, so I'm kinda sure I'll struggle with this more than do good._. I just kinda got stuck around 2.2stars and I'm getting bored playing the same songs all the time :'D
And okay, I'll try the towel out now ^.^ Wish me luck :'D
//EDIT I tried but I loose the keys, I tried with a thin tank top where I could see a bit through where the keys where but it's still not really working on the long run, what kinda towel do you use? Like a kitchen cloth?

ReTLoM wrote:

i play only 7k and 4k is so hard for me ... xD cant press fast enough and my stamina in 4k EWWW after like 5* i cant do shit in 4k

Hmm... :'D And then there's me, being stuck at 2.2S :'(((



NightNarumi wrote:

Yeah, you don't need to be able to play 7k if you want a high ranking (if you want top 100 or something, then you'll need it).
I also can't play 7k, tried for a bit, but I improve really slow on it (still at 2 stars currently).
The way you sit can help you actually, but impacts more on an higher level.
Sitting with your foots on the ground and with a straight back helps me focus more.
I also sit very laid back and relaxed sometimes, but it makes me a bit slower, while playing mania.

Oh, okay, that's good, like, I thought it would make a bigger difference honestly than just for top 100. And I know I'm not gonna get there so :'D I'm already scared of getting put into my right country (waiting for osu support to change my flag since over two months[passport plus IGN picture is sent]), because in Germany I would be like rank 2k, something around that. But like.. Top 1k is the highest I could do ever on the UK ranking I think ^^
Yaaaaay, means I can keep sitting like this :'D <3
Last edited by car0line96 , edited 1 time in total.
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM
dont think to much about how and what to play :) just have fun and as soon something hurt stop and get rest 8-)
car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96

ReTLoM wrote:

dont think to much about how and what to play :) just have fun and as soon something hurt stop and get rest 8-)

I tryyy ^~^ It just gets frustrating only being able to play the same songs again and again._.
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM
download non ranked songs
http://osusearch.com/ CS = Amount of Key and dont use the genre/language shit it dosnt work on mania
car0line96
17 posts
Joined October 2016
Topic Starter
car0line96
Oh wow, this seems cool, thanks a lot *-*
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