Elmo and Cookie Monster - Cookie-Butter-Choco-Cookie [Osu|Ca · forum

Xinnoh

Elite Mapper

Joined April 2014

Xinnoh 2017-02-07T07:49:34+00:00

00:25:616 (5) - HItsound really doesn't fit on ctb cause it's not clickable, just leave normal here

Rain
00:08:410 (1,2) - Needs more movement here, could almost be a dash
00:11:278 (2) - If you're going to do that you need 5% volume
00:12:822 (4,1) - Move slightly further for background pitch change
00:13:484 (1,2) - Reduce distance a little, uncomfy
00:24:954 (4) - Curve for more catchable droplets?
00:26:057 (1) - Could add the farm part again if you want pp
Pretty much no issues in the second half, add this to your proudest mapping box.
00:33:116 (1) - Could use a hyper around here maybe
00:34:881 (1,2,3) - Inconsistent spacing on triple
00:37:969 (1) - Only 3/4 slider in the second half, may want to just do 1/2

OzzyOzrock

5,185 posts

Joined August 2010

OzzyOzrock 2017-02-07T07:51:02+00:00

talked to chromoxx, made muzu easier since it wasn't child friendly enough

SPOILER

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Creator:Monstrata
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Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-02-07T16:38:23+00:00

Sinnoh wrote:
00:25:616 (5) - HItsound really doesn't fit on ctb cause it's not clickable, just leave normal here I think it sounds okay to me but it's up to Monstrata

Rain
00:08:410 (1,2) - Needs more movement here, could almost be a dash Sure
00:11:278 (2) - If you're going to do that you need 5% volume Got messed up with hitsound copier, fixed!
00:12:822 (4,1) - Move slightly further for background pitch change mbomb style 1 grid increase
00:13:484 (1,2) - Reduce distance a little, uncomfy reworked a bit
00:24:954 (4) - Curve for more catchable droplets? slightly
00:26:057 (1) - Could add the farm part again if you want pp LOL it's really tempting but it's hard to justify here because I've followed vocals the whole time. You know how I work tho
Pretty much no issues in the second half, add this to your proudest mapping box. Ascendance and memes go hand in hand
00:33:116 (1) - Could use a hyper around here maybe Isn't it already a hyper?
00:34:881 (1,2,3) - Inconsistent spacing on triple fuck
00:37:969 (1) - Only 3/4 slider in the second half, may want to just do 1/2 The sounds are a bit different from each other, so I want to keep the 3/4 slider. If it's a serious issue tho, I don't mind changing it.

Thanks for modding!

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ArtistUnicode:エルモとクッキーモンスター
Creator:Monstrata
Version:Ascendance's Rain
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ZekeyHache

3,316 posts

Joined October 2009

ZekeyHache 2017-02-10T08:48:53+00:00

Hi~

[Rain's Easy]

00:38:410 (1) - The lyrics are very strong and outstanding here, I would suggest removing the spinner and map this part like everyone else did~

[Deppy's Normal]

00:34:881 (1) - idk if you care but this slider overlaps with that thingy below that changes depending on your accuracy (sry I never remember how that thing is called QAQ)

[Andrea's Hard]

From 00:01:352 - to 00:11:057 - your combos are every second measure and then after that is every single measure, any special reason for that or was it a mistake?
00:07:307 (6) - Andrea, is it really you? cuz that curve doesn't look smooth enough for Andrea quality~
00:39:734 (5,6) - use bigger spacing for emphasis perhaps?

[Foxy's Hard]

00:09:293 (3,1) - This blanket can still be improved a bit
00:20:101 (5,6) - another blanket that can be improved~
00:23:410 (4) - did you forgot nc for the sv change?
00:36:204 (6) - ^
00:35:101 (2,5) - blanket xd

[Gero's Hard]

00:08:851 (1,1) - Do you really need nc on these two? There's no sv change on them
00:37:087 (1,1) - ^

[Ren's Insane]

00:39:293 (1,2,3,4) - what about some variation to make it more fun?

[Sotarks' Insane]

00:09:734 (4) - nc for sv change

[NiNo's Insane]

00:24:734 (3,4) - I'm not a fan of the transition between these two objects, it just feels a bit uncomfortable going from (3) to (4)~ It would feel more natural this way imo~

[Irre's Extra]
Wow, so much NCs, do you think all of them are necessary?
Some of them felt unnecessary for me, like 00:03:557 (1,1) - 00:05:322 (1) - 00:30:028 (1,1) -

Good, feel free to call me back once everyone has replied to every mod~

Deppyforce

1,961 posts

Joined November 2014

Deppyforce 2017-02-10T09:00:11+00:00

idrc about the overlap but fixed anyways thanks!

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Version:Deppy's Normal
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btw mr monstrata my name doesnt have capital F can u fix creators word lma o

DeRandom Otaku

2,136 posts

Joined November 2014

DeRandom Otaku 2017-02-10T12:33:35+00:00

@ezek , cool idea . Fixed

Also copied hs from top diff because they were still missing lol

a

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Foxy Grandpa

709 posts

Joined January 2015

Foxy Grandpa 2017-02-11T19:04:40+00:00

ezek wrote:
Hi~
[Foxy's Hard]
00:09:293 (3,1) - This blanket can still be improved a bit Okay
00:20:101 (5,6) - another blanket that can be improved~ Not a blanket
00:23:410 (4) - did you forgot nc for the sv change? Fixed both
00:36:204 (6) - ^
00:35:101 (2,5) - blanket xd fixed
Good, feel free to call me back once everyone has replied to every mod~

Thanks!

I also fixed some geometry and shapes.

update

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Gero

4,438 posts

Joined March 2012

Gero 2017-02-14T05:28:08+00:00

Joey

Gero's Hard
00:21:204 (2,3,4) - Move the (3) to here maybe: http://puu.sh/sRYMG/de14cac8af.jpg I don't like it.
I like the diff, but it's a little weird how a Hard has a lot more triples than every Insane diff It's like a Hard+ after all, so I see no problems to keep it as is it.

Nao Tomori

[gero's hard]
00:08:851 (1) - the nc use here seems unnecessary, in monstrata's top diff he didnt use nc's here and i don't think it's needed because they're all the same word over and over. 00:29:587 (1,1,1) - same here and 00:36:646 (1) - same here. I've deleted them.

00:09:954 (2,3,4) - it doesn't feel like there's anything worth emphasizing on the big white tick here so it looks like the triple is just there for artificial difficulty. I'm really sure that there's some sounds at 1/4 as triple, so I'd prefer to keep it as is it.

Gus

[Gero's]

00:01:352 (1) - think head/tail should both be clickable Why? two 1/1 sliders works just fine in my opinion.

00:22:528 (1) - the diff so far has had a lot of copy/pasted mirrored sliders, so mirror 00:21:866 (4), the slider currently is kinda ugly I don't think so.

ezek

[Gero's Hard]

00:08:851 (1,1) - Do you really need nc on these two? There's no sv change on them I've fixed them already.
00:37:087 (1,1) - ^ Same as above.

Gero's Hard

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TitleUnicode:クッキー・バター・チョコ・クッキー
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ArtistUnicode:エルモとクッキーモンスター
Creator:Monstrata
Version:Gero's Hard
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Saileach

525 posts

Joined November 2014

Saileach 2017-02-14T06:10:25+00:00

ezek wrote:
Hi~

[Rain's Easy]
00:38:410 (1) - The lyrics are very strong and outstanding here, I would suggest removing the spinner and map this part like everyone else did~ Sure!

Good, feel free to call me back once everyone has replied to every mod~

Easy: Triangle

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JBHyperion

osu!catch Paragon

3,922 posts

Joined September 2014

JBHyperion 2017-02-14T17:10:35+00:00

Happy Valentine's Day, modding ctb diff so it doesn't get deleted

General

Idk why anyone would choose to map this shit but whatever
Show minigames' creators some love in beatmap description please
Top std diff relates to a username which RC forbids. I know you're going for the 4-word thing to fit with the song, so swap your name out for something else

Ascendance's Rain

00:09:072 (3,4) - Was expecting more of a jump here for the strong vocal, feels weird for this to be walkable when compared to e.g. 00:08:851 (2,3) -
00:14:587 (3,4,1) - Would equalise these distances to make a more comfortable walk
00:17:896 (4) - Tail could be moved away from the wall to minimise risk of flowstop
00:17:896 (4,5) - Slightly unexpected antiflow dash after the hyper, consider reducing slightly (2.0x feels more comfortable)
00:20:763 (1,2) - Would expect a little more spacing here based on the previous iteration 00:18:999 (1,2) - , this is easy to overwalk
00:24:954 (4) - Any reason why this slider after hyper is vertical when previous ones were curved? It's not necessarily an uncomfortable flowstop, just a bit unexpected
00:29:587 (1,2,3,4,1) - pp xD
00:34:881 (1) - Whistle on the tail seems unnecessary to me
00:37:969 (1) - Sounds awkward extended to 3/4, there's no sound on the beat and you didn't extend any other sliders in the diff this way

Rhythm and map are fairly simple so other than those, seems fine i guess

Hope this helps, good luck!

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-02-14T17:29:41+00:00

JBHyperion wrote:
Happy Valentine's Day, modding ctb diff so it doesn't get deleted

General
Idk why anyone would choose to map this shit but whatever
Show minigames' creators some love in beatmap description please
Top std diff relates to a username which RC forbids. I know you're going for the 4-word thing to fit with the song, so swap your name out for something else

Ascendance's Rain
00:09:072 (3,4) - Was expecting more of a jump here for the strong vocal, feels weird for this to be walkable when compared to e.g. 00:08:851 (2,3) - added distance yea
00:14:587 (3,4,1) - Would equalise these distances to make a more comfortable walk picky picky
00:17:896 (4) - Tail could be moved away from the wall to minimise risk of flowstop changed the whole slider into something else
00:17:896 (4,5) - Slightly unexpected antiflow dash after the hyper, consider reducing slightly (2.0x feels more comfortable) should be fixed with the above change
00:20:763 (1,2) - Would expect a little more spacing here based on the previous iteration 00:18:999 (1,2) - , this is easy to overwalk increase
00:24:954 (4) - Any reason why this slider after hyper is vertical when previous ones were curved? It's not necessarily an uncomfortable flowstop, just a bit unexpected there's no reason wew
00:29:587 (1,2,3,4,1) - pp xD XD
00:34:881 (1) - Whistle on the tail seems unnecessary to me htisound professional
00:37:969 (1) - Sounds awkward extended to 3/4, there's no sound on the beat and you didn't extend any other sliders in the diff this way I kinda like it cuz it's like emphasis into the last part here idk :dd
Rhythm and map are fairly simple so other than those, seems fine i guess
Hope this helps, good luck!

Thanks pal

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TitleUnicode:クッキー・バター・チョコ・クッキー
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ArtistUnicode:エルモとクッキーモンスター
Creator:Monstrata
Version:Ascendance's Rain
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JBHyperion

osu!catch Paragon

3,922 posts

Joined September 2014

JBHyperion 2017-02-14T19:00:50+00:00

Removed a few unnecessary green lines and buffed a volume section at 00:11:278 (2) - slightly.

That done, ctb diff is fine so std peeps feel free to go ahead.

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-02-14T19:01:33+00:00

JBHyperion wrote:
Removed a few unnecessary green lines and buffed a volume section at 00:11:278 (2) - slightly.

That done, ctb diff is fine so std peeps feel free to go ahead.

Thank you!!

Sotarks

3,493 posts

Joined May 2014

Sotarks 2017-02-14T19:04:19+00:00

monstrata pls fex the NC for me zz or I won't be able to fix until next week.. ski trip

Andrea

Beatmap Nominator

16,650 posts

Joined August 2008

Andrea 2017-02-14T20:40:47+00:00

ezek wrote:
[Andrea's Hard]
From 00:01:352 - to 00:11:057 - your combos are every second measure and then after that is every single measure, any special reason for that or was it a mistake? I'm following the instruments at the beginning, that's why combos are different.
00:07:307 (6) - Andrea, is it really you? cuz that curve doesn't look smooth enough for Andrea quality~ Fixed it a bit.
00:39:734 (5,6) - use bigger spacing for emphasis perhaps? I want the last note to end on the middle, so I'll keep it for now.

Thank you ezek!

Here's the update: https://puu.sh/u3ghi/5dd3712f92.rar

Irreversible

osu! Alumni

4,315 posts

Joined December 2011

Irreversible 2017-02-14T23:45:18+00:00

Fixed all

http://puu.sh/u3tL9/3796c3a788.txt

SnowNiNo_

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

2,106 posts

Joined April 2013

SnowNiNo_ 2017-02-15T06:35:53+00:00

@ezek : fixed

aa

osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 11885
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: None
StackLeniency: 0.7
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 0

[Editor]
DistanceSpacing: 2.2
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 1

[Metadata]
Title:Cookie-Butter-Choco-Cookie
TitleUnicode:クッキー・バター・チョコ・クッキー
Artist:Elmo and Cookie Monster
ArtistUnicode:エルモとクッキーモンスター
Creator:Monstrata
Version:NiNo's Insane
Source:セサミストリート
Tags:cbcc ppap pikotaro sesame street ozzyozrock ozzy irre irreversible nino snownino_ haruto haruto_aizawa haruto- sotarks xvoir linada red derandom otaku derandom_otaku Gero Foxy FoxyGrandpa Akitoshi Corinn Andrea osuplayer111 Deppyforce -_Rain_- Rain ascendance
BeatmapID:1150597
BeatmapSetID:542081

[Difficulty]
HPDrainRate:5
CircleSize:4.5
OverallDifficulty:8
ApproachRate:8
SliderMultiplier:1.9
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
0,0,"thank+mr+monstrata.jpg",0,0
//Break Periods
//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

[TimingPoints]
1352,441.176470588235,4,2,0,70,1,0
4881,-100,4,3,0,60,0,0
8410,-83.3333333333333,4,3,0,60,0,0
9734,-83.3333333333333,4,2,0,80,0,0
10175,-100,4,3,0,60,0,0
24293,-100,4,3,0,60,0,0
26057,-100,4,2,0,80,0,0
31351,-100,4,2,0,50,0,0
32234,-100,4,2,0,75,0,0
33116,-100,4,3,0,75,0,0
38410,-100,4,3,0,35,0,0
38851,-100,4,3,0,55,0,0
39293,-100,4,3,0,75,0,0
39734,-100,4,3,0,95,0,0
40175,-100,4,2,0,25,0,0
41940,-100,4,2,0,5,0,0


[Colours]
Combo1 : 204,102,0
Combo2 : 255,85,85
Combo3 : 102,171,255
Combo4 : 255,255,83

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Foxy Grandpa

709 posts

Joined January 2015

Foxy Grandpa 2017-02-16T21:58:18+00:00

@Monstrata Can you add an nc 00:16:351 (3) - here for me since i forgot to change it aaa

ZekeyHache

3,316 posts

Joined October 2009

ZekeyHache 2017-02-18T17:56:04+00:00

JBHyperion wrote:
That done, ctb diff is fine so std peeps feel free to go ahead.

cool~

unko

517 posts

Joined March 2014

unko 2017-02-18T18:38:04+00:00

Scuttlebug isn't a farm map bubble that instead

JBHyperion

osu!catch Paragon

3,922 posts

Joined September 2014

JBHyperion 2017-02-18T18:43:57+00:00

ezek wrote:
JBHyperion wrote:
That done, ctb diff is fine so std peeps feel free to go ahead.
cool~

yo dude where's my kudosu xd

fieryrage

osu! Champion / Elite Nominator II

1,402 posts

Joined November 2013

fieryrage 2017-02-18T19:04:53+00:00

bubble guilty all the same

Nao

76 posts

Joined August 2015

Nao 2017-02-18T19:08:10+00:00

please dont rank this

unko

517 posts

Joined March 2014

unko 2017-02-18T19:22:53+00:00

There is a perfectly good scuttlebug family waiting for a ranking

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Topic Starter

Monstrata 2017-02-18T20:10:30+00:00

Aaa forgot about that, my bad JBH.

Naxess

Nomination Assessment Team

390 posts

Joined March 2016

Naxess 2017-02-18T20:35:04+00:00

Greetings! I have some concerns regarding this mapset.

I'm going to go straight to the point. The spacing in most of the higher difficulties is chaos. Just because the average jump is half of the screen doesn't make them any more justified as a whole, in any way. Just because you can make the common sound go halfway across the screen, does not mean you should. You may interpret the song in this way, but I can guarantee you that you'll have people disagreeing with this interpretation.

[Cookie-Triangle-Spicy-Cookie]

00:01:352 (1,2) - 00:03:337 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Already from the first note you're conveying that these sounds are very intense, due to the difficulty of aiming the notes which reflect this in the map. This will ultimately end up destroying your overall potential of emphasis in the map, since everything is relative. Let me remind you that how well you accentuate something is not the same thing as how difficult it is to play something. It's only the difference between them that can accomplish this.

00:04:881 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - was a good approach in trying to differentiate parts of the song, but the spacing of it's section is extremely inconsistent, with 00:06:425 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - being completely different, despite it's musical similarities.

00:09:734 (1,1) - Momentum isn't exactly going in this direction either, and since it's the sound that is landed on in this case that determines it's prior distance, and that the sound itself doesn't sound out in the song, it is not reflecting it very well.

00:13:263 (7,8) - Honestly don't see why this should be spaced as much as it is. If you remove the note you'll notice that the sound it's reflecting is very faint, yet it has the same distance as 00:13:043 (6,7) - and 00:12:160 (2,3) - .

00:11:940 (1,2) - If you compare this with 00:13:484 (8,1) - there's also some very apparent inconsistencies.

In 00:11:940 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - , snares are actually somewhat emphasized in comparison to the other sounds, but in 00:13:925 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - these other sounds are sometimes even more spaced. Refer to 00:12:381 (3,4) - and 00:14:146 (2,3) - in comparison to 00:12:160 (2,3) - and 00:13:925 (1,2) - .

00:16:351 (3,4) - Having clearly different sounds symmetrical like this will make you lose relevance with the song. Instead, make (3) a 3/4 slider and arrange them similarly to like you did at 00:23:410 (1,2) - , using the same principles. In this case even the SV change is different, which makes little sense. Also NC.

00:17:675 (3,4) - This last sound isn't like the others, but it's not reflected in any way through the map, which I find odd.

I don't mean to ruin your patterns, but 00:19:219 (1,2,3) - and 00:12:160 (2,3,4) - are analogous measures, yet, again, their spacing is quite inconsistent to say the least.

00:20:101 (5,6) - What are you even following here. I can't hear any sound as intense as what you're making this out to be. If you're referring to the snare, how come 00:19:219 (1,2) - , and all the previous ones, differ so much? At this point I don't even know if you're ignoring the snares or not because they don't seem to hold any relevance to the map other than in the first of these patterns.

00:21:646 (4,5,6,7) - These are, once again, not the same sounds so I don't see why you'd be making a pattern like this out of them. You mapped that last sound much better at 00:15:028 (6,7) - than you did here at 00:22:087 (6,7) - , because of the clear difference in spacing in comparison to the rest.

00:22:307 (7,1) - Is spaced pretty much exactly like 00:22:528 (1,2) - or any other sound is, despite these not being the same sounds.

00:32:234 (1,2) - These are different from 00:32:676 (3,4) - . Honestly I would recommend you prioritize the song over your patterns. We are trying to reflect the songs with our maps, right?

00:31:351 (1,2) - Doesn't even sound much different from 00:32:234 (1,2) -

00:33:116 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Yes, this is kiai. No, this does not mean you can suddenly start building up into full-screen jumps. Also isn't this the same sounds as 00:04:881 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - ? The only difference is that you decided to add audible hitsounds on all the circles to make them seem like they're meant to be more intense.

00:34:660 - The longer sounds also kind of fail being reflected here because it's all just a giant pattern of circles, which makes it really monotonous, when in reality you could have used cues in the song to make it more diverse.

00:36:204 (7) - There's a vocal here which deserves emphasis, and it seems like you have tried to convey that, but when all previous notes are distanced in the same way, this becomes very difficult to do. If the majority of other notes were clearly differentiated, for example by not all being sharp angles, or at least being in some kind of recognizable pattern, then you could have brought this out much better in accordance with the song, rather than making it look and play like a giant buildup which isn't supported by the song.

00:36:866 (2) - Also makes very little sense that this would be further away from (1) than (3) is from this, if you're truly trying to accent vocals. At the moment, and to be completely honest, they seem like random wack-a-mole to the bpm, which obviously isn't an interpretation you would appreciate of your map, isn't that right? So instead, try keeping your concepts and spacing consistent with what is heard in the song that your beatmap is following. You could even take this opportunity to use sliders rather than circles, since some beats are stronger than others.

00:38:410 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - This is just very over the top in my opinion. There's not even a beat going on here. Yes, they are prominent, and a clear buildup, but, again, not to the degree that this is made out to be. Even something like this would work much better.

Making changes to the mentioned parts will make your difficulty easier, and I would understand if this isn't something you would want, but I do not believe the map to be ready in this state, as it loses a large amount of relevance to the song. Many parts are extremely inconsistent and others simply aren't supported in the way they are mapped.

It's not only this last difficulty, though. Many of the other difficulties also have problems in these regards, and it would take a very long time for me to look over all of these in detail, so I would recommend you both thoroughly reconsider these, as well as gather more mods before pushing this forward.

Should you disagree with what is said in this post, then feel free to ask other nominators, just as I have, or bring your concerns and questions directly to me. Good luck!

I Must Decrease

908 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2017-02-18T20:40:53+00:00

i guess monstratas spicy triangle isnt so spicy after all..

im hilarious

hi-mei

784 posts

Joined June 2014

hi-mei 2017-02-18T20:44:00+00:00

lmao

Weriko

182 posts

Joined December 2015

Weriko 2017-02-18T20:45:40+00:00

cookie...zi butter cookie....

Weedy

773 posts

Joined January 2014

Weedy 2017-02-18T20:52:39+00:00

please reconsider the pop this is a high quality DT set with more diffs than no title thx

GENDER BENDER

196 posts

Joined June 2013

GENDER BENDER 2017-02-18T20:54:00+00:00

i agree with pop tbh, forced jump to raise star rating disgusting

unko

517 posts

Joined March 2014

unko 2017-02-18T21:08:43+00:00

Scuttlebug doesn't een have a bublbe

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-02-18T21:37:03+00:00

Who is Naxess lol

I Must Decrease

908 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2017-02-18T21:43:51+00:00

Ascendance wrote:
Who is Naxess lol

~~why does that matter~~ your map's worst nightmare

Ashton

Ashton 2017-02-18T21:51:19+00:00

i guess it's how you look at the map

isn't this map supposed to be a jump flowy sort of map? Wasn't that it's original intentions? I kind of like it tbh

~~also free pp~~

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Topic Starter

Monstrata 2017-02-18T21:58:08+00:00

Naxess wrote:
Greetings! I have some concerns regarding this mapset.

I'm going to go straight to the point. The spacing in most of the higher difficulties is chaos. Just because the average jump is half of the screen doesn't make them any more justified as a whole, in any way. Just because you can make the common sound go halfway across the screen, does not mean you should. You may interpret the song in this way, but I can guarantee you that you'll have people disagreeing with this interpretation.

[Cookie-Triangle-Spicy-Cookie]

00:01:352 (1,2) - 00:03:337 (2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Already from the first note you're conveying that these sounds are very intense, due to the difficulty of aiming the notes which reflect this in the map. This will ultimately end up destroying your overall potential of emphasis in the map, since everything is relative. Let me remind you that how well you accentuate something is not the same thing as how difficult it is to play something. It's only the difference between them that can accomplish this. Visually this sets the tone for the rest of the map because it demonstrates a visual gap you would associate with jumps later on in the map. However, the difference here is that these are slider jumps. They are much easier to land, plus due to slider-end leniency you can begin the jump to the next object at an earlier time than say a circle > circle jump. Your point would be absolutely accurate if this were a circle though.

00:04:881 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - was a good approach in trying to differentiate parts of the song, but the spacing of it's section is extremely inconsistent, with 00:06:425 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - being completely different, despite it's musical similarities. Well, I wanted some variety here, but I'm fine with making this bigger.

00:09:734 (1,1) - Momentum isn't exactly going in this direction either, and since it's the sound that is landed on in this case that determines it's prior distance, and that the sound itself doesn't sound out in the song, it is not reflecting it very well. The idea here is to force the player to slightly go back on themselves, creating a flowbreak occuring in transition from one slider to another. It's a form of emphasis that doesn't utilize jumps.

00:13:263 (7,8) - Honestly don't see why this should be spaced as much as it is. If you remove the note you'll notice that the sound it's reflecting is very faint, yet it has the same distance as 00:13:043 (6,7) - and 00:12:160 (2,3) - . Sure. Made this smaller. Also remapped this jump pattern taking into account your points from below

00:11:940 (1,2) - If you compare this with 00:13:484 (8,1) - there's also some very apparent inconsistencies. ^

In 00:11:940 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - , snares are actually somewhat emphasized in comparison to the other sounds, but in 00:13:925 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - these other sounds are sometimes even more spaced. Refer to 00:12:381 (3,4) - and 00:14:146 (2,3) - in comparison to 00:12:160 (2,3) - and 00:13:925 (1,2) - . ^

00:16:351 (3,4) - Having clearly different sounds symmetrical like this will make you lose relevance with the song. Instead, make (3) a 3/4 slider and arrange them similarly to like you did at 00:23:410 (1,2) - , using the same principles. In this case even the SV change is different, which makes little sense. Also NC. I disagree about your argument about losing song relevancy due to using the same visual for different sounds. I think it creates a consistency within the map actually. But I mapped this differenly on my lower difficulties so I'll do so here too and use a different slider design and slightly increased SV.

00:17:675 (3,4) - This last sound isn't like the others, but it's not reflected in any way through the map, which I find odd. The last sound is just like the others though. It's the 4th syllable in Cho-Co-Coo-Kie xD

I don't mean to ruin your patterns, but 00:19:219 (1,2,3) - and 00:12:160 (2,3,4) - are analogous measures, yet, again, their spacing is quite inconsistent to say the least. Since I remapped the first jump, this should be fine, but I took added measure and made the second jump feel more intuitive as well.

00:20:101 (5,6) - What are you even following here. I can't hear any sound as intense as what you're making this out to be. If you're referring to the snare, how come 00:19:219 (1,2) - , and all the previous ones, differ so much? At this point I don't even know if you're ignoring the snares or not because they don't seem to hold any relevance to the map other than in the first of these patterns. Yep. I redo'ing this pattern I decided to lessen the emphasis onto the snare.

00:21:646 (4,5,6,7) - These are, once again, not the same sounds so I don't see why you'd be making a pattern like this out of them. You mapped that last sound much better at 00:15:028 (6,7) - than you did here at 00:22:087 (6,7) - , because of the clear difference in spacing in comparison to the rest. This is simply pattern consistency. Same sound = same pattern and different sound = different pattern create a very boring map imo. But of course, it's a map that will no doubt follow the song to a tee. Feel free to disagree here, we can discuss this further as I have no trouble fixing this if necessary.

00:22:307 (7,1) - Is spaced pretty much exactly like 00:22:528 (1,2) - or any other sound is, despite these not being the same sounds. Visual spacing, and actual emphasis are very different though. Visually they can appear the same, but when you play them, the sliders are much easier to land due to slider leniency which I've explained in your first point.

00:32:234 (1,2) - These are different from 00:32:676 (3,4) - . Honestly I would recommend you prioritize the song over your patterns. We are trying to reflect the songs with our maps, right? No, I disagree with reflecting the songs with our maps. I think that's a mapping philosophy that produces bland and uninteresting maps. The pattern consistency here is quite necessary, otherwise the previous square feels out of place and unsupported. If your view is simply to map for the song, then I encourage you to try out some more creative means of mapping. You could check out my quaver map, or Nandemo Nai ya, or even Can Do, those are good examples of maps that use patterns that don't follow the song. The song doesn't call for 7 different mapping interpretations in Can Do, and it doesn't call for left/right mapping styles in Nandemo Nai ya, yet using these concepts create really imaginative ways of expressing the song past simply following it. I guess this paragraph is concerned with addressing your philosophy though, and not so much this pattern.

00:31:351 (1,2) - Doesn't even sound much different from 00:32:234 (1,2) - ^

00:33:116 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Yes, this is kiai. No, this does not mean you can suddenly start building up into full-screen jumps. Also isn't this the same sounds as 00:04:881 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - ? The only difference is that you decided to add audible hitsounds on all the circles to make them seem like they're meant to be more intense. I buffed the previous jump to create a better consistency here. In any case though these are not full screen jumps really. They only build up to full screen jumps on 00:37:749 (6,7) - unless you consider vertical full screen jumps in your definition (personally vertical jumps are much easier tho). Anyways, this is a very common jump pattern I've utilized in many of my maps, and I would like to keep this because of its relation to the difficulty's name too xD. Here, the goal isn't to create emphasis with every other note mapping to a snare, its to create consistency in spacing, with an emphasis on when the patterns diverge, in order to emphasize all of 00:35:984 (6,7,8) - . Emphasis doesn't always have to be self-contained in one particular jump. This is the idea of foregrounding, where a specific pattern is set up to be the same so as to foreground the divergence (which happens to map to elmo's woah! as well as wind up the spacing for the final 6 jumps).

00:34:660 - The longer sounds also kind of fail being reflected here because it's all just a giant pattern of circles, which makes it really monotonous, when in reality you could have used cues in the song to make it more diverse. Diversity is not a good idea here. Consistency is better for reasons I explained earler. Also, if you want diversity, usually you want to have a reason for the diversity, ie to foreground a certain sound that you plan on utilizing. The reason youre giving for switching rhythms is simply for "more diversity" which isn't a strong argument.

00:36:204 (7) - There's a vocal here which deserves emphasis, and it seems like you have tried to convey that, but when all previous notes are distanced in the same way, this becomes very difficult to do. If the majority of other notes were clearly differentiated, for example by not all being sharp angles, or at least being in some kind of recognizable pattern, then you could have brought this out much better in accordance with the song, rather than making it look and play like a giant buildup which isn't supported by the song. As I've hopefully explained above.

00:36:866 (2) - Also makes very little sense that this would be further away from (1) than (3) is from this, if you're truly trying to accent vocals. At the moment, and to be completely honest, they seem like random wack-a-mole to the bpm, which obviously isn't an interpretation you would appreciate of your map, isn't that right? So instead, try keeping your concepts and spacing consistent with what is heard in the song that your beatmap is following. You could even take this opportunity to use sliders rather than circles, since some beats are stronger than others. Same idea about foregrounding 00:37:749 (6,7) - . Also emphasizing every note correctly in big jumps like this is not a good idea imo. The jumps currently contain similar DS structures, i don't want to emphasize them too much because when dealing with large jumps its much better to be consistent. Expressing emphasis through individual jump patterns is usually a good idea to maintain in simpler jumps but if you look at jumpy 6+ star maps, generally there is very little specific spacing change within jumps. The majority comes from the pattern holisitically becoming bigger.

00:38:410 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - This is just very over the top in my opinion. There's not even a beat going on here. Yes, they are prominent, and a clear buildup, but, again, not to the degree that this is made out to be. Even something like this would work much better.
It's a bit over the top, but I quite enjoy it. I already discussed this with a few people and nerfed the spacing from the quaver jumps that used to occur here. This is the highest difficulty and the BPM is quite low so the jumps are good for challenging players.

Making changes to the mentioned parts will make your difficulty easier, and I would understand if this isn't something you would want, but I do not believe the map to be ready in this state, as it loses a large amount of relevance to the song. Many parts are extremely inconsistent and others simply aren't supported in the way they are mapped.

It's not only this last difficulty, though. Many of the other difficulties also have problems in these regards, and it would take a very long time for me to look over all of these in detail, so I would recommend you both thoroughly reconsider these, as well as gather more mods before pushing this forward.

Should you disagree with what is said in this post, then feel free to ask other nominators, just as I have, or bring your concerns and questions directly to me. Good luck!

[]

In summary, it looks like the main points of contention are:

00:01:352 (1,2) - These jumps are too big. I believe they are fine since slider-slider jumps are much easier than similar circle > slider jumps due to how you can begin the jump earlier on a slider, as well as the slider leniency allowing more room to prepare the jump.
00:09:734 (1) - Not following momentum. My argument is that i'm using transitional flowbreak to create emphasis.
00:17:896 (4) - This doesn't seem to emphasis anything. My argument is that it's for the 4th syllable in Choco Cookie.
00:21:646 (4,5,6,7) - 4/5 and 6/7 are different sounds so they should have different patterns associated with them. My argument is just pattern consistency.
00:32:234 (1,2,3,4) - This not being a good pattern due to 3/4 being very different from 1/2 in terms of sound. My argument is pattern consistency.
00:33:116 - Spacing these triangles similarly does not create note-specific emphasis. My argument is that I prefer consistency here in terms of both rhythm and spacing in order to make the divergence from this pattern more noticeable and create emphasis around that. Namely, setting up the pattern for 00:35:984 (6,7) - .
00:38:410 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Being over the top. My argument is, it's a low bpm song and I want to challenge players. This is not hard to land. I'm open to suggestions that maintain my intention of challenging the player though.

[]

Thanks for the mod! I was expecting a bubble pop so I had some alternatives planned. Luckily the major patterns you suggested were part of them. I'd like to hear your opinions on those aforementioned points where we ended up disagreeing on. Generally, your view on mapping seems to be very text-book, as in strong sounds should be mapped to jumps/emphasis, and if something sounds different it should be mapped differently. I hope we can come to some consensus.

I Must Decrease

908 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2017-02-18T22:00:40+00:00

Monstrata wrote:
Thanks for the mod! I was expecting a bubble pop

maybe that's a sign u should probably not do what you're trying to do...

Aeril

Beatmap Nominator

666 posts

Joined May 2014

Aeril 2017-02-18T22:03:27+00:00

To be honest, I don't know why people make such a big deal/problem over supposed "pp jumps" or really difficult for no reason. If a map is structured fine with difficulty in the map being relatively more or less difficult in relation to other parts of the song and it has all the other bits and bobs that makes a map a decent map, I don't think it's such a big deal that "HOYL PP JUMPS, UNRANKABLE SHIT MAP"...

In other news, personally I think in "Spicy Cookie", if you have the build up over here 00:33:116 - becoming so highly spaced, the verses over at 00:11:940 - should be spaced a bit more because its a bit disorienting for the most memorable and (imo) most important/intense part of the song having much less spacing than the majority of the build up.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Topic Starter

Monstrata 2017-02-18T22:03:45+00:00

Nah. Like we discussed Xexxar. I had already anticipated people would have different views on how I'd map things. It's the same with other maps like quaver/Can Do/Delta Decision etc... where there are some patterns that I would prefer to keep, but have alternatives in mind in case those patterns become obstructions to the ranking process.

Nao Tomori

Nomination Assessment Team

3,089 posts

Joined December 2014

Nao Tomori 2017-02-18T22:26:55+00:00

hi guys, concerned community member here!

i had some (subjective) issues with irre's diff.

[irre's extra]
00:03:337 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4) - i believe that this change in spacing is far too drastic, in my opinion the part before the vocals isn't really that quiet or unemphasized or w/e. for example, 00:02:234 (1) - is another beat with no vocals in the intro, and it has much higher spacing. i believe you should increase the spacing on the first 3 circles to make the sudden difference less pronounced.

00:07:749 (1,2,3) - there isn't any real reason for the 3rd circle in this pattern to be double the spacing of 1 or 2, especially considering that 2 is the note with more emphasis due to the louder drum noise.

00:13:263 (4) - i don't understand why this note has this much spacing and a decently awkward wide angle on top of that. it doesn't have a vocal or anything, and using a repeat slider here has the adverse effect of putting a stronger drum sound on a slider end.

in addition, 00:13:925 (1) - now has much lower spacing than the rest of the notes in that pattern despite being of around the same strength.

00:17:234 (1,2,3,4) - i don't think you should use this big of a wide angle here, considering that the next time you do this pattern you use a sharp angle instead (i know it's copy pasted but the movement required for similar sounds is really different due to the difference in angles.)
i believe they should be made more similar.

00:26:057 (1,2,3) - i don't agree with the difference in spacing with 00:27:822 (1,2,3) - , i think the first pattern's spacing should be increased a bit, same reason as the first time.

00:35:984 (1,2,3) - same thing as earlier, emphasis is wrong.

00:38:631 (2,1) - this is way too small imo, the spacing increase is very large when compared to 00:38:851 (1,2) - even though there is not much of a change in intensity.

i hope this helps!

Elmo and Cookie Monster - Cookie-Butter-Choco-Cookie [Osu|Ca

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Elmo and Cookie Monster - Cookie-Butter-Choco-Cookie [Osu|Ca

Sinnoh wrote:

ezek wrote:

ezek wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

ezek wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

ezek wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

Ascendance wrote:

Naxess wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

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