yes, it is a tiering per-hit-gain upon combo increase, capping out eventually. scorev2 combo portion does sort of the same, however does only affect 20% of the actual score, therefore making the impact to the overall resulting score less than current scorev1.
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Taiko ScoreV2 Discussion
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Yes, but it caps out at 100 combo which means that currently you will get the same score if you break combo once no matter at what part of the song unless it's within the first and last 100 notes where you will lose less. What this achieves is predictability and consistency - even across different maps. On regular notes a combo break will net you about 40k score loss, no matter what map or where the combo break was. This system is inherently fair and predictable which can't be said about the new system which lacks the transparency of the current scoring system.Loctav wrote:
yes, it is a tiering per-hit-gain upon combo increase, capping out eventually. scorev2 combo portion does sort of the same, however does only affect 20% of the actual score, therefore making the impact to the overall resulting score less than current scorev1.
I hope you realise that 'eventually' is at 100 combo, so in your example (ignoring spinners/finishers/kiai) neither player would be 'extremely penalized' more so than the other. This is not standard, breaking combo mid-map vs early in the map has very little difference.Loctav wrote:
capping out eventually
Let me post my personal opinion.
Will there be only ScoreV2 one day?
If so,please make slider,spinner and notelock make sense.
To defining highest score will not matter,but please do not let 1,000,000 include any sliders and any spinners.
Objectively speaking,current ScoreV2 does not make sense because of sliders and spinners. I think they should be "Additional Score" in taiko.
Then,let sliders enable score. In detail,to enable to get a score per players tap their keyboard(like original taiko)
I expect this will make sense more than current specification.
As you guys know,HP Drain system with notelocking is kind of annoying. I do not have anything to say especially.
About finishers,let me say "do not let finishers be Combobreak". That's it.
If there will be only ScoreV2,I swear this would become biggest problem of it.
Thanks :3
Will there be only ScoreV2 one day?
If so,please make slider,spinner and notelock make sense.
To defining highest score will not matter,but please do not let 1,000,000 include any sliders and any spinners.
Objectively speaking,current ScoreV2 does not make sense because of sliders and spinners. I think they should be "Additional Score" in taiko.
Then,let sliders enable score. In detail,to enable to get a score per players tap their keyboard
I expect this will make sense more than current specification.
As you guys know,HP Drain system with notelocking is kind of annoying. I do not have anything to say especially.
About finishers,let me say "do not let finishers be Combobreak". That's it.
If there will be only ScoreV2,I swear this would become biggest problem of it.
Thanks :3
To be perfectly honest I feel like this entire new score V2 for Taiko is only a thing because "hey we made a score V2 for the other gamemodes, we should also make one for Taiko!" Taiko is honestly the only gamemode that didn't need a score V2 as the scoring system had a good balance between ACC & combo as combo only built up to 100 for points. With mania it was needed as combo had 0 importance and it was definitely needed in standard as ACC was irrelevant if you could hold a great combo.
Edgar_Figaro wrote:
To be perfectly honest I feel like this entire new score V2 for Taiko is only a thing because "hey we made a score V2 for the other gamemodes, we should also make one for Taiko!" Taiko is honestly the only gamemode that didn't need a score V2 as the scoring system had a good balance between ACC & combo as combo only built up to 100 for points.
After long and careful consideration I think I came up with the perfect solution for the Taiko Score V2 issue:
How about you entirely scrap what you have right now, listen to what the community (you know, those guys who actually play and keep the game alive) wants and reevaluate the whole system?
I don't mind if you change how the score is calculated exactly or if you introduce a score limit, rebalance accuracy vs. combo value in score. But don't touch the actual gameplay of Taiko, that's just asking for disaster to happen.
What's the reason behind Score V2 for Taiko anyways? Noone asked for this or remotely wants it. Did people complain about score calculation in Taiko?
Wouldn't this development time be better invested in the bigger issues Taiko has, issues that the community has actually asked you to fix?
Change doesn't always equal improvement.
How about you entirely scrap what you have right now, listen to what the community (you know, those guys who actually play and keep the game alive) wants and reevaluate the whole system?
I don't mind if you change how the score is calculated exactly or if you introduce a score limit, rebalance accuracy vs. combo value in score. But don't touch the actual gameplay of Taiko, that's just asking for disaster to happen.
What's the reason behind Score V2 for Taiko anyways? Noone asked for this or remotely wants it. Did people complain about score calculation in Taiko?
Wouldn't this development time be better invested in the bigger issues Taiko has, issues that the community has actually asked you to fix?
Change doesn't always equal improvement.
It's just like back in the old 2008 days
I usually don't involve myself in forums like this, but shit, I need to get this out.
Listen, nobody asked for this, everybody in the forums are complaining except for loctav. You guys clearly have no fucking idea what you're doing, listen to *us* for a change.
Normal notes are unchanged. Scoring is 300 for an accurate hit, 100 for an inaccurate hit.This is the only thing I agree with.
Finishers are calculated last and are worth 4x the score. E.g. 300 normal -> 1200 finisher. 350 drum roll -> 1400 finisher.No. Why the hell, would a double press be REQUIRED, to hit the note. Do you have any idea, how difficult so many maps would become, just because of this? The way we have it now is totally okay. If you hit it like a normal note, it's treated like a normal note. Nobody has *ever* complained about this. If you want the bonus points, hit it like a double. Bam. World moves on.
Finishers require double presses, like a double chord in osu!mania. Lenience has not been adjusted for this.
Drum roll ticks are worth 350 points.Drum roll ticks should not be counted towards combo, what the hell are you thinking?! They're just supposed to be bonus points, this shouldn't be touched, it's not significant, so many maps don't even *have* drum rolls ffs!!! They have NEVER counted for combo and it should stay that way, some sliders just ninja you and they're so short that like, you don't even get to hit them. Oh but that's right, who cares about unranked maps. It's not like every map starts unranked, right loctav? Who cares about unranked maps, like Doppelganger should have fucking been. HP is just stupid period for this.
Drum roll ticks are forced to 1/4 spacing.
Drum roll ticks are counted towards the "combo" portion of the score, as such they affect how close you get to 1000000 score.
Upon completion of a drum roll, a miss will be given if the player has hit less than 30% of the ticks (unsuccessful), otherwise a 300 hit will be given.
Drum rolls award HP for each tick and for successful completion of the drum roll.
A miss will be given upon unsuccessful completion of a spinner.A miss given for a not completed spinner? Are you kidding me?! WHO DOESN'T COMPLETE SPINNERS?! NOBODY WOULD EVEN NOTICE FFS!! Except when there's ninja spinners but oh right, unranked maps don't matter, only ranked maps amirite. And screw the loved category too why don't we. I can probably get used to the 300 hit eventually. Again HP is just kinda dumb for this.
A 300 hit will be given upon successful completion of a spinner.
Spinners award around half the HP of drum rolls for each hit and for successful completion of the spinner.
Taiko now has HP. HP values are calculated exactly the same as osu!mania.No.
Listen, nobody asked for this, everybody in the forums are complaining except for loctav. You guys clearly have no fucking idea what you're doing, listen to *us* for a change.
not everybody is complaining, always remember that.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean Nwolf, almost every pro player I know is complaining!!!! This isn't even ScoreV2, this is TAIKOV2!! Not everyone is complaining, so if like, three or four people aren't complaining, then it's okay to change it for the whole fucking community? How about fuck no, why not take a poll and see the true statistics about this or something like that.
The only people who aren't complaining are staff members, but sure let's just forget about the people who PLAY the game, right, because the people who have to deal with all the staff's shit don't matter, as long as the staff and devs have it their way, doesn't matter if so much of the community is upset, right?!
The only people who aren't complaining are staff members, but sure let's just forget about the people who PLAY the game, right, because the people who have to deal with all the staff's shit don't matter, as long as the staff and devs have it their way, doesn't matter if so much of the community is upset, right?!
Personally I'm fine with spinners/sliders, since they seem to have some plans for adjusting sliders to play differently than they currently do.
However, finishers and hp drain feel like unnecessary changes.
The way taiko is mapped/played is balanced based on the current hp drain system. Yes, it wouldn't make any difference if you fc a map. But a lot of the time people play maps that are harder/have sections that would cause instant failure if the hp system was changed. Yes, a lot of these maps are unranked. But they still matter. There are obviously far more unranked maps than ranked maps, and I honestly probably play more unranked maps than ranked maps anyways. A lot of songs don't have ranked maps, and there really just aren't that many ranked maps I enjoy playing. It's true you can just play it with nofail since it's unranked anyways, but this would affect people playing unranked maps in multi for fun. Honestly, it's not THAT bad of a change, but it just feels kind of.. unnecesssary.
As for finishers, 4x score seems fine to me as a way to encourage actually hitting them with two fingers. However, I don't think what happens if you hit it with one key should be changed. Even if you just imagine actually playing a taiko, if you hit it with two sticks at the same time yes it will be louder, but one still makes a sound.
EDIT: Mentioning converts, I'm fine with them not being counted as ranked but please leave the convert system to play converted maps, because some songs just don't have a taiko map, whether ranked or unranked, and some converts are fun to play.
No comment on the score system changes because I don't think I know enough to say whether or not it's balanced.
As for its use in competition, which is the goal, I think only the finisher change is a problem because it limits which maps can be selected and also affects the playstyle of the competitors, severely hindering ddkk players.
However, finishers and hp drain feel like unnecessary changes.
The way taiko is mapped/played is balanced based on the current hp drain system. Yes, it wouldn't make any difference if you fc a map. But a lot of the time people play maps that are harder/have sections that would cause instant failure if the hp system was changed. Yes, a lot of these maps are unranked. But they still matter. There are obviously far more unranked maps than ranked maps, and I honestly probably play more unranked maps than ranked maps anyways. A lot of songs don't have ranked maps, and there really just aren't that many ranked maps I enjoy playing. It's true you can just play it with nofail since it's unranked anyways, but this would affect people playing unranked maps in multi for fun. Honestly, it's not THAT bad of a change, but it just feels kind of.. unnecesssary.
As for finishers, 4x score seems fine to me as a way to encourage actually hitting them with two fingers. However, I don't think what happens if you hit it with one key should be changed. Even if you just imagine actually playing a taiko, if you hit it with two sticks at the same time yes it will be louder, but one still makes a sound.
EDIT: Mentioning converts, I'm fine with them not being counted as ranked but please leave the convert system to play converted maps, because some songs just don't have a taiko map, whether ranked or unranked, and some converts are fun to play.
No comment on the score system changes because I don't think I know enough to say whether or not it's balanced.
As for its use in competition, which is the goal, I think only the finisher change is a problem because it limits which maps can be selected and also affects the playstyle of the competitors, severely hindering ddkk players.
Just curious at this point but how many of you have actually sat down and seriously tried these changes? If you're at all familiar with how ScoreV1 works in a tournament environment you'd know it has a fuck ton of issues (misses having WAY more impact than anything else, finishers giving practically nothing to the point that if a map had enough hard finishers that'd force combo break they'd legit just skin them out, HR having an advantage over HD on any map with spinners, winners being insanely predictable barring shitmisses towards end of a map). ScoreV2 fixes a LOT of the issues that'd come up otherwise and if you took the time to actually test it you'd know that.
The only complaint I'm agreeing with anyone on is combo being broken by single hit on finishers, as I do feel the x4 multipler is enough of a score bonus for a proper hit to make not hitting them much more impactful than before.
A quick list of positive things this brings:
- You always know when someone achieved a perfect score for any given mod combination (1m, 1m + 60k for 1.06 mods, 1m + 120k for 1.12 mods)
- Accuracy has a higher weight
- Misses have a lower weight (combo isn't the only thing that matters with scorev2 unlike scorev1)
- Mod differentials in score are gone (due to equal score, which btw isn't achievable without the way they're considering spinners and sliders in scorev2)
- Opportunity for players to actually fail the map
- Values finishers more to make ignoring them / using a small note skin more punishing (Cause seriously small note skins are the cheesiest crap next to people who use custom resolutions to do HDHR)
Neutral / Negative things:
- Health: This is both a positive and a negative, positive was described above, negative(?) thing is because of how people use HP value in taiko, some maps become easier to pass
- Spinners: Gimmick maps get broken. Solution: Remove health loss from missed spinner. How many players seriously don't complete possible finishers anyways? (+ you lose score and would make spinners feel more like a 'bonus')
- Finishers: Finishers breaking combo on single hit is like the only seriously negative thing, this is easy to fix by allowing x4 on double hit but not dropping combo on single hit.
The only complaint I'm agreeing with anyone on is combo being broken by single hit on finishers, as I do feel the x4 multipler is enough of a score bonus for a proper hit to make not hitting them much more impactful than before.
And welcome to the reason legit nothing ever will get done with this community. You're all so opposed to anything new or different that you flip your shit the moment you hear the word "change".BrambleClaw wrote:
almost every pro player I know is complaining!!!! This isn't even ScoreV2, this is TAIKOV2!! Not everyone is complaining, so if like, three or four people aren't complaining, then it's okay to change it for the whole fucking community? How about fuck no, why not take a poll and see the true statistics about this or something like that.
I'm representing my individual opinion, not staffs. Again the community gets upset about practically anything. We can't even remove converts from rank because of people who oppose it and that's something the community is majority in favor of (as far as I'm aware).BrambleClaw wrote:
The only people who aren't complaining are staff members, but sure let's just forget about the people who PLAY the game, right, because the people who have to deal with all the staff's shit don't matter, as long as the staff and devs have it their way, doesn't matter if so much of the community is upset, right?!
A quick list of positive things this brings:
- You always know when someone achieved a perfect score for any given mod combination (1m, 1m + 60k for 1.06 mods, 1m + 120k for 1.12 mods)
- Accuracy has a higher weight
- Misses have a lower weight (combo isn't the only thing that matters with scorev2 unlike scorev1)
- Mod differentials in score are gone (due to equal score, which btw isn't achievable without the way they're considering spinners and sliders in scorev2)
- Opportunity for players to actually fail the map
- Values finishers more to make ignoring them / using a small note skin more punishing (Cause seriously small note skins are the cheesiest crap next to people who use custom resolutions to do HDHR)
Neutral / Negative things:
- Health: This is both a positive and a negative, positive was described above, negative(?) thing is because of how people use HP value in taiko, some maps become easier to pass
- Spinners: Gimmick maps get broken. Solution: Remove health loss from missed spinner. How many players seriously don't complete possible finishers anyways? (+ you lose score and would make spinners feel more like a 'bonus')
- Finishers: Finishers breaking combo on single hit is like the only seriously negative thing, this is easy to fix by allowing x4 on double hit but not dropping combo on single hit.
Okay yeah so maybe I was a bit heated at the time I was typing it, my bad. But I do still personally disagree with a lot of these changes as do a lot of other people. As 5urface said, I'm fine with a score V2, but why on earth are we changing gameplay too, that's not "score". And then what's going to happen to these thousands and millions of old scores? Are we seriously going to recalculate every last one of them? I doubt it, so what's gonna happen with those? It's not the fact that it's change necessarily, because the more I think about the score cap, the more I'm okay with it, that's not a big deal, but..it's so massive, it's almost like taiko itself is getting a complete rework. It's not going to be like the game mode I fell in love with :/ As far as what I said about staff members and stuff, as far as I can tell anyway, staff members in general are the ones who don't oppose this, but I've only known about this for like, a few hours, keep in mind. I dunno, I guess we'll see what happens, but in my personal opinion, this is a bit of a drastic change just for a score v2 that nobody really asked for. (If people really did ask for it though, feel free to correct me.)
So you're going to hate the mode "you fell in love with" because of a new scoring system ? Well that's what I call true love.BrambleClaw wrote:
Okay yeah so maybe I was a bit heated at the time I was typing it, my bad. But I do still personally disagree with a lot of these changes as do a lot of other people. As 5urface said, I'm fine with a score V2, but why on earth are we changing gameplay too, that's not "score". And then what's going to happen to these thousands and millions of old scores? Are we seriously going to recalculate every last one of them? I doubt it, so what's gonna happen with those? It's not the fact that it's change necessarily, because the more I think about the score cap, the more I'm okay with it, that's not a big deal, but..it's so massive, it's almost like taiko itself is getting a complete rework. It's not going to be like the game mode I fell in love with :/ As far as what I said about staff members and stuff, as far as I can tell anyway, staff members in general are the ones who don't oppose this, but I've only known about this for like, a few hours, keep in mind. I dunno, I guess we'll see what happens, but in my personal opinion, this is a bit of a drastic change just for a score v2 that nobody really asked for. (If people really did ask for it though, feel free to correct me.)
I mean do you guys ACTUALLY looked at what this "MASSIVE" "HUGE" "DRASTIC" modification changes on gameplay ? Well, nearly nothing. Nearly everyone hits sliders / spinners / finishers now, so giving them importance will be only a better thing. If you like taiko now, you'll like it on Score v2. If you hate it now, then you'll hate it on score v2 too.
After 2 days of Score V2 gameplay, i think the only things that should be debated are HP / Notelocking / Finishers. Because everything else is nearly the same as before, even better tbh. Well it's late here for me, so maybe I'll detail what I think later. BUT PLEASE if you didn't try score v2 on a large panel of maps, then dont even talk about it, or you're just someone being too emotionnal. Which... I'm pretty sure is the case of a lot of people complaining here.
Yeah I am perfectly fine with them changing finishers to 4x score because that way even a 50% hit is still worth more than a 100% hit regular note. So it'll still incentivise people to hit them over playing it safe. I also think the slider and spinner change are fine barring maps with ninja sliders/spinners. (Although I do worry about the 1/4 timing for songs with extremely high BPM but hopefully 30% requirement shouldn't make it a miss)
The only changes I have a major issue with are the HP change & finishers giving a miss/combobreak
Also the 1000000 point score on maps I will admit I like as it gives an idea how close to perfection you are
The only changes I have a major issue with are the HP change & finishers giving a miss/combobreak
Also the 1000000 point score on maps I will admit I like as it gives an idea how close to perfection you are
Do you have statistics on that?Arrival wrote:
I mean do you guys ACTUALLY looked at what this "MASSIVE" "HUGE" "DRASTIC" modification changes on gameplay ? Well, nearly nothing. Nearly everyone hits sliders / spinners / finishers now, so giving them importance will be only a better thing. If you like taiko now, you'll like it on Score v2. If you hate it now, then you'll hate it on score v2 too.
That's like saying none plays converts and here is n1doking...
The concerns voiced regarding drumroll- and spinnerusage in mapping and how they would play out in the new context can't just be breezed off without thinking.
I for example often like to hit drumrolls with some custom rhythm I deem fitting when I have the impression that spamming all the ticks through doesn't fit the song in that place. And based on how drumrolls used to work maybe this is even what the mapper intended?
The same goes for the selected HP value as well so you should at least take a careful look instead of saying "nah, everything's fine because literally nothing changes". That's definitely wrong because things do change even if they actually end up being fine.
As far as I understood it, the intention of Taiko score v2 is to create a scoring system that is easier to understand for the clueless viewer and as such we get the analogies with 1m score and health to the other modes.
I'm not sure if the current setup is a success because as already mentioned, the mechanic of gaining score is less transparent with the arbitrary cap and the unknown scaling of combo- and accuracyscore which is also impossible to tell apart from each other. I think the possibility of losing score does not really make a scoring system easier to understand either.
I think I can just repeat my already voiced opinion here: The Taiko v1 scoring system is fairly straightforward, easy to understand and does a good job overall. I don't see a value in changing it to some weird values with new calculations just to have the same number as in the other modes when you lose some significant bits on the way that the other scoring systems (specifically std+ctb v1) never offered.
The premise of making all elements contribute to the score meaningfully is good from a viewing perspective though. I don't think the intended mechanics for the elements are suited to make their way into regular Taiko as they are now but for a tournament - why not? There have already been quite some comments on the finisher-mechanic though but it looks like you have an eye on it already. Same for notelock.
Health is just...meh. Taiko is not balanced around it like that. I see how the healthsystem of the other modes is easier to understand for a novice but I really don't think that this small benefit outweighs the balancing of the health and potential player or team deaths. Especially considering that Loctav wants to have the pool being significantly harder than last years...while it may be interesting from a competitive perspective as mentioned by Tasha such stuff is absolutely awful to watch when it ends up happening and most importantly - the team/player that dies on a spike with the new system would have lost the map in 99% of cases anyway! The major difference is that it feels worse and less "gg".
who?Tasha wrote:
We can't even remove converts from rank because of people who oppose it
i mean if you'r gonna force scoreV2 over pple's opinions, why not force that too?? (which is actually something we want LOL)
edit : cheaters give their opinions, only on osu
↓will this be exclusive to tournaments or do you actually have plans to push this new system for the entire mode?
asking before i share my opinions on what the changes should be because i see a lot of people talking about converted maps here when i don't think they're understanding that this will only be for tournaments.
asking before i share my opinions on what the changes should be because i see a lot of people talking about converted maps here when i don't think they're understanding that this will only be for tournaments.
Nofool wrote:
who?Tasha wrote:
We can't even remove converts from rank because of people who oppose it
i mean if you'r gonna force scoreV2 over pple's opinions, why not force that too?? (which is actually something we want LOL)
Exact ... who's oppose? ...
obtain rank based in converteds EZ+DT is pathetic ... I even regret having Holy Orders with Easy
It's more of a problem with the taiko pp system than anything else. Regardless, it's best not to turn this into a convert argument thread since I don't think score v2 has anything to do with them.
I'm still not liking the idea of finishers basically turning into osu!mania. They've always been optional in osu! and every other taiko game, changing it now seems to be forcing people to play a specific way to play a map, not forcing people to play a specific way to get extra points. (this is a pretty unique thing taiko has over most other rhythm games)
Also honestly the maps forced finishers actually affect are generally maps with a lot of finishers, which you're pretty much bound to lose at in twc if you don't hit them vs someone who hits them while both fc. If you don't hit the finishers on maps like Schrodinger's Cat, Burn and Burn It Down you've already lost to be honest, also worth mentioning that all the maps mentioned are very playable with DT which I'd say makes it really challenging if you intend to hit finishers.
Also honestly the maps forced finishers actually affect are generally maps with a lot of finishers, which you're pretty much bound to lose at in twc if you don't hit them vs someone who hits them while both fc. If you don't hit the finishers on maps like Schrodinger's Cat, Burn and Burn It Down you've already lost to be honest, also worth mentioning that all the maps mentioned are very playable with DT which I'd say makes it really challenging if you intend to hit finishers.
All I know is Lno would have a totally legit #1 on marisa
Hello and let's take a look
For the second statement, it's really a good idea. This will pretend any huge score difference between x100 combos and x0-x99 combo(s) when being calculated.
For the third statement, how about if we did an unsuccesfull completion of a spinner? Will the HP drain decrease like before (ScoreV1)?
@Loctav : Please make sure that the mappools for TWC2017 won't be awkward. Unranked maps mostly awful to get a good score and had many unranked stuffs (but there are some unranked maps with a good reason to be on mappools).
i will check the other comments on this discussion first :3 and then continue this one
A miss will be given upon unsuccessful completion of a spinner.This might be a hard choice to let you know if the current ScoreV1 didn't give any miss for unsuccessful completion but if this score is being used on gimmick maps, it might be a worse idea at all.
A 300 hit will be given upon successful completion of a spinner.
Spinners award around half the HP of drum rolls for each hit and for successful completion of the spinner.
For the second statement, it's really a good idea. This will pretend any huge score difference between x100 combos and x0-x99 combo(s) when being calculated.
For the third statement, how about if we did an unsuccesfull completion of a spinner? Will the HP drain decrease like before (ScoreV1)?
@Loctav : Please make sure that the mappools for TWC2017 won't be awkward. Unranked maps mostly awful to get a good score and had many unranked stuffs (but there are some unranked maps with a good reason to be on mappools).
i will check the other comments on this discussion first :3 and then continue this one
Topic Starter
I've pushed out a new build with a few changes to address most concerns in this thread. Check out the OP (I will update this with every new update going forward) and let me know what you think of the new changes.
I will say that I like it a lot better now than before, from what I understand combo has an effect on score still but not as much as before? I'm still not entirely happy about finishers counting as a combo break in that case.
Oh well, I'm glad some middle ground has been made already.
Oh well, I'm glad some middle ground has been made already.
My English is not good, sorry.
I basically agree if this applies only in tournament.
But I disagree to give big notes possibility of misscount.
The reason for this is that depending on keyboard and pc spec, it may not be judged that pressed with both hands.
I basically agree if this applies only in tournament.
But I disagree to give big notes possibility of misscount.
The reason for this is that depending on keyboard and pc spec, it may not be judged that pressed with both hands.
@smoogipooo, it's better than before now. A lot of changed from original but about the big notes, i'm still disagree a little bit. check yu68's i would agree with his reason
i would agree with his reasondid you fix HDHR for tournament settings only? regular play needs this badly because for way too long it's been DT or nothing. i would love to see DT have something that could match it for once. the balance of scores/pp on standard with HDHR/DT is something i think taiko has needed for years. i didn't think i would live to see the day where HDHR was actually usable.
normal notes are fine.
remove anything combo break/missing related from finishers and they'll be fine. the 1 key/2 key score difference is all you need for these. there's way too many playstyle and equipment factors to make combo break/missing ever work for these. it's kinda daft to me. if it was in my hands i would make 1 key worth 2x a normal note and 2 keys worth 4x a normal note but have them both still count as a 300.
the drumrolls are amazing. i beg you to apply this change to regular play. drumroll ticks changing to 1/8 on bpm<=125 has been a pain for everyone since the dawn of time (mainly score farmers). 250bpm drumrolls on 125bpm songs is something that shouldn't happen. the rest of the changes are fine. i heavily agree on them being added to the 1,000,000 score and not counting towards combo. notelocking being removed is another godsend especially when it comes to high bpm since a lot of people including myself begin to hit them with 4 keys at that point. the missing aspect of these shouldn't be a problem for anybody now.
spinners are fine.
health is something i need to play around with a little more but as it stands there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference. it seems pretty solid if you ask me and the whole idea of "building HP" has confused viewers and new players forever.
normal notes are fine.
remove anything combo break/missing related from finishers and they'll be fine. the 1 key/2 key score difference is all you need for these. there's way too many playstyle and equipment factors to make combo break/missing ever work for these. it's kinda daft to me. if it was in my hands i would make 1 key worth 2x a normal note and 2 keys worth 4x a normal note but have them both still count as a 300.
the drumrolls are amazing. i beg you to apply this change to regular play. drumroll ticks changing to 1/8 on bpm<=125 has been a pain for everyone since the dawn of time (mainly score farmers). 250bpm drumrolls on 125bpm songs is something that shouldn't happen. the rest of the changes are fine. i heavily agree on them being added to the 1,000,000 score and not counting towards combo. notelocking being removed is another godsend especially when it comes to high bpm since a lot of people including myself begin to hit them with 4 keys at that point. the missing aspect of these shouldn't be a problem for anybody now.
spinners are fine.
health is something i need to play around with a little more but as it stands there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference. it seems pretty solid if you ask me and the whole idea of "building HP" has confused viewers and new players forever.
Given that the punishment for not hitting a finisher has now gone up from 2x to 4x, it seems rather excessive to add a minimum ~40k point deficit on top of that in the form of a combobreak. (insert something about keyboard not registering finisher hits here).
Before I will make the decision whether to change the slider tick bonus to a different value or whether to make finishers slider break or not (or have a x4 bonus, having both really seems excessively punishing on misheap), i want to do some maths with how scorev2 currently computes these notes and how scorev1 would. Please give me some time for that.
I am glad you like the changes to HDHR and fixing resolution abuse. I didn't get quite the chance yet to test this out and figure if new HR itself it broken (? I heard rumors), but yet again I urge everyone to test things directly (maybe we can get HDHR into ranked play already, I'd love so)
Everything else from this point on feels like balancing, as in how much gives what, how much does every note drain, is it feasible to keep this HP system with current map settings, etc.
for that I will need to do some excessive maths sessions and get back to you with my results, so I am asking for patience here and thank you for all the feedback so far!
Finisher hits not being registered seemed to be a long term display bug that actually resulted in registering the finisher, but not showing you that it did. This display bug seem to be fixed, too, as I can suddenly reliably hit all finishers, which was never the case before.
I am glad you like the changes to HDHR and fixing resolution abuse. I didn't get quite the chance yet to test this out and figure if new HR itself it broken (? I heard rumors), but yet again I urge everyone to test things directly (maybe we can get HDHR into ranked play already, I'd love so)
Everything else from this point on feels like balancing, as in how much gives what, how much does every note drain, is it feasible to keep this HP system with current map settings, etc.
for that I will need to do some excessive maths sessions and get back to you with my results, so I am asking for patience here and thank you for all the feedback so far!
Finisher hits not being registered seemed to be a long term display bug that actually resulted in registering the finisher, but not showing you that it did. This display bug seem to be fixed, too, as I can suddenly reliably hit all finishers, which was never the case before.
MY HD+HR MY LIFE IS COMPLETE AYAYAYAYAYAYAYA
the finisher bug is still not fixed, you can hit finishers correctly and get bonus points but depending on (I think) PC and keyboard it won't show it as a finisher hit.
There are also cases where it might show finisher hit sometimes and normal hit other times if you hit correctly and get double points, I get it to show that I hit a finisher extremely rarely, but I generally get double points all the time if I hit correctly.
There are also cases where it might show finisher hit sometimes and normal hit other times if you hit correctly and get double points, I get it to show that I hit a finisher extremely rarely, but I generally get double points all the time if I hit correctly.
For me the finisher display bug still persists. While being able to get the hit and score of the two button Finisher it displays and shows up in the stats at the end of the song as Finisher only if I hit both notes on the same frame (which at 2000 fps isn't happening often).
Finisher bug on end screen
Kiai time is still being ignored - Why is that?
Drumrolls with the removed notelock are actually fun to play and with that removed making them hitobjects is actually balanced so no issues here.
I still need more time to see if HP is balanced
The miss on Finishers needs to go though. 4x score should be enough reason to play them properly.
Finisher bug on end screen
Kiai time is still being ignored - Why is that?
Drumrolls with the removed notelock are actually fun to play and with that removed making them hitobjects is actually balanced so no issues here.
I still need more time to see if HP is balanced
The miss on Finishers needs to go though. 4x score should be enough reason to play them properly.
finishers for some reason can be 300'd in 2 different ways. they're kinda like 300/MAX notes on mania but on taiko you get awarded with the same points for both outcomes. this is how it works in scorev1 and i'm guessing that's how it works in scorev2 because i can't think of anything that would change it.
i believe it has something to do with the ms difference between your 2 key presses. if you hit them close enough to each other you get a MAX hit instead.
i believe it has something to do with the ms difference between your 2 key presses. if you hit them close enough to each other you get a MAX hit instead.
I actually investigated this a while back, within a hit window of about +-15ms you get the Finisher hit awarded without it showing as a real Finisher on screen and in stats. For me it only awards the real Finisher hit if I hit both notes on the same frame which is framerate dependant and therefore stupid. When I limited my framerate to 120 fps I could consistently hit Finishers that showed up in stats as well.Conor wrote:
finishers for some reason can be 300'd in 2 different ways. they're kinda like 300/MAX notes on mania but on taiko you get awarded with the same points for both outcomes. this is how it works in scorev1 and i'm guessing that's how it works in scorev2 because i can't think of anything that would change it.
i believe it has something to do with the ms difference between your 2 key presses. if you hit them close enough to each other you get a MAX hit instead.
Resolution scaling is having the sideeffect of altering the scroll speed on different resolutions, so I am currently trying to figure out a solution for that.
Kiai time/Go-Go time is currently not giving any benefits, but that might change. Let us figure out the bases first before we go into multipliers and other elements.
The display bug on fnishers, I dunno, it seem to be gone but now it is back, so I am a bit puzzled. But at least it is registering the input and doesn't break combo in case of it showing just the normal hit.
I am not sure about HP, I feel that right now it is not scaling properly, being way too easy as of currently.
HDHR turns out to be pretty easy once you play the fixed version, so I might consider buffing HR to be really worth to be on par with DT, because right now, HDHR is just cheap in comparison to DT. (as in, DT demands way more for the same score bonus, e.g. in terms of hit window)
Kiai time/Go-Go time is currently not giving any benefits, but that might change. Let us figure out the bases first before we go into multipliers and other elements.
The display bug on fnishers, I dunno, it seem to be gone but now it is back, so I am a bit puzzled. But at least it is registering the input and doesn't break combo in case of it showing just the normal hit.
I am not sure about HP, I feel that right now it is not scaling properly, being way too easy as of currently.
HDHR turns out to be pretty easy once you play the fixed version, so I might consider buffing HR to be really worth to be on par with DT, because right now, HDHR is just cheap in comparison to DT. (as in, DT demands way more for the same score bonus, e.g. in terms of hit window)
Is there a rounding error on per-note score?
Map composition: 873 circles (a few big notes, but they're not the question), 0 slider, 0 spinner.
Edit: I think I know what caused the +159 points:
Side note, I don't know if this is just me, but the scrolling speed was faster. Is this the inception of ratio-based scrolling speed scale?
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About big notes, have you considered that not every player has keyboards that register big notes (either perfectly or with the delay)? I mean, having misses due to having hardware that don't register big notes correctly should not be acceptable in tournament setting, as this passively tells "have a correct keyboard to play". I see no one willing to do that in the middle of a tournament, and even less if they're too young.
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Map composition: 873 circles (a few big notes, but they're not the question), 0 slider, 0 spinner.
Edit: I think I know what caused the +159 points:
Side note, I don't know if this is just me, but the scrolling speed was faster. Is this the inception of ratio-based scrolling speed scale?
———
About big notes, have you considered that not every player has keyboards that register big notes (either perfectly or with the delay)? I mean, having misses due to having hardware that don't register big notes correctly should not be acceptable in tournament setting, as this passively tells "have a correct keyboard to play". I see no one willing to do that in the middle of a tournament, and even less if they're too young.
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