Halogen- wrote:
a.) PP system is not a bit broken, it's horribly broken. This is due in part that the SR system is horribly broken. SR can be horribly very easily manipulated to produce grossly inaccurate values and PP is directly affected by it.
SR can be easily manipulated, yes, I already see that on a few very easy/hard maps relative to SR. But due to the very reason, I see that the mapping community has the tendency to not produce too easy PP maps, especially for high-SR ranked maps. For example, while Ascension to Heaven is an easy map relative to SR of 7+, it has got very high OD and HP to require enough skill to pass it and get the PP. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
Halogen- wrote:
b.) Your "very first reason" to measure a player's ability is flawed in the fact that it cannot accurately measure player ability on a per-player basis, and osu! has clearly indicated that it assumes keymodes to be separate in play (otherwise, there would not be two MWCs in the first place).
If you have no way to measure a player's ability, then how would you rank all the players? No ranking system is perfect, even relative ones. Having a quantitative measure of a player's ability in some sort (albeit inaccurate) is a strength of this game. (a bit weak argument, but many players play this game aiming for higher rank, right?)
Regarding the keymodes, each keycount has completely different skill sets to master. I know that because I comfortably play 7-8K but completely suck at 4K. But then, I would suggest to make the ranking charts for each keycount, not just saying "the measure is inaccurate".
Halogen- wrote:
c.) It's discouraging because it's encouraging people to mindlessly smash their keyboards on high-SR/low-diff proportioned maps (your traditional PP maps) and is giving them a false reward for doing well on things that are "hard." Maps that are incomprehensibly difficult yet don't yield high-SRs are going to be avoided and that alone showcases the flaw of the star rating system: people can play one map at the star rating and get an extremely good score, and then play another map at the same rating and get a terrible score. What do you think people are going to go and do right now? They're going to play all of the maps that traditionally yield high star-ratings based off of tiny spikes if they can't handle the majority of maps that proportionally increase in difficulty, and those who are extremely skilled are going to go for the maps that have the easiest patterns to spam/cheat because they can maintain accuracy/combo in the first place.
I don't think that any single map out of the currently ranked mania maps is really PP-biased in that manner. For example, I can say Everlasting Message or Achromat or Haelequin(extended) is a "relative" PP map. But most players already know that fact and already have played and got the respective PP. Now the difference in their rankings mostly come from the harder maps of similar SR, including Haryu, TLDNE Extra, sister's noise, or whatever they play.
Also, while those "traditional PP maps" seem to be easier to pass with DT, decent enough skill is actually required to score high enough with DT so that the PP value is substantially higher than the previous nomod PP. Another example, I passed Maniera Collab Another +DT (8.xx stars) with B rank, but only got 2 PP improvement on that specific map. The point is that blind keyboard bashing with DT on (the thing I think you're worried about) simply does not work.
Maybe Everlasting Message could be an exception; but still then, everyone who can handle it with DT will take the PP and cancel out in their relative rankings. That could someday be one of the "everyone's DT map" I said.
The extremely skilled players don't cheat like that; they just play everything they can. That is how the current top-level ecosystem works.
Halogen- wrote:
d.) When you go for rank, you're going for showcasing your work to the community. If the community gets the impression that this increase in PP because of the DT mod is alright, they're going to naturally get pissed off when they can't benefit from it. People bitch about things like mini-jacks into well-accented triples/quads already when they're completely fair, because it's "not comfortable".
I already saw such reactions from many players I met online. Some of them said "I quit mania" or something like that. Yes, the DT thing is a huge change and it needs some time (maybe lots of time) to settle. I just hope they return to mania at some point and get used to the things.